Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations in World of Warcraft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21114802 en Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:53:55 EDT Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:53:55 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173601 ErikVKing : I know I tout EQ1 a lot in here, but to me a good solution to this would be a PvP version of the AAs (Alternate Advancement points):

In EQ1 you could put points in the AA system and get extra stats, extra abilities, extra buffs, etc. for your time spent killing this or that mob, etc.

If they gave something of the sort to PvP players in WoW, you could see some more benefits over and above the full S4/Guardians/etc. and perhaps these people who "have nowhere to go" with their 1900+ ratings would stay there to earn the extra abilities, and perhaps even titles.

Also with the AAs, were LAAs (Leadership AAs) where a group leader could have a wide variety of extras they could do for their group. Give someone "lead" in a team and let them accrue extra goodies for your team and you could see some more fun in the Arenas.

IDK *what* would be the perfect solution, but with so many people complaining, why the hell hasn't Bliz pulled their heads out of their asses and seen the light?
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173601 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:59:43 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173457 Garbs : Interesting point. I'm sure that's true, too. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173457 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:37:18 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173436 Dropper : The only analogy I can apply to this situation so that those who exclusively PvE understand goes something like this.

You started Kara, you have your key, you successfully completed the pull timer on Attumen, you walked round the corner and found Kael waiting for you.

The skill level of a PvP player who earns full S4 is the equivalent of a PvE player who has their vials and moved on to successfully down Illidan.

If you were are someone who's done this, would you be satisfied doing nothing but lower Kara since last June? Because that's the equivalent of what these people are doing. The reasons I can only begin to guess, something in the mentality of a person more suited to playing FPS games I suppose. I still think part of it is when you peak at a rating of say 1900, know you will get no further upgrades and already have the best title you're likely to earn, you are left with the choice of facing top arena players for little or no reward or restarting and having fun beating on the easy to kill.

In other words if an absurd rating system didn't prevent them from completing their gear, they might decide earning more pts in the 1800s to get the next item was a better choice than stealing candy from babies because they have no more upgrades they can feasibly get.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173436 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:34:30 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173385 ErikVKing : I don't remember the thread I was ranting about this in, but the same crap happened to my friend and I in our arenas. We're still sitting at 1,031 in our team (haven't played in weeks - friend's tour was up, so now we're not on the same time schedule ... plus, we kind of gave up on the whole thing).

Our idea was to play 10 losses, get points for the gloves, BG for Guardian, maybe BG for some S2 while we got more Arena, and then reset to 1500 as we each got better pieces. This way maybe we'd have a fighting chance of climbing UP the ladder instead of falling down on our asses.

Maybe when I get back to the States, but that'll be WotLK time ... so who knows.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173385 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:26:36 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173288 ErikVKing : Agreed! They would just have to deduct honor if you die, add more if you get a kill, and even more if you did X% of the damage, or healed the guy that was whacking on the toon that was killed X%.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21173288 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:09:00 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21171842 Kearnstd : i think pvp would be more fun if stats got averaged across all players in the BG. less getting mowed by that WSG team in full S4 just because you are just starting to get parts of S2
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21171842 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:02:07 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21171838 Garbs : We lost close to 19 points, actually. It was absurd. The Lock on their team was in Full S4 gear.

It's disheartening, as my teammates and I love Arenas. I hope they come up with a solution that makes sense. So far, this has been nothing but another failed experiment.

Good points raised in this thread, thank you.


Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 PM. Please use the back door.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21171838 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:01:21 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21171672 drew : Welcome to Arena.

I wonder, how many points did you lose on that particular match? I would think the system should say 'these teams are significantly different in gear levels, so I'll only take 5 points from the poor team'
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Come play Mafia!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21171672 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:32:31 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21171284 DownLow : Yay for more wonderful arena matching last night...my 1550 team (at the time) gets matched against a newly formed team, with at least one player in full s4 gear!

/sigh
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21171284 Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:40:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169743 drew : I have high hopes for Lake Wintergrasp.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169743 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:26:14 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169482 Thaler : Heh...I'd definately have to agree. The more Blizzard has mucked with Arena over the course of TBC, the more borked the system has become. Almost every single change they've done to items/ratings/sytem that they've done for beginning/average players have come back to bite that playerbase in the ass. In fact, I'm almost worried at this point as to what they'll do to revamp Arena for beginning players. Maybe make every piece of gear require PR? Issue the title "Fresh Meat" to those not in full Arena gear?

Who knows. Maybe they'll actually fix something this time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169482 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:33:49 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169328 Dropper : The only way a rating system can even semi-work is if you were required to maintain it in order to use the gear you earned. Restart and you lose your advantage until you re-earn your team rating. That takes care of people buying pts to some extent as they would have to convince the team they bought to keep them. I suppose they could maintain their rent, but I reckon it would cut into the numbers a bit.

But overall any system can be manipulated and both rating systems they've tried have been proven to be a disaster to most players.

I don't care if I don't get upgrades until my skill earns them, I do care if I have to face people using bought upgrades with no more skill than me or people who should never be allowed back into my skill bracket after they've worked their way out of it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169328 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:01:20 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169326 Hazmat :
said by drew See Profile :

Wow, that's a great idea.

There's a 'vendor' in some PVP area. I go there and 'outfit' my character in what I'd like to see her in next time I go into an arena. I go and FIGHT in the arena in that gear, and am at the same level as the other guys gear wise, but since I suck at playing, I'm going to get stomped. That's fine, since the problem I have is lack of skill, not lack of skill and lack of gear.

The needed progression is then being able to buy that gear and use it in World PVP, PVE and BGs.

The point of the 'vendor' is to allow customization so that I can use spell haste gear if I want it. Or I can be spec'd resto and use boomkin gear. That's stupid, but it could be done!

Wow, A+ idea.
Drew, you went my idea one better.

Now, not only do you have a playing field that revolves around skill, not gear, but also you get to vary your gear to match spec and situations. It's a virtual closet for awesomness, that you can start bringing with you to sever wide as you progress and fine tune.

Good job :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169326 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:00:43 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169144 anon : Barring some OMFG awesome gameplay/PvP in WotLK, if the arena system is as borked as it is now, I'll just as soon stop playing than buy my way into functional gameplay. Sorry, but having to pay gold to work around a failed system just really isn't a solution in my eyes. That just treats the symptoms of a broken system, rather than have Blizzard actually fixing the damn thing.

Not everyone starts off as a PvP ace to the game. Trying and rewarding those who try is what the PvP reward system should be about. But, when there's no real viable means of progression, the insentive to even try and train/progress dies as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21169144 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:22:28 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168850 Dropper : Ok I will. I started a new team, 1500 rating, with two others. 2 of us had mostly S2, one was about 1/2 geared in pve blues / greens. We naturally expected to lose, this was for practice.

We met one team 4 times that had at least 2 people in full S4. Not partial S4 with S3 or S2 shoulders. Full S4. Weapons, shoulders, everything. After 2 matches SSPVP showed me they were at 1560, we were at 1470. We met them twice more.

We then started meeting teams with only 4/5 S4, and eventually won a couple against teams that should have been at our level, that is those still wearing S2 shoulders and no gear that didn't require a rating above 1600. We were below 1400 before we met a team that should have been in the 1500-1600 ratings.

Kudos to Blizzard who invented a system of guaranteeing the new customers they got over the summer would never get beyond a 1600 rating unless they were exceptional at pvp or had the gold to buy their way to a level playing field. So much for ratings stopping people from buying arena pts, it actually had the opposite effect.

This kind of imbalance never happened to me when I started playing in the middle of S2. It didn't really happen much in S3 either, because you could still reach 4/5 S3 and therefore fight your way tooth and nail to a 1700+ rating. But when nearly all gear required a rating the balance left the game completely. All it took was a few idiots to realise that restarting guaranteed some easy kills and the tradition of ganking new arena players was born.

edit

And buying my way to a level playing field is exactly what I'll be doing if I find the same crap at level 80. I get to start at the beginning of a season so I should get some rated gear on my own, but I refuse to accept a system of artificially lowering my rating below my skill level.

If I'm geared equally and lose this is fine. Even if it's because of class imbalance I can accept it. But if it's because I meet a rogue with 40-60 more agility than me, because his skill got him to a high rating and he decided he prefers an easy life in the 1500s, screw that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168850 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:15:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168516 Thaler : I've seen a S4 rogue w/ dual warglaives when I was 1450-1500 in the 2s. Top that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168516 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:14:31 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168368 DownLow :
said by drew See Profile :

That's the whole idea of the player matching, however it's been my experience that it's a whole lot of crap.

Last week I was trying to roll my face across my keyboard (I'm a resto druid) with a ret pally in 2s. When he wasn't being a complete moron, we did OK. However, I found that in the 1485-1560 area, we found several teams with S3 3/5 and like S4 2/5 with the S4 ranged/idol/whatever. Considering I'm rockin part S1 and part S2 with 1 S3 item and some PVE epics and my buddy has mostly S2 from honor, that seemed unfair.
You want unfair....how's this for an example of the broken PVP matching system.

Last week on my 3s, around the 1560's, matched up against a rogue, priest, warrior team (I think that is what they were). They destroyed us in literally 15 secs. Turns out according to the armory that the rogue has a 2200+ 2v2 PR and is like the 6th or 7th ranked arena team on their sever (he also was using the legendary warglave). I know this doesn't happen often, but really...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168368 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:43:37 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168286 drew : That's the whole idea of the player matching, however it's been my experience that it's a whole lot of crap.

Last week I was trying to roll my face across my keyboard (I'm a resto druid) with a ret pally in 2s. When he wasn't being a complete moron, we did OK. However, I found that in the 1485-1560 area, we found several teams with S3 3/5 and like S4 2/5 with the S4 ranged/idol/whatever. Considering I'm rockin part S1 and part S2 with 1 S3 item and some PVE epics and my buddy has mostly S2 from honor, that seemed unfair.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168286 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:30:06 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168266 brrock : Or if they want make it tiered where the lower tier gets crappier gear, but everyone in that tier has the same gear. For example you start in S1 but once you hit 1700 you can go for s2 gear, but only with others in S2 gear. This way the better players can play with better gears, but the gear is always on a even playing field. I am sure some people will whine and complain but those people can take the weapons they get from points and gank in the isle or whatever world pvp zone there is. I know it would make things more enjoyable for not just new players getting into pvp, but also character rerolls and alts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21168266 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:26:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167699 Thaler :
said by drew See Profile :

You can get your fill of undergeared nubs in World PVP (Lake Wintergrasp) and in BGs.
True, but that's not what opponents of that idea will see. Grinding new/undergeared players into the dirt has been a long running theme in all MMORPG PvP. It'd take one hell of a revolution to offset the core base of thinking.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167699 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:53:10 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167610 drew : I disagree.

You can get your fill of undergeared nubs in World PVP (Lake Wintergrasp) and in BGs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167610 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:40:50 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167601 drew : The PVP system is a wreck. I'm curious about Wintergrasp, however I have not taken the time to read up on it. I feel that getting TOO much Beta information would lead me to do one of two things 1) not want to play the expansion 2) give me the bad case of the 'gimme nows']]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167601 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:39:55 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167579 Thaler : It kinda runs counter to the principles of MMORPGs: gear up so you can beat the %*@# outta the undergeared nubs. It's a great idea in the sense of keeping Arenas actually compeditive, but it'll never happen. The same people who defend the failed implimentation of Personal Ratings (ie. "gear doesn't matter") will be the same people QQing that they don't get to overgear & trainwreck beginners in Arena.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167579 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:36:12 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167554 Dropper : If the rumor about all pvp gear requiring a rating is true, then they've broken pvp permanently. They've basically taken away the only element of the game that allowed casual solo players and small guilds to continue playing at max level.

And they've solved nothing. People will continue to restart and artificially push players into low brackets, a never ending spiral downwards so that players that normally got 1550-1600 ratings in S1 - S3 are now getting 1300-1400 ratings and lower. Which in turn will do two things. Greatly increase the number of people buying a rating and greatly increase the number of people leaving the game for one that offers casual pvp and rewards for everyone.

Welfares were never a huge problem. They work for easy heroics and kara but as soon as you hit the harder raids they were insufficient. That alone did more to check the progression of welfare artists than any rating requirement. The only people that had a problem with welfares were the few that mistakenly believe seeing a player in epic pvp gear somehow devalues the pve drops they own. Even if on the surface your pve drops appear to have lower stats in terms of dps or healing, the supporting stats for mana or hit rating or whatever are what will take you further than anyone in so-called superior pvp gear.

No guild I've ever heard of would allow a person in nothing but arena gear to participate in a raid past Gruul and Magtheridon. You simply won't put out enough damage or healing when your mana runs out or you miss too many times.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167554 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:32:02 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167102 drew : Wow, that's a great idea.

There's a 'vendor' in some PVP area. I go there and 'outfit' my character in what I'd like to see her in next time I go into an arena. I go and FIGHT in the arena in that gear, and am at the same level as the other guys gear wise, but since I suck at playing, I'm going to get stomped. That's fine, since the problem I have is lack of skill, not lack of skill and lack of gear.

The needed progression is then being able to buy that gear and use it in World PVP, PVE and BGs.

The point of the 'vendor' is to allow customization so that I can use spell haste gear if I want it. Or I can be spec'd resto and use boomkin gear. That's stupid, but it could be done!

Wow, A+ idea.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167102 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:15:39 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167023 Hazmat : I have always thought that the answer to PvP, in BGs or Arenas, was to implement something like what happens whe you are testing a new patch - your alt of choice gets copied over, BUT, they appear with the top-of-the-line gear for your class and spec.

That puts everybody in the same page with respect to gear, so only skill (and luck, that always counts!) is relevant.

When you leave the battle, you leave your goodies behind. And, as you accumulate honor points, you get to spend them on the very same gear, which you now get to use in your regular PvE or PvP realms.

And as to the always popular, n00b-can't-lern-2-play scenarios, no matter what your gear, if you do not know what to do, you will get owned. Period.

And, the more you know, the more honor you earn, etc., etc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21167023 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:04:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21166789 Thaler : They really should add some kind of "Slaughterhouse" title after some ungodly number of honorable kills. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21166789 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:23:16 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165973 drew : You need progression in a MMOG.

Progression of 'Hey, I've killed 12,394 players' sucks. You need something, and gear is good. If you make the entire game gear-centric, then you end up with a problem though.

That being said, I couldn't care less about PVP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165973 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:50:54 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165954 Kearnstd : PVE is why i play WoW.

MMORPG pvp is also about gear whoring, someone in Gamex's version of quest blues is going to get owned by someone in whatever the version of top rank pvp gear is.

IMO if you want real pvp, we need an MMOFPS that doesnt suck. sadly we can never have Planetside beta again.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165954 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:47:41 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165789 JIGA : This is why WoW fails, it's to gear dependant. Gear whoring = boring. Then you get the elitist pricks that want you to be overgeared for crap heroic content. Sucks for the casual players. Semper Fi fuck the other guy. I just love the attitudes in games these days, makes me wish I could reach through the screen and strangle the asshole on the other end.

PVE = lose and WoW is a PVE game at it's heart. Thank goodness a better game has came out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165789 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:08:23 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165448 Don69Fire : i never played EQ or any other online games before i started WoW. sounds like if i would have though, i would have gave up on it really fast. lol. i did play all the warcraft games though. lol..... i still have all my CDs....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165448 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:21:09 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165124 ErikVKing : Oh and I forgot to add on my post above: If you ran back to your corpse and looted it you lost the full "x" percentage of your XP. I forget the ratio, but I lost max level a few times with a handful of deaths because I was putting points into AAs too much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165124 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:32:24 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165115 ErikVKing : Like PITA BREAD!? I crack myself up!

But nah, EQ was great! Hell, I played it for 6 years, so it couldn't have been all bad. ;o)

The only reason I left EQ at all was because

A. Most everyone I knew IRL was playing WoW, so it was much more of a good time to play a game while sitting next to someone I knew than it was to play with someone you knew via the game only. Don't get me wrong, seeing names/old screenies/etc. of former EQ buddies truly does bring a catch to my throat, but RL friends are more enjoyable to play the game with. All of my guildies in EQ were fantastic people (at least in game, in emails, on forums, etc.) and I miss them all dearly, just not so dearly as I would my RL friends.
B. Also, most of my EQ buddies went to WoW so at that time there wasn't much fun anyhow.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165115 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:26:41 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165097 drew : Sounds like a huge PITA.

Though I suppose I'd reckon that everything in EQ was a PITA.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165097 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:10:22 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165089 ErikVKing : EQ was a bitch like that with the XP loss. The best you could do was hope for a 4% loss (or maybe it was 3%, I forget) from someone high enough in level and that had a 96%/97% rez and was in the same zone as your body. Or else you had to run back to your body, completely nekkid! To top all that fun off, if you died in the middle of a bunch of mobs, you had to find someone to drag your corpse out of the aggro range! It was funny to see your corpse hopping all over the place with someone towing it around. The bad thing was when you /consented someone to drag it away, you had to hope they weren't an asshole that would take it to the other end of the zone or something. Oh how that sucked.

I was lucky enough on my Druid to have a camouflage and flight/speed increase if I had to get my body, but even then there were zones where you couldn't fly and many mobs that saw right through even the best of camo. I was also fortunate enough to be able to port people to most any zone in the game, give us all a group cammo, and give us a flight spell which made it easier to find someone to rez since they didn't have to traipse all over the place to get to my body.

One of the expansions before I left allowed you to buy a reagent and summon your body, but unless you were rich it wasn't an option, and unless you had cash in your bank you had to borrow until you got your body back (your platinum etc. was all stored on your body). Even when you got your body back you had to be careful not to loot all your gear or you couldn't get a rez, and you also had to find someone to give you that rez (hoping you could find a Pally/Priest with a max rez), and likely tip them in the process.
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"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165089 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:06:13 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165050 ErikVKing :
said by kywirelessgu See Profile :

And I'm not just saying purple > blue. I'm not gonna invite someone in mostly s1 either.
This is to laugh at! My Hunter is still running around in mainly S1 gears, and some Kara gears (mostly in S1/crit gear because I've found it the best set of my gears for farming, and since when I'm not farming I'm likely PvPing when I play him). I've consistently out-dps'ed and out-played T5+ geared locks etc. because I know how to play my class well.

Just because someone doesn't have a full set of PvE gear on doesn't make or break them as far as their being an asset to the group, it's all in how well they play.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21165050 Thu, 25 Sep 2008 01:50:12 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21161175 Dropper :
said by badtrip See Profile :

Your main has a blue trinket. Under choad's rules, you would not be able to run Heroic Shattered Halls with him even though your main outgears his handily.
Blue trinkets heh. There are blue trinkets that kick the ass out of many epics - their item levels will even reflect this, and it simply shows that some people don't know anything about classes other than their own main class.

It warms my heart to know that every once in a while, snobbish players will pickup people that paid for T6, paid for a T6-geared player or were eventually the cause of their guild's inability to progress past Winterchill.

--edit--

And anyone that requires over 1500 plus healing for any heroic is completely crap. Zero skill players perhaps, but I'm not sure even T6 can make up for the lack of ability if you need that much healing. My question would be how on earth did you manage to get picked for even T5 raids if your ability is so low that you require more than Kara plus healing for any heroic. I've done heroic SH with 30 minutes left on the timer, and none of my guild had a single piece of T6.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21161175 Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:13:00 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21161088 Gork : Dodge See Profile
I think your approach is a fair happy medium.

To others, I do believe it is unrealistic to wade through the lfg pool and try to find people who are similarly geared if you are just starting heroics. I also find it utterly ridiculous to make judgments on a player's ability and gear just because of the color of their gear. When I'm being asked to ot kara by people who have grouped with me and know how I play, even though I'm in all blues save for one purple, that shows how riciculous these standards are. And in the meantime? These people have lost a competent tank because I'll just level my alts after being tired of being denied entry into groups. And though dps is a dime a dozen, I won't group with them on my main in the future. Nor will I stay in a group they are a member of on my healer.

To join a group and wipe twice in the first few pulls? Different story. I'd find no fault with someone saying, "Sorry all, I don't feel comfortable with this group's ability" before leaving the group. But to simply wave someone off before you even know anything about them other than they aren't epicc'd out? That's just silliness to me.

EDIT:
Added two paragraphs. lol]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21161088 Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:00:44 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21157451 Thaler :
said by Dodge See Profile :

This is hillarious. First I want to take an opportunity to add some WOW forum spirit into this thread - 1300 arena rating, N00B!!!!
Heh, even that can be deceptive.

With the state of Arena rerollers/griefers, I'm really none too thrilled trying to bust my ass in 2v2 or 3v3. My character's only arena "rating" comes from a 5v5 team I remake every week, but just /dance for 10 losses a week. ~310 points, every week, just for a handful of gold I can make up by doing that day's dailies. Woo.

But yeah, as much as I'm missing out on the potential fun mechanics of playing in arena, it's current system is borked, and I'm more than happy taking the rewards I can into the more enjoyable content of World PvP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21157451 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:49:17 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21157207 Dodge :
said by kywirelessgu See Profile :

I urge you all to go start up some heroic groups and just invite anyone that offers. Eventually you're gonna get burned and wipe repeatedly for some stupid reason and you'll start to rethink your open door policy.
I did plenty of heroics with an open door policy. Being a tank I get to command the entire instance, and if someone is doing stupid shit I will tell them to stop, or if they don't know better I will explain what they are doing wrong. If they continue to do the same crap I would kick them out of the group or tell the group leader that I am going to leave if this continues (I make this policy known before the run, so if people are planning to do stupid shit they can leave). The only time gear mattered to me is my own - meaning can I tank this, and the healers - can they heal me through it. DPS gear in heroics does not matter to me at all (assuming its not level 40 greens, or a warlock decked out in healing gear) as long as they are putting up a good effort for their gear, not splitting DPS and not AFKing.

Since my toon is on a pretty progressed server you can buy run-throughs through everything if you have enough gold(except for glaves, noone is selling that), so I've seen T6 people who can't outdps green/blues, I've seen the same idiots wipe in kara repeatedly.

So just because someone's gear sucks does not mean they do and just because someone has T6 does not mean they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21157207 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:12:53 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155955 kywirelessgu :
said by Dodge See Profile :

This is hillarious. First I want to take an opportunity to add some WOW forum spirit into this thread - 1300 arena rating, N00B!!!!

Ok now that we got that out of the way. Judging from your gear you really need to cut down on the elitist attitude. Transfer to one of the old/progressed servers and you are going to be considered a scrub that noone wants to take with them.
I am really bad at arena, probably doesn't help I'm a raiding BM hunter, but its nice to get a few points every week.

I agree, I'm not overly geared, I never have even said I was any good (I'm a BM hunter, I press 1 button). The difference in your argument is, even if I went to a progressed server and got snubbed on a heroic invite I'm not going to start crying about it, you just gotta know when to move on and find another group.

I urge you all to go start up some heroic groups and just invite anyone that offers. Eventually you're gonna get burned and wipe repeatedly for some stupid reason and you'll start to rethink your open door policy.

And I don't really think there is too much of a gear curve. There's always going to be new players and alts. I recently got a druid to 70 and ran all the lowbie instances (underbog, ramparts, etc.) with no problems. Sometimes I'd spend a little while in LFG, but there was plenty of questing to do in the meantime.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155955 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:31:57 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155901 drew : The whole mechanic is busted.

This problem is never going to be solved by Blizzard, as the game is based entirely around gear. Gear is the idol of WoW. Everything you do, you do for gear.

To rest the 'gear gap' the add levels. They could put out more expansions that add levels to the cap more often, however the quality would go down and we'd start paying for Content Patches.

Also, I like being able to sit comfortably at a level and have some meaningful progression, where as an expansion every 12 months would throw that out the window.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155901 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:23:45 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155878 Dodge : This is hillarious. First I want to take an opportunity to add some WOW forum spirit into this thread - 1300 arena rating, N00B!!!!

Ok now that we got that out of the way. Judging from your gear you really need to cut down on the elitist attitude. Transfer to one of the old/progressed servers and you are going to be considered a scrub that noone wants to take with them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155878 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:19:40 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155864 drew :
said by badtrip See Profile :

The observation is that WoW has a bad gameplay mechanic that makes the game less fun for people who are playing an end game toon that is behind the server's gear curve.
This.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155864 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:16:33 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155698 badtrip : Your main has a blue trinket. Under choad's rules, you would not be able to run Heroic Shattered Halls with him even though your main outgears his handily.

Nobody is QQing, an observation was stated and agreed with. The observation is that WoW has a bad gameplay mechanic that makes the game less fun for people who are playing an end game toon that is behind the server's gear curve.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155698 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:43:28 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155458 kywirelessgu : »www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···=Pathias - Main
»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···Panthias - Old main, I took a break and another prot pally took my spot :( I think I'm in my brewfest boss tanking gear :D

I've got too many guildies and friends to run heroics with scrubs. I'm not being a dick to anyone, I'm not inviting people to groups and then kicking them out and calling them names as they leave, I just say no thanks and don't invite them. If they want to start QQ'in about how I won't invite them I'll just ignore them.

If I want to run some charity heroic I have more than enough guildies with alts to do so.

Just run instances with people at your gear level and there won't be any problems. You're going to run into people that think they know your class better than you, but you really don't want to group with those people anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21155458 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:53:11 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154926 badtrip :
said by drew See Profile :

Ah, then it was just mistakenly ambiguously worded.

Not getting XP while dead isn't a "loss" of XP. It's just a loss of opportunity.
I don't make mistakes :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154926 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:03:08 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154888 drew : Ah, then it was just mistakenly worded.

Not getting XP while dead isn't a "loss" of XP. It's just a loss of opportunity.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154888 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:56:09 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154874 badtrip :
said by drew See Profile :

The penalty for dying is a loss of XP?

Had enough of that shit in FFXII. If that's true (which I have no reason to believe otherwise) then I'll never play WAR.
You never lose xp, you just dont get to partake in the steady stream of xp and reknown that flows during a Scenario (BG) while you are dead and waiting to respawn.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154874 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:53:44 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154868 badtrip :
said by drew See Profile :

This is just like the proverbial "I give a couple cans of creamed corn from the back of my cupboard every year around Thanksgiving."

All it really does is serve to make you feel better about being a dick the rest of the time.

Congrats!
Hey, he's doing the whole server population a favor. He's generously giving 10 to 20 minutes of his playtime daily so that other players can benefit from his great gear. It's like trickle down economics except with gear.

I wonder if he would be kind enough to link his toons so that we may also benefit from his gear by being able to mouseover it and read the stats.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154868 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:51:55 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154850 drew : The penalty for dying is a loss of XP?

Had enough of that shit in FFXII. If that's true (which I have no reason to believe otherwise) then I'll never play WAR.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154850 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:49:08 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154832 badtrip :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

I was looking at WAR last night. The trailer for it was amazing and made me want to play the game just by itself. How is the gameplay so far on it?
Warhammer is awesome. To be honest, I haven't really done to much questing so I can't speak for the PvE aspects too much but the PvP is great. I have leveled a Shadow Warrior to 17 almost purely by doing public quests and RvR.

PvP in WAR is less like quake3/WoW were you try to kill as fast as possible and more like UT where you try to stay alive and kill as much as possible (if that makes sense). In WoW/Q3 there is no real penalty for dying other than a short run back to the action. In WAR, the penalty for dying is a loss of XP and Reknown, it's much better to disengage than to lose a fight.

However, back to the topic. In guild chat, almost all discussion is about gear so I'm inclined to say that WoW's gear whore mentality has bled over a bit. And at this early stage I cannot tell if Warhammer will be an overly gear dependent game like WoW is although I'm sure it will be in endgame. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154832 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:46:27 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154795 drew : This is just like the proverbial "I give a couple cans of creamed corn from the back of my cupboard every year around Thanksgiving."

All it really does is serve to make you feel better about being a dick the rest of the time.

Congrats!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154795 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:40:56 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154490 kywirelessgu :
said by Thaler See Profile :

• Now that I'm geared, I don't give two *@#$s about other players.
Its not that I don't care about other players, I just don't care that much about heroics, so I can afford to wait around till I got a group that is going to breeze through it.

I'm the king of quest helping. If I see someone in general chat trying to do a group quest or something I'm always on top of it.

My helpfullness comes in small spurts, I can handle 10-20 minutes helping some random person out with a group quest, but my charity ends there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21154490 Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:39:37 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21152922 Kearnstd :
said by Thaler See Profile :

Basically, all I hear are the same things:

• I geared up in greens/blues. (Everyone had to, or buy from eBay)
• Now that I'm geared, I don't give two *@#$s about other players.

It's a problem with the player base and maturity of the content, really. There's no reason for others to "go out on a limb" with undergeared players, and most players are beyond needing the gear from "old" 5-man content. So, the new WoW startups get screwed, simple as that.

It's just funny. As much as Blizzard loves to tote that their decisions are made to allow new players an ability to "join in", there isn't much foundation established to do so. (well, other than the botched PvP for PvE system we have now)
i think this is why MMOs require expansions, people just hitting 70 now really cant match up in gear. but an expansion adding 10 more levels makes everybody go through a gear reboot. im in really nice gear(by my standards »www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···&n=Filan) however i know i will probally be in a total splatterfest of odd stuff by 80.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21152922 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:50:20 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21152123 Thaler : Basically, all I hear are the same things:

• I geared up in greens/blues. (Everyone had to, or buy from eBay)
• Now that I'm geared, I don't give two *@#$s about other players.

It's a problem with the player base and maturity of the content, really. There's no reason for others to "go out on a limb" with undergeared players, and most players are beyond needing the gear from "old" 5-man content. So, the new WoW startups get screwed, simple as that.

It's just funny. As much as Blizzard loves to tote that their decisions are made to allow new players an ability to "join in", there isn't much foundation established to do so. (well, other than the botched PvP for PvE system we have now)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21152123 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:42:31 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151993 kywirelessgu : I pugged with other poorly geared people or guildies. Guildies definatly get some slack because most times its an alt of a competent raider. If I know beforehand you're an alt of a raider even non-guildy then I'll cut some slack. And I'm not just saying purple > blue. I'm not gonna invite someone in mostly s1 either.

And only my first character was running heroics when BC was still fresh. I played that huntard forever before I even considered an alt. I'm a post-bc baby though :D I think I bought the game about a month before the first expansion was released. I wasn't even 60 yet.

As much of a pain as it was to collect heroic keys for revered, it was kind of nice not seeing the really fresh 70's trying to run heroics. It would be better if they just made that type of thing account based.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151993 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:15:46 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151991 chaud : If I were to venture a guess, he did it when everyone else had awful gear, and blues were the norm.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151991 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:15:38 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151900 Gork :
said by kywirelessgu See Profile :
If you're wearing more than a few blues and/or any greens you're not getting an invite.
Hey, curious about something... How'd you get your toon into mainly purples so you'd be allowed to run heroics?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151900 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:58:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151853 Thaler :
said by kywirelessgu See Profile :

I don't even need to see the stats. If you're wearing more than a few blues and/or any greens you're not getting an invite.
I'd definately boot someone with greens (save for trinket slots, almost all armor has *some* craftable/quest blue for that area), but for someone having a few blues? Pretty trivial, especially when it comes to the trinket slot.

I especially find it extremely silly when this "purples = better player" logic makes people pick lower-quality geared players (ie. season 1) over those who're better geared for the situation. Again, the Fel Leather set comes to mind. Those blues are *better* than the S1/2 slots for 2/3 of its pieces (legs and feet, I believe), but somehow, any kind of purples makes the character come off as "more geared".

But yeah, as others have said, expansion is 2 months away. Nobody's getting bent outta shape over this, but it's pretty apparent that if something isn't done in WotLK to address this, you'll inevitably still have the same problems at level 80.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151853 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:49:35 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151280 drew : A pug Mags was doing that exactly for about half an hour. Heh..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151280 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:54:29 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151162 kywirelessgu : Put the ones you like and have good runs with in your friends list. Ask them to put you in their friends list. Eventually you'll have a nice network of tanks and healers.

Of course the best thing you can do is be good. A good reputation can go a long way.

I'm on tanaris horde. Low-Med pop server with a 2:1 ally/horde ratio. LFG is always empty, but because of my reputation as a good tank I can simply ask in other guild chats (through friends) for a healer. After that DPS is no issue whatsoever, mainly because people like to run with no CC :D

My hunter is actually now my main, but just about anyone I'd be willing to take to a heroic knows about my prot pally so there again, even as a huntard, my reputation helps me immensly in finding groups.

I'm not saying you have to be in a raiding guild, but if you're not in a guild with more than 10 active members, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. There are plenty of social/heroic/kara guilds out there that I'm sure would be happy to recruit you.

And my last bit of advice is find a consistent heroic group. When I was still worried about gear on my pally I had a dedicated shattered halls group. Everday during the work week after I got off work we'd have the same 3-4 people everyday. 5 badges in under an hour. Post on your realms forums and try and track down at least a tank, if not a few DPS that have similiar schedules to yours so you have some people you can count on and playstyles you know.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21151162 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:33:08 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150954 drew : Creating groups works out... sometimes.

It all depends on how many tanks feel like running a heroic or something that day.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150954 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:55:55 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150692 kywirelessgu : I've got plenty of mats to grind while I wait, and I'm already geared so its not a huge deal if I don't even go.

I do understand where you're coming from, I just don't think its worth getting upset about. Just make your own group and you won't have any worries. You're a healer, finding groups should be no problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150692 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:11:49 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150630 drew : I find it humorous that the time you're wanting to save is likely lost by demanding the attendance of someone who needs nothing from the instance but badges.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150630 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:03:06 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150245 kywirelessgu : I don't even need to see the stats. If you're wearing more than a few blues and/or any greens you're not getting an invite.

I've got 2 raid geared 70's and 2 pvp 70's. I've ran every heroic many, many times. None of them are worth wiping in.

This is especially true since I raid. A majority of my wow time is taken up for raiding, so all my spare time I need to squeeze in as much pvp, herbing/mining, and heroics in as little time as possible.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150245 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:54:31 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150196 drew : Sure, it's your $15. However, spending 4 hours LFG because you won't 'risk' it with a 1500+ healing druid for a heroic is crazy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150196 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:46:10 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150156 kywirelessgu : I think my first post did a very good job of describing my feeling on the topic. Do you have anything worth saying regarding it or do you want to just continue using the "wow forums" excuse? Debate or discuss, don't get upset because I don't agree with you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150156 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:39:35 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150144 drew : Buahaha. Not kicked, never invited.

But in all seriousness, get that WoW forums bullshit out of here. It's not welcome.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150144 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:37:55 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150133 kywirelessgu :
said by drew See Profile :

Oh man, straight from the WoW Forums to my monitor.

Thanks for your enlightening post.

Not.
Says the guy QQ'ing about getting kicked from a PUG.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150133 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:36:39 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150123 drew : Oh man, straight from the WoW Forums to my monitor.

Thanks for your enlightening post.

Not.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150123 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:35:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150091 kywirelessgu : Chaud, great posts. I'm totally with you.

I pay my $15 a month, I'll play how I want within the rules provided by blizzard. If I'd rather wait in LFG for 4 hours instead of taking a terribad then its my choice. Sure in some cases my judgement of a persons abilities based on their gear, guild, or spec might be false, but in a majority of cases its not. Why take the risk of wiping in a heroic when you don't need to?

Some group leaders are asshats that don't know better. In these cases you don't want to be in their group anyway. The armory lookup works both ways.

Call me an elitist, I just don't have time for suck people. You may be the most skilled player ever in your shitty blues, but I'm not going to risk wasting my time on that slim possibility. I'm going to take the best geared people I can find to knock it out as fast as possible. If that means waiting around longer then I'll go run an AV or do dailies while I wait.

I just don't pug unless its absolutely necessary (i.e. never), but on the slim chance I take one of my mains into a heroic, if we wipe more than once due to stupidity, I'm hearthing.

I just can't believe you actually got upset enough to post here about it. QQ I mean, unless you just started playing wow yesterday you should already know a majority of the people on this game are absolutely worthless, why get all worked up because some noob booted you? I'm guessing that group failed anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21150091 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:29:12 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21149488 drew : Interestingly enough, I'm sitting at 1637 healing and I have no earthly idea how. I only got the loot pinata healing trinket that's just like Essence of the Martyr.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21149488 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:31:52 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21148813 Jakiel00 :
said by badtrip See Profile :

said by drew See Profile :

The whole system is messed up. fortunately we don't have to worry about it for long.
I agree. WoW has really gone down the shitter as far as player base goes. Gork's tank experience is mine exactly except with a prot pally. It really reminds me of the decline in the player base in Warcraft 3 online.

I have traded WoW for WAR. I'ts much better...at the moment.
I was looking at WAR last night. The trailer for it was amazing and made me want to play the game just by itself. How is the gameplay so far on it? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21148813 Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:15:10 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21145980 drew : someone already tried to pull that on me.

'How much +healing do you have?'

'Enough'

'How much?'

'1500'

'Oh man, that's a little low'

'It's a f-ing seasonal boss. If we wipe due to my healing, I'll give you 25g'

'I guess that'll work'

and imagine that, the tank was in greens and blues with the SSO shield and neck piece. I ended each one of the fights with 85-90% mana and no one even close to dying.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21145980 Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:02:47 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21145653 Thaler : Dear God, if people need to overgear for the Brewfest Boss...I'm going to need to physically hurt some players.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21145653 Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:40:44 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21145268 drew : I have toyed with the idea of playing a different MMO however I don't feel like I have the time to really get the most out of it.

I was just finishing up a Kara run with some totally overgeared players and got my badges for the week. I also got contacted by a ret pally who I did 2s with. We had a rough start, but I think we can probably reach 1650 or so until I get more resil and flesh out my arena set. I might need to spec FOTY druid with feral charge et al, however that's a possibility.

So things are certainly looking up.
--
Come play Mafia!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21145268 Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:04:57 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21144737 badtrip :
said by drew See Profile :

The whole system is messed up. fortunately we don't have to worry about it for long.
I agree. WoW has really gone down the shitter as far as player base goes. Gork's tank experience is mine exactly except with a prot pally. It really reminds me of the decline in the player base in Warcraft 3 online.

I have traded WoW for WAR. I'ts much better...at the moment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21144737 Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:25:54 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21143193 Kearnstd : if i got asked about my spelldamage id simply say enough to get the job done with a quick clean kill.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21143193 Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:41:44 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21142285 quatra : I would love to see some sort of bonus reward for groups completing instances with low gear levels. Of course that would leave you needing a LOT more bag space to save your old blue 70 dungeon sets - but heroics were a lot more fun when everyone was still in blues. Or maybe a super-heroic mode that does require full t5+ epics to complete. Or maybe I should just get a life. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21142285 Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:11:11 EDT Re: Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21142244 drew : The whole system is messed up. fortunately we don't have to worry about it for long.
--
Come play Mafia!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21142244 Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:00:43 EDT Warning: Back on topic... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21142162 Gork : I'm completely with the OP on this subject. First, how is anyone supposed to obtain purples if they're not allowed into any heroic groups? "We're not going to allow you to run because you have no epics, but we're not going to allow you to get epics." I'm tired of the whole thing. The last several times I've been asked "spell dmg?" when I've offered to join a group "lfm dps" with my lock I've just replied with "nevermind." I'm only kara geared, but it's more than enough for any heroic. I've slowed way down on grouping because of this latest trend and am concentrating on alts again.

I spent considerable time (and gp) with my bear tank gearing him up for heroics because I wanted the epic flight form. (He has it now btw, woot and things.) He's in the best blues for STARTING tanking heroics. He does have the epic tank weapon from Cenarion though. Anyway, he's run hMech, hSethekk, hArc and a few others with no problems. My brother's guild needed a tank at one point for a heroic and has since tried to get him to off tank in Kara. People are always looking for tanks on my server, but he was denied entry into a hSP the other day because his AP rating is too low? So, am I the undergeared noob or are these idiots showing they don't know what the heck these stats they're praying to mean?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21142162 Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:42:06 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21141501 Tehuno : as much as i dont like the elitist attitude( we run charity pugs on our server) , chaud is completely correct about gurubashi, it was my home server for a long time, and now its completely terrible for english speaking only players.

pre bc we had a top 60 us guild, and probably 15 progression guilds in bwl +. now there is only a smattering of progression guilds, 90% are brazilian.

as to someone that said working with asians in ff worked out good, well the asians you played with were likely competent, and the language barrier wasnt as big an issue because of that.

Not the case with guru, most of the brazilians are terrible, and cant speak the language. Not worth the time grouping with them except rare exceptions, but there will always be exceptions with stereotypes. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21141501 Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:21:10 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21132607 Dropper : My own 2 cents is there isn't a single heroic that requires T6 to complete it, and complete it easily. There are maybe 6 that require T4 gear and T5 experience to avoid unnecessary wipes (Arc, SH, COT 1 & 2, Mana Tombs and SL), the rest can be done in a mix of kara level epics and blues if you're good.

Tell me they can't and as far as I'm concerned you have zero skill. Tell me they will be tough and you'll have a few wipes and I'll concede the point.

No the reason as far as I can see that people demand T4+ (or even higher as the original poster mentioned) is that it ought to guarantee an easy, quick run. As most people are in it for the badges, that makes sense. Most of the gear they want costs between 100-150 badges, so churning them out in quick succession is the order of the day. Doing heroics just for gold is a bit retarded, you can do every SSO daily in less time than most heroics. Including trash drops that can total 300-400g if you're lucky.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21132607 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:22:46 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21123648 Kevlar : Drew, Badtrip et, al. Welcome to my opinion of Chaud.

Been pretty much thinking that since I read his first, snobbish elitist post way back when trolling.

Hope you enjoy your membership to this rather overpopulated club. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21123648 Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:48:26 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21121111 drew : Since I'm not going to get into a raiding guild with my time constraints, especially ~2 months before the expansion.

I've already detailed what the problem is, and why I find it utterly ridiculous.

You don't play, yet you feel the need to troll the forums and act holier-than-thou.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21121111 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:46:37 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21121096 thrillhaus :
said by Dodge See Profile :

I would just like to congratulate everyone participating in the last 3 pages of this thread for turning BBR into official WoW forums. Now I know Aquablaze is probably bored at work as per his other posts in other threads and is just itching for an argument to brighten his day :), but what about the rest of you?
Seriously. I checked this thread before going to 2 classes. Come back, and it's ballooned to this.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21121096 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:44:45 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21121073 chaud : Because I have no desire to leave my realm, as I no longer really play.

Why don't you just go get T6, so you can't complain anymore!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21121073 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:38:27 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21121056 drew : Or simply pay the $25 if it's so horrible.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21121056 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:35:07 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120993 WoWjunky : Rofl, you mean the brazilians have the internet? Good for them! I thought they were all to busy being sweaty and greasy for computer games. But I guess I spend most of my time being fat and ugly and lonely but still manage to play a bit of WoW from time to time. Too bad they ruined your server. Why not just report spam everytime you see some language other than english?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120993 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:21:23 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120943 badtrip : Nope I understand the context of posts. I just wanted to be like the Brazilians :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120943 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:12:11 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120936 Thaler :
said by Dodge See Profile :

I would just like to congratulate everyone participating in the last 3 pages of this thread for turning BBR into official WoW forums.
lol, wut?

said by Dodge See Profile :

Now I know Aquablaze is probably bored at work as per his other posts in other threads and is just itching for an argument to brighten his day :), but what about the rest of you?
Nah, just a slow day, and I'm just pittering my time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120936 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:10:40 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120924 badtrip :
said by Thaler See Profile :

said by chaud See Profile :

Try playing with people that don't speak English, are awful at this game, disregard common things like telling people you are going AFK, not starting an instance when you odn't have time to finish, and have a high ping.
Holy crap, you knew my old Naxx guild?
I know i thought he was describing my 3000th trip through MC back in the day.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120924 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:08:46 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120920 pp03 :
said by badtrip See Profile :

said by pp03 See Profile :

Plus, when you don't speak Portuguese they spam your name with retard attached to the end of it.
The horror! Folks who live thousands of miles make fun of you because you cant speak their language! How dare they do what folks have been doing since there has been more than one language!
And you are a perfect example of someone that doesn't understand the context of posts. That was one simple example in that they now own the server.
--
The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120920 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:07:50 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120918 Thaler :
said by chaud See Profile :

Try playing with people that don't speak English, are awful at this game, disregard common things like telling people you are going AFK, not starting an instance when you odn't have time to finish, and have a high ping.
Holy crap, you knew my old Naxx guild?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120918 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:07:18 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120914 badtrip :
said by pp03 See Profile :

Plus, when you don't speak Portuguese they spam your name with retard attached to the end of it.
The horror! Folks who live thousands of miles make fun of you because you cant speak their language! How dare they do what folks have been doing since there has been more than one language!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120914 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:06:35 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120913 Thaler : I'm pissed because the Brazilians won't give me their nuts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120913 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:06:30 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120901 pp03 :
said by drew See Profile :

Lollerskates.

Did you miss the entire section of my post where I mentioned I played with the Japanese players in FFXII?

pp03 See Profile: Fine. Xenophobic, intolerant. Take your pick.
Without the Brazilians I wouldn't have my new favorite drink.

Some are fine, but if you really don't understand the situation you shouldn't comment on it. They literally have come to the server in mass and bleed out people speaking English in trade. They will attack you for speaking English. Some say this is a Brazilian server now GTFO.

Just because you don't understand the situation doesn't mean the "intolerance" or "hate" on the server isn't justifiable. In fact, a lot of it is in response to the clear hate they spew against those from the US.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120901 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:04:07 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120863 drew : Lollerskates.

Did you miss the entire section of my post where I mentioned I played with the Japanese players in FFXII?

pp03 See Profile: Fine. Xenophobic, intolerant. Take your pick.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120863 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:57:27 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120849 chaud : Try playing with people that don't speak English, are awful at this game, disregard common things like telling people you are going AFK, not starting an instance when you odn't have time to finish, and have a high ping.

You 100% have no clue what is going on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120849 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:55:37 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120825 pp03 :
said by drew See Profile :

You are being racist.

And so are those who transferred or quit.

Also, man up and pay the $25 if you cannot work together.

I'm sure at least someone else played FFXII and played with the Japanese players. If you knew what you were doing, most welcomed NA players.
IGNORANCE IS BLISS.

BRAZIL IS NOT A RACE IT IS A MELTING POT LIKE AMERICA. NOW GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND REALIZE THERE ARE WHITE BRAZILIANS/BLACK BRAZILIANS/NATIVE BRAZILIANS. IT IS NOT RACISM.

Plus, when you don't speak Portuguese they spam your name with retard attached to the end of it.

Now, once and for all, IT IS NOT RACISM.

As much as I hate wikipedia, this is sourced -- for the lazy. I really wish all these scum that jump to spouting racism over dumb shit would realize they are the ignorant Americans making the rest of us look bad.

Brazil's population comes from many racial and ethnic groups.[114] The last National Research for Sample of Domiciles (PNAD) census revealed the following: 49.7% of the population self-identified as White, about 93 million; 42.6% Pardo (meaning brown in Portuguese), about 79 million; 6.9% Black, about 13 million; 0.5% Asian, about 1 million; and 0.4% Amerindian, about 519,000.[115] Most Brazilians can trace their ancestry to the country's indigenous Amerindians, Portuguese colonists, or African slaves, either alone, in combination with one or both of the others, and/or in combination with other ethnic or racial groups. Since the arrival of the Portuguese in the 1500s, this miscegenation between the three groups has been a part of the evolution of the people of Brazil. In the over three centuries of Portuguese colonization, Brazil received more than 700,000 Portuguese settlers and 4 million African slaves.

source »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil
--
The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120825 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:50:51 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120811 drew : You are being racist.

And so are those who transferred or quit.

Also, man up and pay the $25 if you cannot work together.

I'm sure at least someone else played FFXII and played with the Japanese players. If you knew what you were doing, most welcomed NA players.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120811 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:48:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120788 chaud : I'm still pissed that people think I am racist when the Brazilians ruined my realm and caused everyone to quit/xfer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120788 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:43:35 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120767 drew : I'm still pissed about the nonsensical elitest attitude that people are exhibiting regarding PUG heroics.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120767 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:38:53 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120741 Dodge : I would just like to congratulate everyone participating in the last 3 pages of this thread for turning BBR into official WoW forums. Now I know Aquablaze is probably bored at work as per his other posts in other threads and is just itching for an argument to brighten his day :), but what about the rest of you?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120741 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:33:38 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120659 chaud : In some cases, PvP gear is better than blues, but yes, I can pick out if it is better or worse! An amazing skill right?

said by badtrip See Profile :

said by chaud See Profile :

Maybe you missed the part where I don't raid at all. I go to random guilds ZA, SSC, or TK with a different gearset when asked, without expecting loot. I enjoy doing something fun once in a while, not having to show up for raids, and having a good time on vent. You must have missed the part where I said my gear is trash, and I play this game for PvP.
Then you are the epitome of a WoW elitest failure.

You say you only play to PvP and your gear is trash yet you bash other folk's gear and refuse to take others with a single blue piece of gear (or my pally) anywhere you go?

You are a troll and a clueless one at that.

Please stay away from Warhammer.
Warhammer is trash. My gear is bad because I stopped playing for the most part in S3.

People crying about me being racist need to actually play on the realm to appreciate how awful it really is. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Gurubashi is now a destroyed realm.

Everyone keeps crying oh so hard about how these groups are destined for failure, yet failure rarely or never occurs. Don't knock it until you have done it. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120659 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:20:48 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120630 Thaler :
said by badtrip See Profile :

You say you only play to PvP and your gear is trash yet you bash other folk's gear and refuse to take others with a single blue piece of gear (or my pally) anywhere you go?
Eh, don't sweat it too much. People being carried through content isn't exactly a new concept in MMORPGs. Unfortunately, this motion is getting more and more prevalent as content matures.

Usually they're the one that forms groups (so nobody can kick the scrub, lol), or being carried as a friend by the group/raid leader. Heh, it's pretty funny when the guy in crap gear in a group/raid starts QQing about the new guy having *gasp* a blue.

Those groups, I didn't mind getting booted out of. They always looked like they were set up for epic failure anyways.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120630 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:16:47 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120530 badtrip :
said by chaud See Profile :

Maybe you missed the part where I don't raid at all. I go to random guilds ZA, SSC, or TK with a different gearset when asked, without expecting loot. I enjoy doing something fun once in a while, not having to show up for raids, and having a good time on vent. You must have missed the part where I said my gear is trash, and I play this game for PvP.
Then you are the epitome of a WoW elitest failure.

You say you only play to PvP and your gear is trash yet you bash other folk's gear and refuse to take others with a single blue piece of gear (or my pally) anywhere you go?

You are a troll and a clueless one at that.

Please stay away from Warhammer. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120530 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:03:13 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120498 Thaler :
said by chaud See Profile :

Blues are blues. Not much more to say there.
Again, spoken like someone without a clue. I've seen umpteen groups go purely by pixel color when picking up PUG elements, and especially when it comes to S1/2 gear vs. PvE blues. Strictly talking from a rogue (and hunter), there are blues out there that are better than the PvP purples that everyone goes ga-ga for. If you need an example, look no further than the trinket I described (Hourglass of the Unraveler), or the Fel Leather 3-piece blue set. While the iLevel is lower, the usefulness in PvE is much greater than several purples in that slot category since the stats are all allocated in *the* way you need them for PvE.

Guh. It just boggles my mind how people think a player w/ a level 70 blue in an item slot automatically is sub-par to someone who AFKed their way to honor gears.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120498 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:59:05 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120470 kc0bbq :
said by GarbsYea, that was my take, too, when I read that. :hmm:


Some of the most fun PuGs I've had have included Chinese gold farmers, and they were the old target of xenophobia. The problem was that since the runs were fun despite the language barrier, I ended up on friends lists being whispered in the gibberish that pinyin input equates to on the US client. Not that I would have understood anyway. :P

If it was just "English is not my language" people there are ways to phrase that that aren't blanket statements about entire groups.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120470 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:53:07 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120428 Garbs :
said by kc0bbq See Profile :

said by Garbs See Profile :

Ok, I'll bite .. what is a "random Brazilian in blues" supposed to mean? :huh:
Just racism.
Yea, that was my take, too, when I read that. :hmm:
--
Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 PM. Please use the back door.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120428 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:45:36 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120427 drew :
said by ChrisG See Profile :

Why are people so angry and frustrated and so ready to jump down someone's throat about a GAME?

Sunlight does wonders, there are also these things called "Gymnasiums" Oh, and do vaginas gross you guys out?
A+ on the trying to call out a mis-stereotype (as the typical MMOG demographic has been wildly changed with the advent of casual-friendly Wow) you're a part of.

In other news, I'm downloading the PTR installer now. Should be ready by the time I get home from work.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120427 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:45:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120422 chaud : Try almost every player being "English isn't my language".
»forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa···eNo=2#39

A friend put it best, and nicely there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120422 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:44:48 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120420 kc0bbq :
said by Garbs See Profile :

Ok, I'll bite .. what is a "random Brazilian in blues" supposed to mean? :huh:
Just racism.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120420 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:44:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120418 DownLow :
said by Garbs See Profile :

Ok, I'll bite .. what is a "random Brazilian in blues" supposed to mean? :huh:
I think exactly that..the random "english isn't my language" player that always seems to pop up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120418 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:43:30 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120416 ChrisG : Why are people so angry and frustrated and so ready to jump down someone's throat about a GAME?

Sunlight does wonders, there are also these things called "Gymnasiums" Oh, and do vaginas gross you guys out?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120416 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:43:14 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120415 chaud : It is next to impossible to find English speaking players on my realm anymore. The awful Brazilians have invaded, and are terribad at this game for the most part. All my friends xfered or ebayed, which is why I haven't really played since Feb. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120415 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:43:07 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120371 Garbs : Ok, I'll bite .. what is a "random Brazilian in blues" supposed to mean? :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21120371 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:36:22 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119987 chaud :
said by Thaler See Profile :

Honestly, I've been playing this game long enough to know that gear =! good player. I'd rather have an undergeared player I *know* to be competant, rather than a random T5/6 yutz from the LFG queue.

People who compose their PUGs soley based upon the color pixels they see on the armory page deserve the quality of player/group they get.
My groups almost never wipe, and usually complete instances very fast. When I am invited to a raid, I stay out of the fire, or do whatever else needs to be done properly. I don't have amazing gear, but people still take me to things anyway.
Blues are blues. Not much more to say there. The random T6 person in LFG, or even better, on my friends list will be going with me over the random Brazilian in blues. I think it is fairly clear that I am not a nice person, and when I log on to do something, I do it as fast as possible, which does not include taking someone lesser geared. I built up enough friends / guilds that I know to never have to really pug anything with anyone under T5 ish level of gear. So yeah, groups from armory with purples worked out very well for me.

said by badtrip See Profile :

It takes a ton skill to be able to press a sequence of buttons over and over.
However, despite my obvious mastery of binding keys ans pressing them in order, according to some WoW players, I am only passible as a warlock because my hit rating is under 209 and my spell damage is 900 unbuffed. Further, my tanking skills and healing skills are horrendous as you can see by my respective toon's gear.
It takes not being a moron and staying out of fire / doing your job to become geared, at least compared to the afkraiding of pre-BC. Wouldn't take your paladin or priest to anything I do in game.

said by badtrip See Profile :

said by chaud See Profile :

That is why those players in blues are still in blues and continue to dislike me, while the rest of the realm invites me to runs / raids because I am competent.
You fail at WoW elitism, BTW.Your gear is hardly impressive, your toon is about a half a notch above a toon who has yet to go into Kara. Your mage has nothing but welfare epics a few badge rewards (low-end badge rewards as a matter of fact) a ZA drop and crafted epics.

Plus, your hit rating is only 67, as a fire mage, you should have a 164 spell hit rating at level 70. Further, couple that with only 974 +spell damage and I highly doubt you are hitting the single target 1000 DPS threshold you should be at as a "hardcore raider" getting ready to hit 25-mans.
Maybe you missed the part where I don't raid at all. I go to random guilds ZA, SSC, or TK with a different gearset when asked, without expecting loot. I enjoy doing something fun once in a while, not having to show up for raids, and having a good time on vent. You must have missed the part where I said my gear is trash, and I play this game for PvP.
I know how to play my class. Also, I hear 974 = 1146.

For whoever asked about the gear,
»wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Naxxram···_10_Sets
»wotlk.wowhead.com/?items&filter=···=1;crv=0
»www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=15674.0
ect.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119987 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:30:57 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119655 Mashiki :
said by Thaler See Profile :

Staying out of the fire is srs business.
GET IN THE FIRE! IN! You're going to wipe us!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119655 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:34:06 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119588 drew : I'm sure there's plenty to browse on Wowhead and thottbot, however it has to be taken into perspective.

Think of the gear gap between vanilla and BC. HUGE, right? However look at the HP gap between mobs in EPL or Winterspring and the ones in HFP. HUGE!

They've said that it won't be as bad in lich king as it was in BC, however there's still going to be that gap, and it's gotta be taken into perspective with the mobs, encounters and new/tweaked talents, abilities and spells.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119588 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:24:02 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119491 Jakiel00 :
said by chaud See Profile :

said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

Ah ok Gotcha. You were shunned away because of one blue!?!?!?! That is insane! I would seriously take a good hunter with PVE epics for the CC ability in a heartbeat!

Still looking forward to seeing the gear in the early WOTLK content and how it will correlate with the Epics we have now.
I wouldn't run anything with a person that still has a blue. :P
I don't know what you are "looking forward to". A lot of the items that you will see up to 80 are already there for looking at.
The gear right after 70. That is what I meant. If you have a link to this gear post it in the forums. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119491 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:09:31 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119365 badtrip : hehe, I have one ally, the priest. All my other toons are Horde and if someone was to ask Ally or Horde, I'd say Horde without a second's thought.

I never really play anymore but on the off chance you see Smruin, Nekruk or Datajunkie on A52 please do say hello.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119365 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:49:41 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119319 badtrip :
said by chaud See Profile :

That is why those players in blues are still in blues and continue to dislike me, while the rest of the realm invites me to runs / raids because I am competent.
You fail at WoW elitism, BTW.Your gear is hardly impressive, your toon is about a half a notch above a toon who has yet to go into Kara. Your mage has nothing but welfare epics a few badge rewards (low-end badge rewards as a matter of fact) a ZA drop and crafted epics.

Plus, your hit rating is only 67, as a fire mage, you should have a 164 spell hit rating at level 70. Further, couple that with only 974 +spell damage and I highly doubt you are hitting the single target 1000 DPS threshold you should be at as a "hardcore raider" getting ready to hit 25-mans.

On the server I played on, Area 52, if you tried to get in on a Kara badge run PUG with your gear, the elitists there would laugh you out of group chat.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119319 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:43:56 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119248 ErikVKing : Too bad you play Ally, I'd /wave at ya with my alt on Area 52.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119248 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:28:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119051 badtrip :
said by chaud See Profile :

If you are a "hyper-casual", I don't want to even run something with you. It is far more likely that you are an incompetent player when you are poorly geared, and even on the rare chance that you have an idea of what you are doing, your dps is slightly above the druid tanks. :(
It takes a ton skill to be able to press a sequence of buttons over and over.

»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···tajunkie

I press ~,~,~,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,... occasionally f or shift-f

»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···n=Smruin

I press shift-f (sometimes) then 3,4,4,4,4,4,5,3,4,4,4,4,5,...

»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···hudupnub

Only play BGs with this toon. I press 3 or 4 and occasionally y and shift-y

»www.wowarmory.com/character-shee···hudupnub

However, despite my obvious mastery of binding keys ans pressing them in order, according to some WoW players, I am only passible as a warlock because my hit rating is under 209 and my spell damage is 900 unbuffed. Further, my tanking skills and healing skills are horrendous as you can see by my respective toon's gear.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119051 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:51:36 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119022 Kevlar : Ahh....this thread makes me so glad im not gonna be a part of the wotlk (I hope) as I (hope) to quit in Jan when my next rebill comes around.

This snobbish asshat attitude that people like chaud and many others exhibit is just annoying. Its a game. Gear = time spent trying to gear up. Period. If you are just now starting you get ostracized because you havent lived the game from day 1 or (gasp) are gearing up an alt.

Actually starting to look forward to ending my wow time now. Its odd. been playing since around 1.0 release and has usually been fun. Lately its the people that make me wanna move on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21119022 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:47:02 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118971 Thaler :
said by chaud See Profile :

If you are a "hyper-casual", I don't want to even run something with you. It is far more likely that you are an incompetent player when you are poorly geared, and even on the rare chance that you have an idea of what you are doing, your dps is slightly above the druid tanks. :(
Spoken like someone who hasn't a clue what they're talking about. These are the geared folks I love to see pulling a boner in Heroic PUGs (they rely upon their gear to pull them through, often enough with hilarious results), or they were the geared folks that my hunter would blow outta the water in DPS while in my gearing-up blues/purples.

Honestly, I've been playing this game long enough to know that gear =! good player. I'd rather have an undergeared player I *know* to be competant, rather than a random T5/6 yutz from the LFG queue.

...and no, having blues does not make you automatically "hyper-casual". Often enough, there are a few blue pieces that have no equal until much later in the gearing process. For example, the one blue my hunter had for the longest was the Hourglass of the Unraveler. It wasn't until I got the DST on a rare free-roll that I finally got to replace it.

People who compose their PUGs soley based upon the color pixels they see on the armory page deserve the quality of player/group they get.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118971 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:38:53 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118911 chaud : That is why those players in blues are still in blues and continue to dislike me, while the rest of the realm invites me to runs / raids because I am competent.

If you are a "hyper-casual", I don't want to even run something with you. It is far more likely that you are an incompetent player when you are poorly geared, and even on the rare chance that you have an idea of what you are doing, your dps is slightly above the druid tanks. :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118911 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:31:08 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118877 badtrip :
said by chaud See Profile :

I wouldn't run anything with a person that still has a blue. :P
And those of us in blues don't want to run anything with a player that has an attitude such as yours.

WoW's playerbase has really slipped quality-wise in the past year. It has become little more than a middle school lunch yard were folks are ostracized because they are wearing the epeen equivalent to Prowings.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118877 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:26:13 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118797 klambert : Remember also that some people putting PUGs together have no clue about classes other than their own. I actually volunteered to go on a Gruul's PUG with my mage a while back and the guy said I wasn't geared well enough, since I did not have over 1100 + spell damage (at that time).

Of course, at that time, I had killed Gruul with that toon a couple of times (God knows how many times I had axed him with my tank and shadow priest), had killed Mags multiple times and had killed Rage once [it was an alt I was working up and for some crazy reason I was trying to finish my T4 set with Gruuls).

He clearly had no clue about what was needed . . .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118797 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:13:14 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118786 chaud :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

Ah ok Gotcha. You were shunned away because of one blue!?!?!?! That is insane! I would seriously take a good hunter with PVE epics for the CC ability in a heartbeat!

Still looking forward to seeing the gear in the early WOTLK content and how it will correlate with the Epics we have now.
I wouldn't run anything with a person that still has a blue. :P
I don't know what you are "looking forward to". A lot of the items that you will see up to 80 are already there for looking at.

As far as gearing up a new person, guilds will take you and gear you if you are not a moron and show up on time with everything every night. There is a shortage of non-morons / people that still want to raid. Gearing up is fairly easy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118786 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:11:02 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118716 drew : I used to be able to ride around on coat-tails as I was in the biggest and best guild on the server pre-BC. Then BC happened, things splintered and never quite regained the prestige. Since then, it's been a miss-match of guilds.

Too bad I suck at PVP.
--
Some people are like slinkys. Completely and totally useless, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
LOLz]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118716 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:57:01 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118661 Jakiel00 : Dang! That is the icing on the cake right there :( I would put those guys on my ignore list ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118661 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:46:49 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118539 Thaler :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

Ah ok Gotcha. You were shunned away because of one blue!?!?!?! That is insane! I would seriously take a good hunter with PVE epics for the CC ability in a heartbeat!
Yup. The kicker was that it was Heroic Mech.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118539 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:25:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118510 Jakiel00 : Ah ok Gotcha. You were shunned away because of one blue!?!?!?! That is insane! I would seriously take a good hunter with PVE epics for the CC ability in a heartbeat!

Still looking forward to seeing the gear in the early WOTLK content and how it will correlate with the Epics we have now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118510 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:20:52 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118506 Shatter : Alot of this comes down to people have done these places so many times they want it to be fast and painless as possible. I pretty much refuse to go to ZA anymore, I did Kara every week for 4 weeks a few months ago only because of badges. My guild has cancelled ZA runs last 2 weeks cause no one wants to go other then usually 5 people on alts and I'd rather stab myself in the eye with a spoon then be a part of that group.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118506 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:18:48 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118500 Thaler :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

When we ran H SV, we didn't have craftables from what I remember. It was all Blue crap from some of the higher level quests.
Damn, that is a challenging mode then, lol. Usually what I mean by "blues" are the level 70 kind. If you ran Hero SV off TBC quest rewards...yeeg, that could be kinda messy.

But yeah, I'm not speaking personally to how you and your friends run groups, I'm more talking about the PUG market in general. Hell, on my server, my T5/Badge Vendor hunter was shunned away at times because I had full high quality PvE epics...AND ONE BLUE. Holy crap, we're all gonna die because the hunter has a blue trinket!!!

...yeah, I'm speaking more about the people running groups like that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118500 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:17:20 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118474 Jakiel00 :
said by Thaler See Profile :

said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

Yes it does. Try running Heroic SV in all Blues. Its fun. And when I mean fun I mean taking a power drill to my eye socket fun.
I dunno what issues you had then. I ran Heroic SV just fine in a group makeup of blues/craftables and had no real issues.

Plus, I never said that running heroics in blues would be as easy as running them in T6, but they are defiantely doable. Anyone who says you *need* T5/6 to clear a heroic 5-man seriously doesn't know how to play the game.
Did I say that you said that? Alls I am saying that when my guildies and I run, we don't mind taking an undergeared played for a heroic. Its all in good fun and we don't mind helping out. We aren't elitest like that. If I I was starting all over, a grp in blues would be alot more "challenging" and I am thankful we are past that part.

When we ran H SV, we didn't have craftables from what I remember. It was all Blue crap from some of the higher level quests. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118474 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:13:34 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118437 Thaler :
said by ChrisG See Profile :

Oh, and I rerolled again about 3 months ago as a druid tank on a high pop pvp server. It didn't take long (maybe 4 weeks @ 70?) to gear up enough to tank BT without stepping foot in SSC TK or MHJ. So dont tell me how hard it is to gear a toon up nowdays on a server ridden with tier6.
So, you knew *nobody* on that server, and had nobody to reference yourself to ride coattails on the way up for gear once hitting 70? I highly doubt it.

Yes, rerolling 70 and gearing up is easy as all hell if you know people, and have already plotted your course for gear since day one. It also helps too if you're playing a class/role that can operate pretty heavily on the S1/2 honor drops of the time. ;)

Either that, or your server has some of the nicest people in the planet on it. On my server, you can't run PUG heros or Karas w/o a full set of T5 and above epics. Please tell me how you merge into that with *just* the avaliability of dungeon blues and a few craftable epics.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118437 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:07:20 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118414 Thaler :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

Yes it does. Try running Heroic SV in all Blues. Its fun. And when I mean fun I mean taking a power drill to my eye socket fun.
I dunno what issues you had then. I ran Heroic SV just fine in a group makeup of blues/craftables and had no real issues.

Plus, I never said that running heroics in blues would be as easy as running them in T6, but they are defiantely doable. Anyone who says you *need* T5/6 to clear a heroic 5-man seriously doesn't know how to play the game.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118414 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:02:42 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118408 Jakiel00 : Its been too long since I have run a Heroic is all blues, along with the rest of the grp being in Blues. Prolly when we ran SV, it would have been with a Druid tank, Holy pally, and some assorted DPS. Pain in the ass though and takes a while.

My point before was depends on the grp makeup. If I am running a Heroic with guildies that I know are in T5/T6 guild for farming badges, I don't have a problem running with a 5th guy that is undergeared. If I am in a grp and lets say starting out the game for the first time (If it was my first 70), then it really would be a painstaking process since the whole grp was in blues. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118408 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:01:49 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118406 ChrisG : Hey look another person with keyboard courage to tell someone on a forum how they really feel.

---> PP03

I dont appreciate personal attacks and I'm not here to be a forum troll.

As far as those old dungeons go, I'm talking about the 5 man scholos etc back in the day. (Yes, the raid versions of these dungeons were easier.) I'm referring to the simple challenge of doing it as a 5 man.
Back when each and every epic item cost a fortune or was simple unavailable to the vast majority. When you would oooo and ahhhh at one piece of somebody's tier1.
Sure I was a noob back then and of course it seemed hard.

Okay, so I'm saying Gruul and Mag used to be hard. So no guilds on most servers were able to down Gruul until they nerfed him the first time. And you're saying thats a joke, okay!

And AquaBlaze:

Oh, and I rerolled again about 3 months ago as a druid tank on a high pop pvp server. It didn't take long (maybe 4 weeks @ 70?) to gear up enough to tank BT without stepping foot in SSC TK or MHJ. So dont tell me how hard it is to gear a toon up nowdays on a server ridden with tier6.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118406 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:01:44 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118367 pp03 :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

said by Thaler See Profile :

said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

really depends on the grp gear.
No it doesn't. All heroics can be done in blues. It was done then in blues, and can be done today. The issue is getting other people to join you for it.
Yes it does. Try running Heroic SV in all Blues. Its fun. And when I mean fun I mean taking a power drill to my eye socket fun.
What was your class make up running it in blues?

That will be another thing gone in WoTLK.

Probably would have been easy as Warrior tank, priest healer, two mages, and any other dps (pref rogue).

Then, even in blues it will be very easy -- all cc possible, spell reflects, aoe damage, all cures needed, aoe heals, pre heals, hot's, etc.

Makeup is very important right now when you don't out gear something, that is why I love wotlk more and more.

edit, roge is not a class.
--
The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118367 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:56:05 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118326 Jakiel00 :
said by Thaler See Profile :

said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

really depends on the grp gear.
No it doesn't. All heroics can be done in blues. It was done then in blues, and can be done today. The issue is getting other people to join you for it.
Yes it does. Try running Heroic SV in all Blues. Its fun. And when I mean fun I mean taking a power drill to my eye socket fun.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118326 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:48:28 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118323 Kearnstd :
said by chaud See Profile :

That is why armory is the best thing they have added to the game so far!
except when one runs into idiots who think frost mages cant dps.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118323 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:48:11 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118296 Thaler :
said by ChrisG See Profile :

Nowdays, BoP epics mean nothing. This latter generation of WoW players are so spoiled. Especially the ones that have been playing only since BC was released. The ones that weren't there for the server first kara boss kills. When Gruul and Mag were completely fucking HARD.
Back in my days, we used to clear to Gruul using a grey shovel!

Uphill. Both ways.

In the snow.

:D

Yeeg, it's a flipping game. You know as well as I do, the only reason a lot of the previous content was "hard" was because classes/talents/skills/encounters were borked at the time. Sure, having little avaliability of gear affects the fights (can't really well overgear for server firsts, can you?), but when the bosses are buggy, or your TBC talents don't work, it's especially hard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118296 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:43:37 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118263 Thaler :
said by pp03 See Profile :

NOTHING WAS OR WILL EVER BE HARD IN WOW. EVER. QUIT PRETENDING YOU ARE LEET BECAUSE THIS IS AN EASY GAME.
Staying out of the fire is srs business.

said by pp03 See Profile :

So what if blizzard makes it casual friendly, the only difficulty change from 10 mans to 25 mans will be how many healers are assigned to the tank and how many people have to move out of the fire.
Well, they could make the fire different colors. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118263 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:38:35 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118244 Thaler :
said by ChrisG See Profile :

Any idiot can gear up in today's WoW.
You honestly have no idea what it is to be a late-game starter/reroll. When the rest of the server is soaked in T5/6, you're *lucky* if you get to run heroics, even in craftable epics. Hell, even Kara guilds are dwindling because most of them have either blown up, or have progressed into T5 and beyond (and aren't looking for "undergeared" players).

The avaliability of the badge vendor doesn't mean a thing when you aren't even given the chance to get badges with your fellow server-mates. PvE content may be nerfed into the ground, but starting up late in the game is a very tough challenge.

said by ChrisG See Profile :

They need to make DIFFICULT 5 man and 10 man content, anyone remember the oldschool scholo and strat places? Where you could 5, 10 or (I think) 15 man. Anyone ever try 5 manning those back in the day? OMG.
Eh, I never got to run those instances pre-Molten Core release, but honestly, those runs were never hard. The difficulty more stemmed from WoW being a new game and there being such a high percentage of players who simply did not know how to play. The more the game settled in and the more class tweaks that came down the line, the easier those runs became.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118244 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:34:49 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118237 pp03 :
said by ChrisG See Profile :

Lets think back to level 60. Remember looking at someone's gear. Nicely equipped with dungeon BoP blues and some purples = hey this person has been around a bit and probably knows their ass from a hole in the ground. Then there was the guy who was wearing like 90% BOE AH and crafted epics and then the one or two random greens. You could smell the nub on them.

Nowdays, BoP epics mean nothing. This latter generation of WoW players are so spoiled. Especially the ones that have been playing only since BC was released. The ones that weren't there for the server first kara boss kills. When Gruul and Mag were completely fucking HARD. The average player skill has dropped and continues to drop. This pve content simply does not force people to think on their feet and play well.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THEY NERFED THE BC PVE CONTENT?

I hate Blizzard. They set their standards so low and make shit so god damn simple that even the dumbest of dumb can do it. This is a simple tactic to recruit and retain as many people as possible. This is a strategy used when the military gets desperate for people, they lower the standard. Blizzard isn't desperate, just greedy.
lol, wow.

Look, the game evolves, shit happens. Nothing has or ever will be hard in this game. I've hit on this in another post, but it just isn't. For you to say anything pre-BC was hard is a joke, to say mag and gru used to be hard is a joke. Things have gone from easy to easier and that is it.

How complicated was nef? Clear your side with quick dps, have a cloak on, avoid class calls, face him away from the group. How hard was rag? DPS banadge yourself when possible, don't stand close together, spam the tank.

How was anything ever hard, you are making it like you are some kind of hard core old school player in this game. Difficulty in this game only arises in getting 24 other people to do their easy task.

What you are talking about, bop blues never meant anything. I remember gear runs in scholo, 10 people, fast clear. NOTHING WAS OR WILL EVER BE HARD IN WOW. EVER. QUIT PRETENDING YOU ARE LEET BECAUSE THIS IS AN EASY GAME. So what if blizzard makes it casual friendly, the only difficulty change from 10 mans to 25 mans will be how many healers are assigned to the tank and how many people have to move out of the fire. THAT IS IT.
--
The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118237 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:33:18 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118192 Thaler :
said by pp03 See Profile :

When I first hit 70 I had to use food, potions, and wizard oil to break 1k healing. My gear was trash.
Again, nobody's saying that he isn't equipped enough for the content. The problem is, with PUG heroics, they armory his gear, see that he's in T4/hero rewards, figure he isn't worth the time/trouble, and take the next T5/6 person in queue. He could be willing to chug umpteen billion pots to bring his healing/DPS/etc. up, but none of that matters. If his purples aren't "up to par" for what the PUG heroics are looking for, they aren't going to take him.

That's why it's bullshit. You don't need T5/6 to clear hero content, and gear doesn't necessarily speak for the player's skill/character at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118192 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:25:58 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118094 ChrisG : Lets think back to level 60. Remember looking at someone's gear. Nicely equipped with dungeon BoP blues and some purples = hey this person has been around a bit and probably knows their ass from a hole in the ground. Then there was the guy who was wearing like 90% BOE AH and crafted epics and then the one or two random greens. You could smell the nub on them.

Nowdays, BoP epics mean nothing. This latter generation of WoW players are so spoiled. Especially the ones that have been playing only since BC was released. The ones that weren't there for the server first kara boss kills. When Gruul and Mag were completely fucking HARD. The average player skill has dropped and continues to drop. This pve content simply does not force people to think on their feet and play well.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE THEY NERFED THE BC PVE CONTENT?

I hate Blizzard. They set their standards so low and make shit so god damn simple that even the dumbest of dumb can do it. This is a simple tactic to recruit and retain as many people as possible. This is a strategy used when the military gets desperate for people, they lower the standard. Blizzard isn't desperate, just greedy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118094 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:05:49 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118020 ChrisG : Any idiot can gear up in today's WoW. I wish they would revert back to the way heroics started out. Skilled healers with ~1500+ healing going oom on every single trash pull. Thats what I'm talking about. I want that hard shit. I did the tier 0.5 set completely on 2 characters back in the day, anyone remember how difficult that was? even for tier2 geared people, that stuff was no joke, talk about a serious grind for gear.
Blizzard keeps lowering the standard, and their playerbase grows, its so fucking sad. They need to make heroics HARD. Why even have normals now? I healed heroic Magister's Terrace as a tree with 1k plus healing, no wipes. ONE THOUSAND. WTF? Sure, I was busting my ass, but a lot of people would say thats half the plus healing required, yes trees are different. Thats supposed to be the hardest of hard heroics.
They need to make DIFFICULT 5 man and 10 man content, anyone remember the oldschool scholo and strat places? Where you could 5, 10 or (I think) 15 man. Anyone ever try 5 manning those back in the day? OMG. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21118020 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:50:37 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117972 pp03 : Coming from someone who has been gearing up another character from scratch for fun before wotlk, I'll tell you what to do.

When I first hit 70 I had to use food, potions, and wizard oil to break 1k healing. My gear was trash.

I knew I couldn't heal heroics (Paladin) if there was multi-target damage (especially over agroing the tank direct damage), so that was out of the question.

How was I supposed to gear up? Simple, crafted pieces, and finding a gem of a guild. I found a guild with decent gear that was farming kara and wanted to gear up another healer. So, my gimp 1k healing was backed up by two healers with over 2k. Things like that happen when guilds need more of certain classes.

So here I am two weeks later and I'm over 1.8k healing. My main heal went from hitting (with light) for 1.2k to now 1.6k, which is huge.

Here is where you are either a nice guy or an asshole. I can stay with said guild and keep doing my four hour kara clears once a week and doing gruul and mag once a week or I can skip out on this guild and now I have the gear to be a trash player in a T5 or 6 guild.

Look, raiding is not what it used to be. I see you have said that you don't have the time to raid anymore. Let me tell you how much I raided to go from 1k to 1.8k plus healing.

Get ready for it, 5 hours a week. One hour in gruul/mag, and four hours in kara.

Guess what happens when I upgrade guilds, YOU don't run kara anymore or low tier 25 mans. Maybe you were an old school raider where you still needed to do full clears of MC to get people their pants and TF's on top of blackrock...lol I can't even remember the tier2 zone anymore. As well as getting half pieces in AQ40, it isn't like that anymore.

If I was in a T5 guild it would be ZA and whatever, if I was in T6 it would be BT and maybe one other, and so on. You really don't need to raid for more than 5 hours a week anymore.

Blizzard themselves said they made heroics not worth the rewards this time around. Some of those require equal gear to the rewards just to finish (or at least used to). In WoTLK heroics will be like you have mentioned, slightly harder 5 mans with basically a half tier epic/blue set. Then what you want to do will be viable. But still, you should gear in pvp/raids. It doesn't take massive dedication anymore and MUCH less in wotlk.
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The History Channel rocks! ... you know it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117972 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:39:44 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117960 ErikVKing :
said by drew See Profile :

I really miss the 'Well I am not sure if it'll work out, but do you want to try a few pulls to see how it goes?' days.
Yeah, some of those PuGs ended up being the most fun. I'm levelling a Warrior again and the last few SM runs I did we had not one healer - but, we had 4 Hunters and me, all of us DPSing ;o)

That was a blast!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117960 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:36:57 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117940 drew : I just tranaferred back to my old PVP server, so I don't know if the armory has updated.

Look up Galain on Gorgonnash. 70 Druid.

I am most likely in my boomkin pve set as I was doing dailies all yesterday since I couldn't get a group.

As for the 'take the T6 mage over the T4 mage, yeah I totally understand that' however both groups that caused me to post this thread spent at least 20 minutes LF1M after rejecting me. I highly doubt that waiting those 20 minutes or more was worth trying to find someone marginally better geared.

I guess I will have to make the groups from now on.

I really miss the 'Well I am not sure if it'll work out, but do you want to try a few pulls to see how it goes?' days.
--
Some people are like slinkys. Completely and totally useless, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
LOLz]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117940 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:33:17 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117934 ChrisG : Face it, most of the people that play this game are spineless, normal, wimpy, computer age people. They dont have the balls to tell someone to fuckoff IRL. This is their escape, where they can not be help accountable for their actions. They are going to capitalize on every opportunity to boost their epeens. This is a fact of life, I'm sure we're all (even me) guilty of this. I used to be a serious asshole back in the old world days. I've really come to take a light hearted approach to this game and remember that there is a person behind that toon. I wish my attitude was contagious and more people would at least try to be decent to each other. I'm no angel, I still heckel people but there is a fine line between giving someone a slightly hard time when they goof something up and being completely cruel.

We were all n00bs once.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117934 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:31:00 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117786 ErikVKing :
said by Sithra See Profile :

said by ErikVKing See Profile :

Part of it will likely be that the T6 geared Heroic runners are doing it for the daily gold, not the gear, so they want to get in and out fast and *get* money, not pay more for a few wipes than they will make in the end.
No chance, there are quicker ways of earning 25g than doing the daily heroic.
Sure, I can run the SW dailies and get more than 25g in the time it takes to run the heroic - but if I had the choice, I'd do the heroic because it's more fun. Others may feel the same way. And, like chaud See Profile said, badges and gems and money all drop - plus the handful of greens to AH/DE, and the grey crap to vendor.

edit: Yes, I know greens and greys drop when doing SW dailies, so it's a moot point, and it kind of goes without saying. The point I guess is that you can get everything from the daily heroic that you get from a daily run of SW, but maybe have more fun in it if that's how you prefer to play.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117786 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:46:18 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117772 chaud :
said by Sithra See Profile :

No chance, there are quicker ways of earning 25g than doing the daily heroic.
Badges -> Gems -> Gold

said by AB_Lazy :

Honestly, Armory and character inspection changes have made the game much less personal. No longer does anyone care wether the person can handle themselves, they just see the number of purples you have and assign you a "worth" based on that. Armory/inspection changes would've been a lot nicer had you the choice to take yourself off the radars, rather than be forcibly submitted. I totally understand the people who strip themselves naked before logging, just so Armory doesn't give them grief.
The people who opted out would just be not invited. That makes things even worse for them.

If I have the choice between a T4 mage and a T6 mage, I am going to take the T6 mage. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117772 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:40:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117765 Sithra :
said by ErikVKing See Profile :

Part of it will likely be that the T6 geared Heroic runners are doing it for the daily gold, not the gear, so they want to get in and out fast and *get* money, not pay more for a few wipes than they will make in the end.
No chance, there are quicker ways of earning 25g than doing the daily heroic.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117765 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:37:05 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117700 Shatter : Yeah some instances dont need Tier 5+ gear. However some do need a minimum of gear unless you want to spend 3 hours of your night wasted. Ill give an example: ZA. The reason I wont go to ZA anymore I was reminded of last week when I broke my own rule and went cause they needed healing. We went with 3 people / 10 that were in some purples/some blues. However they had very low HP and when we got to Hexlord(I think I havent had coffee yet) they got raped on his shadow bolts...over and over. This is a good example where there is a minimum of gear needed to do an instance. They were fine first 4 bosses, but then their gear plateu'd and was insufficient. I dont do instances anymore with PUG newbs for a good reason, too many wearing crap and too many are stupid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117700 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:15:04 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117682 ErikVKing :
said by chaud See Profile :

That is why armory is the best thing they have added to the game so far!
Not necessarily, depending on when the armory scanned your information it could show you in the crappy play around gear. Look up Tylerderden on Hyjal if you want a laugh ;o)

He's been sitting in old crappy, yet funny-looking gears for farming old low level Herbs ;o)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117682 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:06:39 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117671 ErikVKing : Part of it will likely be that the T6 geared Heroic runners are doing it for the daily gold, not the gear, so they want to get in and out fast and *get* money, not pay more for a few wipes than they will make in the end.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21117671 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:04:04 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116935 anon :
said by drew See Profile :

And it's becoming quite apparent that you're a selfish snob.
Welcome to the WoW playerbase. :)

But he does make a good point. If your gear isn't up to par, you can always make the group...or find a geared friend to start the groups for you.

Nobody's questioning that you cannot do the content. However, it is a buyer's market as far as groups are concerned. Unless you're filling a hard-to-find role (ie. healer and/or tank), then groups have their choice of umpteen other PUG geartards to pick from.

Honestly, Armory and character inspection changes have made the game much less personal. No longer does anyone care wether the person can handle themselves, they just see the number of purples you have and assign you a "worth" based on that. Armory/inspection changes would've been a lot nicer had you the choice to take yourself off the radars, rather than be forcibly submitted. I totally understand the people who strip themselves naked before logging, just so Armory doesn't give them grief.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116935 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:28:13 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116161 chaud : »armorylite.com/us/gurubashi/chaud
My gear is trash, that is why I make the groups!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116161 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:01:55 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116156 drew : And it's becoming quite apparent that you're a selfish snob.

Thanks!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116156 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:00:57 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116149 chaud : That is why armory is the best thing they have added to the game so far!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116149 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:00:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116135 Kearnstd : downside to the armory is it allows people to prescan everyone asking to join, you could be extremely skilled but if you dont look good enough on the armory you wont ever get into a group of min/max type people.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116135 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:58:44 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116071 drew : I used to have time to commit to raiding, now I don't.

I figure that running heroics for badges and such would be my progression now, but it seems I can't even do that anymore.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116071 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:48:43 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116001 Mashiki : Well that competent part might be kinda hard for some people. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21116001 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:39:58 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115878 chaud : Join a guild that is doing T6 content and show up every night. As long as you are competent and show up every night, they will gear you. Not to mention badge gear. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115878 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:24:25 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115780 drew : It's bullshit though.

I am *not* undergeared for any heroic. I am *not* undergeared for Kara. Hell, I'm not even undergeared for Mag/Gruul.

I simply want to experience the heroics and instances I haven't done before WotLK comes out. It's seemingly impossible.

Oh, and by the way, I was undergeared for the T5 raids and my gear hasn't changed since then.

So, how is one supposed to progress?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115780 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:03:27 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115620 Omega : I'll play devil's advocate here. Requiring a min gear requirement shows you at the very minimum know how to stay out of fire.

One of the most un-fun things in this game is wiping over and over again in a 5 man instance. They simply don't want to do that. Sure there are people that get screwed over, but I would have no problem shutting out undergeared people if it meant I wouldn't have to sit through an instance for 3 hours.
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Whats smells like blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115620 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:31:26 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115320 chaud : They are bad for not armorying you first!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115320 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:31:38 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115234 DownLow : I guess it comes down to this...play a video game, you get what comes along with it (immaturity, lack of social skills and people that hide behind a computer screen and thus have no repercussions for their actions).
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115234 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:09:26 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115174 Dodge : People are dicks in general. I know it seems like I have a story for every post, but it seems that everyone's experience is generally the same. So here is another installment of my story:

I don't raid and actually suspended my account for the time being. My wife's account is active so I play around on her priest once in a while. She is in Sunwell and is geared accordingly, #2 guild on the server.

So, I am running around shat, talking to friends I get a whisper to run one of the coilfang heroics. Ok, I am bored so I head over there. On the way I was playing with wardrobe and basically I arrive in her non-existing pvp gear (she hates pvp so gear sucks). All of a sudden I get kicked out of the group. I ask them wtf, without realizing that the toon is in PvP gear (which looking around still outgeared most of that group). I get back a birrage of n00b, who did you blow to get into that guild, l2p, etc, etc, etc. At which point I switch back to her normal gear and start laughing (that obnoxious undead laugh:) ) Until I put all of them on ignore I kept getting invites and applogies:) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21115174 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:58:20 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114938 Thaler :
said by Jakiel00 See Profile :

really depends on the grp gear.
No it doesn't. All heroics can be done in blues. It was done then in blues, and can be done today. The issue is getting other people to join you for it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114938 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:20:16 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114922 Thaler :
said by drew See Profile :

In a pick up group for exceptionally trivial content, why would one need to be overgeared? I'd HOPE for those players, but certainly not require someone to have outgeared the content three or four times over.
Supply-and-demand, as well as the better-than-thou attitude.

There's just so many players out there, and at the end-game, gear is widely distributed. It sounds like on your server, T5/badge gear is about the "norm" for gear out there.

Plus, a lot of geared players want a guaranteed run, and don't want to waste time. If they pick up an "undergeared" person, then the rest of the group will piss/moan/wine over the lack of gear, and the group falls apart. Basically, if they're T6+, then they expect the rest of their PUG element to be - otherwise it's a "waste of time".
said by drew See Profile :

1) Where else are they supposed to gear up for raiding if not in Heroics...
said by chaud See Profile :

1) Who cares, they are not my problem.
There's your answer. Other players just simply do not care.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114922 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:15:53 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114900 Thaler : Heh, I've been saying this for a long while. The need for overgearing is retarded, but meh, it's just to be expected at this point in time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114900 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:11:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114818 drew : I mean it in a 'I wouldn't let some shitty geared guy in our guild. We're on T6 content, why do we need someone in T4?' sense.

In a pick up group for exceptionally trivial content, why would one need to be overgeared? I'd HOPE for those players, but certainly not require someone to have outgeared the content three or four times over.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114818 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:56:16 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114802 chaud : You mean the other way around? I would care a little bit if they were in my guild. But why bother for a pug?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114802 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:53:41 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114796 drew : That's a total dick move.

In a guild situation? Yeah, I can totally see that.

In a pug for the daily heroic? Total dick move.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114796 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:52:56 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114780 chaud : 1) Who cares, they are not my problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114780 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:50:18 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114740 Jakiel00 : really depends on the grp gear. If its me and my guildies and a guy with so-so gear, then I don't mind running through since we can carry the other player. We do this in Kara all the time and still full clear it in 3 hours. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114740 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:41:09 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114704 drew : 1) Where else are they supposed to gear up for raiding if not in Heroics...

2) I'm in badge loot and kara pieces with a piece from the Eye...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114704 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:35:35 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114662 chaud : I don't even bother with someone not at least in T4/Badge gear anymore. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114662 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:28:48 EDT Re: [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114628 DownLow : You do if you tank, heal or DPS are lousy players! :)
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114628 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:19:50 EDT [Rant] Ridiculous Overgear Expectations http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114601 drew : My piss-n-moan for the day:

You don't need to be in full T5 or T6 to run heroic Crypts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21114601 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:15:57 EDT