said by coxta :

I don't think Canada is going to be immune from this either.

said by Capitalist :

Which facts does your wife think I'm leaving out?

said by Bellundo :

It's common knowledge in Canada and like i said about 95 percent of Mississagua and 99 percent of Brampton is all bought with welfare money. Both will be ghost towns. A lot of banks are going to fail up here. The CIBC will go tits up. Five percent down will soon be fifty percent down.

said by AR :

My RE agent (kinda family friend) was telling me how there is widespread mortgage fraud primarily in 'sauga and Brampton where folks are offered fake salary letters for the purpose of obtaining a larger mortgage.

He believes these two suburbs will be hit.

said by Capitalist :

I bought a house with 40% down, no inspection and a declared income (to one of the big five banks) of zero dollars. No cosigner, no other assets offered as collateral. Prime minus 1%, 25 years. It will be free and clear in 21 months (more than 22 years ahead of schedule).

Your wife is wrong.

said by Bellundo :

It's common knowledge in Canada and like i said about 95 percent of Mississagua and 99 percent of Brampton is all bought with welfare money. Both will be ghost towns. A lot of banks are going to fail up here. The CIBC will go tits up. Five percent down will soon be fifty percent down.

said by coxta :

Pretty good income for welfare

Brampton median household income 2008 - $72,402

Missassiuga average family income 2000 - $80,381; 72% own their home.

»www.portraitsofpeel.ca/content/p···auga.pdf

»www.brampton.ca/census/bullentin8.pdf

said by Bellundo :

Since you live in BC i guess you've never heard of Mississagua and Brampton. Both cities are almost 100 percent bought with welfare cheques. Both cities will be ghost towns when the full brunt of this housing crash hits Canada.

said by Hydraglass :

So yes, with a good size down payment, you can buy a house with nothing more than a credit check and nothing else verified.

said by dirtyjeffer :

out of curiosity, if you have no income, how do you plan on paying off your house in 21 months...also, if you do plan on paying it off in 21 months, i hope you didn't do a 5 year amortization as the penalty to pay it off early will be fairly high.

said by Capitalist :

I bought a house with 40% down, no inspection and a declared income (to one of the big five banks) of zero dollars. No cosigner, no other assets offered as collateral. Prime minus 1%, 25 years. It will be free and clear in 21 months (more than 22 years ahead of schedule).

Your wife is wrong.

Note to self: andyb and happylurk have all the time in the world to come up with witty responses...and I'm paying for it

said by FaxCap :

My wife is a branch manager for one of our big 5 banks. She writes mortgages all week long she tells me there is no way in hell anyone on welfare would qualify for a mortgage.

said by Bellundo :

Since you live in BC i guess you've never heard of Mississagua and Brampton. Both cities are almost 100 percent bought with welfare cheques. Both cities will be ghost towns when the full brunt of this housing crash hits Canada.

said by Devanchya :

The Market hates uncertainty.

said by Bellundo :

Since you live in BC i guess you've never heard of Mississagua and Brampton. Both cities are almost 100 percent bought with welfare cheques. Both cities will be ghost towns when the full brunt of this housing crash hits Canada.

said by andyb :

ODSP is not welfare.I live on it.You have no idea.And yes we are allowed to buy houses.They must be in reason and they need to fall into the price range of renting for the mortgage.No they don't supply 5 percent down.

As I said before you don't have a fukin clue.You just dump everyone in the same boat.

said by Mark Z :

My ex ex bought a house on ODSP. Don't ask how or why as I do not know any specifics, only that her source of income is ODSP. Most likely someone in her family cosigned.

said by FaxCap :

That's absolute bull

FaxCap

said by Bellundo :

Just think of all the houses that were bought with welfare cheques and 40 year mortgages in southern Ontario.

said by StEC :

Nope not at all infact it's McCain that is taking all the heat on this have you seen the latest polls Obama is leading in all swing states now with a comfortable margin!

said by digitalfutur :

A classic case of the road to hell paved with good intentions.

said by capdjq :

What the above two So called "experts" ...

said by vue666 :

Obama and his involvement with Acorn may hinder his Presidential hopes...

said by vue666 :

The worry is our auto industry maybe next....

Carmakers wince as bailout fails
»www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar···01/rss21

said by Wolfie00 :

The last I saw, Canada's banking system was rated #2 in the world for safety and security by an international banking organization, second only to Switzerland's banking system. The U.S. banks were around #15, worse than Singapore but IIRC just ahead of India.

said by dirtyjeffer :

the lending institutions didn't care, they wanted to loan the money and make the interest from it...they only cared about themselves, and this is the mess they have got themselves into...Canada is far more strict in terms of lending, and this is exactly why.

said by AR :

I dunno Stewy, even I don't get the high kind of credit limits here that I have in the US.

said by elwoodblues :

We have VERY strict rules when it comes to writing mortgages and thats why we don't have the subprime mess.

said by elwoodblues :

The Canadian banks are taking a hit because they got greedy too and bought some of that tissue paper.

said by Styvas :

Go with what your wife's bank has. That's probably your safest bet. But listen to an expert and not to me. :)

said by digitalfutur :

Some partisan cheap shots today by the House Speaker in the U.S. resulted in the defeat of the bill for now.

said by happylurk :

In a bear market, CA$H is KING...

Liquidate before you lose any more, then feed on the bodies when the whirlwind has passed...

said by StEC :

No I was the one that said "The world is going into a depression....... RUN!"

I think a mod needs to change the title of this thread from "Do Not Panic: the Market is not crashing" to "Panic: the Market is crashing & burning"!

said by Stewy :

In June I told the wife that I wanted to take everything out and put it in Cash securities and she said I was crazy. Last night she said to never listed to here again :)

said by Mark Z :

and if you think so leave yours where it is and let me know how it works out for ya

said by StEC :

This is BAD!!! :o

said by Styvas :

You could technically just invest them in government backed instruments (e.g., T-Bills, bonds, etc.) and accomplish the same thing (since it's the same government who backs the CDIC) but there are still pros and cons to that approach as well. Under CDIC rules, joint GICs are insurable separately from inidividual GICs, so you don't necessarily have to divvy them up amonst different divisions but rather invest them in different "names", but depending on your bank, what you've suggested may be simpler (I know that your approach would have been super simple when I worked for TDCT).

said by Stewy :

As we face worldwide economic doom

This just in from CNN - "The next steps are unclear"

:huh:

said by Capitalist :

*shrugs*

said by FaxCap :

I moved money out of the stock market a year ago. I have 70% of my retirement money in a GIC. I am now worried enough that I am breaking the GIC into multiple GICs so they fit within the government insured $60,000 and into 4 different divisions of the bank I use. Just so I can cover my *ss.

I may get some flaming as to me yelling "The sky is falling" but it costs me nothing to make this move and could save my butt.

said by Stewy :

On the 24th Flaherty warning of worldwife financial meltdown
Now 2 days later on the 26th ...Harper is warning of serious consequences for the international economy.

Still there's no need to panic. :D

said by Stewy :

Isn't that the process now with this government? all anyone has to do is to look at the way Bill C-61 was implemented.

I don't call that a Government....

said by Devanchya :

the market is in "scared" mode. Most people are doing stupid things.

said by Stewy :

check this out and skip to about 1:17 if you want to see the an honest american politician with guts.
These are the people you need in power. :D

(youtube clip)

said by Stewy :

Here's what 300 square feet and $172,000 will get you in Toronto, no it's not a doghouse.

said by digitalfutur :

Would you be saying the same thing if someone other than Harper had said that?

said by Devanchya :

You can not use the small house price as a pointer of "the problem"

said by Stewy :

This simply is not acceptable.

said by Devanchya :

Only thing I have to say is "If we don't do it, how bad will it be for everyone".

said by Stewy :

Here's my plan, make the top %20 of the richest Americans pay for the bailout. Problem solved.

said by Devanchya :

I listen to Anon posters on financial advice less than I listen to anyone online for financial advice.

said by CigaR :

I thought capitalism was a great system; one that is regulated by market laws, one that does not require intervention from the government.

Buying out those assets will not solve the problem; it's wishful thinking.

said by Stewy :

"WASHINGTON – The Bush administration asked the U.S. Congress today for the power to buy $700 billion (all values U.S.) in toxic assets clogging the financial system and threatening the economy

said by capdjq :

Geez, what a stunning day. I made back, in one day, all the losses for the past week.

said by dirtyjeffer :

and IF you were a US citizen. ;)

said by vue666 :

Ron Paul would get my vote IF he ran in the US election...

said by Mashiki :

Doesn't help when other banks and lenders around the world are buying out defaulting lenders now. It makes people panic and do stupid things, if gold doesn't hit $1200 I'll be surprised.

said by Bellundo :

Hey in the last 25 years the DJIA from 1982 to 2007 has gone 14 fold from 1,000 to over 14,000.

said by Warez_Zealot :

My uncle was saying that the only reason China wanted the Olympics was to spend as much of their US dollars as possible without drawing attention..

said by Stewy :

now I'm re-investing in a plan called "Freedom 95"

Edit: Good God, IMF Head says Financial Crisis still lies ahead.

»biz.yahoo.com/rb/080917/gulf_union_imf.html

"The roots of the crisis are behind us, the roots being the fall in housing prices. The consequences for some financial institutions are still in front of us. We have to expect that there may be in the coming weeks and coming months other financial institutions with some problems," he said.

said by Bellundo :

The stock markets are still grossly overvalued and have 30 percent or more to fall.

said by mr weather :

Why is the US government even getting involved?

said by andyb :

I don't think I'd see goverment asking them to bail others out.

said by Stewy :

Goldman Sacks, Morgan Stanley don't look to good

said by Bellundo :

The stock markets are still grossly overvalued

said by macedon :

... we`ll see how this plays out

said by macedon :

i don't think we have hit the bottom yet, maybe next week...

said by Devanchya :

Flip a coin, see the answer :)

said by macedon :

not so sure if i should start buying this Wednesday or wait until after next Monday?

said by digitalfutur :

On a percentage basis today's loss is a bit less than half of the October 1987 drop for the same point loss.

BTW the U.S. is not in a recession, and neither is Canada. Low economic growth is not a recession.

In an effort to prop up giant insurer American International Group Inc., the Federal Reserve on Monday asked Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase to help make $70-$75 billion in loans available to the company, according to people familiar with the situation.

AIG itself made no public pronouncements about its plans, and nervous investors continued to hammer its share price. AIG's shares closed down 61% at $4.76 at 4 p.m. Monday. The insurer's stock has lost 90% of its value so far this year.

AIG has lost $18 billion over the last three quarters, largely due to losses linked to subprime mortgages.

To raise money, AIG in recent days has explored selling off valuable units and getting an infusion from private equity firms. The company, for instance, is looking into selling AIG Variable Annuity Life Insurance Company, which provides retirement services, according to a person familiar with the matter. An AIG spokesman declined to comment.

While private equity firms over the weekend such as TPG and Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. had been talking with AIG about possible capital infusions, at this point private equity firms would be more interested in buying specific AIG assets rather than contributing money to a capital infusion, according to people familiar with these firms' thinking.

said by Devanchya :

First: Do Not Panic
Second: Do Not Panic (Not even fake panic)

said by dirtyjeffer :

what about my Nortel stock? :(

said by dirtyjeffer :

thankfully, the conservatives are helping to bring/retain more jobs in ontario as the provincial liberals sit back and do nothing.

said by Robrr :

I fully expect a recession now that everything in this country is going to start struggling.

Ontario is still trying to get going and the resource sector seems to be falling hard. When I checked earlier today oil was at $96.04/barrel which isn't going to make the people out in Alberta very happy

said by Thane_Bitter :

Ha ha ha - use them for origami. :D

said by dirtyjeffer :

what about my Nortel stock? :(

The Bank of America(BAC) deal to buy Merrill Lynch (MER) is the first bit of unambiguously good news we've received all weekend. Of the four big independent investment banks, Lehman (LEH) is toast; Morgan Stanley (MS) and Goldman Sachs (GS) are safe; and Merrill (MER) is, well, not an independent investment bank any more. So in terms of investment bank failures, that's probably it, for the time being.

But Lehman alone is interconnected enough for its failure to start a nasty chain reaction and cause a systemic crisis all on its own. Everybody's trying their hardest to ensure that doesn't happen, since it's in nobody's best interest. But when will we know that disaster has been averted?

The answer, I'm afraid, is not particularly reassuring.

This isn't like Y2K, when if computers were still working at 1am, you knew that they'd survived the test. If AIG (AIG) hasn't collapsed after New York markets open and the broader stock market is down less than 5%, all that will mean is that there hasn't been a systemic meltdown yet. It's going to take a long time to liquidate Lehman and unwind all of its positions, and nobody has a clue how that's going to play out. Specifically, there might well be a levered-to-the-eyeballs multi-billion-dollar hedge fund or two with enormous Lehman Brothers counterparty risk, and if they start defaulting on their derivatives contracts, delayed contagion could spread very quickly indeed.

It's not just hedge funds, either, which could end up being the vector by which crisis is spread. It could be a big insurance company, or it could be a series of failures of small and medium-sized banks. Or it could come out of left field entirely: the "shadow banking system" is now so big and so global that for all we know a series of bad decisions by a mid-level technocrat in Kazakhstan could precipitate cataclysm across America and the world.

If we've learned one thing this weekend, it's that regulators are playing catch-up, and they've pretty much run out of ammunition. I have a lot of respect for the New York Fed, but ultimately it's a sub-national arm of a single country's central bank: it has neither the ability nor the mandate to keep an eye on all the possible risks that the world's financial system poses. And neither does any other regulator.

So as Monday rolls past, we'll all be keeping our fingers crossed that the inevitable volatility doesn't metastasize into genuine chaos. But even if we survive Monday, and Tuesday, and Wednesday, it'll be a good while yet until we're really out of the woods.