Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
| FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? All,
After finally having enough with the undersized NAT table in the ActionTec, this weekend I decided to undertake the task of configuring my personal router as the outside router and setting up the ActionTec internal to my network. I was pretty successful for the most part. There's still a couple things that I am having issues with and also need some clarification as to the steps in the FAQ.
First a bit about my setup. I was an early FIOS Internet(Pre TV) adopter and at that time, they were wiring ONT's to be ethernet from the ONT to the router so that was not a hurdle/extra step that I had to deal with thankfully. I had since replaced the inadequate D-Link that was given to me with a Buffalo WHR-G54s router and have configured it with DD-WRT.
I am also a subscriber to the Home Media DVR service so I wanted to retain that functionality as well. Keeping this in mind, I looked up the FAQ to retain the Streaming functionality here and began the process to tame this configuration. I followed it step by step but did take some independent directin along the way due to what appeared to be some gaps in the faq and also to accomodate my existing network configuration.
At any rate, I ended up with the Buffalo as the outermost router directly connected(via PPOE, as we;re not on DHCP in my neck of the woods) and the ActionTec connected to the LAN port. I have configured the ActionTec to retrieve it's IP address via DHCP and disabled the DHCP server in the ActionTec so the Buffalo is leasing IP's to it and to the COAX network(STB's). The Buffalo is configured at 192.168.1.1 with a DHCP pool of 192.168.1.2-192.168.1.27 of which it only dynamically assigns *.26 and *.27 to the STB's due to the fact I mac assigned static IP's for the remaining devices on my network. I've also put the ActionTec in the DMZ of the Buffalo as suggested by another FAQ on this configuration. This covers all of my networked devices.
Everything seems to be working, I'm getting VOD and Guide data, the STB shows the proper IP addresses based on the IP pool configured on the Buffalo. And I am able to avoid the convoluted port forwarding interface of the ActionTec instead using the DD-WRT UI on the Buffalo. This is all good, however the one thing that I seem to have lost in this configuration is the ability to see my DVR's from the FIOS TV Central web site.
Prior to the change, I could see/delete recordings, schedule new ones, and view the HD usage data. Now when I go to the site, I just get a 'refreshing...' graphic and it never seems to be able to connect to the DVR's.
Does anyone have any experience with this non standard config and successfully using it with the FIOS TV Central web site? Any idea what settings I can/need to change to get this to work? | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
 ·Bay Area Internet ..
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? Interesting. I'm not aware of anyone that has tried to access the STBs from VZ Central.
I understand you've changed the configuration somewhat, but there are some things that aren't clear in your post.
•How are the routers connected? LAN-to-LAN or LAN-to-WAN?
Part 4 of the FAQ relies on a LAN-to-LAN connection, however, you state:
I have configured the Actiontec to retrieve it's IP address via DHCP.
That would imply that you are using a LAN-to-WAN connection, since only the Actiontec WAN interface pulls a DHCP address.
If the Actiontec is connected LAN-to-WAN, this would also imply the STBs are double NAT'ed which would explain issues with VZ Central.
OTOH, you say the STBs are pulling the correct IP addresses and DHCP server is disabled in the Actiontec, which would imply the LAN-to-LAN connection is working.
There should NOT be a need to create a DMZ in the Buffalo. In the Part 4 FAQ, the Actiontec is acting ONLY as a switch and MOCA bridge. It is not functioning as a router.
Please post more specific information about your configuration. | |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by More Fiber  :Interesting. I'm not aware of anyone that has tried to access the STBs from VZ Central. It's how the remote DVR feature works in IMG 1.6 to schedule programming, set up favorites, etc via the web. | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by darcilicious :said by More Fiber :Interesting. I'm not aware of anyone that has tried to access the STBs from VZ Central. It's how the remote DVR feature works in IMG 1.6 to schedule programming, set up favorites, etc via the web. My statement was specifically in reference to the various bridging configurations. | |
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| Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
1 edit | Ok to answer your questions. Here is the connection diagram:
ONT->cat5->[WAN Port-Buffalo-LAN Port]->Cat5->[Lan Port- ActionTec]
So they are connected Lan to Lan as you suggested. The IP configuration on the ActionTec is that it acquires it's IP Address via DHCP from the Buffalo. The internal DHCP server of the ActionTec which serves the COAX and Ethernet Lan ports is disabled. All IP's in the network are given out by the Buffalo, this inludes the ActionTec and the STB's.
Like I stated, this configuration does 'work' however I'm missing the ability to use the FIOS Central site to see my DVR's.
I have tried enabling the DHCP server on the ActionTec so that it gives the STB's their IP Addresses but they still seemed to get their IP's from the Buffalo. I may have to tweak with this config more. I'm not sure how much it matters what router the STB's get their IP's from.
I hope that clarifies things. | |
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| | ProFiOSDude
Premium
join:2005-05-27
Chesapeake, VA
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? Probably because Verizon sees the MAC address of your Linksys and knows it's not an Actiontec. There might be a pre-linkup where Verizon checks the status of your STBs, but since the the Linksys cannot communicate with the STB's in the same manner as the Actiontec, it doesn't allow it. IMHO.
PFD | |
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Lee GWB
Yaco
Premium
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ | Hi,
I can "SEE" my boxes via Verizon.com. It that what you are inquiring about?
Lee | |
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| | ProFiOSDude
Premium
join:2005-05-27
Chesapeake, VA | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? No. Interaction between the STB and Verizon would probably have to go through the Actiontec. Don't think they would bother coding for every possible router.
PFD | |
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| | Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
4 edits | said by Lee GWB :Hi, I can "SEE" my boxes via Verizon.com. It that what you are inquiring about? Lee I can "SEE" my STB's also, just as I have been able to since I set up my account on the site, but I cannot interact with them as I should be able to. The FIOS TV Central site, for those of you not in the know, allows a FIOS Home Media DVR subscriber to access their DVR's from the Web site. This allows you to see how much space you have used, see(and delete) the current recordings, and schedule stuff to record that you don't have a timer set for.
Like darcilicious said, it's nice to be able to do this remotely. I don't know about the rest of you but I've often gone on vacation, or otherwise been away from the house and forgot to set a timer for something I really wanted to see. This provides the ability to do that from a remote location. | |
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joe01880
join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA | Why would someone want to go to all that trouble? | |
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| ProFiOSDude
Premium
join:2005-05-27
Chesapeake, VA | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? Someone at work tells you about this great show, but you won't get back home in time to set the DVR to record. Now you can.
Things like that...I don't see myself doing it, but there are people...
PFD | |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? Better yet you're out of town; see a commercial on the hotel TV and want to record it.
I'm able to do this now with Vista Media Center via the MSN tv guide. It kinda rocks  | |
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joe01880
join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| No, my question was not about what you wrote ProFios, it was in reference to phyclones orginal post.
Using other routers buffalo's or whatever the hell they are when the router supplied from Verizon does a fine job.
Only to avoid the rental from Verizon? That can be negotiated. To mask your ip address perhaps?
I do not understand the desire or necessity to have to go through all that to watch TV????? | |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by joe01880 :Using other routers buffalo's or whatever the hell they are when the router supplied from Verizon does a fine job. Actually, for a notable number of people, the Actiontec does NOT work well. Some game server requests (eg STEAM) for example, often bring the AT to its knees (because of its small NAT tabel). So do some torrent clients.
So folks bridge the AT to keep the TV/MoCA functionality and use their own, more robust router for Internet access. | |
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| | | | Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
1 edit | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by darcilicious :said by joe01880 :Using other routers buffalo's or whatever the hell they are when the router supplied from Verizon does a fine job. Actually, for a notable number of people, the Actiontec does NOT work well. Some game server requests (eg STEAM) for example, often bring the AT to its knees (because of its small NAT tabel). So do some torrent clients. So folks bridge the AT to keep the TV/MoCA functionality and use their own, more robust router for Internet access. Yeah, what she said.
Thank you darcilicious for answering for me | |
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| | | jwdv22
join:2008-01-15
Phoenixville, PA
·Verizon FIOS
| Because there are other things that Buffalo router with DD-WRT can do that ActionTec can't. Search Wikipedia for DD-WRT, I wanted to do this so I can setup a VPN. Then my laptop can access my Slingbox through the VPN, hence tricking the Slingbox to giving me the full upload, not just 1.5(which is locked down my the slingbox) | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| said by joe01880 :Only to avoid the rental from Verizon? That can be negotiated. The Actiontec router is not rented. It is included "free" as part of the service with either internet and/or TV. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by joe01880 :Using other routers buffalo's or whatever the hell they are when the router supplied from Verizon does a fine job. The ActionTec, while a decent router, has a very small NAT table, a crappy interface, and is buggy. Try setting a static DHCP lease with the current version. You have a 50/50 chance of getting it to work, and then that only happens 10% of the time.
I have a very similar setup to Psyclone except I use an original WRT54GS router with DD-WRT loaded. It's interface is SO much better and It Just Works™. I also use VoIP so reliability is a key factor for me. | |
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Teasip
join:2001-05-14
Plano, TX | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? And to think that I'm still PPPoE in ex-GTE area. | |
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| | | | | | JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router?
I want to say @ July 06, though I'm not positive, is when FIOS went to DHCP. All connections prior to that were PPPoE, which was switched to open PPPoE, without regard to area. Verizon has never been willing to switch those to DHCP, even though they continually promised they would. We are easily exposed when we run tracerts, as that 10.x.x.x hop shows up when we hit the edge router.
Tracing route to www.dslreports.com [209.123.109.175]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 5 ms 4 ms 4 ms 10.7.30.1
3 5 ms 4 ms 4 ms P2-3.LCR-02.PITBPA.verizon-gni.net [130.81.32.194]
There was even a time on DSL when they intended to switch Ex-GTE to PPPoE. May have occurred during your new employment absence. Only lasted under 2 months, for new Ex-GTE sing ups in about 5 states before it was abandoned, so they are few, and very far between. Just saw one of those over there a couple weeks ago.
It's still Verizon, YMMV, and all rules have exceptions. | |
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jwdv22
join:2008-01-15
Phoenixville, PA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Also I think I heard somewhere that the STB need to be in the .100 range. I might have read this in the 1.6 IMG thread, but can't remember. I think it cause problems when the STB were not in that range.
**EDIT*** also how many DVR's do you have? One MR-DVR and a few other DVR's? Does streaming within the network still work? Really curious because I was planning on doing the same thing but didn't want to lose my MR-DVR functionality. THanks again | |
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| Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
4 edits | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by jwdv22 :Also I think I heard somewhere that the STB need to be in the .100 range. I might have read this in the 1.6 IMG thread, but can't remember. I think it cause problems when the STB were not in that range. **EDIT*** also how many DVR's do you have? One MR-DVR and a few other DVR's? Does streaming within the network still work? Really curious because I was planning on doing the same thing but didn't want to lose my MR-DVR functionality. THanks again I did also read something about the .100 range requirement, however I thought this was 'required' just to get the VOD/guide data to even work in this configuration. If that's the case then I've already proven this statement to be untrue. I will try this and see if it resolves my issue.
To answer your question, I only have the MR-DVR at the moment and a second SD STB. By following the FAQ that I linked, it's supposed to retain the streaming feature, I presume both streaming features. Keep in mind that with the MR-DVR it does 2 kinds of streaming; music and pictures from a networked PC to the MR-DVR and recordings on the MR-DVR to other STB's in the house.
I honestly haven't tested streaming from the MR-DVR to the STB since I set this up. I did however test PC to MR-DVR streaming and it does work. I presume the former would work as well.
I have read, and in my exercise, proven that in order for the PC streaming to work that it has to be on the same subnet as the MR-DVR.
I assumed putting the ActionTec in the DMZ of the Buffalo would allow the STB's to be seen from the FIOS TV Central site but it appears that is not the case. I am going to play around with the IP addressing a bit more to see if I can't resolve the issue.
I don't know who authored the FAQ but it seems that it needs some tweaking. Step 12 for example says to 'Set your new router gateway address to 192.168.1.1' I assume this to mean to set your non ActionTec router's gateway to this ip address. I did this and it caused me to not be able to pull an IP address from the WAN. It really doesn't make sense, particularly when previous steps direct you change the ActionTec from it's default of 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.2 with no step to change it back to the .1.* range.
If I get this to work, I will help to update the existing FAQ to eliminate any ambiguities and inconsistencies. | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
1 edit | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by Psyclone :I don't know who authored the FAQ but it seems that it needs some tweaking. Step 12 for example says to 'Set your new router gateway address to 192.168.1.1' I assume this to mean to set your non Actiontec router's gateway to this ip address. I did this and it caused me to not be able to pull an IP address from the WAN. The FAQ was authored by birdfeedr . I reviewed and edited the FAQ. There is a feedback link on the FAQ page.
Step 12 as currently written:
12. Log in to your new router to verify and change any settings. Make sure you change your router password off the default value. Set your new router gateway address to 192.168.1.1, subnet 255.255.255.0. Also set it to distribute DHCP addresses in the range from 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.199. You can use the lower addresses for static IPs. Reboot router and PC if you made any changes. I've revised the wording as follows to clarify:
In your your new router DHCP Server settings set the gateway address to 192.168.1.1, subnet 255.255.255.0.
which means that you need to set the gateway IP address and subnet that the Buffalo will distribute to it's clients. This does not mean the Buffalo's WAN IP address. Clients that request DHCP addresses from the Buffalo need to receive back that gateway address and subnet mask. If the wording needs to be further clarified, I'm sure birdfeedr would be glad to do so.
said by Psyclone :It really doesn't make sense, particularly when previous steps direct you change the Actiontec from it's default of 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.2 with no step to change it back to the .1 range. Step 6 instructs you to set the IP address of the Actiontec to 192.168.1.2. This ensures that the IP address of the Actiontec does not conflict with the Buffalo. The Actiontec is still on the 192.168.1.x range. Your statement "no step to change it back to the .1 range" implies that you moved the Actiontec to a different subnet. The Actiontec must be on the same subnet as the Buffalo for MediaShare to work. At no point did the Part 4 FAQ instructions refer to moving the Actiontec
If the Buffalo can not pull a WAN IP address, then you have a configuration error or a WAN DHCP lease issue. I recommend doing a hard reset on both routers; follow the instructions from the beginning as written; and verify that everything works before trying to incorporate any customizations. | |
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| | | Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
4 edits | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by More Fiber :said by Psyclone :I don't know who authored the FAQ but it seems that it needs some tweaking. Step 12 for example says to 'Set your new router gateway address to 192.168.1.1' I assume this to mean to set your non Actiontec router's gateway to this ip address. I did this and it caused me to not be able to pull an IP address from the WAN. The FAQ was authored by birdfeedr . I reviewed and edited the FAQ. There is a feedback link on the FAQ page. Step 12 as currently written: 12. Log in to your new router to verify and change any settings. Make sure you change your router password off the default value. Set your new router gateway address to 192.168.1.1, subnet 255.255.255.0. Also set it to distribute DHCP addresses in the range from 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.199. You can use the lower addresses for static IPs. Reboot router and PC if you made any changes. I've revised the wording as follows to clarify: In your your new router DHCP Server settings set the gateway address to 192.168.1.1, subnet 255.255.255.0.which means that you need to set the gateway IP address and subnet that the Buffalo will distribute to it's clients. This does not mean the Buffalo's WAN IP address. Clients that request DHCP addresses from the Buffalo need to receive back that gateway address and subnet mask. If the wording needs to be further clarified, I'm sure birdfeedr would be glad to do so. said by Psyclone :It really doesn't make sense, particularly when previous steps direct you change the Actiontec from it's default of 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.2 with no step to change it back to the .1 range. Step 6 instructs you to set the IP address of the Actiontec to 192.168.1.2. This ensures that the IP address of the Actiontec does not conflict with the Buffalo. The Actiontec is still on the 192.168.1.x range. Your statement "no step to change it back to the .1 range" implies that you moved the Actiontec to a different subnet. The Actiontec must be on the same subnet as the Buffalo for MediaShare to work. At no point did the Part 4 FAQ instructions refer to moving the Actiontec If the Buffalo can not pull a WAN IP address, then you have a configuration error or a WAN DHCP lease issue. I recommend doing a hard reset on both routers; follow the instructions from the beginning as written; and verify that everything works before trying to incorporate any customizations. Thanks for clarifying this should help future folks in getting their configuration to work, it's clearer now. As you can tell I thought this was referring to the WAN side of things which is why I stated this didn't make any sense since the WAN gateway would be auto configured
as part of the DHCP process for the Buffalo. At any rate to clarify, I am getting a DHCP(Actually PPOE in my case - semantics ) address and am not having any issues with connectivity as it pertains to VOD, guide data, or Internet access from any device on my LAN. I do in fact have all devices on the same subnet. Again to clarify:
Buffalo:
WAN config : PPOE - pulling from VZ servers
LAN IP : 192.168.1.1
DHCP server ip range : 192.168.1.2-192.168.1.28
ActionTec:
LAN config : DHCP - pulling IP from Buffalo (statically set at the Buffalo to 192.168.1.26)
DHCP Server : disabled - Not leasing IP's to any networked device
STB's receive IP addresses from the Buffalo, which assigns them 192.168.1.27 and 192.168.1.28
Again, everything works in this configuration. I also want to point out the requirement for the devices to be in the .1.* subnet for VOD and Guide data to work. This is NOT true. I have successfully used the above configuration with everything being in the 0.* subnet and everything(except the VZ Central site) worked. | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
3 edits | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by Psyclone :everything works in this configuration. I also want to point out the requirement for the devices to be in the .1.* subnet for VOD and Guide data to work. This is NOT true. I have successfully used the above configuration with everything being in the 0.* subnet and everything(except the VZ Central site) worked. You're correct, any subnet will work, as long as all media sharing devices are on that subnet. I don't believe the FAQ states that use of the 1.x subnet is required. We had to pick a subnet to use as an example, and that was as good as any.
To Psyclone , flashcore , and mwangen
While I understand that you would prefer to use the DHCP server in your respective primary routers, I would like to ask you to try the following as a test:
•Disable the DHCP server in your primary router.
•Enable the DHCP server in the Actiontec.
•Reboot the STBs (disconnect & reconnect AC)
•Check if you can access the STBs from VZ TV Central.
If this works, we should be able to configure both DHCP servers to be active, each with it's own IP address range, with the Actiontec serving only the STBs. | |
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| | | | | mwangen
join:2006-10-26
Beaverton, OR
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by More Fiber :While I understand that you would prefer to use the DHCP server in your respective primary routers, I would like to ask you to try the following as a test: •Disable the DHCP server in your primary router. •Enable the DHCP server in the Actiontec. •Reboot the STBs (disconnect & reconnect AC) •Check if you can access the STBs from VZ TV Central. If this works, we should be able to configure both DHCP servers to be active, each with it's own IP address range, with the Actiontec serving only the STBs. I'll give this a try tomorrow though I'm not sure why this would help. An IP address is an IP address. Why should it matter where it's coming from? Especially when both routers give out the same IP of 192.168.1.100 | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by mwangen :I'm not sure why this would help. An IP address is an IP address. Why should it matter where it's coming from? It's not as simple as just an IP address. DHCP is an entire protocol where the client can request specific information and the server can return specific information. For an overview of the DHCP protocol, see this link:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHCP
There are lots of options. See this link regarding option code 60.
»www.cisco.com/warp/public/109/cn···l#topic1
Most home routers do not have the ability to specify option code 60 information to be returned to the client. As I explained in an earlier post in this thread, the STBs and the Actiontec do indeed exchange option code 60 information.
From what I've seen in the router and in Wireshark, URL information is sent, along with setting QOS in the router.
This may indeed not make any difference, however, IMO, it is worth a try. | |
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| | | | | | | mwangen
join:2006-10-26
Beaverton, OR
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by More Fiber :Most home routers do not have the ability to specify option code 60 information to be returned to the client. As I explained in an earlier post in this thread, the STBs and the Actiontec do indeed exchange option code 60 information. IPCop does support DHCP Option 60. What info needs to be provided here? | |
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| | | | | | | | Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? I think the Vendor Class ID needs to be set to IP-STB, this according to page 46 of the ActionTec manual. I also found info alluding to this on another BBR post here | |
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| | | | | | | | | Hooper
Premium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by Psyclone :I think the Vendor Class ID needs to be set to IP-STB, this according to page 46 of the ActionTec manual. I also found info alluding to this on another BBR post here That DHCP option is for QoS and nothing else. Forget it even exists. | |
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| | | | | Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
| said by More Fiber :said by Psyclone :everything works in this configuration. I also want to point out the requirement for the devices to be in the .1.* subnet for VOD and Guide data to work. This is NOT true. I have successfully used the above configuration with everything being in the 0.* subnet and everything(except the VZ Central site) worked. You're correct, any subnet will work, as long as all media sharing devices are on that subnet. I don't believe the FAQ states that use of the 1.x subnet is required. We had to pick a subnet to use as an example, and that was as good as any.
To Psyclone , flashcore , and mwangen While I understand that you would prefer to use the DHCP server in your respective primary routers, I would like to ask you to try the following as a test: •Disable the DHCP server in your primary router. •Enable the DHCP server in the Actiontec. •Reboot the STBs (disconnect & reconnect AC) •Check if you can access the STBs from VZ TV Central. If this works, we should be able to configure both DHCP servers to be active, each with it's own IP address range, with the Actiontec serving only the STBs. I tried your last suggestion(2 dhcp servers with ActionTec serving only STB) last night and it didn't work. Do you know how I would obtain the Vendor Class ID info? DD-WRT does have a place to enter this information. I'd like to try it and see if it helps. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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| | jwdv22
join:2008-01-15
Phoenixville, PA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | said by Psyclone : By following the FAQ that I linked Can you link again, so I can follow it. I can't seem to find your link. Thank you.
***EDIT NEVERMIND***** | |
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flashcore
join:2007-01-23
Lutherville Timonium, MD
1 edit | I just figured I would debunk a lot of the theories in here.
First I am having the exact same problem as Psyclone, I am using a DLink DGL-4500 along with a NIM instead of the Actiontec and the website can not see my box's DVR data. The guide, streaming to other STB's and VOD work fine, in fact the VOD actually works better then with the actiontec.
I am using the cloned MAC address from my original Actiontec so Verizon would not know my router is not the Actiontec.
All of my STB's are in the 192.168.1.100-192.168.1.150 range set from my windows 2008 DHCP server using static lease's so they always get the same IP's, the Multiroom DVR gets 192.168.1.100 every time.
I suspect this problem has more to do with some feature on the Actiontec that allows certain traffic or specific verizon IP's to bypass the firewall completely to communicate with the box's (I have not confirmed this yet but I suspect that is what is going on). I have not had time to mess with it yet however I plan on mirroring the switch port I have my NIM hooked to and using wireshark to try and find out exactly where the box's are connecting to for the guide and vod data. Maybe with that information I can narrow down exactly what rules need to be on a 3rd party router to enable the website features. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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mwangen
join:2006-10-26
Beaverton, OR | Psyclone a little off topic here, but I find it interesting that you are running PPoE. I'm in Beaverton and I'm getting my IP from Verizon via DHCP. | |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by mwangen :Psyclone a little off topic here, but I find it interesting that you are running PPoE. I'm in Beaverton and I'm getting my IP from Verizon via DHCP. Verizon has never deployed PPoE for exGTE areas (that I'm aware of), and definitely never in Oregon -- not for DSL and not for FiOS. | |
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| | Psyclone
join:2002-09-29
Beaverton, OR
2 edits | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by darcilicious :said by mwangen :Psyclone a little off topic here, but I find it interesting that you are running PPoE. I'm in Beaverton and I'm getting my IP from Verizon via DHCP. Verizon has never deployed PPoE for exGTE areas (that I'm aware of), and definitely never in Oregon -- not for DSL and not for FiOS. *shrug* I have been a Verizon customer for 7-8 years now. I started with 3rd party DSL leasing a line from Verizon. It was PPoE then. After about 2 years I made the switch to Verizon as my ISP to a full Verizon DSL package. Subsequently I upgraded to FIOS Internet and most recently FIOS TV. I am not sure why I'm not on DHCP. | |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by Psyclone :said by darcilicious :said by mwangen :Psyclone a little off topic here, but I find it interesting that you are running PPoE. I'm in Beaverton and I'm getting my IP from Verizon via DHCP. Verizon has never deployed PPoE for exGTE areas (that I'm aware of), and definitely never in Oregon -- not for DSL and not for FiOS. *shrug* I have been a Verizon customer for 6-7 years now. I started with 3rd party DSL leasing a line from Verizon. It was PPoE then and has never been changed. I am not sure why I'm not on DHCP. Wow, that really is odd. I was using GTE/ISDN before it became Verizon -- perhaps there was a sliver of time when they configured some COs with PPPoE for some customers. The vast majority of folks in exGTE don't have it, that's for sure. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by darcilicious :said by mwangen :Psyclone a little off topic here, but I find it interesting that you are running PPoE. I'm in Beaverton and I'm getting my IP from Verizon via DHCP. Verizon has never deployed PPoE for exGTE areas (that I'm aware of), and definitely never in Oregon -- not for DSL and not for FiOS. Don't tell that to my setup. I was one of the first adopters in my area and all subscribers at that time were PPPoE. New installs are DHCP, but older ones around here were never migrated. And I'm most definitely a ex-GTE area. | |
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mwangen
join:2006-10-26
Beaverton, OR
| Well I'm glad we have this thread going. I spent a few hours trying to get the Remote DVR feature working a few weekends back and basically gave up after running Wireshark and not being able to see anything that would cause this not to work with a 3rd party router. I figured sooner or later someone would start a thread and ppl that are much smarter than me in the network arena would figure this out =) So come on guys what's the problem  | |
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Hooper
Premium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA
1 edit | My guess is that there is some code in the Actiontec that registers your STB's with the Verizon Central website. Same way when you call in and the FSC reps can see the boxes. If you are using your own router or even their DLink, they can't see them. I hate to break the news, but Verizon Central will probably never work without the actiontec as the lead router. | |
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| mwangen
join:2006-10-26
Beaverton, OR
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by Hooper :My guess is that there is some code in the Actiontec that registers your STB's with the Verizon Central website. Same way when you call in and the FSC reps can see the boxes. If you are using your own router or even their DLink, they can't see them. I hate to break the news, but Verizon Central will probably never work without the actiontec as the lead router. I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I certainly didn't see anything of that sort when I monitored my network traffic using Wireshark. | |
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mattcurf8
join:2005-07-22
Hillsboro, OR
| Has anybody taken a look at the DHCP transaction between the Actiontec router and Verizon FIOS DHCP server? Perhaps there is some additional DHCP information there that configures the Verizon back-end to work correctly with FIOS TV Central?
I've looked through a lot of traffic from Verizon to my non-AT router, and I don't see any indication that anything is sent to my router when I log into the TV Central website from another network. When I put the Actiontec router in, TV Central works. If I then substitute the Actiontec out with my router without releasing the DHCP lease (I use MAC cloning in my router), TV Central still works for an hour or so.
-Matt | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by mattcurf8 :When I put the Actiontec router in, TV Central works. If I then substitute the Actiontec out with my router without releasing the DHCP lease (I use MAC cloning in my router), TV Central still works for an hour or so. Good discovery. That certainly seems to imply that STB specific information is being exchanged with the VZ DHCP server during DHCP lease negotiation.
The "hour or so" would be when the Actiontec's original DHCP lease expires and your router attempts to renew the lease, but does not send the STB specific information.
I've run Wireshark on the LAN side, but have yet looked at the WAN side DHCP lease negotiation. | |
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mwangen
join:2006-10-26
Beaverton, OR | Any news? Has anyone had the chance to monitor the WAN DHCP traffic between VZ and the AT? | |
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tyrius
join:2006-08-28
Bothell, WA
| At least I'm not the only one having problems with this. I actually spoke with the FSC and the only response was, "That feature is still in BETA so there's not a lot I can do."
I was OK with the ActionTec until the latest firmware release crippled static addresses via DHCP. At that point I turned on DHCP and DNS on a Linux box I had laying around. I tried using FiOS TV Central after I re-enabled this configuration.
One interesting thing to note: if you look at "My Network" on the ActionTec do your STBs show as STBs or as computers? My HD STB shows as an STB, but the HM-DVR doesn't. I'm not sure if its a red herring or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there. The host name for the STB is "IP-STB2", but the host name for the DVR is "StaticIP Client." I've got my DHCP server set up to send the host-name back to the client but this doesn't appear to have done much good. | |
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Silver_2000
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Carrollton, TX
·Verizon FIOS
| Its news tome that you can see the DVRs on the website
Ive had TV for 3 years or more - im ppoe
Im using a Wrt54g running ddwrt and I can see the dvrs I just dont have any options on the website to do anything with them .. In reading the site you have to be a home media customer ... I dont use the home media function its way tooo buggy - i just have 2 dvrs
Is there anyway I can program the DVrs over the internet without it ? | |
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imt
@optonline.net
| I have read the issues regarding programming the DVR from Verizon Central. At this point I do not have that option since we are not on that version of the IMG. But I had thought of some other things that someone can test that I didn't see listed here.
I did see that someone had mentioned that they first hooked up the actiontec direct to the ONT, like a normal install, and they were able to program the DVR from verizon central, and then they hooked back up their router and it still worked for about an hr. Then someone else mentioned that they even tried opening all UDP and TCP ports I believe, on their own router, and still can't program the DVR.
So out of all of the things that people have tried there is one I see missing. The answer might lie in the actiontec software and possibly only sends out this data or allows the connection through the WAN port on the actiontec.
Going back to the person that hooked back up the actiontec and then was able to program the dvr and then went back to their own router and still could see the dvr for about an hour, were you able to still program or make programming changes on the DVR for that hr before it stopped working? If so then this could be a ping that is sent from the STB's or a release of data approx every hr, via the actiontec software that is sent to verizon central telling the site that you or the STB's are "on line". As I said, maybe this is part of the actiontec software to send this signal at predetermined intervals but only through the wan port because this is how the signal would pass in a normal config. Remember that data goes from the cox on the data side through the wan port (coax or cat5e) to the ONT. With the setup described here you are only using the lan port on the actiontec.
What would happen if you did the following:
Test1
1) On your own router. Make sure that you have an open static address for the lan side.
2) On the actiontec, set the Wan IP address to one of the free addresses in the static range from your own routers lan. Subnet should be the same 255.255.255.0 and the DHCP set to your own routers gateway address. Or the other option is to set the actiontec to automatically get the address and it will just pull from your own routers pool of DHCP addresses. (However, this would affect you trying the second option if this doesn't work).
3) Set the lan network to use a different address range. I would suggest using a lan address of 192.168.x.1, where x is something other than 1 (i.e like your house number). Then enable DHCP on the actiontec again. This will then assign addresses to the STB's, which will still be the only things connected to this router.
4) Unplug the cat5e from the lan port on the back of the actiontec and put it in the wan port instead.
Yes, I believe this will double nat the addresses but only for the stuff connected to the actiontec.
I cannot test this myself since as I said we don't have the home media DVR and aren't on the latest version of IMG yet anyway.
If this doesn't help then the next thing to try would be to enable the DMZ on your own router, assuming you have that option, and set it to the static address of the router that you would have done in step #2 above. This then will pass any and all traffic to the actiontec that is not destined for a computer on your own routers lan.
I'm thinking that maybe this may be the ticket. Please though don't just go right to the second option for testing. Would be good to know if one could do this without the need to open the DMZ on your own router since other may want to use that option for some other purpose on their lan.
Anyone want to test this out? | |
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Silver_2000
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Carrollton, TX | Dont forget that many people - Like me dont have actiontec routers - we were given old dlink POS and a sep box for VOD connection
Wonder if that will impact the use of online programming | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by Silver_2000 :Don't forget that many people - Like me don't have Actiontec routers - we were given old D-Link POS and a separate box for VOD connection The VZ supplied D-Link + Nim-100 is a VZ supported configuration. If it does not provide remote access to the DVRs, then you should raise the issue directly with VZ.
This thread is for users that are using non-VZ supported routers and have issues with VZ TV Central not reaching their DVRs through their own routers. | |
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IMT
@verizon.net
| When I made the last post I was going to mention this was well to see if anyone using the dlink routers have the most recent IMG and can access the DVR via the web site. I believe the Dlink was one that was avail off the shelf and not just made for verizon , like the actiontec model. | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by IMT :
I believe the Dlink was one that was avail off the shelf and not just made for verizon , like the Actiontec model. I believe a few of the very early internet only installs may have been vanilla D-Links, but when FIOS-TV was introduced, the VDI-604 and VDI-624 proprietary versions were deployed. | |
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IMT
@optonline.net
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? Question is are these really proprietary version of the router or did verizon just add a V to the item. The Dlink is the same number without the V. also, all of the firmware upgrades are direct from D-link. This is even acknowledged when downloading from verizons site.
While this is forum is for users using non-standard installation, it would be good to know if this works under the D-link/ Motorolla config. If this this does then technically this should also work utilizing the actiontec as well. If Verizon then required users to change to an actiontec to get this info it then may mean that the only way one can program the DVR via the website is to have the actiontec as the primary device.
The actiontec basically merged the two devices together to have one device and a simpler install for the tec's. When you look at the motorolla cat5-coax bridge. The motorolla is acting as a router for all of the cable boxes in the home and passing it to the cat5 port to the homes router (dlink in this case). Would be also good to know if users who use their own router with the Motorolla coax bridge can program their DVR's. If so then the Dlink then really has nothing special and there really should be a way to make the actiontec work.
As I mentioned in a previous post, in the standard install the actiontec is the primary device on the network and all internet traffic passes from the coax network, via the bridge out the WAN port or vice versa. In order to then use the actiontec like the motorolla, since you are using your own router, it then seems to make sense to hookup as if this was just the coax brindge and not a "router". Thus remove the lan ports from the equation and you are left with a coax port and a WAN cat5e port.
If you had the home media option, you are supposed to be able to pull photos and music off of your computers on your lan via the settop box. Don't know if with the typical install mentioned in this forum if this works as well.
It may be that the actiontec has hardcoded router rules that prevent certain traffic from passing via the cat5 lan ports to the coax port. i.e. to prevent hacking via the home network.
Again these rules may be built into the actiontec to allow this traffic to pass from the wan to the lan. Its possible that the STB's use multicasting or something like it to talk to verizon with the status of the boxes. You wouldn't typically want this traffic constantly flowing over your lan so this again maybe restricted to only go through the wan.
I hope someone would test what I had mentioned about using the wan port to connect to your home router vs the lan ports. This may be the key here. | |
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imt
@optonline.net
| said by Psyclone :All, said by tgreaves : said by mwangen : I might be wrong, but I don't think this is a firewall issue. I port forwarded ALL TCP and UDP ports on my firewall to the DVR and it still didn't work. I monitored my firewall for discarded packets and there weren't any. Hmm, very strange.. It would have to be a port somewhere that allows the website to talk to the dvr.. Maybe the actiontec talkes to the dvr and the website talks to the actiontec... Might want to try forwarding all ports to the actiontec, that should work since thats what the standard install of FiOS is doing.. I'm not sure how port forwarding all ports to the actiontec would make a difference. The actiontec is only used as a bridge to go from coax to Ethernet. The DVR gets it's IP from the third party router. It's not possible to my knowledge to run this like the regular FiOS install. There isn't a way to have the DVR DCHP an IP from the actiontec and have it use the third party routers gateway. So the only configuration you can run is with it double natted and have the actiontec be on it's own subnet. In this configuration however you will not be able to use media manager. So I don't see this as a viable solution. As stated mwangen and what I was saying in my posts is that port forwarding has no affect here. If IGMP or multicasting is being used the logs might not pickup that type of traffic.
What I am trying to state in my previous post is that the STB itself may send out certain traffic. In a normal hookup that traffic flows over the coax LAN and out through the WAN. Now there may be software built into the coax bridge that talks to the cable box on the lan and send out info through the wan. Now maybe verizon sends traffic but not destined to a particular IP address or port. Maybe it just goes to the router. There could be software built into the actiontec so that when this traffic is sent to the WAN port it knows that this "traffic" is forwarded to the coax bridge and to the STB's. Again this traffic could be multicasting messages. This is my guess.
I do wish someone would test out what I had proposed by using the actiontec's wan port to see if this solves the issue.
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| mwangen
join:2006-10-26
Beaverton, OR
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? said by imt :
I do wish someone would test out what I had proposed by using the actiontec's wan port to see if this solves the issue. I hear what you're saying imt and you may be right that this issue is caused by some proprietary stuff in the actiontec that handles special traffic to only go out over the wan. However, running with double nat will disable media manager functionality. At least for me being able to use media manager is more important than being able to remotely program my dvr. I'd like to do both, but if I have to choose between the two I'd rather be able to stream video to my TV than being able to remotely program my dvr. I might just try your suggestion over the weekend for grins, but even if the remote programming works in that configuration I will not be running double nat. | |
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tyrius
join:2006-08-28
Bothell, WA
| I just noticed a new entry in the port forwarding rules of my A/T:
UDP port 63145 is being forwarded to my HM-DVR. Is it possible than when you enable remote DVR functionality Verizon uses CPE WAN Management to add this port forwarding rule to the A/T? Mind you, I supposedly enabled the remote functionality a week ago and just today saw the port forwarding rule.
The forwarding rule is kind of weird and I'm not sure what to make of it (i.e. how you would do this on a Linksys or D-Link router): the network device reads 192.168.1.100 (the IP of my DVR) and the network address reads 192.168.1.100:63145. The Public IP field is blank, but the Remote Host IP field reads 'Verizon FiOS Service.' I dumped the A/T configuration and saw the configuration entry for this rule, but its long enough that I won't add it here. If somebody is interested let me know and I can PM a screen shot of the pertinent parts of the port forwarding table (HTML) and/or the chuck of data from my A/T configuration. | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? Interesting.
It could possibly have been done through the CPE WAN interface, or it also might have been done through UPNP from the DVR. I have UPNP turned off on my Actiontec, and I'm not able to see my DVRs from VZ TV Central.
I will PM you for the config details. Could you let me know if you have UPNP enabled (ADVANCED->UPNP). I'm assuming the Actiontec is your primary router and you can see your DVRs from VZ TV central. | |
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tyrius
join:2006-08-28
Bothell, WA
1 edit | I do have UPNP enabled, but I've had it enabled for a while: I'd think the port mapping would have been defined before today.
Besides, the entries added by MSN Messenger can be modified where this new entry cannot. | |
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See 13 replies to this post |
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rootless
@swbell.net | does any one tried to see if Actiontec needs factory reset to make the fios tv central read my recordings? | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? And what would the point of that be?
There is no question that the DVR can be accessed remotely from Verizon TV Central, if the Actiontec is the primary router.
The purpose of this thread is to try and find a way to do so if the Actiontec is NOT the primary router. | |
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| | mikemrossi
join:2000-03-11
Nanuet, NY
| Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? I hooked it up like in WAN to LAN FAQ and I get all the VOD data, but as others noted, since the aactiontec is not the primary router, i cannot see if from the central site.
I have not tried hooking it to the DMZ of the primary router but will give that a try. | |
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| | | mikemrossi
join:2000-03-11
Nanuet, NY | Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router? i hooked it to the DMZ and still no access from the fios website.
One note, in all the configurations, I can do a health check from the myverizon site. | |
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join:2008-11-10
Ontario, CA |  Re: FIOS TV Central website access with Non AT Router?
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See 24 replies to this post |
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RAH
join:2007-03-16
West Chester, PA
| I have been unable to use the Remote DVR feature. After "activation" I have been unable to "update"; I get an error stating to "try back later". I called FIOS tech support and we tried about everything. I have a Linksys router with a Verizon NIM. We recycled the router, NIM and cable box. Checked my IP addresses to be sure the cable box was allowed - it was. Tech support checked with a Verizon network technician and said it is not the Linksys/NIM combo. As a result Verizon issued a ticket to have their network people investigate. Any suggestions? | |
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