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fezz7834673
Premium
join:2008-08-31
Portland, OR
reply to sortofageek

Re: Bandwidth Limits - All discussion here

More and more people will be using HD VOD services, especially now that boxes such as Xbox360 and Playstation 3 have this functionality. Don't forget download-able content for games and multi-user families.

250GB may seem like more than enough overhead for some folks, but really how does that break down per day? Per hour and minute?

Comcast sells me a line that is 8MB / 1MB, and for the most part, it's pretty close to that. But they also include their "Speedbooster" technology that supposedly provides a subscriber with a quick burst of download speed up to (12MB?) though I have never felt that.

If what I calculate is pretty close, a "subscriber" (multi-family, anyone?) would constantly need to saturate their line just over 5MB ~ 6MB every minute to hit that cap in a given month.

Does that mean Comcast is over-selling their network? Not necessarily. They are selling you a line that is "able to" move that fast "whenever" you want, and I understand that. For the longest time, that "able to" and "whenever" has pretty much lend itself to be experienced as "all the time" and "anytime", and this is why some of us are now upset because it hasn't been a problem for ANYONE, at least, no one in our neighborhood (or Comcast for that matter) has complained about excessive usage and/or service quality.

Personally, I don't appreciate the fact that Comcast's arguing points usually amount to "protecting quality of service for your entire neighborhood" when nobody has ever complained at all. (Yes, I sternly requested they tell me if they had calls for service issues in my area and the representative finally confessed that no one had. It may have been a lie just to appease my repeated request but it was said.) Basically I don't appreciate it when they label my usage as abuse when it hasn't caused any problem at all.

Then the rep suggested I order a business class account, which offers faster speeds. Why on earth would I do that when
1) I do not run a business
2) I can not afford a business class account
3) How can increasing my download rate save me from a usage limit?

You may label me and my family as "internet hogs" but in our defense we are simply utilizing what we pay for and that is not wrong.



funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 recommendation

said by fezz7834673:

250GB may seem like more than enough overhead for some folks, but really how does that break down per day? Per hour and minute?
That's about 8+ GB/day... -- 2 or 4 hours of movies in HD-debatable quality
Roughly 350 MB an hour
It's about 750 Kbps... or 95 KB/s...
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 recommendation

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...



dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
Haha! Yeah, that's for sure!


funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 edit
reply to funchords

...more fun with math...

Here's how long it will take you, uploading and downloading at full speed, to reach a 250 GB cap.

Tier.... Full-speed
up/dn... hours
50/5.... 10.1
16/2.... 30.9
8/2..... 55.6
6/1..... 79.4

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...


Alcohol
Premium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dadkins

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
It's really not if you have multiple computers. 350mb an hour is peanuts in 2008. I would have been happy with it 6 years ago but not today.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

2 recommendations

reply to funchords

said by funchords:

...more fun with math...

Here's how long it will take you, uploading and downloading at full speed, to reach a 250 GB cap.

Tier.... Full-speed
up/dn... hours
50/5.... 10.1
16/2.... 30.9
8/2..... 55.6
6/1..... 79.4

Speed and volume are 2 different things. Calculations like the above are totally irrelevant to a discussion of "bytes transferred" caps.

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

fezz7834673
Premium
join:2008-08-31
Portland, OR
reply to Alcohol

said by Alcohol:

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
It's really not if you have multiple computers. 350mb an hour is peanuts in 2008. I would have been happy with it 6 years ago but not today.
Amen to that.


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
reply to Alcohol

said by Alcohol:

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
It's really not if you have multiple computers. 350mb an hour is peanuts in 2008. I would have been happy with it 6 years ago but not today.
I have three online right now... albeit I'm the only user for them.
One is a download computer for - those things, one is a media server, this one is what I spend most of the day on.

Pounding poor Comcast into the weeds with a crippling ~35GB per month.
From a "Per User" POV, I have no issue.
If there were someone on all three... 3 x 35 = OMG! 105GB?
If you and your's have a combined use that exceeds 250GB, perhaps a second account is in order.
No matter what you or I want to happen, things look to be on a downward spiral, huh?

Just be glad we didn't get Rogers-ified at 60(?)Gb per month.
I wouldn't have a problem but MANY would.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


funchords
Hello
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join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

said by funchords:

...more fun with math...

Here's how long it will take you, uploading and downloading at full speed, to reach a 250 GB cap.

Tier.... Full-speed
up/dn... hours
50/5.... 10.1
16/2.... 30.9
8/2..... 55.6
6/1..... 79.4

Speed and volume are 2 different things. Calculations like the above are totally irrelevant to a discussion of "bytes transferred" caps.

Speed is a factor of volume, so it is relevant.

Would you agree that the devout, always-on, P2P file sharing crowd ought to be aware of the above chart?

How many times have we heard of P2P users who upgrade to the 8 Mbps plan for $10 more a month so that they can transfer more. WRONG CHOICE.

They also don't know that unless they keep their upload speed below something like 80 Kbps (that's 10 KB/s) -- or perhaps up to as much as 240 Kbps (30 KB/s) on a QAM64 uplink area -- that they're taking an increasing risk that they're going to start slowing down the neighborhood?

Speed has everything to do with volume, and we'd all be better off if the users of volume simply knew these facts. No need for name calling them "bandwidth hogs," just show them the bare truth, perhaps help them to incorporate that knowledge into their habits, and we'd all be much better off!

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...


joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by funchords:

Speed is a factor of volume, so it is relevant.

Of course there's a relationship, but it makes no sense to take the 250GB and divide down to the second and declare 790Kb/sec.

I am not on 24/7. When I am on my computer, audio streaming is a fraction of this, and the number of hours of video this can transfer is more than a normal person uses.

I see the problem as this: Comcast isn't offering all the stats. If the average user is 50GB, and we're told 1 in 10,000 break 250GB in any month, it seems there's a fear that's far worse than the problem at hand.

Are we all so outraged at our 'right' to unlimited download that we don't care that it would actually be an effort to exceed the cap?
I have about 1TB worth of drives on my computer, most is video off of cameras. I can't imagine (aside from a professional handling video) the need for such transfer volume.
Joe


funchords
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Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

2 edits

said by joetaxpayer:

it makes no sense to take the 250GB and divide down to the second and declare 790Kb/sec.

I am not on 24/7.
And because you are not on 24/7, it makes no sense to you. That's cool. But there are people that are on 24/7 -- or maybe 12/7 -- and the stats are useful to them.

If you're a dedicated (24/7) p2p user buying Internet service, should you go with Cable or DSL? Should you buy the slowest tier or the fastest? If you buy a fast tier, what precautions should you take?

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

2 edits
reply to joetaxpayer

said by joetaxpayer:

I see the problem as this: Comcast isn't offering all the stats. If the average user is 50GB, and we're told 1 in 10,000 break 250GB in any month, it seems there's a fear that's far worse than the problem at hand.
We're told that the average is 2-3 GB.

said by joetaxpayer:

Are we all so outraged at our 'right' to unlimited download that we don't care that it would actually be an effort to exceed the cap?
Some are clearly taken aback that there is any limit at all. These are the people that don't realize that they were sharing the connection with others, or they didn't know what that meant, or they didn't expect Comcast to oversell as much as they did.

Others know that they use more than 250 GB a month and are struggling with this new budget.

Some don't have a clue. They check e-mail several times a day and now they're worried that they'll only be able to check it a couple of times a week.

said by joetaxpayer:

I have about 1TB worth of drives on my computer, most is video off of cameras. I can't imagine (aside from a professional handling video) the need for such transfer volume.
I've been over it once or twice when I was studying the Sandvine thing. I'm with you -- it took an effort to consume that much.

One person told his story like this -- he used 300 GB during the Olympics. He has two HD-DVRs and subscribes to a service that uses compression to 5 GB/hr. He downloaded all the Olympic video down to both of his DVRs -- 60 hours -- 150 GB each DVR -- times 2. He blew the budget in 2 weeks.

Now, being that he was downloading (and not uploading), and likely doing so through a CDN (instead of far across the network), he probably affected absolutely nobody. Since the CDN was probably used, I'm not sure if that fact helps or hurts Comcast's transit costs (I suspect it doesn't matter -- someone know?).

So, in his case, he hits the stated cap (or he would have, it starts Oct. 1). He still might be in jeopardy due to the invisible cap.

The cap used to be connected to avoiding huge impacts on others on the network, it is now about avoiding huge impacts on Comcast's bottom line -- and while Comcast does have a right to make a profit, if it's going to hedge its bets by using a cap, it simply must be disclosed.

And now it is.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 recommendation

reply to Alcohol

said by Alcohol:

said by dadkins:

said by pianotech:

Wow, 350 MB/hour....every hour...
DAMN! That a whole lot of por... "Research Videos".
It's really not if you have multiple computers. 350mb an hour is peanuts in 2008. I would have been happy with it 6 years ago but not today.
350 megabytes/hour, 24/7 is peanuts?? 8 gigs/day is peanuts?? What am I missing?


Alcohol
Premium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by pianotech:

What am I missing?
The latest technology?

Here's my computers usage on my Optimum Online connection.


--
I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock.


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

1 recommendation

And all that bandwidth is comprised of what? Just curious.



Alcohol
Premium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

720p shows and DVD-R movies.

I don't consider myself an abuser. I did not sit on my computer thinking of ways to increase my monthly bw. I merely downloaded what i wanted, and now i have to limit that because i switched from cablevision to comcast. If only ool was available in this area.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by Alcohol:

720p shows and DVD-R movies.

And the massive uploads?


Alcohol
Premium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by FFH:

said by Alcohol:

720p shows and DVD-R movies.

And the massive uploads?
Torrents.

I can stop the uploading, but i'll still need to cut back on downloading. Which is unacceptable in this day and age.
--
I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock.


joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to joetaxpayer

With regard to a meter.
I am on a Mac, and »freespace.virgin.net/jeremy.dron···ies.html
Appears to be good to track on a single computer basis, I'm sure there are others for PCs. It's a start.

For PCs - »sourceforge.net/projects/freemeter/

Joe



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
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1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Alcohol

Yet you have moved more bits in any two month period than I have moved in two years. I still haven't cleared the backlog of shows waiting to be watched!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


pandora
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join:2001-06-01
Outland
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Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to fezz7834673

said by fezz7834673:

250GB may seem like more than enough overhead for some folks, but really how does that break down per day? Per hour and minute?
I think a 310 GB cut off per month would have been better. This would permit a GB per day to a user. Anyone who needs more than that should be called by Comcast to discuss movement to a commercial account in my opinion.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."