 Zak_D_HPremium,VIP
join:2007-01-04
Salt Lake City, UT
kudos:4 | reply to OZO
Re: "Official" email migration thread said by OZO:said by Zak_D_H:OZO, There is no way to send through smtp.gmail.com without the from saying your @dslextreme.com E-mail address. If you want it to show as being from your Domain you have to have us unblock port 25 and then send using your own domains outgoing mail-server. That's a complete show-stopper for me. I can't use the new DSLE (gmail-based) mail service at all... May I call it an "exciting news"? Can I return back to my old Outlook settings and use smtp.dslextreme.com again? Why don't you just send using your Private domains outgoing mailserver on port 25? |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | Simply because I assume that DSLE provided smtp/pop server is more reliable than one that I may run in my home environment.
If my DSL line is down (and it happens time to time) - your server is still running and collecting my important mails. |
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 cowboySo Much For SubtletyPremium
join:2000-03-14
Morgan Hill, CA | said by OZO:Simply because I assume that DSLE provided smtp/pop server is more reliable than one that I may run in my home environment. If my DSL line is down (and it happens time to time) - your server is still running and collecting my important mails. You're mixing up to completely differrent things here:
1) An Outbound mail origination issue
2) An psuedo inbound store & forward (aka MX)
The failure of the first, in your case, has no bearing on the abilities of the second !
These days, secondary MX has fallen into some disfavour due to the intractability of proper backscatter prevention if not all the MX are under your control (like in my situation). However, some MX capability is needed - though things get a little complicated with a setup like you're attempting.
I run my own outbound/inbound mail - and pay for secondary DNS and MX service (nominal $)... it has suited me fine for many years 
I don't see an easy way out, shy of paying for remote hosting - I hear our ISP even does that 
A change like this was bound to have some fallout - and you happen to be in the worst spot 
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Richard Nelson |
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 dslx_gmPremium,VIP
join:2002-12-26
Winnetka, CA
kudos:15 | reply to OZO
said by OZO:Simply because I assume that DSLE provided smtp/pop server is more reliable than one that I may run in my home environment. If my DSL line is down (and it happens time to time) - your server is still running and collecting my important mails. Ozo,
I assume that you have your domain registrar simply point all email received to your @dslextreme.com address. To get around the issue I would recommend that you setup a free Google Apps domain edition account. You can then forward all incoming mail received to that address to your @dslextreme.com account. All incoming mail would remain the same as your current setup. You could then use smtp.gmail.com with your username@domain.com for the settings. When you sent email through those settings the Google platform would see you as authorized to send. Your domain and email address would therefore appear. I have been using Google Apps in a similar fashion for my own domains for the past few months and have been very happy. I used to run my own server. Though I had the advantage of hosting it in our data center, it is much less of a headache now to manage and I don't have to deal with updating spam and virus software on the mail server.
I hope that helps.
Thanks
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George
General Manager
DSL Extreme
Will work for reviews. |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | dslx_gm  - thank you for replying.
said by dslx_gm:I assume that you have your domain registrar simply point all email received to your @dslextreme.com address. You're correct. See details below.
To get around the issue I would recommend that you setup a free Google Apps domain edition account.
And why do I need it now?
You can then forward all incoming mail received to that address to your @dslextreme.com account. All incoming mail would remain the same as your current setup. That's what I'm doing now with my old setup.
You could then use smtp.gmail.com with your username@domain.com for the settings. When you sent email through those settings the Google platform would see you as authorized to send. What? Why I do need any authorization from Google? Is Google a new authority in the Internet? I never needed it before DLSE has replaced good working plain email service with gmail.
Your domain and email address would therefore appear. It appeared well in my old setup with DLSE (BTW, without many sneaky records in mail headers, as it's now with gmail, see details below).
I have been using Google Apps in a similar fashion for my own domains for the past few months and have been very happy. Well, good for you. Check headers of your email then.
I used to run my own server. Though I had the advantage of hosting it in our data center, it is much less of a headache now to manage and I don't have to deal with updating spam and virus software on the mail server. Good. I may assure you that I do not need any SPAM and virus software additional to what I'm using locally on my computers. So that's not a problem for my setup. The problem now is how to bypass those extra SPAM and virus filters from gmail. And it looks like with the new setup it's not possible at all
I hope that helps. Thank you. What would really help is - if DLSE keeps its old SMTP/POP service running, as it did until now.
Now regarding to your proposal. Is there anything that I can do now WITHOUT Google?
Sending all emails - via Google SMTP server, receiving all emails only via Google filters (it can't be turned off) and Google pop account, searching Internet - via Google web servers... Now, to keep sending my mails from my domain you recommend me to setup a free Google Apps domain edition account. What else? Should I open new credit card account with Google as well? Do you realize where it leads to?
Up to this point I've never used myacc@dlsextreme.com in my mails. I have several domains and I use them for all my communications. I switched to DLSE several years ago and I keep my old mail accounts. If I'll switch from DLSE to provider that will not sell business to Google and provide with better connection speed (more then 6/700) - I'll not change my old mail accounts too. They are all ISP independent. That's the main point of this setup (and there are many other benefits, by the way).
How it works? (for those users who never thought about it) I've registered my domain name with provider. Domain name provider forwards all mails coming to my domain (e.g. myname@mydomain.tld) accordingly to my simple rules. One of them - forward specific mails to myacc@dlsextreme.com mail account. This way I receive all my emails for my domain. Now, how do I sent mails with my domain in "From" field? It was very simple. In my email client I've set two fields: "User Information" is filled with my domain info and "Logon Information" was filled with myacc@dlsextreme.com mail account info.
This setup was working well for many years (until this "exciting news" - all mail services were moved to gmail). And now gmail made it impossible Because the email service is broken I have to apply to Google Apps domain edition account. Looking at how gmail handles so called "additional email address" (they only changed visible "From" field and keeps 6 header fields with myacc@dlsextreme.com mail account - it's a joke, right?) I have absolutely no trust in gmail, and particularly in handling my domain by Google. Thank you. It'd be plain dumb to go this way.
Could DLSE keep the old mail service running?
I'm sure there will be a big pull of happy users...
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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 TEI must crunch
join:2006-05-07
Yorba Linda, CA | WOW... I'm surprised this setup worked at all. It would seem that DSLX mail servers were mis-configured to allow you to send mail from your domain through them. Most mail servers do not allow relaying like this. |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | What do you know about the most?
I've been using it with many providers (before DLSE even existed). |
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TEI must crunch
join:2006-05-07
Yorba Linda, CA Reviews:
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Well, you right. I shouldn't have used 'most' but the recommended configuration for a mail server is to not allow any mail to be sent from a domain that the mail server is not configured to receive mail for.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_mail_relay
I hope DSLX can keep SMTP open for you. Good luck. |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
1 edit | Thank you for wishing me luck.
It's not an open relay at all (nice try though). If you're not authorized (with logon information provided) you will send nothing. I pay for this service and its cost is included in my $60/m contributions.
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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TEI must crunch
join:2006-05-07
Yorba Linda, CA Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
| Yes, mail.dslextreme.com is not a open relay but one that, after authentication, will allow you to send 'from' a domain that it does not receive mail for. smtp.gmail.com won't allow you to do this.
Sorry guys ... I don't want to take this thread OT... |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
1 edit | What you were surprised for is often used as common technique.
If you're concern about how to track a potential SPAM sender back - it's easy. You have logs needed in mail servers of ISP. But, with this setup potential receivers will not SPAM you back using header information, that gmail now generously includes in all its mails. (this is in reply for your potential question that changing "From" field is not possible with gmail, is it) |
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TEI must crunch
join:2006-05-07
Yorba Linda, CA
1 edit | Maybe George can provide you with another DSLX mail server and allow you to send.
SMTP.dslextreme.com is still up. |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | Yes, I know. I'm using it now.
Thanks |
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cowboySo Much For SubtletyPremium
join:2000-03-14
Morgan Hill, CA | reply to OZO
said by OZO:What you were surprised for is often used as common technique. If you're concern about how to track a potential SPAM sender back - it's easy. You have logs needed in mail servers of ISP. But, with this setup potential receivers will not SPAM you back using header information, that gmail now generously includes in all its mails. (this is in reply for your potential question that changing "From" field is not possible with gmail, is it) I'm not sure how common it is, I've been in the periphery of mail setups for > 15 years - from home (full mta & proper MTA setup on Dialup, no less) to designing high-throughput setups to track (as far as possible) mail end-to-end - and some consulting on mid-range setups as well...
Anyway, back to your issue - irregardless of how common your abuse (and yes, that is what you're doing) is a technique whos days are severely limited - due to big $ in spam, DKIM/Senderid/etc are going to be the norm (SPF/DK) will fade(IMNSHO)... You will be forced to send mail through a MTA who takes responsibility for each and every domain/mail that passes through it... Which is my current conundrum - sender based next-hop selection (normally based upon recipient).
So, honestly, as a persona non-grata here, (DslExtreme is my ISP, but my DNS and MX are elsewhere - and *I* do my primary/backup MX, web, etc.) You need to pony-up for real support... it was nice it worked for you before, but your issues are so remote that there is no way they could've been forseen or worked around.
If you just want fairly reliable mail handling, with good av/spam - and aren't abusive, you should be able to find decent hosting fairly cheap... Heck, I can even trivially add a few more domains (full dns/mail/web) - but I'd have to pony for more bandwidth first -- unless you can live on the leftovers of a 3m/768 connection
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Richard Nelson |
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cowboySo Much For SubtletyPremium
join:2000-03-14
Morgan Hill, CA | said by cowboy:So, honestly, as a persona non-grata here, (DslExtreme is my ISP, but my DNS and MX are elsewhere - and *I* do my primary/backup MX, web, etc.) And before anyone asks... I moved back to California a few years ago, after several years of running my setup on dialup and PPP/DHCP based DSL in another state... My choice in Secondary DNS/MX was predicated upon having continuous service before, during, and after the cross-country move.
This isn't any slight against DSLExtreme, other than there (understandable from a business standpoint) choice of Exchange hosting (but my Vz phone doesn't use Vz web, either)
I do have to say that I've been around since arpanet/bitnet/vnet (repleat with plenty of !s) addressing and DSLExtreme is far and away, thusfar, the best ISP I have had to deal with...
They give me a pipe to do with as I please - I don't bother them, and they don't cripple me... Try that with anyone else and you're paying 3x the cost for a business account, even to host a hobiest/family setup.
With all the talk about them changing since the acquisition, I fail to see the difference (but, by and large, I support myself)... When they decide to restrict my pipe, then I'll change my opinion
Until such time, I'll just (semi) quietly gripe about the fact that even though DSL Reports says there's a COVAD POP in my area, DSLExtreme says I'm stuck on Vz lines
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Richard Nelson |
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