 jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | reply to SilverSurfer1
Re: Rural General Suckitude said by SilverSurfer1:I don't know which is worse in rural areas...the fact that the phone lines are and have always been for shit, or, the fact that you can't even use good ol' rabbit ears to pick up any TV signals anymore. Why can't you use rabbit ears? I can pick up digital stations using a wire coat hanger with no degradation in quality. It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. |
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 ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
1 edit | said by jmn1207:said by SilverSurfer1:I don't know which is worse in rural areas...the fact that the phone lines are and have always been for shit, or, the fact that you can't even use good ol' rabbit ears to pick up any TV signals anymore. Why can't you use rabbit ears? I can pick up digital stations using a wire coat hanger with no degradation in quality. It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. The issue is that the digital signal has a sharp cutoff where you either get the signal or not. The analog signal would degrade over distance but still provide a viewable channel, even if the quality sucked.
This map of the coverage in the Wilmington test shows how the analog transmission had a farther reach. The digital coverage was helped by overlapping digital signals from nearby affiliate stations on the same network. But the area in orange basically lost all NBC coverage in the switch.
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···89A4.pdf
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 OlegBellsouth FastaccessPremium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | reply to jmn1207
This days everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. |
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jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | said by Oleg:This days everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. No, 12% do not, according to what is being reported. |
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jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
2 edits | reply to ThrowDemsOut
And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made.
I wonder how this will impact satellite TV and local channel distribution. In areas where local networks were not included with DirectTV or Dish, you had to live outside the range of the local analog signal's reach to be eligible to get generic network broadcasts piped to your satellite receiver. I suppose the distance requirements will have to be adjusted accordingly. |
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ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | said by jmn1207:And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made. And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange.
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jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | said by ThrowDemsOut:said by jmn1207:And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made. And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange. Hopefully there won't be any situations that might cause one signal to bleed over the top of another. If that is even possible with this type of signal. I know with my radio stations I can make a mix of Mexican Radio meets Contemporary Jazz. This occurs late in the evening and I call this music style, Contexican Jazzio. |
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 Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
 ·Comcast
| reply to ThrowDemsOut
said by ThrowDemsOut:And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange. If I recall correctly, many stations whose frequency lies within the VHF range will actually be broadcasting with less power to prevent interference with FM stations. Plus they don't pass through physical objects (walls for example) as well as UHF frequencies.
Many of those stations are currently broadcasting in the UHF frequency range, but will switch to VHF after Feb 17, 2009.
For example Philadelphia's KWY-DT (CBS) is currently broadcasting on a UHF frequency (don't have it in front of me at the moment), but will switch to channel 3 after the switchover. That means people who can receive the channel now, might not be able to get it after the transition.
See »www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre···t=823166 |
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 DrModemPremium
join:2006-10-19
USA
kudos:1 | reply to jmn1207
That's the same percentage of people who (supposedly) still have dialup, but no one caters to that class.
Why should this be any different just because it's TV? |
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| reply to ThrowDemsOut
The last I read for this area the FCC had cut the allowable transmit power to prevent interference to stations in the Midwest.
Creating the problem of no receivable stations even with a large fringe antenna. |
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jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | reply to DrModem
said by DrModem:That's the same percentage of people who (supposedly) still have dialup, but no one caters to that class. Why should this be any different just because it's TV? Well, we could at least get a crummy, snowy reception of Jeopardy if Uncle Bill, with a metal plate in his head, sat on the love seat near the window. It was something, just like dial up. Better than nothing at all, perhaps, or maybe losing TV is the best thing that will ever happen. With no TV, one might expect to see increasing levels of reading comprehension in those areas. |
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 BabyBearKeep wise ...with Nite-Owl
join:2007-01-11 | reply to DrModem
said by DrModem:That's the same percentage of people... ...but no one caters to that class. Hasn't stopped Apple.  |
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ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
1 edit | reply to Morac
said by Morac:Many of those stations are currently broadcasting in the UHF frequency range, but will switch to VHF after Feb 17, 2009. For example Philadelphia's KWY-DT (CBS) is currently broadcasting on a UHF frequency (don't have it in front of me at the moment), but will switch to channel 3 after the switchover. That means people who can receive the channel now, might not be able to get it after the transition. See » www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre···t=823166 Thanks for link. After looking at that thread I came across this link that will allow anyone to stay on top of the OTA digital plans and follow thru.
»www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php
And if you do a zip code search and keep the mileage option to 40, you should be able to see what is/will be available digitally on 2/17/2009 in your area.
»www.rabbitears.info/search.php
I have tested for my area and can get all the stations listed with rabbit ears and a converter box up to about 35 miles away.
Here is an example of what is available when using search and listing tools:
»www.rabbitears.info/search.php?r···miles=40
»www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service···000.html
»fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe···um=61111
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:4
 ·Fairpoint Commun..
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| reply to Oleg
said by Oleg:everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. As jmn1207  posted about 12% of us rely on over the air transmission.
Conversion to DTV is actually increasing number of people using over the air antennas. OTA typically has better picture quality then Cable or sat because it is not recompressed to reduce bandwidth usage. In addition in these poor economic times I'd be willing to bet some folk are going back to OTA to save money.
/tom |
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tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:4 Reviews:
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| reply to DrModem
said by DrModem:That's the same percentage of people who ... have dialup, but no one caters to that class. An analogy would be if dialup was being discontinued and you did not have broadband access you are no longer able to access the Internet.
/tom |
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| reply to Morac
Actually, in Philly, it's WPVI-DT (the ABC station) that's moving their digital signal back to VHF-Lo, not KYW-DT. |
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ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | reply to tschmidt
said by tschmidt: OTA typically has better picture quality then Cable or sat because it is not recompressed to reduce bandwidth usage. That is not always true as these 2 Philadelphia, PA channels indicate. Check out the video bitrate column.
CBS isn't compressing and has only 1 digital channel to use their bandwidth.
But ABC cut up its bandwidth to squeeze in more sub channels.
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tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:4 Reviews:
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| said by ThrowDemsOut: That is not always true as these 2 Philadelphia, PA channels indicate. Sorry, guess I was not clear. Stations can and often do broadcast multiple sub-channels.
What I meant was programs broadcast over the air are often recompressed by Cable and Sat providers to squeeze more channels into their channel capacity reducing quality compared to what one gets with OTA.
/tom |
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 djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·VOIPo
·PHONE POWER
| reply to ThrowDemsOut
8.6mbps MPEG-2? Yuck!
Problem is, cable or sat is going to use WPVI's 8.6mbps ABC broadcast as their source. So no matter where you go, it's going to, at best, be that same 8.6mbps crappy quality, perhaps with even more artifacts introduced if it's transcoded to MPEG-4 or pushed through a cable company compressor to guarantee WPVI doesn't change their mind and up the data rate. It's unlikely that TV providers are going to go through the trouble to get their encoding equipment installed at a point prior to being compressed for OTA transmission.
You have, however, perfectly illustrated why I cringe when people say OTA is superior because it's "uncompressed". As you've shown it may be compressed quite severely! Many cable systems just remux the same quality data onto a QAM stream.
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| reply to jmn1207
said by jmn1207:It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. In the case of the testers in Hunterdon County, NJ (~40 miles to NYC and Philly), it was "You don't". The signal strength is just not enough with digital where there once was with analog. For these testers, there was 100% loss of all currently served broadcast channels (2-13).
We're not talking rabbit ears either... Roof antennas only brought in new non-English channels instead. One tester went as far as to head over to radio shack for help, and found out he had to purchase an amplifier to supplement his roof antenna too.
Not directed at you, but to rant on... The sad reality is, as it is now, is that people would have to shell out $300 for roof antenna if they don't have one... and an amp for $?, not to mention the cost of the converter (even with 1 coupon).. While some may say, switch to something else... That is not the point here. Broadcast TV is supposed to be free to masses. Should people buy roof antennas and amps for the portable TVs? I know I'd miss mine in the garage that I also take camping.
If the FCC can't handle DTV in a metro-NYC area by calling it "rural fringe", what's going to happen in all areas that isn't within 35 miles of a tower? A coupon for 1 converter isn't going to do it. |
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