  DrModem Premium join:2006-10-19 USA | reply to Rothan Tik Re: Lock your
No, don't, because it will save your hide in a RIAA case  |
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  GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | said by DrModem :No, don't, because it will save your hide in a RIAA case No, it won't. Because it will cost you a lot of money to defend yourself in court. And it will still be cheaper to settle with the RIAA then it will be to go to court.
And if I was the RIAA, anyone who uses such a defense would be turned in to their ISP as breaking TOS and sharing their connection. The malefactor could not only lose their money defending themselves, they could lose their broadband connection as well. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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 lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21 Everett, WA | There's a difference between sharing your connection and having it stolen. Are you responsible if someone steals your car then runs over five people? |
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  a333 A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12 Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to GOLFnSUN Uh-huh... sharing your connection is LEGAL, unless you're using some sort of satellite/WISP that specifically bans it in their TOS. Else, WiFi routers would be illegal, ya know. (Although people really should start locking down their WiFi, since open WiFi invites a LOT more than MAFIAA lawsuits; DDoS attacks for instance...) Now, if you use your connection as wholesale bandwidth and resell it, then I'd agree, you might be subject to loss of your connection, since you most likely aren't supposed to sell your broadband unless it's specifically marked as wholesale... |
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  anonanonanonanon
@rr.com | reply to lordofwhee Yes, actually. You will be liable because it was your car... |
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  GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to a333 said by a333 :Uh-huh... sharing your connection is LEGAL, It is against the TOS for Comcast to share your connection with those not part of the contracted premises - even with WiFi. And I remember reading that TWC has similar wording.
»www.comcast.net/terms/use/#prohibited
Network and usage restrictions ....make available to anyone outside the Premises the ability to use the Service (for example, though wi-fi or other methods of networking), in whole or in part, directly or indirectly.
connect the Comcast Equipment to any computer outside of your Premises;
What obligations do I have under this Policy? ...you are also responsible for any use or misuse of the Service that violates this Policy, even if it was committed by a friend, family member, or guest with access to your Service account. Therefore, you must take steps to ensure that others do not use your account to gain unauthorized access to the Service by, for example, strictly maintaining the confidentiality of your Service login and password. In all cases, you are solely responsible for the security of any device you choose to connect to the Service, including any data stored or shared on that device.
It is also your responsibility to secure the Customer Equipment and any other Premises equipment or programs not provided by Comcast that connect to the Service from external threats such as viruses, spam, bot nets, and other methods of intrusion.
-- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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  ReVeLaTeD Premium join:2001-11-10 San Diego, CA
| reply to anonanonanonanon said by anonanonanonanon :
Yes, actually. You will be liable because it was your car... That's FUD.
If someone steals my car and I'm aware of the theft, and I report it promptly, and the thief runs over people, I am not to blame.
In the Wi-Fi stealing deal, it's not easy to detect when someone's stealing your signal. Thus it's not easy to prove that I did or did not know someone else used my signal. Unless you can prove that I knowingly and willfully left it unlocked for that purpose - which also isn't easy to prove. But I bet I can find quite a few specialists who will substantiate how easy it is to crack Wi-Fi security in any case. |
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  snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22 Wheaton, IL clubs:
| reply to GOLFnSUN And what happens when you get turned over to the company that you are paying for service? A slap on the wrist? Account termination? I highly doubt the latter because unlike the RIAA who likes screwing its customers, ISPs are a bit more determined (note I say a bit) to keep customers who are paying for their service. Even people who are being scolded by Comcast for breaking the now visible (previously invisble) are not terminated... at least not immediately.
So a slap on the wrist from an ISP is, personally, more favorable that the RIAA's borderline extortion »RIAA 'Settlement-o-matic' Site Taunts You -- The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. |
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  snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22 Wheaton, IL clubs:
| reply to ReVeLaTeD said by ReVeLaTeD :said by anonanonanonanon :
Yes, actually. You will be liable because it was your car... That's FUD. But I bet I can find quite a few specialists who will substantiate how easy it is to crack Wi-Fi security in any case. I'll vouch for you on that one. I can actively decrypt a WEP enabled network in about 20 minutes and gain full unencrypted access. Passively with no clients in about 3-4 days. This is why I always encourage people to use WPA with a strong password. -- The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. |
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 EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA
| reply to GOLFnSUN The Verizon Online TOS (DSL and FiOS) has the following clauses as well:
AUTHORIZED USER, ACCOUNT USE, AND RESPONSIBILITIES. ... 2. You are responsible for all use of your Service and account, whether by you or someone using your account with or without your permission, including all secondary or sub-accounts associated with your primary account, and to pay for all activity associated with your account. You agree to comply with all applicable laws, regulations and rules regarding your use of the Service and to only use the Service within the United States (unless otherwise permitted by this Agreement). |
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 hrickpa
join:2001-06-07 Reading, PA
·Covad Communications
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to a333 I had that problem. I had an older wireless router that supported WEP only. The key got cracked, my neighbors was using my connection to get codes for their satellite TV boxes and download MP3s. Now there is software out there that can detect unauthorized users and gather information about the unauthorized computer. the unauthorized computers that was on my network here are some of the info I gathered on the first computer the OS is windows 2000 using a DLink wireless card according to the MAC address the user name was: User
the second computer running win xp sp1 Toshiba According to the MAC address
the way i found about the unauthorized computers it when i beta tested a program called network magic by Port Magic now there a programs called Nmap - Zenmap for windows
I have replace the older router with a newer router that supports WPA and WPA2 i am currently using WPA2-AES |
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  Pv8man999
@wideopenwest.com
thumbs down from: GOLFnSUN 
| reply to snipper_cr Sorry snipper-cr
WPA and WPA2 have been almost as easy to crack as WEP. All you need is just one handshake packet (person needs to turn PC on, or connect once)
I don't think there is a such thing as a secure wireless connection. |
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  GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by Pv8man999 :
Sorry snipper-cr
WPA and WPA2 have been almost as easy to crack as WEP. All you need is just one handshake packet (person needs to turn PC on, or connect once)
I don't think there is a such thing as a secure wireless connection. WRONG!! -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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  Rothan Tik Destroyer of worlds Premium join:2000-11-07 Danvers, MA
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to ReVeLaTeD said by ReVeLaTeD :said by anonanonanonanon :
Yes, actually. You will be liable because it was your car... That's FUD. If someone steals my car and I'm aware of the theft, and I report it promptly, and the thief runs over people, I am not to blame. In the Wi-Fi stealing deal, it's not easy to detect when someone's stealing your signal. Thus it's not easy to prove that I did or did not know someone else used my signal. Unless you can prove that I knowingly and willfully left it unlocked for that purpose - which also isn't easy to prove. But I bet I can find quite a few specialists who will substantiate how easy it is to crack Wi-Fi security in any case. I think one would notice when their connection starts crawling because they've become a seeder for other downloads. That's asking too much sense from people though... |
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  woody7 Premium join:2000-10-13 Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to lordofwhee depends on what state you live in  -- BlooMe |
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  ReVeLaTeD Premium join:2001-11-10 San Diego, CA
| reply to Rothan Tik said by Rothan Tik :said by ReVeLaTeD :said by anonanonanonanon :
Yes, actually. You will be liable because it was your car... That's FUD. If someone steals my car and I'm aware of the theft, and I report it promptly, and the thief runs over people, I am not to blame. In the Wi-Fi stealing deal, it's not easy to detect when someone's stealing your signal. Thus it's not easy to prove that I did or did not know someone else used my signal. Unless you can prove that I knowingly and willfully left it unlocked for that purpose - which also isn't easy to prove. But I bet I can find quite a few specialists who will substantiate how easy it is to crack Wi-Fi security in any case. I think one would notice when their connection starts crawling because they've become a seeder for other downloads. That's asking too much sense from people though... Your Honor, Time Warner has had so many issues with the network, especially on Sunday evenings when the connection slows to a crawl. You see, because I'm in an apartment complex, the cable internet is split amongst everyone here, and the node gets oversaturated when everyone is on it simultaneously. Slowdowns are quite common. My attorney has about 40 tenants who will testify to that.
See how easy that was? Connection degradation is so common it can't be used as an excuse. Unless you're on FioS...which I am not. |
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 stevephl
join:2000-11-27 Colorado Springs, CO | reply to DrModem Simple answer is not to steal other peoples work then you will not need to rely on "someone stole my wireless single" defense. |
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  Noah Vail Premium join:2004-12-10 Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to GOLFnSUN said by GOLFnSUN :WRONG!! Would you be so kind as to provide evidence of a secure (uncrackable) wireless connection?
I'll just sit here and listen to your cricket farm while you rush right out and get that evidence.
NV -- Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. |
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 moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to EPS So if a car company says in its sales agreement, you are responsible for what happens when your car is stolen, would you own a car?
Of how about if someone breaks your WiFi connection and downloads child porn, are you willing to go to jail for it?
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  snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22 Wheaton, IL clubs:
| reply to Noah Vail Well as far as WPA goes, its "uncrackable" if you have a strong password. As PV9man99 said, yes, you CAN technically "hack" a WPA network but in reality all it is is just a brute force attack on the 4 way handshake.
And you do not even have to wait for them to turn on/off their computer. Just do a DeAuthenticate attack (assuming your own network) and that will force it to reconnect. Capture the 4 way WPA handshake and then set it to brute force.
If you password is something like "soda" which is commonly found in a dictionary, its probably going to be breakable. But if it is something strong like "pv8man999" then unless you brute force THAT (which would take years with a million computers) you can reasonably assume its safe.
In reality you are not really attacking WPA as you do WEP. You really are getting down to either TKIP or AES and all you can do is brute force it. -- The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. |
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