[XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD in Microsoft Help

[XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD in Microsoft Help http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21069286 en Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:34:19 EDT Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:34:19 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102169 OZO : Talking about defragmentation process - I hope you guys know that if you don't do a proper customization and run your lovely defrag program on a regular basis - you may collide two defragmentation strategies. One is enforced by your defrag program, and there is another one - executed by native WXP defragmenter. Why do you think your defrag program always has a job to do (additionally to just defragging few fragmented files).

Let's, for example, take a look at JkDefrag. By default it executes "analyze, defragment, and fast optimization" strategy (#3). It's a good strategy - it places files accordingly to different categories in different HD places making gaps between those areas. Nice! Until you left computer for a while and computer starts performing its maintenance tasks, and one of those is running native defrag. And native defrag has a different vision on how files should be arranged on the disk. It moves files accordingly to its strategy, effectively creating a job for new JkDefrag run...

As a result - you may waste your time, computer's time, and trash your HD without any need to do so. So, be careful. Do not allow it to happen. Change your defrag strategy to comply to native defrag strategy or vice versa. But do not rely on default settings.
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102169 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:45:54 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102151 dlconkey : No problem there... the issues is using multiple partitions on your two drives, for eash OS, to take advantage of the CAV aspects of each drive. Outside edge = fastest, inner = slowest. Partitions allocate from ouside to inside so fust use the partitions in the order allocated.
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102151 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:39:14 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102127 dlconkey : Should we tell him that XP will likely NOT transfer to a new PC without reauthorization??? Nah ;) He'll figure out how to call Redmond wondering "Huhhh, what happened..."
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102127 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:33:44 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102124 Doctor Olds :

said by dlconkey

:

Not messy at all! MS defaults to C: as gospel. I have NO issues having moved the system to D:

I setup several systems that are Dual Boot (Win2K - WinXP) with Dual HDD where C: is Win2K and D: is XP with each drive made into 4 equal partitions. Drive 0 is C: E: F: G: while Drive 1 is D: H: I: J: and it works flawlessly.
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102124 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:33:18 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102102 dlconkey : And how are your results?? ;) If you benchmark the partitions, it will be clear as to the speedup as well as the system response too. Thanks! ;)
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102102 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:27:41 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102092 dlconkey : The main concept is simple... The HDD speed is close to linear outside to inside. Easy to take advantage of that and put the heavily used data first on the drive.
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102092 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:24:16 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102080 dlconkey : your setup will help, but again, the heaviest used section as the pagefile and temp files.

Apps are NOT always looking for c:! It's the installer DEFAULTING TO c: WHICH IS WHY YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO CHANGE THE INSTALL PATH(I.E. E:\ in my case). Some older ones won't give you a chance to alter the path... ok, so install on c:
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102080 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:22:13 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102060 OZO : dlconkey

- thank you for the good advice: HDD are mainly CAV devices. I've moved my pagefile.sys file close to beginning of HDD to run computer faster.
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102060 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:19:41 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102047 dlconkey : Not messy at all! MS defaults to C: as gospel. I have NO issues having moved the system to D: the key is knowing the setup options as you need to "force XP to use a different partition. Trust me, no issues, no problems, and we don't have DOS apps hard coded to C: anymore. You part your drive as I suggest and get back to us. measure it now, and then re-partitioned. It.s not rocket science, but in all fairness, it's not an intuitive change to make and you need to research the XP install process.

Again, I have hard numbers proving the large speed benefits. Plus, smaller partitions also gain you speed.
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102047 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:17:06 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102016 dlconkey : I'm aware that MS has never written the defrag. It's been E.S. all along, just obsolete versions. my bad on the miswording.
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21102016 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:11:29 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21080184 Mele20 :

said by Rxdoxx

:

Also have to look at exactly what files are fragmented.
I've found Windows to be far and away the biggest fragmenter of my system.
With restore usually leading the way, WBEM, Prefetch... all kinds of things.

Very good advice. I have noticed the same thing. Fragmentation is mostly in System Volume Information but I also see in ProcessGuard and a few of my documents folders. But System Restore is by far the most fragmented and I don't restore maybe once or twice a year so it does pay to look at where the most fragmentation is occuring.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21080184 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:13:33 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077576 Rxdoxx : Also have to look at exactly what files are fragmented.
I've found Windows to be far and away the biggest fragmenter of my system.
With restore usually leading the way, WBEM, Prefetch... all kinds of things.

For me, I use a smaller drive as my os, download things to a folder there, then CUT and paste to the large storage drive. This removes the file from my OS drive, and defragments it on the transfer.
Result is that I defragment a couple of times a year. The storage drive almost never needs it, and the main drive usually doesn't involve any files what will affect performance (an exception may be if I have a bunch of saved games in MyGames folder but even that...may be an extra 2 or 3 seconds to load a save, its not like I'm accessing the save a lot).
May be more critical if you are constantly editing pictures or documents.
So my suggestion is take a real good look at exactly what the fragmentation involves and decide if a defrag is needed.
If fragmentation is 85% Restore files, how many times do you actually use restore? If once a year, then don't worry about it.
Defragmentation has its place and can help, but a lot of times it is straightening things that really don't have to be.
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Was a Cruise Fanatic, one cruise on Princess cured me. Bleah]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077576 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:14:58 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077286 cowboyro : Create 2 partitions on the 500GB drive and ghost your existing drive to one partition. Leave the other for data (easier to deal with re-installing the OS).
As far as the 80GB drive goes - wipe it and use it as a backup for critical files (in addition to whatever tapes/cd/dvd you're backing up to... you are, right???). When/if the 500GB drive takes a dump you'll have an easy way to restore your files. My $.02]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077286 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:19:31 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076673 ChiTang :

said by JimmyCarter1

:

Good job...dlconkey

ROTFLMFAO, I told them what you are telling them..you are shoveling it into the wind.

Chi will tell you, "I forget more than you know".

If he does refer him to this post.

»[XP Pro] Will the XP Pro license transfer to a rebuilt PC?

You didn't say anything that resemble what dlconkey

said. You are trying to get a free ride on dlconkey

's tail. As usual, you are stealing credit from others and claim as yours.

You keep bringing up my comments to you (with links) whenever is possible, even in different thread which is totally unrelated.

When are you going to stop?
Are you trying to embrass yourself?
Why keep changing your handle (JimmyCarter, JimmyCater1, MrCJimmyCarter plus whatever I haven't nocticed)?
Are you embrassed of your past in DSLR?
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I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076673 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:20:49 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076558 ChiTang :

said by dlconkey

:

XP, over time, totally fraggs the HDD. I had high hopes for XP's "performance, and self-tuning..." Perhaps with a clean install but sorry, over time, the XP defragger SCREAMS "this volume needs to be defragmented"!

I already said in my previous post that XP effectively fragments the HD. If a data drive is fragmented, the performance degrade is not noticeably. For OS partition, I also have mentioned, keep it small, keeep the usage about 50-60%, then performance will not be affected by much. Of cource a defrag is good, a defrag with a commercial software is even better than the builtit one. My point is that defrag is not needed if one were to use the OS partition the way I described.

I am not sure OP wants more on "data seperation" or more on "HD performance" or both. Data seperation by partition within the same HD is not a true data seperation. So, in one of my previous post, I said, 80GB OS + 500 Data Storage is well balanced.

I do agree your point about making the HD into 4 partition. I will perform better, it is a good peice of info foe someone who is doing a new/clean install. OP may elect to ignore cos it is too much work.
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I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076558 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:57:58 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076549 wonderworm3 :

said by dlconkey

:

It's not rocket science, and I've proved the results...
Partition the 500GB drive into sections capitalizing on the speed differences:

Part 1 - page/temp files
Part 2 - the OS
Part 3 - Your apps
Part 4 - storage (in my case all "install files", and rarely used files)

Conkey. I agree with your post but have a question. XP defaults the first partition to the C: drive. So how can you make the first partition (C: drive) for page and temp files without causing problems in the future since your OS is now installed on the D: partition but apps are always looking to the C: by default for new installs. Could get real messy.

Because of that, I modified your setup slightly by using more disks and should maximize speed too. Can you give me your opinion as to setting up the PC like this:?

Disk 1, Partition 1 - the OS
Disk 2, Partition 1 - Temp/Page files
Disk 1, Partition 2 - the Apps
Disk 2, Partition 2 - STORAGE or Linux Partition
Disk 2, Partition 3 - STORAGE or Linux Partition]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076549 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:56:34 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074700 hortnut : What is the capability of the Motherboard?

Brand and Model of MB?

Brand and Model of HDD?

Type of connection of available - Sata/EIDE, though I think it is EIDE with your speed?

What are the specs of each HDD?

Ex: WD Caviar® Blue™ =
750 GB, 3 Gb/s, 16 MB Cache, 7200 RPM,
Interface: SATA 3 Gb/s; EIDE 100 MB/s

For example I can take an EIDE 7200 rpm HDD and hook it up to one of my 8-9 year old FIC VA503+ Motherboards, it will not move anywhere near 100MB/s.

Little bit brain dead, but some questions I would ask of my system, and yes adding RAM can sometimes be a very good investment. I have been practicing this upgrade before my 386 that only took 16 megs of ram, Tandy 1000 256k to 384k made all the difference in 1985 or so.
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Darn, its gettin that time to go to Wallymart to gits me picture taken agin.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074700 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:38:00 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074659 Mele20 :

said by dlconkey

:

And the 98SE defrag, by microsoft, does a much better job! Leaves NO holes.

It is not by Microsoft. Defrag in 98 is by Executive Software who are the makers of Diskeeper. It never worked well. What did work for 98 was either using the ME defragger (also from Executive Software and built into ME) or using Diskeeper Lite which was FREE and offered by Executive Software on their website for several years. If you do an extended search here you will find many posts around 2001-2002 about using Diskeeper Lite on 98SE or using the defragger from ME...both by Executive Software.

I used Diskeeper Lite after someone mentioned it here. It was a HUGE improvement on the defragger built into 98SE. I had friends who used it or the ME defragger in 98SE. No one liked the built in 98 defragger as it took forever and you could not have anything running while it worked. If you moved the mouse accidentally...it would start all over again. It was an awful defragger. Diskeeper Lite and the ME defragger were both huge improvements.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074659 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:39:19 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074598 JimmyCarter1 : Good job...dlconkey

ROTFLMFAO, I told them what you are telling them..you are shoveling it into the wind.

Chi will tell you, "I forget more than you know".

If he does refer him to this post.

»[XP Pro] Will the XP Pro license transfer to a rebuilt PC?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074598 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:20:57 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074559 dlconkey : All you are going to get are non-scientific opinions. Wear and tear by defragging???? LMFAO Defragging puts files together, so while it takes a lot of HDD work to do it, the end result is FAR less wear and tear!

And the more often you DO defrag, the less work needs to be done to do it so overall, I'd call the increased W7T ... BUSTED. Yet again, someone with a perceived cause and effect which simply is not true.
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074559 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:40:26 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074552 dlconkey : NTFS has a defrag API built in which can safely move files in-use. ALL defragger's use it. It's up the the strategy the defrag app uses as to it's effectiveness.

AFA disabling the pagefile, yes you can do it given sufficient RAM 500MB at LEAST, but what works better, is to defrag in safe mode to free up locked (not just in use) and actually, if you DO disable the page file, that space will defrag into the free space so when you re-enable it, it's hopefully in better spot.

And here's the key... disable "auto management" and force a fixed size. Regardless of the warnings from the OS, and from MS, a fixed size will totally prevent any page file fragmentation, and also speed up the system as it doesn't have to resize the file which is what frags it it the first place, and adds performance. just use the task mgr to see the max commit charge after "heavy use" and if it's getting close the the total system memory (RAM+virtual), then disable pagefile, defrag, reboot, then up the FIXED size.

AS an example, for my needs, I have 768 physical RDRAM and a total memory pool of 2000GB (I like round numbers!lol) The only time 'I've run it out was doing something dumb, as we all have, by highlighting a bunch of files to delete, but accidentally hit the left button... OUCH!

Sorry this was rushed and is not as succinct as I'd want. Some might not make sense at first. IM for any clarifications.

BTW, everything I'm suggesting I've proven on my own systems. You cannot believe everything MS recommends as the best solution, just the best generic solution.

Thanks,
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074552 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:35:42 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074529 dlconkey : XP, over time, totally fraggs the HDD. I had high hopes for XP's "performance, and self-tuning..." Perhaps with a clean install but sorry, over time, the XP defragger SCREAMS "this volume needs to be defragmented"!

And BTW, the XP defragger IS Disk-keeper's OLD generation app! DK, is simply a newer, faster, more efficient app they sell and as a result, was NOT licensed by MS for XP... DK saved their flagship for purchase only. Look at the binaries if you doubt this...

And the 98SE defrag, by microsoft, does a much better job! Leaves NO holes.
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074529 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:13:08 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074499 dlconkey : Wrong.. Multi-partitioning will kill your speed strategy.

This will give you *slightly* better performance.

I'm talking way more than "slightly better". I'm saying massively better.

never use the entire HD for everything despite what Microsoft says. They simply want users to not get into trouble, mess up their systems, and let XP "manage" the system. :huh:

Sorry,
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074499 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:45:40 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074495 dlconkey : You should be in the 100's MB/sec range, and here's why:

It's not rocket science, and I've proved the results...
Partition the 500GB drive into sections capitalizing on the speed differences:

Part 1 - page/temp files
Part 2 - the OS
Part 3 - Your apps
Part 4 - storage (in my case all "install files", and rarely used files)

If you look at this list, the most used is part 1, least used part 4. You want the page file to run as fast as possible, followed by the kernel HDD needs on part 2.

Apps then load next. The last part, being the slowest, is used for stuff not needed continuously by the system.

Partitions are always allocated from Outside, to Inside of the HDD platters and in general, since HDDs are CAV, the outside (.e. first partition) will read much faster, 2x faster easily.

The key is to set the partition sizes large enough for your current, and future needs, without "going over" (so you don't waste space).

I know for sure several are going to disagree..

I've done the speed tests, proven the advantage, and seen the system performance jump compared with one single partition i.e. the whole HDD for everything.

Final MAJOR benefit.... If the OS crashes, it's on it's own partition separate from your apps and data. You can reinstall and not harm the other partitions. I also have a 5th partition between #2 & 3 reserves for Linux.

If anyone wants to debate this, then PLEASE try it yourself before spouting off. Due to the nature of CAV drives, it HAS to work!

Compare this to CLV CD drives. The speed of the disc slows as you go from inner, to outer cylinders to keep the linear velocity constant. HDDs don't work this way though as some will want to point out, due to logic speed limits, some HDDs use zoned read speeds making the speed differences non-linear across the drive.

It aggravates me seeing the usual advice which does nothing AFA hardware performance.

Again, if anyone disagrees, multi-partition a HDD, and run speed tests... The results will probably surprise you.

EDIT: Forgot to add I have a Linux partition as #3 so it's C) page/temp, E)OS, F)LINUX, G) APPS, I)Install files/misc. The gaps in drive designations are irrelevant and result from other HW changes.

Good luck, and best regards,
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Dave, Chicago - Edgewater/Uptown, @ the lakefront]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074495 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:42:00 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073572 ChiTang :

said by kdshapiro

:

The wear and tear from defragging vs more evenly spaced data by not defragging is like the "should I turn my pc off when I finished"?

When system idle, there is no W&T in terms of RW and seeking in HD. So, "should I shut it down" will be a matter of electric bill, W&T in HD motor, W&T in HD controller board. In the good old days, the main HD killer is start & stop of HD. HD was so expensive, it was better to pay extra electric bill than turning it on/off everyday. Today's HD, it has at least 20000 on/off tolorence, even if you turn on/off the HD 20 times a day, it is still supposed to last for 3 years.

said by kdshapiro

:

I defrag my disks every two weeks using DK8, the performance boost is noticeable. I have been using DK for years without an issue.

I use small OS partition, around 40 GB, I use in such a way it will be atmost 50-60% used. I clean temp file and temp internet files. That is all I do. ocasssional, delete all restore point and recreate right after it is deleted. Its performance is like new.

I don't defrag, some people do, it is not because defrag is needed, it is because the way they use the computer requires a defrag.
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I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073572 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:00:55 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073483 Unit649 : I defrag:

1) Once every 90 days or so, or;
2) After any major software installation.

Anyone who tells you that you need more is telling you bunk, unless you're constantly adding and deleting files.

Defragmentation causes wear because its an intense constant read/write operation. Unless you're looking to stress test the drive, you don't need to do it that often.

If you want to do that, I'd suggest running a backup at the defrag interval instead of defragging that often. At least then when the drive craters hopefully you'll have a viable backup.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073483 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:47:17 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073372 dean corso : I just started using a page-file-defragger from Sysinternals, which defrags the page file at each boot up. I'm not sure if I notice any performance difference yet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073372 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:27:32 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073330 kdshapiro : The wear and tear from defragging vs more evenly spaced data by not defragging is like the "should I turn my pc off when I finished"?

I turn my pc off (actualy hibernate) when I'm not using it for the next half hour. I have an over-clocked p4 that I built in 2002 for which I am waiting for the thing to croak so I can build another.

I defrag my disks every two weeks using DK8, the performance boost is noticeable. I have been using DK for years without an issue.

Do what you think is best. Defragmentation, especially boot time defragmentation can make your system seem like new.
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Ken]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073330 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:20:32 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073225 dean corso : According to DTemp:

500 GB - 49C (120F)
80 GB - 47C (117F)

:huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073225 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:04:07 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072968 prestonlewis : Well, I'm thinking of something different entirely. Heat is generally what kills hard drives. Ever touch a hard drive that's been turned on and spent hours operating inside your computer chassis? They can get pretty hot. I use a "hard drive cooler" which is essentially a fan mounted in a metal housing that screws into the 4 screw holes underneath the hard drive. It has the usual 4 pin Molex power connector with a pass through so you don't lose a needed power plug. I personally like the iCEBERQ by Lantec model that has an aluminum frame that helps draw heat out of the hard drive. Using a hard drive fan cooler, my hard drive now runs at 91.4 degrees F which should help it live a long, long time. Download a temp software program like hmonitor.exe (hardware sensor monitor) or SpeedFan (which uses Celcius so you have to convert it to Farenheit). It will tell you your hard drive temp. Too high and your drive will have a short life. Just my opinion. Good luck.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072968 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:11:39 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072186 Wolfie00 :

said by salzan

said by Wolfie00

:

Reason I mention seek frequency is that I have a somewhat obscure stand-alone defragger on a boot CD that I used when neither Windows nor my version of Diskkeeper was able to defrag the disk sufficiently for me to get back a contiguous pagefile.

Tried that, didn't work. Windoze and the crippled defrag that comes with it is pretty useless. Defragging NTFS seems to be a challenging process, even though NTFS itself is by far the best file system available for Windows.
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" -- a corollary of Murphy's Law
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072186 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:45:24 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072093 salzan :

said by Wolfie00

FWIW, If you have enough RAM to turn off the pagefile, you can defrag the drive with it off and then turn the pagefile back on. Not only will it be contiguous but it will be at the end of the files on the drive.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072093 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:24:23 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072070 ChiTang : At the early 80's, I had some opportunities to work on some Pheonix and Hawk hard drive. Each is almose 200 pounds, they are noisy and shakey as well.

Modern new HD, is small, light, I don't think the weight of the arm and the RW head is not an issue cos it is light to begin with and the weight is distributed towards the center. The RW head is "flying" on the platter actuall not touching the platter.

For defraggers that run within the OS, certain files just cannot be defragged in the OS partition. You standalone defragger must be a self contained utility, using that util would catagorised as a "maintainance", not defragging. :)

I still believe the need of defragging is the left over habit of the Win9X era. I defragg in Win9X and don't find a need to do it in XP. Even in Win9X, I didn't use windows defrag to defrag. I copy the content away, quick format and copy the content back.
--
I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072070 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:20:02 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071902 Wolfie00 :

said by ChiTang

:

The tracking/seeking machanism, the movement of the RW heads, the differece between first and last cyclinder is less than 2 inches.

Just extending the clarifications here, not arguing ... it's not just the distance that is important, but also the mass of the heads and -- most importantly -- the seek frequency. (OT, I remember old drives like the Digital Equipment RP04 -- the size of a washing machine -- that had to be thoroughly supported on the raised floor or the head seeks -- which caused the whole head/platter assembly to bounce around violently -- could make the entire cabinet dance across the floor! :D).

Reason I mention seek frequency is that I have a somewhat obscure stand-alone defragger on a boot CD that I used when neither Windows nor my version of Diskkeeper was able to defrag the disk sufficiently for me to get back a contiguous pagefile. I was seriously worried when I ran it because the disk started sounding like an electric shaver, it was seeking so fast! But I left it, and it did in fact defrag extremely well. I think this was an old product from Winternals.
--
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" -- a corollary of Murphy's Law
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071902 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:37:59 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071858 ChiTang : Don't mean to argue to you, just trying to extend my point of wiew in wear & tear (W&T). We all agree that MTBF is directly proportional to the reciprocal of W/T.

The tracking/seeking machanism, the movement of the RW heads, the differece between first and last cyclinder is less than 2 inches. Seeking for cylinder 100 will have the save W/T on seeking for cylinder 200. By not defragging, you have the advantage of using the whole HD more evenly. The seeking is well exercised/utilised. I also agree with you that if it is of any practical concern. One can also say, HD is cheap so no need to worry W&T. But, during a peaceful arguement or a heated discussion, every point counts.
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I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071858 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:25:29 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071857 bent : Raid 0 does have real world application, but it's either in some kids gaming box, or in a raid 10 for mission critical high performance storage.
--
»www.lp.org/issues/family-budget

"That government is best which governs least" - Thoreau]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071857 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:24:41 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071796 Wolfie00 : Concur with the last two posts. RAID-0 should be taken out of the RAID descriptions; it's not RAID (nothing "Redundant" about it!), it's an abomination that cuts your reliability in half. It's also true (second post) that high disk activity such as with defragging could theoretically reduce MTBF since head actuators are mechanical devices that do sustain wear. Whether this is a practical concern I don't know, however, a highly fragmented disk will inherently have more head movement on an ongoing basis, so it's always a tradeoff.

Also, I'll add a comment about "real" RAID -- like RAID-1 or 5. With one exception, where someone I know (not me!) spilled wine all over a laptop, I have yet to encounter a fatal physical disk failure, but I have encountered lots of logical failures -- i.e.- viruses damaging files, or file corruption from memory failures. RAID doesn't help in any of those, which experience says is probably more likely. RAID is no substitute for backups.
--
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" -- a corollary of Murphy's Law
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071796 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:12:29 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071764 ChiTang : I said, diskeeper and/or defrag will increase the overall wear and tear on HD.

Also, they will increase the usage on certain area of the platters while leaving some area untouched. Therefore increase the wear and tear in the concentrated area. Plus the initial overhead of defragging.

Nobody said the HD will be damaged. You are jumping to your convoluted conclusion. Your post is just as good as your DSLR handle.
--
I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071764 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:04:58 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071700 bent : Yes. Raid 0, and double your HDD failure rate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071700 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:51:53 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071627 Wolfie00 : You should probably split the pagefile over the two drives; everything else being equal, it's better than hammering away at one drive when paging. I have it split equally over both my drives. You could (in theory) put the entire pagefile on the second drive, but without a pagefile on the system drive (C:) Windows will not be able to generate a memory dump in the event of a crash so it's not usually recommended.
--
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" -- a corollary of Murphy's Law
"A dog is like a child who never grows old ... always there to love and be loved" -- Aaron Katcher
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071627 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:36:24 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070825 anon : Well first of all get 2 500gig drives sata stripe them raid 0 then a fresh install

you will see an improvement on your drives for sure then use the file and transfer wizard on your old drive then use that as an external back up drive

i use diskeeper all the time set it and forget it mode
this bullshit about damaging your drive is just that (bullshit) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070825 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:29:20 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070725 JimmyCarter1 : Dean

I have also googled what these people have said about diskeeper and so far can't find any experimental evidence to support their charges that "it will ruin the hard drive" and like you I have used it for years with no problem..

OK, now here is what I would do...

Move the small 80 GB hard drive to the new 500 GB hard drive. There is little reason the new one should be that much faster then the old one other than health.

Also, it is remarkable the difference the hard drive makes on the speed of a computer...A top grade hard drive is worth it's weight in gold.

I have done many experiments with different hard drives and was just amazed at the difference a good hard drive makes {all other components being the same.}

Hope this helps..

PS: Dr. Olds, if you are lurking... you never answered my post offering to help you build your son a computer. Did you miss it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070725 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:08:51 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070627 dean corso :

said by JimmyCarter1

:

The most important aspect about your drive you don't mention so I will infer from your OP point that your {system drive gets heavily fragmented only a few days after defragging} HARD DRIVE needs more free space. Tell us what percent of unused space is left on the 80 GB drive.

Almost 3/4 free after moving over most of my media. I also disabled the Windows indexing service which constantly runs in the background to create index lists of your files for when you perform a search.

In regards to Diskeeper, I've been using it for years and have experienced zero problems. I only run it when I want to (any background defrag processes are disabled). Always thought it was more thorough than the Windows defrag utility, but it's interesting to hear some people are totally against it. I'll have to do some research I guess.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070627 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:48:41 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069887 DKS :

said by cork1958

:

Wow! Would've never thought there would be so much resentment towards Diskkeeper. Used to ALWAYS be topics on here about the ultimate defragger and people always argued about how great DK was!

Just using the windows defragger is quite sufficient, or you could use this great free one, »www.auslogics.com/en/software/re···y-defrag

I have DK on two computers, running on XP and in background. Zero problems. I installed it because one of the computers (spouse's Lenovo desktop) was bogging down. Disk kept thrashing. Standard XP defrag solved nothing. DK resolved the issue.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069887 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 08:05:24 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069817 cork1958 : Wow! Would've never thought there would be so much resentment towards Diskkeeper. Used to ALWAYS be topics on here about the ultimate defragger and people always argued about how great DK was!

Just using the windows defragger is quite sufficient, or you could use this great free one, »www.auslogics.com/en/software/re···y-defrag
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069817 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 07:06:39 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069735 Grail Knight : I use O&O Defrag 2K and run it once a month.
No hard drive issues ever.

Had Diskeeper Pro but like O&O 2K better.
--
"Lego Succurro Lima"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069735 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:15:22 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069734 ChiTang :

said by dean corso

:

Both are 7200 RPM, but the new larger HD tests at 94 MB/s with the system drive at 58 MB/s.

You can't simply use these 2 figures as a comparision. They are both 7200 RPM, one could be SATA/UDMA133 and the other is IDE/UDMA100. Also OS drive has overhead, it is constantly being used by the OS. May be Diskkeeper is the reason for its slowness as well.
!
!
If can't compare performance of OS drive vs non-OS HD. You can however, compare performance on OS HD before and after the defrag (with diskeeper disabled). From the two figures, then you can determine if defrag benefits you or not.
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I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069734 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:14:47 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069731 Mele20 :

said by Grail Knight

:

A comparison of XP vs Diskeeper shows exactly what the built-in XP defragger is lacking vs Diskeeper Pro. Other Commercial Defraggers have similar comparisons if you look.

»www.diskeeper.com/diskeeper/home···home.asp

You may not realize this buy if you open up the Options of Diskeeper you can change how often you want it to run and get this even turn off background defrag.

Of course a company will attempt to create a need for their product(s). Do you use a horse & buggy or gasoline powered vehicle? Both will get you to your destination but one has obvious advantages over the other.

I know all that. I was a dupe. They are extremely slick and I didn't know the background of the company or I would never have touched Diskeeper other than what is in every OS. I find it disturbing that Microsoft chose to do business with them and put their defragger in every OS....but then MS has never had the good of the user at heart. Once I learned about the company, I couldn't get Diskeeper Pro off my computer fast enough. They are so persistent that to this day I keep getting emails from them trying to entice me back but I'm not impressed by Tom Cruise.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069731 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:09:36 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069720 Grail Knight : A comparison of XP vs Diskeeper shows exactly what the built-in XP defragger is lacking vs Diskeeper Pro. Other Commercial Defraggers have similar comparisons if you look.

»www.diskeeper.com/diskeeper/home···home.asp

You may not realize this buy if you open up the Options of Diskeeper you can change how often you want it to run and get this even turn off background defrag.

Of course a company will attempt to create a need for their product(s). Do you use a horse & buggy or gasoline powered vehicle? Both will get you to your destination but one has obvious advantages over the other.
--
"Lego Succurro Lima"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069720 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:57:15 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069714 JimmyCarter1 : Dean Corso

The most important aspect about your drive you don't mention so I will infer from your OP point that your {system drive gets heavily fragmented only a few days after defragging} HARD DRIVE needs more free space. Tell us what percent of unused space is left on the 80 GB drive.

Better yet post a picture of your 80 GB drive {disk management}and we can tell you more about why it is slower than the new 500 GB drive.

If you do decide to move the 80 GB drive to the 500 GB drive it is very very easy to do. Having done it many many times the utility that I like to use is Mastor Max Blast 5 provided by Seagate.{Which now owns Maxtor}.

»www.techspot.com/downloads/32-se···ast.html

If your 80 GB hard drive has adequate free space than I do suggest moving the OS from the 80GB to the 500 GB hard drive because the difference in speed is due to the health of the smaller 80 GB hard drive. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069714 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:48:11 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069701 Grail Knight : As herbstreet43325 & Doctor Olds said you could also take that 80gb drive after it is removed from the pc and buy a Hard Drive Enclosure for it and turn it into an external backup drive.

Suggested usage would be personal data, text, images, etc...
--
"Lego Succurro Lima"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069701 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:31:46 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069685 Mele20 : I believe the latest Diskeeper Pro I have is either ver 7 or 8 so I don't know about currently, but Diskeeper, when I was using the pro version on XP, will tell you it needs defragging when it doesn't. That is the entire thing for Diskeeper. Executive Software has to create a supposed need for all this frequent defragging and that is exactly what they do...CREATE a need. That is why I said get rid of Diskeeper. Diskeeper Pro told me I needed to be defragging all the time in the background. If I refused, then it kept telling me it needed to defrag almost daily. Yeah, really. The builtin defragger only says I need to defrag about 3 times a year. With it, I get to read the analysis and I can choose to defrag even if it says I don't need to do so, but I go with it's recommendation. I forgot to do an analysis recently and I was wondering why my computer seemed a little sluggish. The fragmentation had reached about 40%! It had been over six months since I defragged. If I defrag about every four months that is all that is needed, but Diskeeper Pro would have me do it all the time in the background or scheduled every few days.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069685 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:17:00 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069665 Cudni :
said by Mele20 :

First thing I'd do is get rid of Diskeeper. It will ruin your drive. Just use the builtin XP defragger (made by Diskeeper). Only defrag when the builtin one says you need to. For me, that is about 3 times a year.

Lol, and why not set the Diskeeper to the same?

Cudni
--
"what we know we know the same, what we don't know, we don't know it differently."
Help yourself so God can help you.
Microsoft MVP, 2006 - 2008]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069665 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:58:47 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069651 Mele20 : First thing I'd do is get rid of Diskeeper. It will ruin your drive. Just use the builtin XP defragger (made by Diskeeper). Only defrag when the builtin one says you need to. For me, that is about 3 times a year.

As others have suggested, I'd use the old drive for images and the new drive as your main drive. Thing is though your old drive is too small to hold several images. I would have bought two 320GB drives and used one for images. Is it a Seagate? You get Acronis TI with Seagates and you could use that to clone the old drive to the new.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069651 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:36:03 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069631 Cudni : having 500gb as the main drive, as suggested, would make all the difference. Running Diskeeper will contribute similar amount to hd wear and tear as the drive itself, without it running, looking for data on a defragmented disk.

Cudni
--
"what we know we know the same, what we don't know, we don't know it differently."
Help yourself so God can help you.
Microsoft MVP, 2006 - 2008]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069631 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:12:56 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069571 ChiTang : If you want to use the 500 as storage, and to seperate DATA from OS, just copy the data to the storage drive.

If your intent is to reduce wear and tear on OS drive, IMO, stop using Diskeeper, stop defragging should reduce the overall wear and tear on the OS drive.

As for cloning OS to new HD and swap them. You will end up with a faster OS HD but lose certain amount of "degree of freedom" in seperating OS and DATA.

IMO, 80GB OS drive + 500GB DATA drive is well balanced.
--
I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069571 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:33:11 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069521 Doctor Olds : As posted, image the old small drive that is C: and then put that image on the new larger drive, but keep the old drive then reformat that drive keeping it for storage.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069521 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:12:55 EDT Re: [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069502 anon : The best thing you could do is put all the data on the 80 gb drive, and ghost it to the 500 gb drive. Then remove the 80 gb drive, leaving only a single 500 gb drive in your pc.

This will give you *slightly* better performance. Other than that, there's not much else you can do other than the obvious installing more ram. Those new hard drives are not much faster than the 7200 rpm drives from 5 years ago, no matter what benchmarks say.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069502 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 01:59:29 EDT [XP Pro] Tweaking XP to take advantage of second HD http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069286 dean corso : Hi everyone

I just installed a 500 GB drive that I bought to store media and take some load off my original 80 GB system HD. Both are 7200 RPM, but the new larger HD tests at 94 MB/s with the system drive at 58 MB/s. What Windows tasks can I delegate to the new drive to increase overall performance and reduce wear on my system HD? Page file? Temp internet files? Nero burning cache? Is this a wise move? I'm looking to share some of the workload between the two drives to possibly increase reliability (had some drives fail at work and now I'm worried about my own).

Also, is it normal for your system drive to get heavily fragmented only a few days after defragging (using Diskeeper)? I realize this depends on usage, but fragmentation seems to occur awfully fast for me.

Interested in any input!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069286 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:37:22 EDT