SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19 | Rural General Suckitude I don't know which is worse in rural areas...the fact that the phone lines are and have always been for shit, or, the fact that you can't even use good ol' rabbit ears to pick up any TV signals anymore. | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Rural General Suckitude said by SilverSurfer  :I don't know which is worse in rural areas...the fact that the phone lines are and have always been for shit, or, the fact that you can't even use good ol' rabbit ears to pick up any TV signals anymore. Why can't you use rabbit ears? I can pick up digital stations using a wire coat hanger with no degradation in quality. It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by jmn1207 :said by SilverSurfer :I don't know which is worse in rural areas...the fact that the phone lines are and have always been for shit, or, the fact that you can't even use good ol' rabbit ears to pick up any TV signals anymore. Why can't you use rabbit ears? I can pick up digital stations using a wire coat hanger with no degradation in quality. It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. The issue is that the digital signal has a sharp cutoff where you either get the signal or not. The analog signal would degrade over distance but still provide a viewable channel, even if the quality sucked.
This map of the coverage in the Wilmington test shows how the analog transmission had a farther reach. The digital coverage was helped by overlapping digital signals from nearby affiliate stations on the same network. But the area in orange basically lost all NBC coverage in the switch.
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···89A4.pdf
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
2 edits | Re: Rural General Suckitude And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made.
I wonder how this will impact satellite TV and local channel distribution. In areas where local networks were not included with DirectTV or Dish, you had to live outside the range of the local analog signal's reach to be eligible to get generic network broadcasts piped to your satellite receiver. I suppose the distance requirements will have to be adjusted accordingly. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Rural General Suckitude said by jmn1207 :And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made. And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Rural General Suckitude said by TKJunkMail :said by jmn1207 :And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made. And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange. Hopefully there won't be any situations that might cause one signal to bleed over the top of another. If that is even possible with this type of signal. I know with my radio stations I can make a mix of Mexican Radio meets Contemporary Jazz. This occurs late in the evening and I call this music style, Contexican Jazzio. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| said by TKJunkMail :And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange. If I recall correctly, many stations whose frequency lies within the VHF range will actually be broadcasting with less power to prevent interference with FM stations. Plus they don't pass through physical objects (walls for example) as well as UHF frequencies.
Many of those stations are currently broadcasting in the UHF frequency range, but will switch to VHF after Feb 17, 2009.
For example Philadelphia's KWY-DT (CBS) is currently broadcasting on a UHF frequency (don't have it in front of me at the moment), but will switch to channel 3 after the switchover. That means people who can receive the channel now, might not be able to get it after the transition.
See »www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre···t=823166 | |
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StudioTech
S2409W plus SA4250HD
join:2001-10-10
Edison, NJ | Actually, in Philly, it's WPVI-DT (the ABC station) that's moving their digital signal back to VHF-Lo, not KYW-DT. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by StudioTech :Actually, in Philly, it's WPVI-DT (the ABC station) that's moving their digital signal back to VHF-Lo, not KYW-DT. Oops, you're right. That's actually worse since WPVI-DT doesn't come in very well currently. I shudder to think of what it will be like after the switchover. | |
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| | | | older dog
Premium
join:2005-06-09
Norwich, NY | The last I read for this area the FCC had cut the allowable transmit power to prevent interference to stations in the Midwest.
Creating the problem of no receivable stations even with a large fringe antenna. | |
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join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Rural General Suckitude They should have made USA DTV be encoded in CDMA. | |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone
| that would help increase bandwidth efficiency so you could get a better picture or sound, but not raw signal strength.
cell phones work because there are towers all over the place. If you paid $50/mo for tv service you could have similar land based radio coverage. | |
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Mac Bridger
Beat It Again Bill
Premium
join:2001-01-11
Smithton, PA
clubs: | Re: Rural General Suckitude Some stations are running at reduced power right now. Some aren't even broadcasting... | |
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What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah
join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace
| said by jay_rm :In the little testing I've done, the analog quality would have extra-high suckage. I've seen perfect DTV picture quality with no drop-outs when the equivalent analog channel was so snowy it was no more then a ghosted black & white eye-hurting remnant of itself. Looks to me that the DTV signals need very low S/N to work just great. This could very well be caused by different Multi-Paths between the different frequencies the analog and digital are transmitting on.
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Personal Theme Song:
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charitmnacho
@rr.com
|  It's not even just as simple as you either get it or you don't, all of the tv channels I get that are digital are choppy if I don't have the antenna adjusted just right for each channel I watch I have to constantly adjust my rabbit ears or the digital channels break up into little squares and then the screen freezes for minutes at a time, then picks up the signal again for a minute or two then cuts back out. atleast with analog you could still watch the show with out interuptions even though the picture might be a little fuzzy. | |
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Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | This days everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Rural General Suckitude said by Oleg :This days everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. No, 12% do not, according to what is being reported. | |
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DrModem
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA | Re: Rural General Suckitude That's the same percentage of people who (supposedly) still have dialup, but no one caters to that class.
Why should this be any different just because it's TV? | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Rural General Suckitude said by DrModem :That's the same percentage of people who (supposedly) still have dialup, but no one caters to that class. Why should this be any different just because it's TV? Well, we could at least get a crummy, snowy reception of Jeopardy if Uncle Bill, with a metal plate in his head, sat on the love seat near the window. It was something, just like dial up. Better than nothing at all, perhaps, or maybe losing TV is the best thing that will ever happen. With no TV, one might expect to see increasing levels of reading comprehension in those areas. | |
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BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11
| said by DrModem :That's the same percentage of people... ...but no one caters to that class. Hasn't stopped Apple.  | |
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| | | | | utahluge
join:2004-10-14
Draper, UT | Re: Rural General Suckitude Hasn't stopped Apple. | |
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| | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| said by tschmidt :Conversion to DTV is actually increasing number of people using over the air antennas. OTA typically has better picture quality then Cable or sat because it is not recompressed to reduce bandwidth usage. In addition in these poor economic times I'd be willing to bet some folk are going back to OTA to save money. /tom My neighbor put up an outside antenna just for that reason, much better signal than Dish or Comcast, but he kept Dish for the extra programming he gets.
We and a few of our neighbors who have gotten the boxes have seen a bit better signal on the digital modes than with the analog. But the digital modes do have some odd display formats (vertical letter box vice horizontal?), but that may just be the wife not wanting to adjust for the different modes with the control. (caveat: I do not watch TV very much, very little worth watching any more)
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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| | | wcnghj
join:2008-05-01 | I would switch to DTV if we could get signal. I wonder if we could get a big enough antenna to get signal 70 miles away. | |
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mr_slick
join:2003-05-22
Lynnwood, WA
| I don't-- OTA all the way!
I do have FiOS Internet however 
**actually i havent had cable for about 15 years once i discovered the content choices over the air, on dvds and via the internet are far superior to paying for cable
i always just surfed through the channels with cable anyways (hoping to find something good!)
--i would however reconsider cable if they offered an al-a-cart service of just a few channels (like 2 or 3!) | |
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| | thecptrgod
join:2008-04-03
Madison, WI
1 edit | said by Oleg :This days everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. Um.. not everyone. I still watch TV over-the-air with rabbit ears. Oh and I'm IN Madison and still have problems with the DTVs here. (Approx. 10 miles from the 15/57 tower and approx. 12 from the "Supertower.")
-Adam | |
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MeanPeepsSuk
Premium
join:2004-11-21
Muddy Field
clubs:
| said by jmn1207 :It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. In the case of the testers in Hunterdon County, NJ (~40 miles to NYC and Philly), it was "You don't". The signal strength is just not enough with digital where there once was with analog. For these testers, there was 100% loss of all currently served broadcast channels (2-13).
We're not talking rabbit ears either... Roof antennas only brought in new non-English channels instead. One tester went as far as to head over to radio shack for help, and found out he had to purchase an amplifier to supplement his roof antenna too.
Not directed at you, but to rant on... The sad reality is, as it is now, is that people would have to shell out $300 for roof antenna if they don't have one... and an amp for $?, not to mention the cost of the converter (even with 1 coupon).. While some may say, switch to something else... That is not the point here. Broadcast TV is supposed to be free to masses. Should people buy roof antennas and amps for the portable TVs? I know I'd miss mine in the garage that I also take camping.
If the FCC can't handle DTV in a metro-NYC area by calling it "rural fringe", what's going to happen in all areas that isn't within 35 miles of a tower? A coupon for 1 converter isn't going to do it. | |
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grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA | Reston isn't even close to being Rural.
Try that in Culpepper Va. | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Rural General Suckitude said by grydlok :Reston isn't even close to being Rural. Try that in Culpepper Va. Oh I know, this is a suburb of DC. I don't have any issues, in fact, I use Comcast AND have Verizon FiOS available here, too. | |
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grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA
1 edit | Re: Rural General Suckitude Yeah but telling somebody you have no problems what so ever picking up OTA channels with a set a coat hanger is a joke. You are like 20 miles from the towers. | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | Re: Rural General Suckitude Yes, a joke. | |
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| wispalord
join:2007-09-20
House Springs, MO | ya no doubt i lived 60miles south of STL in the boonies and i just put my 20year old bunny ears out side and it works fine, so ppl with a out door antennea should be fine | |
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archaic
@verizon.net | How far are you from the towers? 5 miles? 10? Try over 40. It just doesn't work. | |
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Some Rural guy
@ilstu.edu | don't forget about the biggest rip off all time Satellite internet. When you live out in the middle of no ware it the only broadband you can get, if you can call it that. To make things worst it about a 200 meg daily download cap :-( | |
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russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Start with the current analog channels. They're all yellow or worse RIGHT NOW, except for the nearby WNJB. That's your baseline for comparison. So right off the bat, you're already going to need more than rabbit ears, EVEN FOR ANALOG.
Post transition, 5 goes to red. 12 and 13 were already red as analog stations. 10 is not red, it is yellow. In the yellow, that location will have two ABCs, two NBCs, two CBSs, two MyNetworkTVs, and a couple of other stations. Just 3dB down and they'll pick up Fox and CW. And note that TVFool is pessimistic: I'm currently picking up a channel predicted to be -110 dBm at my location, in the gray, with a modest-sized antenna. | |
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