Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. in

said by insomniac84

...If weights were logged, it would be possible to see if one person scrapped metal across multiple scrap yards...
[/BQUOTE :

Great idea overall, but you assume that in this case the owner actually knows how much that beast actually weighs. I'll bet you lunch they havent a clue. What about if they did? what if the perp happened to make a side trip and stole several other items before heading to the 'yard? That would throw off the weight unless you actually forced the scrapyards to actually figure out what bits being recycled came from which sites/items which isnt feasible. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21110584 Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:09:17 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21101740 3SGTE :

said by insomniac84

:

That's awesome. But not enough. People should have to register with the state to scrap metal

I like this idea.
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Striving for Parfection.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21101740 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:20:49 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21097464 Tiggntaz :

said by insomniac84

said by rec9140

:

You want some DNA with that too???!?? :uhh:

While the situation cuts close to home and gets my panties in a bunch I think your approach is a little over the top.

LOL This is funny. There is a reason that everything is done in CASH!!!! I don't want to be taxed on what I take there and they don't want to keep true books.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21097464 Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:19:35 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21096031 d50man : rec9140
Your stuff can still get pulled quick.
F350 thru the fence then hookup to the pedestal and pull.
If they want it they'll take it depends on motivation ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21096031 Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:53:32 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21095641 hottboiinnc : uh sorry no i don't . I work for The Fresh Market. sorry.

But if it was so cheap to build this? who is going to maintain it? you still have to PAY someone to input the information. also hire additional staff to give the licenses. blah blah blah.

you're idea is flawed won't happen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21095641 Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:37:13 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21093126 insomniac84 : I think you are going way to far in your assessment. I've never heard of a company ruined because of a garage sale. Or a real estate deal fall apart because of a pawn shop. Scrap metal yards encourage theft and cause a lot of damage to people. And a pawn shop or a garage sale doesn't destroy the items, which means stolen items at those places are recoverable.
You have crack heads stealing whole towers, catalytic converters from cars, wiring from buildings, pipes from buildings, power lines, etc. And the scrap yards even know these items are stolen, they just ignore the issue because they know they will never get in trouble for it and they can underpay the thief. It's an industry that has failed miserably at self policing and therefore the states need to step in and force something on them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21093126 Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47:54 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21092586 rec9140 :

said by insomniac84 :
Which is something no one has a right to argue over.

Well, then you will need to let every user of Ebay know they need to get a license to sell on Ebay, register with the FBI, CIA, DEA, ATF, EPS, etc...

Ebay can and is used for similar things.

Oh, better apply that registry to every yard sale as well. They are good for at least one stolen property recovery call a weekend if not more. At the height of the yard sale season its probably 3-4 on average a weekend.

I don't see your way.... Your not going to solve the issue with this database. Just as there are pawn shops or others who deal with stolen property you just move it around. Those who are not going to follow the laws to begin with are not going to follow this either. Who is going to polic this? Local police? State? Federal? The feds have way more important things at the top of their list. Hint it starts with the letter T. State. Same thing. Local? Outside major cities, most areas do not have pawn shop units. Your area may different. There is a COST for this enforcement and some one is going to pay and its not just going to be the scrap metal collectors and sellers. YOU, Joe and Jane Taxpayer..... NO Thanks.

Less is more.

There are existing laws and practices to deal with theft.

If you have property that needs to be protected then Y O U as the owner need to protect it.

Just as an example.... The towers I am in direct control of are checked on 3 TIMES per day. Once per shift. If I want to get nasty I can do a little SQL query to the DB and find every record of a tower check. Fail to perform the check in your zone, that is grounds for termination ON THE SPOT! Thats in addition to alarm systems, cameras, and ground sensors. So breath too hard close to my tower(s) be prepared to meet some of my friends and their "little friends."

The tower in question I am familar with and was not in use at the time. Those involved obviously had planned this out very well to get this item down and off the location. Especially due to the remoteness of the location.

The words:

1984

George
Orwell

Big Brother

All come to mind in your proposal, and thanks but NO THANKS!
--
Ban all copyright, trademarks, and IP laws!//Lorem ipsum ei pro stet equidem labores, at enim animal expetenda nec. Ea vix argumentum dissentiunt, usu esse ridens ex.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21092586 Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:40:52 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21092129 insomniac84 : But right now scrap metal yards should not accept bulk catalytic converters. Things they know are stolen. But they do. And if they voluntarily are not keeping records that could be used to track down a thief they are accomplices who embezzle the metal. The fact is, the current system lets a scrapper accept anything with no accountability. They do it because they can underpay the thief and turn around and make a lot of money on the metal.
Yes, the people that support theft, if not promote it, should definitely pay 30 bucks a month to gain access to system to track abuse. Tons of small businesses pay worse for a credit card machine. So costs would definitely not be unfair. In the end, the biggest loss of profit will be the lack of criminals turning in scrap metal. Which is something no one has a right to argue over.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21092129 Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:54:18 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21092020 jarthur31 : That's a very well thought out answer. It's people like you who should run for local or state government. Sadly, it's the corporations that would keep you out of the national spotlight because you can think for yourself and Lord knows they hate dealing with people who have morals and a bit of common sense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21092020 Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:43:55 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21091439 Kearnstd : i can understand not caring much where it comes from when its wire(hard to tell who owned it), but Manhole covers? those usually mention the power company, phone company, or "Public Works" on them and it should ring a bell.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21091439 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:21:39 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21091101 moonpuppy :

said by shdesigns

:

Pawn shops do not recycle metal.

Here with no ID, you will not be able to recycle metals. Your ID is required as all transactions are tied to that ID in their records.

And I know here they were stealing light poles. Large 70ft light poles and the ONLY reason they found one guy was because the police saw him driving a Ford Escort wagon with the pole hanging out the back.

In Philadelphia, they are stealing manhole covers. Someone has to be taking this metal in for scrap and no one seems to know who is bringing it in.

They may ask for ID where you are but not everywhere. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21091101 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:03:56 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090979 Andrew J : How so? A web site. A web site where I sign up on if I want to sell scrap. It takes maybe 5 minutes of my time and I can sign up 24/7.
------------------------------------------------
So now the poor can't sell scrap? Any other rights you want to remove from this class of people?
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Best Team.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090979 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:41:15 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090966 dvd536 :

said by moonpuppy

:

Just like pawn shops, they don't care where the stuff comes from.

:uhh:

they already do in arizona, you can't scrap more than $25 worth of copper without an ID and SSN., catalyitic converters: one in a 90 day span.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090966 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:39:18 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090792 rec9140 :

said by insomniac84 :
Why? This is information scrap yards should be already required to log. Otherwise police ....The only way I could see someone being against this is if they run a scrap yard and regularly pay minimum dollar for metal they know is stolen.

Your welcome to your opinion on things just as any one else.

Less government is more government in my book.

There are also existing laws for theft and existing techniques for investigating them.

There are costs involved in your proposal that will surely be placed on the scarp metal business and that will spread to others. In this economy thats the worst thing. The economy is also to blame for the increase in these types of thefts.

More Nannyment is not the solution.
--
Ban all copyright, trademarks, and IP laws!//Lorem ipsum ei pro stet equidem labores, at enim animal expetenda nec. Ea vix argumentum dissentiunt, usu esse ridens ex.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090792 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:08:29 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090780 shdesigns : Pawn shops do not recycle metal.

Here with no ID, you will not be able to recycle metals. Your ID is required as all transactions are tied to that ID in their records.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090780 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:06:29 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090257 insomniac84 : The state charges a license fee to the scrappers. Problem solved. The security issues are pointless because you can only look up info with the separate id from the site. And it only returns a picture and a name. Nothing else. But info from the id is then inputted and validated. Identity theft doesn't work from a random photo and a random name. You also can let the user set the access times so that info can only be polled the day or the few hours they know they are going to the scrap yard. And you lock out a scrapper that tries to run random numbers. Which would stop them from accepting metal and thus ruining their business. Security is not an issue. The webpage is extremely simple and cheap. It can run on existing servers.

said by hottboiinnc

:

If you don't like the way the business is done tough shit. States have bigger problems to worry about than paying for a new database- let alone making sure scrap yards comply with the law.

Clearly you are a metal scrapper that buys catalytic converters from crack heads.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21090257 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:24:01 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088796 anon : I thought China had their fill of US scrap metal already?

Prices will drop until they need more and the prices will go back up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088796 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:21:57 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21089866 hottboiinnc : are you going to build, host, maintain and everything else for this website?

And what happens when you have someone sitting there during the day bored and then randomly put puts numbers into that system? Are you going to be one who whines and cries that not enough protection was there?

Of course you would be

I call bullshit on what you want done.

If you don't like the way the business is done tough shit. States have bigger problems to worry about than paying for a new database- let alone making sure scrap yards comply with the law.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21089866 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:13:48 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21089632 insomniac84 :

said by rec9140

said by insomniac84 :
How so? A web site.

Too much Nannyment for my tastes.

Why? This is information scrap yards should be already required to log. Otherwise police would have zero chance of even investigating metal theft. This just moves it to a simple website that makes it easy to determine theft and ban people who have been caught with theft from scrapping metal.
Scrap yards have no right to run a business that allows them to profit heavily off of theft. If states implemented such a simple tracking system people wouldn't have to worry about their catalytic converters or their giant towers disappearing.
The only way I could see someone being against this is if they run a scrap yard and regularly pay minimum dollar for metal they know is stolen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21089632 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:33:55 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21089497 rec9140 :

said by insomniac84 :
How so? A web site.

Too much Nannyment for my tastes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21089497 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:14:18 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088743 insomniac84 :

said by rec9140

:

You want some DNA with that too???!?? :uhh:

While the situation cuts close to home and gets my panties in a bunch I think your approach is a little over the top.

How so? A web site. A web site where I sign up on if I want to sell scrap. It takes maybe 5 minutes of my time and I can sign up 24/7. I go to the scrap yard. Give them metal. They weight it and tell me how much it is worth. I accept deal. They need state id and the id number from the site I registered on. They are already logged into the site on their own computer (which requires at most a 10 year old pc with internet access) and enters in the registration number which returns my photo and official name. They check photo and name with state id and my own face and enter the dln which validates against the record to validate that the correct non fake physical id was looked at. They click a button that says log a new transaction. They fill in a short description of metal, the type, the weight, and what I am being paid. Click ok. Then they write out a check to the name the web page gave them and hand it over.
It would actually be quicker than filling out a paper log book by hand, known criminals can be barred from the service, and the police can figure out who stole all the wiring from a building very easily. In addition you can pass a law that says if a scrap yard knowingly fakes this validation or doesn't validate a transaction they get shut down. Very unobtrusive and it could do a lot to keep the industry honest.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088743 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:12:02 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088547 rahvin112 : Copper used to go for $1 a pound. It's over $3.50 a pound now. That's a 350% increase in price and 50lbs of copper is going to net you $175 bucks. That's enough for probably about 15 crack rocks. Where at the $1 price the same 50lbs would have got them $50. If you are desperate for $100 stealing scrap and selling it is a quick buck. Even steel and Iron now have values that make their theft meaningfull to someone that needs a few dollars to get high. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088547 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:32:25 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088314 rec9140 :

said by insomniac84 :
That's awesome. But not enough. People should have to register with the state to scrap metal via a webpage that links to dmv photos and information. And everything they turn in should be logged to the same online system by the scrap yard. Money should only be paid by a ....

You want some DNA with that too???!?? :uhh:

While the situation cuts close to home and gets my panties in a bunch I think your approach is a little over the top.
--
Ban all copyright, trademarks, and IP laws!//Lorem ipsum ei pro stet equidem labores, at enim animal expetenda nec. Ea vix argumentum dissentiunt, usu esse ridens ex.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088314 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:48:08 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088171 Dogfather : A friend of mine said someone stole the marquee sign in front of his housing tract.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088171 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:22:08 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088033 moonpuppy :

said by shdesigns

said by moonpuppy

:

Just like pawn shops, they don't care where the stuff comes from.

:uhh:

That is not what I have seen. They require an ID so they know who is bringing the stuff in.

That's what they say but I can tell you, they are less stringent on IDs then a bouncer at a bar. They busted a pawn shop around here for multiple violations and found a ton of stolen goods and a bunch of handguns taken in and NOT reported. Each handgun must be reported to see if they are stolen or not. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088033 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:01:28 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088012 moonpuppy :

said by Kearnstd

:

and some sure you want your tax dollars spent for this, because we surely know the yards wont fund it.

No, the yards will pay for it. Call it the price of doing business. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088012 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:57:32 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087995 Corehhi :

said by Dogfather

:

They should also have to run video surveillance showing what is being recycled.

We had some idiots steal a brand new set of bleachers. Alumium ones. The scrap place called the police and they are in jail now but how do they think they will get away with that? Also scrap prices aren't that high. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087995 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:55:19 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087908 shdesigns :

said by moonpuppy

:

Just like pawn shops, they don't care where the stuff comes from.

:uhh:

That is not what I have seen. They require an ID so they know who is bringing the stuff in.
--
Scott Henion

Embedded Systems Consultant, shenion on #ATU @irc.freenode.net
SHDesigns home]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087908 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:43:06 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087611 Dogfather : I have a small business and get TONS of unfunded mandates from local, State and Federal gov't.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087611 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:52:21 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087606 Kearnstd : and some sure you want your tax dollars spent for this, because we surely know the yards wont fund it.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087606 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:51:35 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087570 meister_sd : Need the first born too?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087570 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:44:36 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087554 jester121 : Yeah, if there's one thing to say about the scrap industry it's that they're on the cutting edge of technology. They'll be eager to spend money on this type of system to do law enforcement's job for them. :uhh: ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087554 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:42:25 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087409 insomniac84 :

said by tshirt

:

I got carded when I took in 2 old pellet stoves and a dishwasher. :uhh:

That's awesome. But not enough. People should have to register with the state to scrap metal via a webpage that links to dmv photos and information. And everything they turn in should be logged to the same online system by the scrap yard. Money should only be paid by a check in the name that matches the online record. The police need to be able to easily check scrap records and if someone is caught scrapping stolen metal, they should be blocked by the system from scrapping metal ever again. It's ridiculous when a whole tower can be cut up and scrapped and no one knows who did it. If weights were logged, it would be possible to see if one person scrapped metal across multiple scrap yards that equaled the weight of the tower or if a hand full of people together scrapped that much metal. Police would actually have a chance to catch these people via a few minutes of querying a database.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087409 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:14:11 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087174 Dogfather : They should also have to run video surveillance showing what is being recycled.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087174 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:28:11 EDT Re: Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087135 tshirt : They already do here, they photocopy your licence/ID before you get money for anything.
This largely because the state highway dept. has had over $1million in guardrails, signs, wiring (including some in operation) and light poles stolen is the first six months of this year.

I got carded when I took in 2 old pellet stoves and a dishwasher. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087135 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:20:36 EDT Time to regulate junk and scrap yards. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087085 moonpuppy : Just like pawn shops, they don't care where the stuff comes from.

:uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21087085 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:10:04 EDT