Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization in AT&T Midwest http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21046440 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:31:58 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:31:58 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21178174 RadioDoc : Radiodoc used:

Efficient Networks 5861, symptom was no traffic and inability to reconnect/re-establish connection without power cycling. The CPE thought it had a connection when it didn't. Theory: Modem chip locked up since UI and telnet were their usual snappy selves.

Efficient Networks 4200, symptom was near-complete lockup of unit. UI was sort of accessible if you wanted to wait 5 minutes for each page load. As many as 50 spontaneous hardware reboots an hour. Traffic slowed to bits-per-second pace on WAN side. CRC errors on upstream into the hundreds of thousands. Zero on downstream.

2-Wire 1701HG, symptom was almost the same as Efficient 4200 except that traffic just stopped. Also dozens of restarts an hour, sometimes more than once per minute.

Broadxent router (forgot the model number) would just lock up.

Westell 2200, symptom was negative s/n (-125 dB) on upstream, connection would drop without modem being able to tell and reconnect, eventual total lockup.

Efficient 5660, would gallantly keep reconnecting when it detected a problem but this resulted in hundreds of reconnects a day. Eventually even it would stop trying.

Replacing the RT card stopped it all immediately. AT&T tech told me that this is a known problem with those particular cards and he was going to try to get a "new" one from the garage. Unfortunately my brother in law must have gotten my old one because his connection, fed from the same equipment, went to hell a couple of months ago. Solution: New RT card.

I am currently using the 2-Wire and have had precisely zero problems since the card was replaced. Coincidence? Nope.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21178174 Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:53:08 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169646 gdm : I don't think so. I'd be curious to see what CPE's Doc used but right now I tried two different ones.

I was in that townhouse for 19 months and it happened twice. I have heard from the techs the cards can go bad in the RT's, at least my CEV could get over heated. I can't remember exactly but I think it was within 2-3 months of each other.

I just don't think it's a vendor issue if it was we would have seen this pop up much more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169646 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:06:16 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169557 lev : Radiodoc said he'd used CPE from several different vendors as well.

So should it really be a vendor issue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169557 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:47:31 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169481 gdm : Glad to hear things are stable again. When I crashed I was using the 5100a and a zyxel 643. Not sure which one was the first vs the second.

I believe with the 643 I had more issues since it held sync a bit better then the 5100a. The 5100a I had to physically unplug it in order for it to work. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169481 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:33:30 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169334 Dennis : You'd need to have the vendor perform a FAR to ever figure out the true cause. Also without any debugs or access to the device I couldn't even hazard a guess.

well...on second though, I can hazard a guess. I guess an evil leprechaun was giving it a dirty look.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169334 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:02:51 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169194 lev : Profile has been back to a 768K up channel for some time now, DNS settings are back to where they were, and there is no overflow problem with the router's NAT tables.

100% convinced the problem was fixed with the installation of a new RT card, as Radiodoc and gdm had said.

Now, anyone have any idea why this happened? Please note, this actually caused the Netopia CPE to crash hard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169194 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:31:34 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114001 lev : I'll pass the final word on that when the profile goes back to a 768 up channel.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114001 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:37:05 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113979 Dennis : Swapping the RT card woulnd't effect the NAT table...

Still don't understand the actual problem, but at least your clients problem seems to have been resolved for now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113979 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:32:15 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113927 lev : Nope, but it turns out that's not really the problem either. I set DNS back to the old way, and it still kept going even when the table held 3200 entries.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113927 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:24:54 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113243 koma3504 : Thanks Glad the issue has been fixed.
Did it fix any of the high nat table being used??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113243 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:27:35 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113238 lev : Still no failure.

If it makes it through tomorrow afternoon, I'm going to say the problem is solved.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113238 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:26:11 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113230 koma3504 : How is that new RT card working out for you??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21113230 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:24:41 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21092861 lev : You got me, but so far, it's working.

Got a new card in yesterday.

I'm betting there's a component somewhere on the card that doesn't perform as well due to heat, or time.

Assuming that's the problem here. It was for Radiodoc and gdm, and they hardly ever agree on anything. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21092861 Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:49:34 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21086206 koma3504 : Simple if it is a Bad RT card it is BAd and is not working as it should. And would then Malform the packets Coming and going though the port on the Card. Enough Malformed packets can lock any thing up. I just hooked up My NEtopia And all hell broke loose.

The Mail Server if it sends out Allot of email all @ once could be Causeing the Card to heat up and fail.

You could Try a Simple test Un hook All the phone wires AT the NID for An hour or so And see if letting the Card cools off improves anything.

By chance have you checked your ground To the NID it is supposed to be 25 Oms or less According to the NFPA And take note if it flucuates alot as well.

It is worth checking to see even if it is good.

»www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/ne···raft.pdf

minumum of a 5 foot rod that is 1/2 inch in diamater in wet soil conditions.

800.40 b 3 minumum of 6awg for ground wire. the grounding conductor shall be run to the grounding electrode in as straight a line as practical.
you also want the least resistance.

250.56 Resistance of Rod, Pipe, and Plate Electrodes. A
single electrode consisting of a rod, pipe, or plate that does
not have a resistance to ground of 25 ohms or less shall be
augmented by one additional electrode of any of the types
specified by 250.52(A)(2) through (A)(7). Where multiple
rod, pipe, or plate electrodes are installed to meet the requirements
of this section, they shall not be less than 1.8 m
(6 ft) apart.
FPN: The paralleling efficiency of rods longer than 2.5 m
(8 ft) is improved by spacing greater than 1.8 m (6 ft).

(4) Clearance Supply service drops of 0–750 volts running
above and parallel to communications service drops
shall have a minimum separation of 300 mm (12 in.) at any
point in the span, including the point of and at their attachment
to the building, provided the nongrounded conductors
are insulated and that a clearance of not less than 1.0 m
(40 in.) is maintained between the two services at the pole.

800.25 Abandoned Cables. the accessible portion of abandoned communications cables shall be removed. [ROP 16-128, 16-129, 16-130]
--
† Koma †
If YOu Don't Think It's Possable!! It's Acually A Reality!!The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay!!
Ya Don't Know The signal Till Ya Ride It!!
Voice Break's There's Trouble!!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21086206 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:23:20 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083198 StillLearn : A dumb questions from a naive observer: why should a problem with an RT card, or anything else out of the premises, make a router hang up to where its interface cannot be accessed?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083198 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:50:15 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082991 lev : Okay, bad news.

Changing the resolv.conf last week to use 68.94.156.1
and 68.94.157.1 as nameservers didn't solve the Netopia freezing problem.

They sent out an e-mail yesterday, and it crashed within half an hour, and today within an hour. It was fine from Thursday evening through Monday, when they weren't sending.

Are we back to thinking it's the RT card at this point?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082991 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:17:00 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21068502 Dennis : The funny thing is, remember when I asked you about Bittorrent on the phone? Same kind of scenario's really, except maybe in reverse....hundreds of packets overflowing some memory buffer or triggering a bug.

You'd make a good stress tester apparently....want to beta the next Microsoft OS? :D
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21068502 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:42:31 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067973 DNSguy :
said by lev See Profile :

I still don't see why the Netopia routers don't have a setting to tell them not to give a damn about DNS.
I don't think the Netopia give a damn about DNS, it's that it has to NAT all those outbound connections the internal server is using to make DNS lookups. The same thing would happen on your D-Link if you turned off the DNS relay and ran a server behind it also running a mailing list. As long as you are using a private IP for the server, it's going to have to NAT for any type of outbound request.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067973 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 12:20:51 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067929 DNSguy : There would be no way to pass the DNS IP's from the CPE, this configuration would require a hard coding.

From reading this topic, I have the following assumptions, if any of these are wrong, let me know.
1) The Linux server you mentioned is running a nameserver, and it's BIND 9.
2) The namserver is used for caching only, and is not authoritative for any domains.
2) The resolv.conf on that box used to point to localhost, which is why it was making so many outbound DNS connections when the mail list was running.
3) You changed the resolv.conf to point to the anycast servers.

Did I get anything wrong?

To set up forwarding, look for the options section in the named.conf file.
Within the options section, add the following lines:

forward only;
forwarders { IP1; IP2; IP3; };

then either stop / start named or do an rndc reconfig

You can use the IP's of any rescursive DNS server you want, even OpenDNS. :(
I probably would not put more than 3 IP's in that list.

With this configuration, the nameserver will ask the forwarders for any information it does not have in cache instead of doing the recursive lookup itself. Recursive lookups can open up a lot of outbound ports, as you have to contact the root name servers, then the authoritative box for that domain. Let me know if this helps at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067929 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 12:13:11 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067544 lev : Shame you're limiting yourself to beer. Lot of nice 9+% abv ales out there. :)

I still don't see why the Netopia routers don't have a setting to tell them not to give a damn about DNS.

I have an inexpensive little D-Link wireless router I use inside my own LAN, that has an on/off DNS relay option that states:

"When DNS Relay is enabled, the router plays the role of a DNS server. DNS requests sent to the router are forwarded to the ISP's DNS server. This provides a constant DNS address that LAN computers can use, even when the router obtains a different DNS server address from the ISP upon re-establishing the WAN connection. You should disable DNS relay if you implement a LAN-side DNS server as a virtual server."

Why is there no similar defeat for managing DNS on the Netopias? It's a product provided specifically for multiple static IP support, where there'd be a much greater chance of people putting servers up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067544 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 10:25:20 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067478 Dennis :
said by lev See Profile :

Um...
Someone protect me?
I'll be happy to help in exchange for a six pack of beer with at least 9% abv. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067478 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 10:11:39 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067234 lev : Um...

Err...

Someone protect me?

Seriously, thanks for jumping in. That'd be a good idea, but would I have to hard code the DNS information by IP address, or would there be a way to do it with whatever information is passed to the CPE for that connection?

I rarely do more than configure zone files in BIND, so I DEFINITELY bow down to your expertise. Tell me what to change, and where, and I'll do it.

said by DNSguy See Profile :

"10 minutes after changing to the anycast (yuck) servers"

Oh I see how it is. Insult my servers, then use them to run a mailing list. What was that account name, so I can make some "performance adjustments"? :)

You can always turn up BIND on that Linux server, with a forward only config to the anycast IP. Then every look up would stay internal and the anycast server would only be used if the entry was not already cached. I imagine that would cut down the traffic quite a bit.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21067234 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 08:50:16 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21064905 DNSguy : "10 minutes after changing to the anycast (yuck) servers"

Oh I see how it is. Insult my servers, then use them to run a mailing list. What was that account name, so I can make some "performance adjustments"? :)

You can always turn up BIND on that Linux server, with a forward only config to the anycast IP. Then every look up would stay internal and the anycast server would only be used if the entry was not already cached. I imagine that would cut down the traffic quite a bit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21064905 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 19:15:17 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21061761 Dennis : Then give the router running bind a public IP address instead of a private LAN IP....that should bypass the NAT.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21061761 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:49:30 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21061545 lev : Yes, but they're pretty much dooming the router to eventual failure if there's enough DNS lookups over a short period of time from a locally hosted server configured with NAT.

There should be an option to exclude the router from tracking DNS. The computer running BIND should take care of that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21061545 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 09:58:50 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059455 Dennis : because they are sourcing from a LAN port? that's what it looks like to me anyways.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059455 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:27:08 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21058616 lev : That we will.

I'm also going to try to figure out why the NAT even needs to track DNS requests.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21058616 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:04:38 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21058198 Dennis : You haven't dropped any packets on that circuit....I've been watching all afternoon since we talked.

Guess we'll see next week?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21058198 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:52:11 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21058084 lev : Sigh,

I just noticed that the server had finished sending out the mailing list at 3:35, so nothing formal was determined... but it still looks pretty damn likely.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21058084 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:33:26 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057761 lev : I did more checking.

Most of addresses seem to be within the blocks of sites that they're mailing to. I can't stop the lookups unless I change their server to use an outside DNS.

I'll change the resolv.conf file temporarily and see if that addresses things.

----

edit: 10 minutes after changing to the anycast (yuck) servers, and the IP NAT used list number went from over 2000 (seems like it crashes somewhere around 2500) to 367.

If the router doesn't lose its connection, then at least I have a short-term solution. Still, the router SHOULD be better able to address a significant number of DNS calls from a local server without dying.

Thanks everyone for the help so far... I'll keep you posted!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057761 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:26:48 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057637 Dennis :
said by lev See Profile :

I honestly don't know why it's keeping track of so much information in its NAT table.
yes, but you won't have to know why if you can figure out how to stop that server from pumping queries out like crazy.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057637 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:07:07 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057623 lev : I'm sitting here now watching the "IP NAT used list" number climb again.

It would make some sense that, if it dies when that number gets high enough, that turning off NAT might be another possible solution. Not exactly loving the idea, but it also could stop the router from crashing. I honestly don't know why it's keeping track of so much information in its NAT table.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057623 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:05:02 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057524 drmorley : Give Postini a shot. It's basically free ($3/year) and you can offload all that garbage to Google's servers. I use it for bulk spam and it's fantastic.
--
»mediafly.com/Welcome.aspx]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057524 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:45:09 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057489 lev : I've come to that solution as well. They're not sending out another mailing until Monday, so I'll leave the DNS blacklist up until then, as well as research solutions for a way to download a blacklist file to their server on a daily/hourly basis, so that the router won't have to work so hard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057489 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:39:23 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057479 RadioDoc : I noticed that too, but figured he knows what he's doing. Seems that it really should be going to a local cache instead of hammering the outbound channel and NAT table like that.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057479 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:37:37 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057410 Dennis : What about throttling it back? There must be a parameter somewhere that controls how many lookups/requests it can perform at a given moment.

Plus the one thing that confuses me is this....why are the port 53 requests all going out to different domains? Why aren't they going to AT&T's DNS servers, or to the Netopia itself?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057410 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:25:10 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057385 RadioDoc : Well, you could turn that off and see what happens...especially considering the coincidental relationship between the increase in spam blocks and the router troubles. That kind of traffic may require a "real" router.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057385 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:19:44 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057317 lev : Yes, I've used putty and the command line, with a show-all command. It's the best way to get into the router from remote. I shell into the server and then telnet into the router from the LAN.

For what it's worth, to be more specific, many of those DNS lookups seem to be coming from the following line in the sendmail.mc file:

Obviously, invoking the DNSBL lookup is important, as witnessed below. It blocked 34 nefarious incoming spam attempts in 2 1/2 minutes, which on a weekly basis, works out to 137,000 avoided e-mail connections. This too, could be the problem, as the server was only blocking about 30,000 attempts a few months ago.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057317 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:08:13 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057045 koma3504 : Yes I would say that the Nat table is is over loading with all those Dns Lookups. That is the exact same behavier I have seen with every Netopia I have had.

The only way I have found to fix that was to put up a modem in bridge mode and let a linux box/Smoothwall IpCop etc... do the PPPoE

Those stats your'e getting on your netopia Are we to assumme that you get those by Telneting in to the Netopia.

If not Have you tried telneting in to the netopia using something like putty etc... ??
--
† Koma †
If YOu Don't Think It's Possable!! It's Acually A Reality!!The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay!!
Ya Don't Know The signal Till Ya Ride It!!
Voice Break's There's Trouble!!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057045 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:19:27 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057012 lev : Apache's running, but it's only in support of mailman.

Thanks for the reminder... I closed TCP 80 and 443 ports on the firewall.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057012 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:12:44 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057006 reddog6102 : I was thinking the power output on the upstream looked very high myself being so close to the dslam.What i would look at is the house cable from the dslam to the router.Is it old,bridgetap,various t1's working close by.As far as the ip route you posted,thats beyond my paygrade/scope of work!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21057006 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:11:11 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056992 Dennis : It also seems to be running a webserver....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056992 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:08:42 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056965 lev : Yes, it's running Linux, and no, it's not trying to be a root server. It's just sending out to a mailing list, and doing its own lookups for each site.

Also, it's rejecting connections from incoming mail servers that are open relays at a pretty startling rate... approximately 110,000 blocked connection attempts per week.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056965 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:01:28 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056915 Dennis : wow....is that server on 192.168.254.19 running unix/bind and trying to be a DNS root server or something crazy?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056915 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 13:53:43 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056869 lev : I'm going to paste part of the "all-info" diagnostic of the modem in.

192.168.254.019 is the server that's sending out to a mailman mailing list.

Does anyone think the Netopia's table is overloading? There's a lot of calls for DNS on UDP 53.

The Netopia is fine on memory, as you can see first.
--------
Memory status:
Heap: total bytes 7555072 (free 4663176, allocated 2891896)
System Packet Buffers: total 500 free 468 min 346
Image usage: text 3922636, data 726404, bss 636812

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056869 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 13:44:21 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056516 lev : It's been a few hours since the last restart, and there's still only 1 upchannel CRC error.

When the router crashes, I can't get into it anymore to find the value. This ain't looking easy to solve. I'll have to take them to Covad or a T1 if this doesn't improve soon.


---

Update:

The router crashed completely about 2 minutes after I posted the above. It was not pingable on the LAN, but it did know when a cable had been removed from the ethernet port.

The DSL light went out when I unplugged the phone line, but from experience in the past, it does not establish a PPPoE session when reconnected.

I do think the upstream output power on the Netopia is higher than it used to be in this location (notice it's got a negative value for the downstream power).
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056516 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 12:31:59 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056283 reddog6102 : This sounds like a Catina/Cienna dslam(correct?).If so the new cienna cards have pinwheels on them that need to coincide with the cable pair of the shelf.Does the sync lite go out when problem occurs?Has the DLC crew checked out the common card for the shelf?Is it OC3 fed or t1 fed?Probably fiber fed if they offer 6meg.My gut tells me its the netopia router,they are very sensitive to junk trafic and will shut down/lock up.Also maybe a t1 working in the same binder group of house cable.This will suck out a certain frequency(forget wich one).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056283 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 11:40:33 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056271 RadioDoc : While you're waiting, keep an eye on the upstream CRC errors. If they start piling up, with no corresponding increase in downstream CRC errors, you may have exactly the problem I had...which was definitely at the RT.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056271 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 11:38:02 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21055411 lev : Okay, the new profile didn't fix it.

I'm going in today with another router, but also asking David to see about getting a completely new card installed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21055411 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 08:37:36 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21052480 koma3504 : That is some very usefull information there. Thanks for posting.

That Information would make a very good site faq.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21052480 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:58:47 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21052198 gdm : I had this problem when I was in Bartlett over 3 years ago. My card went bad twice, the first time it was just DSL. The 2nd time it was POTS. The tech that came out the 2nd time said the same thing as yours Doc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21052198 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:59:43 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21052181 RadioDoc : He tried three different ADLU cards before he got one which actually worked. Evidently there was/is some kind or austerity program going on and they just keep swapping cards without knowing the exact functional status of any of them. He finally managed to pry a "new" card out of the garage and installed it. No problems at all since.

Now, my brother in law, who is on the same RT, is having all sorts of problems with both DSL and POTS. The wiring in his building has been eliminated as the cause, and three tech visits later his DSL is down again.

I suspect most of the cards are in fact bad.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21052181 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:56:25 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21052034 lev : reddog, you missed some information in the first post.

The customer has elite-S service and was syncing at 6016/768, and tests about 130 feet away from the RT, for the simple reason the RT is in the basement, and they're on the 9th floor. Note the attenuation of 3.0 and 1.5. They are WELL below the capacity threshold.

This problem started 6 weeks ago, and the 3346 was operating from July 2005 until then. The problem persists with a new 3347, and only happens during times when the upchannel is being stressed by their server sending out a large mailman-based mailing list.

I asked David See Profile to set them to a profile that only had a 608 up channel, and this was the best he could find that would do that.

Radiodoc, I had your situation in mind when I was working with the tech. He moved the pair to a completely different card. Perhaps it was another bad card as well, but it's awfully hard to prove.

My road to proof of the problem is to first see if the lower up sync makes the problem go away.

If it does, I'll complain about that, and see if it coincides with an update to the RTs.

If it doesn't, I'll swap in a 2Wire OfficePortal 1800.

If that fails, then I can point back at the RT card. But no matter what, I'm collecting all data from other people in a similar situation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21052034 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:30:13 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21051500 RadioDoc : Had multiple occasions of multiple different units (Westell, 2-Wire, Efficient/Siemens of various eras) do the same damn thing at home awhile back. Turned out to be a bad RT card. Since that's been replaced with a new one (and actually replaced, not just swapped with an equally bad card) I have had zero issues.

Coincidence? Nope. Not according to the last tech who was out and got it fixed for good.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21051500 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:55:31 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21050977 reddog6102 : I am a legacy bellsouth tech but we carry netopia business routers as well and this seems interesting.A couple questions for ya:.what type of problems are you having,what type of dslam?We have had our share of firmware woes with this router over the years.our latest problem was a wholesale mode (picture of house on interface page)that wouldnt open multiple static ip's to be public.Some other problems with other firmware was no 2+ platform compatability and random loss of sync.our current model is 3347-02-1006L/f/w761r9.What speed are you paying for?Your footprint looks like a 6meg profile according to your noise margin amoung other thing but you arent syncing at full bandwidth.you are at fast path wich means no noise profile and 4512kbs at 16db downstream doesnt seem right.For one you have to be close 99-100%capacity(cant tell from that footprint)and that can cause surfing issues.Most alcatel dslams sync at 8128k max.Why you are syncing at 4500k with a noise margin of 16 is strange to me.your noise margin should be lower.I'll wait for other techs to chime in on this one.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21050977 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:19:09 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21050718 lev : I can try it, but I'm going to wait a bit, since it just moved to a maintenance profile of 4512 down and 608 up. I'd like to see if it fails at this speed with the current CPE before changing anything.

Here are the stats after 16 hours.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21050718 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 12:33:41 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21050550 Dennis : Can you try replacing with a 2wire or something? I just have a hard time believing that the RT comes into play...when the symptoms seem more like your overwhelming the memory buffers/routing table in the CPE.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21050550 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 12:02:35 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21046440 lev : 7.5.1 R10-DP42 and its predecessor on the 3346, and 7.6.1 R9 on the 3347. These drops started about 6 weeks ago.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21046440 Tue, 02 Sep 2008 16:47:01 EDT Re: Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21046159 koma3504 : Are you talking aout this version 7.5.1 R10-DP42

As i know i have had that happen with my Netopia Running
nta751r10_dp42-2.bin

And I am on a Rt as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21046159 Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:56:17 EDT Netopia 33xx routers and high upchannel utilization http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21045875 lev : I've got a client on an Elite-S package that has a mailserver on a hosted IP. For several years, they've been running without a problem.

Starting about 6 weeks ago, when they send out to their mailing list, and the upchannel is pegged for a few hours sending to lots of sites, their Netopia 3346 started to freeze. It wouldn't respond locally, and even the DSL status lights wouldn't update... even if the phone cord was removed. It took a power reset to bring the router back.

So they replaced it with a 3347 Netopia unit, with wireless.

The problem remains. Only after a few hours of high up bandwidth, will this be a problem.

They're on a remote terminal, and I'm exploring the possibility that a change to the firmware in the RT might have brought out a problem that was lying latent in the Netopias. AT&T has already changed the pairs and cut them over to a different card in the RT, and the problem's still there. David's working on lowering the upchannel to 608 to see if that makes this lockup less likely to occur.

I'm just looking for anyone else who's seen this behavior with a current firmware version of either the Netopia 3346N-002 or the 3347-02-1006. Thanks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21045875 Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:18:41 EDT