russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Bureaucracy or safety?
So did they ever figure out if this is a real problem or if it's a collision of old codes with new technology?
If Verizon is running non-metallic optical cable into the customer premises, any grounding or bonding is about as important as teats on a boar. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| said by russotto  : If Verizon is running non-metallic optical cable into the customer premises, any grounding or bonding is about as important as teats on a boar. Not sure what all the fuss is about. Some fiber cable include conductor to facilitate tracing even though they are not required for data transmission. However: I think Verizon drop cables are completely nonmetallic.
The lack of metallic conductor exiting the building means ONT is no different then any other electrical device. ONT is powered by three-wire grounded AC feed. I assume (but don't know for sure) that AC safety ground extends from power supply to ONT.
/tom |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
 ·Comcast
2 edits | If there was no safety hazard, Then the code should be changed. Still not a excuse for not following the current code today.
if it's an externally mounted powered device, then it MUST be properly grounded. If the power points are at all accessable, then it should be on a GFCI (this could be a problem for the ONT) that certainly goes beyond the pictures I've seen of even a good fios install.
Just because it's fiber optic, it doesn't mean it's totally non-metalic, most "self-supporting" drop cable have a support wire, either metal or fiber glass, to carry the weight/strain, something you can't do with optical fiber, without damaging it. Even a totally non'metalic drop can become the best available conductor for static, lightning, or the accidental short (dropped power line) and create a hazard. |
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pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
·ProLog
 ·ViaTalk
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to tschmidt
I am not sure of the grounding/bonding requirements on telco gear but.....
I have a fire/smoke/intrusion alarm panel in my basement that is connected to a dialup monitoring service. That panel has a ground lug in it with instructions to connect to a cold water pipe. The panel is fed from a large 12 volt "wall wort" transformer that plugs into a u ground outlet.
Tim
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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :said by russotto : If Verizon is running non-metallic optical cable into the customer premises, any grounding or bonding is about as important as teats on a boar. Not sure what all the fuss is about. Some fiber cable include conductor to facilitate tracing even though they are not required for data transmission. However: I think Verizon drop cables are completely nonmetallic. It's a safety ground for internal wiring, not just for the incoming drop. The grounding isn't necessary per se for the ONT, but for all the things that get connected to the ONT. TVs and VCRs are notorious for leaking AC onto the coax shield. The proper grounding just gives a better path for the current to safely dissipate rather then through you if you should happen to contact the wire.
Is it a huge safety issue? No. Is your house going to burn down? Not likely. Are there thousands of existing telephone and cable drops that are improperly grounded across the country (and not just Verizon's fault)? Definitely. Is it worth doing correctly? Yes.
said by tschmidt :The lack of metallic conductor exiting the building means ONT is no different then any other electrical device. ONT is powered by three-wire grounded AC feed. I assume (but don't know for sure) that AC safety ground extends from power supply to ONT. I'd have to double check, but I thought my ONT's power supply was powered by just a polarized 2-prong connector. If that is the case, the actual power supply is just a variation wall-wart transformer and does not have a ground. |
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skuv
@rr.com
| reply to russotto
Doesn't everyone know that the FIOS ONT's have coax in them?
This is copper, and carries an electric signal, and must be grounded, just like the cable company must ground their coax.
Why do people keep thinking the whole thing is fiber? |
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Lee GWB
Yaco
Premium
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ | You Sir have won the $66,000 Question |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to skuv
said by skuv :
Doesn't everyone know that the FIOS ONT's have coax in them?
Why do people keep thinking the whole thing is fiber?
The main safety issue is whether or not copper exits the building. FYI, internally the ONT has more then just coax interface, it also has twisted pair for Ethernet and voice.
If you hook up a rabbit ear indoor antenna it does not need to be grounded just because it uses coax. The purpose of grounding/bonding is protection from foreign induced voltage. Wiring that exits the building is vulnerable to this either from lightning or power crosses. I agree with cdru that most consumer AV equipment is two-wire rather then three-wire (safety ground) as such it is likely there will be some leakage to coax shield. However if leakage current results in dangerous levels of voltage on the coax bonding ONT reduces but does not eliminate danger since disconnecting coax from ONT also removes ground.
If what cdru posted is correct that ONT power supply uses a two wire plug then the only source of safety ground is bonding ONT to residential ground system.
Regardless - having a high quality ground improves safety, often reduces susceptible to RF interference, and is best practice.
/tom |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to russotto
It's a convenient way for FIOS competitors and anti-FIOS entities to beat them up. The bonding requirements in Article 810 and 820 of the National Electric Code are quite specific, and alot of installs, even if they are bonded somehow to the house system ground, are not done strictly to Code. I'd guess about 90% of the DBS satellite installs I've seen are not to Code (e.g., dish bonded to nearby light fixture, rather than one of the locations listed in Artical 810). |
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u3912974
join:2007-07-31
San Francisco, CA | reply to russotto
I think better grounding for my cable tv helped an issue i was having with picture quality. |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| reply to cdru
said by cdru :The grounding isn't necessary per se for the ONT, but for all the things that get connected to the ONT. TVs and VCRs are notorious for leaking AC onto the coax shield. The proper grounding just gives a better path for the current to safely dissipate rather then through you if you should happen to contact the wire. Ding ding ding... A winner.
Is it a huge safety issue? No. Depending on the level of power leaked into the coax shielding, it can be. I have, on more than one occasion, heard of techs getting nice jolts from older installs that weren't grounded (it was not always required by code).
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Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat... |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt :If what cdru posted is correct that ONT power supply uses a two wire plug then the only source of safety ground is bonding ONT to residential ground system. I was mistaken. It was flat, but was a 3-conductor cord. However, that was only to the power supply. To the battery pack, it was just a 2-wire connection. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| said by cdru : To the battery pack, it was just a 2-wire connection. In other posts in this thread it appears some of the early ONTs did use two wire AC plug.
With two wire DC supply that begs the question: is DC supply safety ground referenced or floating?
If I had to venture a guess I'd say it was ground referenced. If this was the computer industry mostly likely negative rail would be connected to safety ground. Being a Telcom ONT that may not be the case as phone companies like -48 volts.
/tom |
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