Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) in Verizon FIOS TV

Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) in Verizon FIOS TV http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21070372 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:14:32 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:14:32 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21085381 Greg2600 : While it would be better for the consumer if the content was controlled at the source, it is clearly better for the provider to do so at the node (with a box or card). They send out one signal to everyone, and control it by house with the equipment. Again, I've sampled QAM tuning, and it is a mess if you ask me. Too much of a pain to set the channel lineup. I never quite understood the resistance from Cable Companies to the Cable Card. But that only tells me that they must be making a profit on the boxes. Comcast certainly is, with the high rate they charge for them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21085381 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:28:53 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21084017 TurtleFan : It's interesting, though. I got a email reply (Curiously not a PM, and the message claimed that since my email was listed as private, they didn't reveal it to the sender) from VZ Frank wanting to discuss this over phone....

Not giving my number out to anyone, so if he wants to discuss the merits of how Verizon might be able to make this possible, feel free to join in on the discussion here :).
We'll be glad to have an official verizon rep chime in..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21084017 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:18:24 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083914 PJL : It seems to me that those suggesting alternatives to the way FiOS, and most cable systems for that matter, are implemented may be missing the point. The FiOS and state-of-the-art cable systems were designed to provide secure control of services (so that customers can not get service to which they don't subscribe like the good-old days of early cable); implement industry-standards (allowing use of cable cards for boxes like TIVO or TVs that accept them, and off-the-shelf equipment from manufacturs such as Motolola or Scientific Atlanta); and make a profit. Although many other solutions are possible, these are not cost effective -- unless you want to raise the price of the services to account for the much-more complex design solutions. Just my thoughts...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083914 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:58:41 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083222 beady : I agree that it would be nice to not have to deal with boxes, cable cards, etc.

It would have been nice if they designed the system so that they could descramble what you pay for at the ONT on the side of the house. At that point they could broadcast over Clear QAM within the house.

Another option would be to have the Actiontec, or some equivalent, be able to descramble what you receive and send it out clear QAM to the rest of the house.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21083222 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:54:55 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082959 WAW3 : well said]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082959 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:11:03 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082819 TurtleFan : Yes, but good luck outputting that cablecard signal to a DVD Recorder...you get nothing but black screen. Dunno if that would happen with tru2way, but it does with current cards.

Verizon could possibly save money on buying new boxes, tech calls to fix those boxes, and angry customers returning boxes that don't work. They also don't have to worry about products like Tivo getting some of their box share...and if they wanted to could charge $9.99 or the price of a standard box to have it enabled. And Boom, your QAM TV suddenly gets all the channels, and your DVD recorder can archive the shows you want for later...even better since some DVD recorders even have hard drives now..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082819 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:48:12 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082818 anon :

said by udontknownuttin :

having bandwith and being able to do this is 2 stotally seperate things. unless u understand how video is currently delivered to u, what youre suggesting is impractical.

This is basically a summary of what I've tried to say. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082818 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:47:53 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082380 anon : with your thinking why doesnt verizon go and do a 36 channel analog system and filter out channels u dont order. then when u want a pay per view event they can come out remove the filter then put it back on when the fight is over. the set tops are not useless and the boxes cost from $100-$500 so where is the money u claim they are making?
in fact cable companies lose millions a year from unreturned boxes, customer abused boxes, etc

said by nmitersw :

I've always wondered this too, since I can pickup most of my cable channels via my QAM tuner in my TV why why shouldn't I be able to get the Premium channels I pay for too?
Simple, because they want more money to the useless set top box. It seems to me they very well could use some traps/filters like back in the day to block what you are not paying for.
The only reason they want everyone to have a set top box is to eliminate the need to send out a truck/tech to remove or install filters just because you changed your service. now all you need to do is call and they can change your settings while your still on the phone and you'll have the service instantly.
Is it more convenient for you not to have to wait to get your service changed? sure, but you also have to remember that they also eliminated a ton of LOCAL field tech jobs this way and can just have a call center in India doing everything for little of nothing, yet change you more every year.
Don't tell me that it's not possible to go back to the way things were. I hate using a stupid set top box it feels like its 1983 again and when most TV's weren't cable ready. Where do you think they got this great idea of requiring all this equipment and fees? they are just doing the same crap all over again.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082380 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:38:47 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082344 anon : having bandwith and being able to do this is 2 stotally seperate things. unless u understand how video is currently delivered to u, what youre suggesting is impractical. cable companies DO NOT make money off set tops. it is used to secure programming above basic level. they do however make money off premium programming, ppv, vod...GET IT??

said by firstone :

I think theoretically it would be totally possible for verizon to completely eliminate encryption and only send subscribed channels to the user rather than send all the channels encrypted. I believe fiber has enough capacity for this.

However, a) they make money from box rentals. b) verizon buys commercially available equipment and current equipment is designed to work by encrypting the channels.

I don't believe cable providers have enough bandwidth to do user-specific broadcasts. As such, verizon would be the only provider that might be able to do it. That means they'd have to pay for specifically designed equipment and there is no incentive for them to do it. What would they gain?

The only thing they'd gain is ultimate anti-piracy tool but I don't expect it to happen in near future.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082344 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:32:56 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082277 aaronwt : It's called cable cards. You get a TV that has a cable card slot.

said by TurtleFan

said by afiggatt

:

Of all the national cable channels, the premium movie channels would be among the last channels along with the sports channels that they would send unencrypted. Heck, they developed scrambling for analog channels back in the day for HBO and the like. The encryption is how they control access to the channel from a central office. No one is going to return to the day when they would have some one drive out to install a trap filter in the analog line to control who gets HBO.

Verizon currently provides 2 national channels of note in the clear: WGN on 55-100 and The Weather Channel on 66-103(?). Don't know yet whether Weather Channel HD is in the clear. It would be nice if Verizon were to get permission from Discovery to provide HD Theater in the clear and maybe a couple of other more educational/documentary type channels. I also think public news channel such as C-Span, NASA channel, if Verizon ever adds it, should be in the clear.

But don't ever expect the bulk of the national cable channels to be sent without encryption. One of the less publicly stated motivations for a cable company to go all digital is to cut down on cable theft. Digital encryption allows the cable and satellite providers to maintain more control over who gets their services and to make sure they get paid for it. Analog cable theft has been a long time problem in some markets for the cable companies, which are entitled to get paid for the services they provide.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082277 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:19:45 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082212 anon : I think theoretically it would be totally possible for verizon to completely eliminate encryption and only send subscribed channels to the user rather than send all the channels encrypted. I believe fiber has enough capacity for this.

However, a) they make money from box rentals. b) verizon buys commercially available equipment and current equipment is designed to work by encrypting the channels.

I don't believe cable providers have enough bandwidth to do user-specific broadcasts. As such, verizon would be the only provider that might be able to do it. That means they'd have to pay for specifically designed equipment and there is no incentive for them to do it. What would they gain?

The only thing they'd gain is ultimate anti-piracy tool but I don't expect it to happen in near future.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21082212 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:10:53 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21081458 jvanbrecht :

said by mapper

:

I don't think people understand how the digital encryption works. As many people have said, in the analog days, encryption was achieved by using a trap filter at the customer's premises of some sort. With digital encryption, the encryption is done at the CO/Headend and not at the customer level. So it will never become possible to decrypt the channels you want as it isn't in control at the customer level, but only at the CO. If Verizon were to make it at the customer level, each ONT would need a special key to unlock subscribed channels(Probably cost prohibitive, or they can't make money off of it). But it work now the way it is now with CableCARDs, they decrypt the channels you want, but the only thing is Verizon wants to make you pay to decrypt, which is fine for me(as there really is no other option). Sure everyone would like the old analog encryption days, but we all like digital quality don't we?

I actually do understand encryption, quite well actually, and while the infrastructure is not currently in place to do so, it would be trivial (although not very cost effective) for verizon to use the ont identifier as the key to decrypt the traffic (assuming that the traffic was encrypted at the head end using that same identifier). Since each subscriber has a unique identifier on each ont (they are addressable after all), this would work. The downside would be that at the head end, the equipment required to encrypt the streams for each unique identifier would be massive, and have a huge amount of over head on the backend system.

Like I said, not impossible, but certainly not cost effective. In fact, it would be feasible for verizon to implement something like this on a per user basis by charging the users extra for the service, but rather then implement it system wide, do it on a small scale, it would be more expensive then renting an stb, but it would also get rid of the stb (and associated equipment if that stb is part of a larger system that is hidden and uses home automation sub systems to control it - read: rich people option... :) )

Anyways, enough rambling, the other issues as to why is was possible with cable years ago has already been taken care of.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21081458 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:13:44 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21081354 TurtleFan : Scyber -

That wouldn't be bad. Something about the size of a cable card that you would plug in somehow and boom, instant and recordable QAM access. Even if the networks had to put a tiny little logo on their channels to 'prevent pircay', it'd be worth it. The logo on the Fox HD network is so small you hardly notice it anyway :).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21081354 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 10:58:01 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21081101 joe01880 :

said by Scyber

:

It would be cool if there was some sort of device you could rent to unscramble a particular channel for your entire house. Install it after the ONT and enjoy clear qam output. If it was priced like a cable card/DA ($3.99) then it might be worthwhile. Especially for a house with alot of TVs.

I'd guess that the content providers wouldn't like that b/c it would allow anyone to record the clear qam broadcast w/o restrictions.

They already do, its called a STB]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21081101 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 10:07:57 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21081069 Scyber : It would be cool if there was some sort of device you could rent to unscramble a particular channel for your entire house. Install it after the ONT and enjoy clear qam output. If it was priced like a cable card/DA ($3.99) then it might be worthwhile. Especially for a house with alot of TVs.

I'd guess that the content providers wouldn't like that b/c it would allow anyone to record the clear qam broadcast w/o restrictions. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21081069 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 10:02:31 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073503 shark2k :

said by joe01880

:

Old skewl thinking, these are not the days of Yore these are the days where TV entertainment providers have figured a way to make you pay for every TV you have hooked up to their services. Quite frankly, i see nothing wrong with it. There are other legal ways not to pay, easpecially with Verizon who will give you almost anyhthing you ask for once they screw you up, and if they havnt yet, they will, give them time, then play Monte Hall and Make A Deal. Dont fight the system, USE the system! ;)

Old skewl thinking or not I was just trying to get across the point of TurtleFan. It can be debated ad nauseum because people of their opinions. I will eventually get a STB, I'm just still trying to find a job and don't really need the added expense right now. That is really the only reason I would like to be able to get all the channels without the STB.

Your point about seeing nothing wrong with them making you pay can also be debated ad nauseum because you get the people pro corporate America and the people against corporate America. Either way, there really aren't other legal ways not to pay. The only way to legally get all the channels (excluding the locals which they are required to give you) is to pay the cable company for them. But that is neither here nor there. TurtleFan's question was answered and the reasons it is not possible make sense.

Also, did I answer your other question? Does that make sense? I can try and explain it better if it didn't.

-Shark2k]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073503 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:49:55 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072120 mapper : I don't think people understand how the digital encryption works. As many people have said, in the analog days, encryption was achieved by using a trap filter at the customer's premises of some sort. With digital encryption, the encryption is done at the CO/Headend and not at the customer level. So it will never become possible to decrypt the channels you want as it isn't in control at the customer level, but only at the CO. If Verizon were to make it at the customer level, each ONT would need a special key to unlock subscribed channels(Probably cost prohibitive, or they can't make money off of it). But it work now the way it is now with CableCARDs, they decrypt the channels you want, but the only thing is Verizon wants to make you pay to decrypt, which is fine for me(as there really is no other option). Sure everyone would like the old analog encryption days, but we all like digital quality don't we?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072120 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:30:42 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072056 MacLeech : I've never seen a cable company eliminate a ton of local field tech jobs after getting rid of filters.

The scut work of installing/removing traps was replaced with higher levels of service installing cable modems and phones. The additional trouble calls needed to support those needs more techs too.

Dealing with filters is expensive and complicated. Each filter is a few dollars each and the cost of the truck roll to the company needed for installation/removal is $40 and up. Cable boxes are cheaper in the long run, offer more services (VOD, PPV, guide, etc), and offer a standard interface for customers to use the service.

Multiple, non consecutive channel removals REQUIRED multiple filters. In the old days, you'd see tubes of filters a foot or more long with jumpers shoehorned into a vault, for customers who wanted a "custom" line up not handled by the normal tier traps. Often those same customer would complain their remaining channels had poor picture quality due to the side effects of the filters reducing signal strength and quality.

Do you really want to go back to that sort of system?

Beyond that how do you filter out 1 channel in a MPEG mux of 2 or 10? Not with an RF filter you don't...

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072056 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:17:28 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072000 anon : I've always wondered this too, since I can pickup most of my cable channels via my QAM tuner in my TV why why shouldn't I be able to get the Premium channels I pay for too?
Simple, because they want more money to the useless set top box. It seems to me they very well could use some traps/filters like back in the day to block what you are not paying for.
The only reason they want everyone to have a set top box is to eliminate the need to send out a truck/tech to remove or install filters just because you changed your service. now all you need to do is call and they can change your settings while your still on the phone and you'll have the service instantly.
Is it more convenient for you not to have to wait to get your service changed? sure, but you also have to remember that they also eliminated a ton of LOCAL field tech jobs this way and can just have a call center in India doing everything for little of nothing, yet change you more every year.
Don't tell me that it's not possible to go back to the way things were. I hate using a stupid set top box it feels like its 1983 again and when most TV's weren't cable ready. Where do you think they got this great idea of requiring all this equipment and fees? they are just doing the same crap all over again. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21072000 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:03:13 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071910 joe01880 : [BQUOTE=shark2k
As to your question directly to me, I have a question for you (and I'm not trying to be an ass). Do you know how the STB handles channels? Because if you did (and this is at least how I understand it) is that the STB assigns the channels to their respective number, i.e. 4-1 (which is NBC HD on my QAM tuner) is 504 when you are using a QAM tuner. Therefore channel 1811 would probably come in (and this is just for an example) as 77-11 or something similar to that. I receive all the music channels (because those are not encrypted) and they are on channels (for me) like 68-11 and other seemingly random channels. It's just the way QAM works.

-Shark2k
[/BQUOTE

Old skewl thinking, these are not the days of Yore these are the days where TV entertainment providers have figured a way to make you pay for every TV you have hooked up to their services. Quite frankly, i see nothing wrong with it. There are other legal ways not to pay, easpecially with Verizon who will give you almost anyhthing you ask for once they screw you up, and if they havnt yet, they will, give them time, then play Monte Hall and Make A Deal. Dont fight the system, USE the system! ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071910 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:41:54 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071757 MacLeech :

said by TurtleFan

:

would they ever consider, say, a $5 monthly fee or a fee the price of a set top box to develop a system that would allow this to be possible for those that want it?

This is what CableCARDs are for now and what the card-less DCAS (downloadable conditional access system) is being developed to be in the future.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071757 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:03:57 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071708 TurtleFan :

said by afiggatt

OK, MacLeech, That explains it a bit better. So with this new system, they can't unlock those keys (for the sake of simplistic explinations) on a case by case basis for subscribers to these channels. If they remove key 1, everyone gets the channel key 1 was subscribed too.

And to Afiggatt - We're already paying through the roof for cable, but for those with QAM Tuners on their TV's and PC's, would they ever consider, say, a $5 monthly fee or a fee the price of a set top box to develop a system that would allow this to be possible for those that want it? Then your QAM TV or Tuner can get everything once again and they'd have a HUGE competitive edge of their customers while earning extra income to boot. Not to mention getting rid of those trouble some boxes. If a VERY tiny logo that would never get any bigger (aka small watermark) where needed to be placed on the HD feed, I could live with that...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071708 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:53:49 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071618 afiggatt : Of all the national cable channels, the premium movie channels would be among the last channels along with the sports channels that they would send unencrypted. Heck, they developed scrambling for analog channels back in the day for HBO and the like. The encryption is how they control access to the channel from a central office. No one is going to return to the day when they would have some one drive out to install a trap filter in the analog line to control who gets HBO.

Verizon currently provides 2 national channels of note in the clear: WGN on 55-100 and The Weather Channel on 66-103(?). Don't know yet whether Weather Channel HD is in the clear. It would be nice if Verizon were to get permission from Discovery to provide HD Theater in the clear and maybe a couple of other more educational/documentary type channels. I also think public news channel such as C-Span, NASA channel, if Verizon ever adds it, should be in the clear.

But don't ever expect the bulk of the national cable channels to be sent without encryption. One of the less publicly stated motivations for a cable company to go all digital is to cut down on cable theft. Digital encryption allows the cable and satellite providers to maintain more control over who gets their services and to make sure they get paid for it. Analog cable theft has been a long time problem in some markets for the cable companies, which are entitled to get paid for the services they provide.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071618 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:34:09 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071576 shark2k :

said by MacLeech

:

TurtleFan,

Cable providers CAN'T send an unencrypted signal aka ClearQAM JUST for you or any other single customer. You are connected to a shared broadcast medium, everybody in your service group gets the same signal as you.

Since they can't sen an unencrypted signal just for you, you and each device that wants that encrypted channel need a device that can unencrypt it if authorized, which is a CableCARD or a cable box.

GSN = Key 1
HGTV = Key 1
HBO = Key 2
Starz = Key 3
2-13 = no key, clearQAM if digital
etc.

You order a tier, the box gets the needed keys to open the channels. If they want to run a preview or open the show, they just open up that channel so it doesn't need it's key for a while.

And that is the explanation that was needed to explain why it can't be done like back in the days. That is really what Turtlefan was trying to find out. Thanks for the explanation Macleech.

-Shark2k]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071576 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:24:43 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071561 shark2k :

said by joe01880

:

I understand what he/she is saying just fine, what ya all are not understanding is if you want to see the HD or standard def on a different TV is you are going to have to pay for the equipment to do it. If your not going to use Verizons equipment you are going to HAVE to get the cable card from VERIZON. Right, wrong, legal or not thats just the way it is. They are in business to make money in every way they can.
It still a fantastic value even if you have to get the $3.99 cable card. If you want to complain about something try gas prices.

Edit to shark;

How is your TV going to tune to channel 1811 without a Set Top Box. That channle is included with the Pemier package which also has all the moive channels standard and high def.

We understand that if we want to see the HD or standard def on a different TV we are going to need the equipment. The point that is trying to get across, and to me at least KA3SGM answered it, is why can't Verizon unscramble these channels for the customers that pay. It was doable in the days of yore (as TurtleFan stated) before the boxes were needed, so for the people that do not understand 100% how FiOS works, we did not know whether it could be done or not.

As to your question directly to me, I have a question for you (and I'm not trying to be an ass). Do you know how the STB handles channels? Because if you did (and this is at least how I understand it) is that the STB assigns the channels to their respective number, i.e. 4-1 (which is NBC HD on my QAM tuner) is 504 when you are using a QAM tuner. Therefore channel 1811 would probably come in (and this is just for an example) as 77-11 or something similar to that. I receive all the music channels (because those are not encrypted) and they are on channels (for me) like 68-11 and other seemingly random channels. It's just the way QAM works.

-Shark2k]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071561 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:21:53 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071521 MacLeech : TurtleFan,

Cable providers CAN'T send an unencrypted signal aka ClearQAM JUST for you or any other single customer. You are connected to a shared broadcast medium, everybody in your service group gets the same signal as you.

Since they can't sen an unencrypted signal just for you, you and each device that wants that encrypted channel need a device that can unencrypt it if authorized, which is a CableCARD or a cable box.

GSN = Key 1
HGTV = Key 1
HBO = Key 2
Starz = Key 3
2-13 = no key, clearQAM if digital
etc.

You order a tier, the box gets the needed keys to open the channels. If they want to run a preview or open the show, they just open up that channel so it doesn't need it's key for a while.

In the old days with analog channels, there where positive and negative traps or filters that could be used. Negative traps took out channels and positive traps took out interdiction signals that would interfere with TV reception. These would be placed at each customers home connection so the entire home would get the same signal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071521 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:12:11 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071498 joe01880 :

said by TurtleFan

:

>>Joe>>

TV Tuners can tune in Clear QAM Channels for the last few years now. When My Fusion HDTV 5 scans channels, it finds a good 500 or so of them, and naturally all but 2-13 and a few of the minor local ones are listed as 'encrypted'. The channels are there, but we just can't see them. Yet somehow for this free preview weekend, they turned that encryption off for HBO and Cinemax, even for the customers that ARE PAYING FOR THOSE CHANNELS MONTHLY. When that preview weekend is off, the channels go back to being encrypted, and we still get them via TV's that have a box, or Cable card. We just can't see them over an ATSC or TV Tuner enabled box. That's what I'm not getting.

For the last time, because they are encrypted and the STB unencrypts it and you have to pay for the STB.
Geez, if you know how to finagle with Verizon even a little you dont even have to pay for the STB.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071498 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:05:46 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071400 joe01880 : I understand what he/she is saying just fine, what ya all are not understanding is if you want to see the HD or standard def on a different TV is you are going to have to pay for the equipment to do it. If your not going to use Verizons equipment you are going to HAVE to get the cable card from VERIZON. Right, wrong, legal or not thats just the way it is. They are in business to make money in every way they can.
It still a fantastic value even if you have to get the $3.99 cable card. If you want to complain about something try gas prices.

Edit to shark;

How is your TV going to tune to channel 1811 without a Set Top Box. That channle is included with the Pemier package which also has all the moive channels standard and high def.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071400 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:41:25 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071382 TurtleFan : THANK YOU shark2k It's nice to see someone understands without the need for going off on a rant

I need to lay off forums for a while....
>>user=KA3SGM]>>
The ONT is NOT addressable down to the point that you can toggle individual Encrypted QAM channels ON or OFF, the Cable Cards and Boxes do that instead.

If the Video port on the ONT is turned ON, all you will get with a QAM tuner(Non-CableCard)is the Unencrypted QAM Local channels, if it is turned OFF, you get nothing.
>>

OK, I can understand that.. but then wouldn't all the other channels that are basic, like GSN, or HGTV come in as well? I can't tune these in either, yet I can tune in all the HBO and Cinemax ones in QAM perfectly for this weekend only. If I had a Starz Subscription, I probably couldn't tune in those either on the QAM side. Right now it just seems to be only HBO and Cinemax I can tune in via a QAM Tuner, along with the basic 2-13 and music channels. Everything else is blocked.

>>Joe>>

Retail TV's can tune in Clear QAM Channels for the last few years now. When My Fusion HDTV 5 scans channels, it finds a good 500 or so of them, and naturally all but 2-13 and a few of the minor local ones are listed as 'encrypted'. The channels are there, but we just can't see them. Yet somehow for this free preview weekend, they turned that encryption off for HBO and Cinemax, even for the customers that ARE PAYING FOR THOSE CHANNELS MONTHLY. When that preview weekend is off, the channels go back to being encrypted, and we still get them via TV's that have a box, or Cable card. We just can't see them over an ATSC or TV Tuner enabled box. That's what I'm not getting.

If they are either all on, or all off, why don't I See the basic channels we get with the box as well? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071382 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:38:13 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071375 TurtleFan : Wow, way to over re-act.. Obviously you didn't see the fact that I ALREADY GET THESE CHANNELS WITHOUT THE FREE PREVIEW. I AM PAYING FOR THEM MONTHLY ALREADY WITH THE HBO/CINEMAX combo rate. I AM NOT ASKING VERIZON OR ANY OTHER COMPANY TO GIVE THEM OUT FOR FREE....

If they charged an extra small fee so we could get those QAM Channels tuned in on top of our already paying fee for the HBO/Cinemax combo, I think it'd be worth it.

It's amazing how people get so annoyed at such a simple question. One reason why I tend to avoid message boards as much as possible these days as most tend to go down hill when this starts to happen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071375 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:35:59 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071361 KA3SGM :

said by TurtleFan

:

OK, I know this is an intelligent forum so it's gotta be my crummy explination :). Let me try explaining it this way

Back in the Days of yore, you only needed a Coax cable. If you didn't receive HBO or Cinemax, it was either fuzz, or even earlier, blurred out. When you subscribed to those channels, boom, they where instantly available again with no extra equipment needed.

Now, with Verizon switching to all digital, EVERYTHING is blocked out in QAM minus 2-13. Essentially making QAM TV Tuners and ATSC tuning DVD recorders useless. So, why can't they do what they did back in the early days with normal cable, only this time do it with a QAM signal?

Anyone who subscribes to HBO, Cinemax, etc, will instantly be able to scan the QAM channels on either their TV, ATSC DVD recorder, or TV Tuner like a Fusion 5, and instantly gain access to to them without the need for a Cable Card or box?

Did that help any? I can't explain it any better than that.

Right now I subscribe to HBO and Cinemax, and I am using my Fusion 5 HDTV tuner to view them WITHOUT a cable card enabled system on my computer. Once the preview window is over, those QAM Channels once again go black. Why can't they leave them on all the time for people who subscribe to those channels?

In the 'old days', cable companies used Traps/Filters on the Tap at the pole to Block or De-scramble Analog Pay Channels.

Some Cable systems utilized an Addressable Converter box to accomplish the same thing.

The video port on the ONT is either ON or OFF, and the boxes contain the necessary hardware to De-scramble what you are paying for.

The ONT is NOT addressable down to the point that you can toggle individual Encrypted QAM channels ON or OFF, the Cable Cards and Boxes do that instead.

If the Video port on the ONT is turned ON, all you will get with a QAM tuner(Non-CableCard)is the Unencrypted QAM Local channels, if it is turned OFF, you get nothing.
--
"Follow The White Rabbit....."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071361 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:32:38 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071353 shark2k :

said by joe01880

:

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM and you would need a cable card for your Fusion 5 to see them.

You are not going to hear what you want to hear. These are pay channels, you have to PAY for them. Your fusion 5 see's them because they are in the clear for a few days as a promotiom to get you to PAY for them. If you are NOT going to use Verizons equipment to do it then you need a CABLE CARD for YOUR equipment. IF YOUR fusion 5 DOES NOT accept CABLE CARDS then you are NOT EVER going to see premium channels through it except on free preview days that happen maybe twice a year.

These are NOT the old days, welcome to ther 21st century where companies are finding ways to make sure they do not get burned for services.

Verizon has to pay for use of the premium channels for you to see, so you have to pay to see them, thats how Verizon or (you name the cable company) makes money. ON EACH TV YOU OWN that you wish to use thier services on.

You can use Verizons equipment, Tivo's equpiment, Fusions equipment or Gods equipment but you are still going to have to get a cable card from Verizon (or you cable company) for it to work.

I really do not think you are understanding him here. He said that this would only be for the people that actually subscribe to the premium channels. His last explanation was crystal clear and makes perfect sense. The only reason for Verizon (or any other cable company) making you "need" there equipment to view is so they can charge you for that equipment. I actually agree and think it would be nice if I did not need to get another STB for the TV I just bought for my room so that I can get all the HD channels. As of now all I get are 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13 in HD. Since my parents (I still live with them) subscribe to HBO, CineMAX, Starz, Showtime and TMC it would be awesome if I could get those channels by just plugging the cable into my TV, scan for digital channels and voila, I get all the channels my parents pay for. Considering the fact that there is already a fee for the premium channels, I would say that is how Verizon helps pay for those.

-Shark2k]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071353 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:29:47 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071306 joe01880 : BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM and you would need a cable card for your Fusion 5 to see them.

You are not going to hear what you want to hear. These are pay channels, you have to PAY for them. Your fusion 5 see's them because they are in the clear for a few days as a promotiom to get you to PAY for them. If you are NOT going to use Verizons equipment to do it then you need a CABLE CARD for YOUR equipment. IF YOUR fusion 5 DOES NOT accept CABLE CARDS then you are NOT EVER going to see premium channels through it except on free preview days that happen maybe twice a year.

These are NOT the old days, welcome to ther 21st century where companies are finding ways to make sure they do not get burned for services.

Verizon has to pay for use of the premium channels for you to see, so you have to pay to see them, thats how Verizon or (you name the cable company) makes money. ON EACH TV YOU OWN that you wish to use thier services on.

You can use Verizons equipment, Tivo's equpiment, Fusions equipment or Gods equipment but you are still going to have to get a cable card from Verizon (or you cable company) for it to work.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071306 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:18:50 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071175 TurtleFan : OK, I know this is an intelligent forum so it's gotta be my crummy explination :). Let me try explaining it this way

Back in the Days of yore, you only needed a Coax cable. If you didn't receive HBO or Cinemax, it was either fuzz, or even earlier, blurred out. When you subscribed to those channels, boom, they where instantly available again with no extra equipment needed.

Now, with Verizon switching to all digital, EVERYTHING is blocked out in QAM minus 2-13. Essentially making QAM TV Tuners and ATSC tuning DVD recorders useless. So, why can't they do what they did back in the early days with normal cable, only this time do it with a QAM signal?

Anyone who subscribes to HBO, Cinemax, etc, will instantly be able to scan the QAM channels on either their TV, ATSC DVD recorder, or TV Tuner like a Fusion 5, and instantly gain access to to them without the need for a Cable Card or box?

Did that help any? I can't explain it any better than that.

Right now I subscribe to HBO and Cinemax, and I am using my Fusion 5 HDTV tuner to view them WITHOUT a cable card enabled system on my computer. Once the preview window is over, those QAM Channels once again go black. Why can't they leave them on all the time for people who subscribe to those channels?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071175 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:52:44 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071066 joe01880 :

said by TurtleFan

:

WHOA guys,

I'm not saying they should make the channels free to EVERYONE. What I AM saying, is that if you have a TV Tuner or a TV that gets Clear QAM, if you subscribe to those channels, they should make the QAM version of that channel viewable to the customer that has the subscription. I thought that was pretty clear, but I guess not

That does not even come close to making any sense what so ever.

EDIT:
If you are saying you are PAYING for premium channels and you want your Fusion 5 HD Tuner to be able to recieve them you will need a cable card from Verizon. If your Fusion 5 will not except a cable card your SOL. However, if you are PAYING for premium channels you should already have to equipment to view them so whats the deal?

Besides, how would Verizon or anyone else make premium channels in the clear for just YOU?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071066 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:25:07 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071048 TurtleFan : WHOA guys,

I'm not saying they should make the channels free to EVERYONE. What I AM saying, is that if you have a TV Tuner or a TV that gets Clear QAM, if you subscribe to those channels, they should make the QAM version of that channel viewable to the customer that has the subscription. I thought that was pretty clear, but I guess not ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071048 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:21:20 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071044 TurtleFan : Nope,

I'm hoping it's possible to unlock them so only people who subscribe to those channels can get them on TV Tuners like the Fusion 5. It brought back memories of the old days when you just hooked up a cable and where ready to go :).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21071044 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:19:23 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070977 anon : turtlefan the point of these free previews is to try to get people subscribe but there will always be people that wait for the twice a year for these and leech and record every movie shown on the channels lol :-p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070977 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:03:32 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070968 joe01880 : You see it all in here, people whine because they did not get this channel or that channel. One person because they did not get the (could not find) turn your TV in to a picture channel (Ambient). One because there is not enough free porn, one because there in not enough free sport channels, others because they want technology that has not been invented yet and now this one because they want free premium channels. One guy even posted in here asking how to hack the box for eveything free channels.
ITS pay TV people, not FREE TV or the get something without paying for it forum. The deals you can find or finagle in many cases make it dirt cheap for the amount of content you are getting. Pry a quarter out of your wallet and suck it up and please spare me the "i cant afford it" speal. Cut down on cigarettes, drink less beer, turn the lights off when you leave a room and you can pay for a FiOS premier package. If you can afford a TV with a QAM tuner you can afford to pay for programming.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070968 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:01:40 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070950 jankm : I think he is saying the when there is a free preview, like this weekend for HBO and Cinemax, then it would be nice if the HD versions were provided in the clear for the duration of the free preview.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070950 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:58:06 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070944 PJL : It amazes me how people expect something for free when all the rest of us pay for it as a service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070944 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:56:58 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070896 icemannyr1 : As Geek said that's the problem, with out a STB or a cable card they can't unlock those channels at a house level.

Yeah I would be nice if I could view the HD movie channels with my PC tuner since we do subscribe to them.
It seems for PC your just going to have to wait till someone comes out with a tuner card that has cable card reader with it.
I know ATI makes one but you need a PC running Vista.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070896 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:44:59 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070849 Greg2600 : I thought the digital cable providers had the ability to scramble digital channels from the source, rather than relying on a box? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070849 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:36:57 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070801 GeekNJ : Are you asking that they broadcast the premium channels "in the clear" so you don't need to pay to get them? Why would they do that?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070801 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:21:48 EDT Re: Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070406 darcilicious :

said by TurtleFan

:

IF we can't get all the channels unlocked and in the clear QAM, please at least consider unlocking HBO HD and Max HD.

You need to be appealing to the HBO gods :) Verizon doesn't really have any say in if content from HBO, etc is encrypted or not...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070406 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:04:20 EDT Dear Verizon - Please unlock HBO Max QAM in HD :) http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070372 TurtleFan : I spent a good 4 hours just flipping through and watching movies on my TV Tuner last night. The sound is great, no extra box required, and no hassle other than re-scanning to get the channels in your tuner channel list.

IF we can't get all the channels unlocked and in the clear QAM, please at least consider unlocking HBO HD and Max HD. Either that, or doing more free movie previews for longer durations ;).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070372 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:55:44 EDT