said by Mele20 Huh? What limits on water, electric, phone and gas?[/BQUOTE :

Well, you pay per used unit. In essence, there is a "cap" of 0, and you pay for everything you use above that. You pay about a $12 or so (depending on the state) base rate for electricity, without having used anything. Similar with gas and water.

One could argue that a internet connection should be reduces to $5 for lite, $10 for standard, and $15 for premium, with NO data allowance whatsover - maybe a cap of 1 Gb to accomodate for spam and other unwanted data - and charge $1 for each downloaded Gb.

If you are a low bandwidth user, you'll pay $20-25. If you download no more then 40 Gb or so, you price would be about the same as it is now, $45 to $55.

I do not believe this is the RIGHT solution, but it is one that could be argued comparing to regular utilities.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21075485 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:33:55 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074794 Mele20 : Maybe forget about the internet? It is getting sort of boring. If low caps are set by all ISPs, a lot of folks might just decide to move on to something else. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074794 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 07:34:16 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074708 hobgoblin :

said by JusticeDun :

I have noticed that The Drudge Report as been posting a lot of links lately to stories about ISP Capping. Maybe with enough press we can put this capping thing out before it takes off. I know I do my part spreading the word to people who may not be informed about the issue. If Time Warner imposes ANY type of cap in my area, then they will not only lose my residential service, but also, service at my place of Business.

and what will you do when all ISP's do this?

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074708 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:42:47 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073701 JusticeDun : I have noticed that The Drudge Report as been posting a lot of links lately to stories about ISP Capping. Maybe with enough press we can put this capping thing out before it takes off. I know I do my part spreading the word to people who may not be informed about the issue. If Time Warner imposes ANY type of cap in my area, then they will not only lose my residential service, but also, service at my place of Business. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073701 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:25:23 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070533 anon : See this would really become a problem for me as I have to share my internet connection with my roommates in my apartment.
Then again also, in my personal opinion no cap is a good cap.
And since internet is bundled with my rent (as well as analog 70-80 channel cable tv), I can't really switch to something else, id just be charged an overage as if it was an actual utility/natural resource (which it isn't)

Verizon FIOS I don't could come to this area (Charlotte, NC), but maybe AT&T U-verse can as they are who took over all of Bellsouth's stuff. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070533 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:32:25 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069759 Pizz : I'll start treating my internet connection as a ultilty, when my ISP starts treating me under net-neurality.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069759 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:37:44 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21068880 antdude :

said by Xizer :

said by Lookn4me40 :

if TWC does in fact emplace bandwith restrictions, will that be the death of online games like World of Warcraft for example??? What about usage of Vonage??? This stinks!

Yes. You will eat up your allotted bandwidth very fast if you do anything more intensive than browsing mainly text, non-image heavy websites.

I recommend switching to DSL if Time Warner places caps on your service.

Too bad DSL is 20K ft. from CO for me. :( No FIOS either since I am Verizon as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21068880 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:51:41 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21062220 Phil : What will really be affected is me watching movies on demand (via Netflix) as well as other video streaming that eats up a lot of bandwidth. One of the primary reasons cable companies want to impose caps is they see their bread and butter (cable television) being eroded away by online services.

Of course people who file share or download copyrighted material (e.g., movies, music, etc.) will also be affected.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21062220 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:09:59 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21061275 kingdome74 : Let's see - Windstream's DSLAM is about 15 feet from my door, I've used Usadatanet's VoIP for years having just recently switched to RR's, and I could care less about digital TV so put a cap on me and bye bye RR without a second thought.
--
"And guess what this liberal would be all about. This liberal will be about socializing … uh, um. … would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies. …" - Maxine Waters, D-Cal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21061275 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:55:22 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060848 Xizer :

said by Lookn4me40 :

if TWC does in fact emplace bandwith restrictions, will that be the death of online games like World of Warcraft for example??? What about usage of Vonage??? This stinks!

Yes. You will eat up your allotted bandwidth very fast if you do anything more intensive than browsing mainly text, non-image heavy websites.

I recommend switching to DSL if Time Warner places caps on your service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060848 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:22:25 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060748 Mele20 :

said by MacLeech :

Do you mean you don't have a flat-rate baseline usage with overages billed at an additional rate for water, electric, phone, or gas services? Are any of your standard services "unlimited" for a flat rate? Are any "unlimited" services you have standard rate fees or are they a special tier above standard or normal services?

Do you practice any sort of conservation or self-imposed limitations on any of your utility use? Are any of your appliances that use the utilities "Enery Star" rated or "High Efficiency"?

...or are you just using all of your electric, water, phone, and gas services like they're unlimited with no penalties for excessive usage?

Like approximately 53-55% of the population of Hawaii I rent (in my case a condo). Utilities are included in the rent. The monthly fee charged each unit's owner for utilities/trash pick up/yard/pool work, etc. is fixed and based on the size of the unit. The fixed fee may change every few years and, of course, that is usually passed on the renter. So, yes, I try to not use utilities excessively although there is no way to tell how much my unit used in electricity, for instance, over all the other units in this building same size, larger or smaller. So, there is not a large incentive to conserve unless everyone in the building is doing the same. Our building is the first one in this town to go with the horrible florescent bulbs for all exterior walkways, fire escapes, lobby, parking lot, etc. and they have strongly encouraged tenants to replace incandescent bulbs inside their units. The problem there is the expense and renters may not be around to get their 8 years out the bulb so they don't install these. Some owner occupants do though. Plus, most of us have a lot of lights that are three way and no florescent three way bulbs are sold here, plus, I would expect them to be skyrocket high in cost ....all are extremely expensive. So, I don't plan to install any until the end of 2012. I would have to purchase all of them in the extra expensive extra small sizes for my fixtures. This building is 36 years old and besides the unit's fixtures my lamps are from the mid nineties and would need the tiny bulbs and they are three way which are not available here anyway.

I have gas stove and gas clothes washer and dryer and I have never heard of a limit on the use of propane! Water is unlimited and with the recurring plumbing problems in this building it had better be...it takes me 6 minutes to get hot water with all three taps running full force and that is every time I need hot water in the evening or late at night and sometimes during the day too...even 5 minutes after I let it run like that...it is cold again. Every time the water has to be turned off for the entire building for some unit for plumbing repairs this happens when it is turned back on and it is usually many months before it is fixed and then it happens again. Lest you think this is a crappy place...it is currently considered the best building in Hilo ....everyone wants to live/buy here.

As for the phone of course it is unlimited use! Long distance to other islands or the Mainland is a separate charge and that is based, as historically it has always been, on how many minutes you use and whether you have a long distance plan. But calls anywhere on this island are unlimited. I pay for Oceanic cable TV (basic Plus...45-50 channels) as part of my rent but I haven't had a TV since 2001 so it could be said that my conservation is that I don't waste electricity 4.5 hours (average American daily watching time) a day on the TV.

When my mother still had her home, just three years ago, there was no limit on utility use. Now she lives in an assisted care village and her utilities are a part of the rent and she can use whatever she needs and no one has mentioned rationing any utility. She has central heat and air conditioning. I have neither of those. So who is using too much utilities? Not me. Granted, heating is essential on the Mainland but central air and central heat...no, of course not. She keeps it freezing cold in the summer. I'm used to sleeping at a temp of 80-83. She wants to sleep at 65 degrees. The stores there freeze you to death with the air conditioning. Our stores keep the interiors at 77-80 (except for grocery stores).

When I got RR in June 2001, it was billed as unlimited ALWAYS ON, ALWAYS AVAILABLE and that was its main selling point. I paid my RR bill at Oceanic's office on Tuesday and the lady in front of me was asking about Oceanic's current special for RR Lite. (Oceanic just recently began to advertise RR Lite). The ad evidently is $14.95 for one month and then it goes to $19.95. She wanted it for $14.95 always. She said it wasn't that fast and why was it $19.95 when standard RR, which is a great deal faster, is only $29.95 for the first year. The CR said that the $19.95 was a big improvement over dial up which is usually around the same price because RR Lite was always on and it was all she could eat in bandwidth .

That is true because Oceanic just very recently posted the new TOS for Hawaii and there is NO mention of any possibility of bandwidth caps. The bandwidth capping is in the TOS/Subscriber Agreement for ALL other franchises. So, I don't know if that means Oceanic is not going to impose a bandwidth cap even if other franchises do, or if it means whoever wrote our TOS (which differs substantially in several ways from the one for everyone else - even differs from the California one) made a mess of it and another one will replace it soon or what it means. I'm pissed because Oceanic had been directing us the universal TOS/Subscriber Agreement for all franchises except California and now with our own they have removed the clause that allows the user to buy their own modem. For awhile there we could buy our own but now we again cannot.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060748 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 02:40:39 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060398 chippe01 : Not a good analogy because Water, electric, phone and gas have always been a pay-per-use service. They are not sold as unlimited flat-rate services.

I can leave my TV on 24/7 and not pay a penny more (provided I do not order pay-per-view events). Internet is bundled with the cable and was always advertised as "always on", which one could presume unlimited. They never sold it as a pay per usage service in the past. I expect to be able to use it when and how often I want to as that is what I agreed to - just like my television service.

I would imagine there are millions more TWC customers on TV only service, those television lines must use up a heck of a lot more bandwidth than the internet services.

If they move to a pay-per-use service, I will definitely drop them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060398 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:30:13 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060303 MacLeech :

said by Mele20 :

Huh? What limits on water, electric, phone and gas? There are none here unless self imposed such as almost no one here has air conditioning in their home. Is that what you mean?

Do you mean you don't have a flat-rate baseline usage with overages billed at an additional rate for water, electric, phone, or gas services? Are any of your standard services "unlimited" for a flat rate? Are any "unlimited" services you have standard rate fees or are they a special tier above standard or normal services?

Do you practice any sort of conservation or self-imposed limitations on any of your utility use? Are any of your appliances that use the utilites "Enery Star" rated or "High Efficiency"?

...or are you just using all of your electric, water, phone, and gas services like they're unlimited with no penalties for excessive usage?

Many people impose their own limits or make extra effort not to "waste" resources when they know it will cost them extra. If it becomes truly extravagant usage, most utilities will contact you for "extra" conditions or billing arrangements.

Many people claim broadband should be a utility and a government regulated one at that... isn't usage billing a common feature of many of those sorts of service?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060303 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:05:40 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060185 Mele20 :

said by MacLeech :

Answer those questions and then we can talk about if enacting bandwidth limits will kill gaming and Vonage.

More then likely it won't, just as limits on water, electric, phone, and gas usage haven't killed their use.

Huh? What limits on water, electric, phone and gas? There are none here unless self imposed such as almost no one here has air conditioning in their home. Is that what you mean?

I think that I am a low bandwidth user. I had not had BitTorrent turned on for three months. Then at the end of August I downloaded something using BT and I left BT running after the download (which only took a few minutes) so that I would seed for awhile. I let BT run for only two days and that put my August bandwidth usage to almost 40GB most of it being those two days of upload for BT seeding. A 250GB limit like Comcast has announced would be way more than I would ever need with only using BT very occasionally. But to limit my standard RR to 20GB a month or maybe the 5GB that is in the Texas trial is outrageous. All that does is completely kill P2P as just two days of seeding one popular torrent per month raises the usage way above the limits that we are hearing TW will use.

edit: The limits are in the TW Residential Subscriber Agreement for all franchises except Hawaii. We have our own Agreement and nothing mentioned about bandwidth limits.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21060185 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 23:37:53 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059941 Baseline : The cap sizes are yet to be seen, but it's doubtful you'd be able to hit a cap playing WoW 24/7 unless they give the base package a 5GB cap or something stupid.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059941 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:54:40 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059392 MacLeech : I didn't say online games would not use bandwidth.

1. How much bandwidth does the average user "consume" per month?
2. How additional bandwidth is used by the games and Vonage?
3. What are the bandwidth limits imposed by the ISPs?
4. What happens when users exceed the limits?
5. Can users afford the penalties for excessive use?
6. What percentage of users are affected by the penalties?
7. How many of the penalized users are gamers and Vonage users?

Answer those questions and then we can talk about if enacting bandwidth limits will kill gaming and Vonage.

More then likely it won't, just as limits on water, electric, phone, and gas usage haven't killed their use.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059392 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:16:38 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059030 Lookn4me40 : It might be a noob question, but why wouldn't an online games use bandwith, ?? It is constantly uploading/downloading....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059030 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:06:45 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059022 MacLeech :

said by Lookn4me40 :

won't playing online games and VOIP use up bandwith quickly though??

Not anymore than it currently does.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059022 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:05:25 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059009 Lookn4me40 : won't playing online games and VOIP use up bandwith quickly though??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059009 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:02:39 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059004 MacLeech : No.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21059004 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:01:33 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21058977 Lookn4me40 : if TWC does in fact emplace bandwith restrictions, will that be the death of online games like World of Warcraft for example??? What about usage of Vonage??? This stinks!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21058977 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:56:38 EDT