ehenry
join:2007-11-07
Fairbury, IL
| Will this hurt my radio? I installed a very short (less than 1/8 mile) link with a set of Tranzeo 5.X radios. The power is all the way down and the signal is still -26. Is there another way to correct this without pointing the antenna away? Will this harm the radio as is? | |
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 Chele
join:2003-07-23 | Re: Will this hurt my radio? Change the pol on one of the radios. Make one of the units Vertical pol and the other Horizontal pol. The radios will eventually go deaf if the signal is too strong. | |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA | Re: Will this hurt my radio? Anyone know at what point damage might be done to a radio? -40 and higher? What might be safe? | |
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| | EMC_guy
join:2007-10-13
Sharbot Lake, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by Jerm  :Anyone know at what point damage might be done to a radio? -40 and higher? What might be safe? The long term damage potential can be clarified by the RF circuit designer at Tranzeo. The typical antenna TX/RX switch is OK with 0dBm level but many 802.11 receiver circuits saturate with much lower RSSI.
This is a result of biasing analog-to-digital converter for very low level signals like -90dBm which occur in indoor wireless LANs. Even with 12-bit ADC circuit, the saturation point will be in the -30dBm range. With 8-bit ADC it will be in the -50dBm range. | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp | Tilt one of them up to the sky slightly until the signal strength is where you want it.
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A is A | |
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shorthairedp
join:2005-11-21
united state | There was a post here once about imitating free space loss for testing by placing certain materials in front of the antennas, would that apply in a functional environment? | |
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| lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by shorthairedp :There was a post here once about imitating free space loss for testing by placing certain materials in front of the antennas, would that apply in a functional environment? RF absorbing foams are very expensive and you will need maybe 12 inches deep block for 20-30dB reduction at 5Ghz. It is easier to turn down the TX power or use cross-polarization.  | |
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| | shorthairedp
join:2005-11-21
united state
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? No, he was using common materials, but he had an equation for figuring the mass vs frequency to be equivalent to a certain distance, I thought it was in this forum, but i cant find it.
as far as the cross polarization, I imagine its negligible, but wont doing that increase the retransmission rate? | |
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| | | lutful
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON | Re: Will this hurt my radio? Dense HDPE plastics (the kind used in cutting boards) and plain old wood will cut down 5Ghz signal. I recall hearing it was like 3dB per inch of thickness but haven't done any tests. | |
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| | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Will this hurt my radio? Or you could do a professional job of it and use the correct attenuator.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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| | | | | shorthairedp
join:2005-11-21
united state | Re: Will this hurt my radio? how would you attenuate an integrated radio? | |
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| | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by shorthairedp :how would you attenuate an integrated radio? You can pretty much bet that if the received signal is that hot the transmitted signal is bombing into the AP at a high level too. Any standard attenuator which can also dissipate the required power will work both ways on the same antenna lead.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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| | | | | | | shorthairedp
join:2005-11-21
united state
1 edit | Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by RadioDoc :said by shorthairedp :how would you attenuate an integrated radio? You can pretty much bet that if the received signal is that hot the transmitted signal is bombing into the AP at a high level too. Any standard attenuator which can also dissipate the required power will work both ways on the same antenna lead. So youre saying to crack the unit open and put this in? Any time a unit is cracked open and aftermarket parts are rigged in, I have a very hard time considering that "professional" | |
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| | | | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Re: Will this hurt my radio? Yeah, I misread your post (having started this with wattmeters, etc. in another thread) and indeed an "integrated" radio won't be much use with an external attenuator. Probably would be a better idea to use the correct equipment in the first place instead of trying to hack something together like metal screens and foam. That would look really "professional" too, right?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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ehenry
join:2007-11-07
Fairbury, IL | How long do i actually have before this damages the radio? | |
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KiZiller
@rr.com
| said by ehenry :How long do i actually have before this damages the radio? That sounds like a lot of power as compared to a typical link, but in reality it is very tiny. My guess is that your caution is unfounded. The AGC in the front end can probably handle 0 dBm or more with no damage. | |
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| ehenry
join:2007-11-07
Fairbury, IL
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by KiZiller :said by ehenry :How long do i actually have before this damages the radio? That sounds like a lot of power as compared to a typical link, but in reality it is very tiny. My guess is that your caution is unfounded. The AGC in the front end can probably handle 0 dBm or more with no damage. So in your opinion, there will be no damage? Is there any documentation that you can offer to support this? Not that I don't take opinions, I would rather not harm a customer radio because of a faulty install. | |
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KiZiller
@rr.com
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by ehenry :... I would rather not harm a customer radio because of a faulty install. Like EMC guy said, a definitive answer would be from the manufacturer. In light of the rest of EMC's post, it sounds like wi-fi microwave radios are not typically designed with automatic gain control of the front end strip. I have no experience with microwave radio circuit design or servicing, so my guess about the potential damage is weakened by what EMC has said.
Get a piece of metal screen wire and fold it over one of the antennas. Adjust the signal to a more comfortable level with a pair of scissors. | |
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| | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by KiZiller :
Get a piece of metal screen wire and fold it over one of the antennas. Adjust the signal to a more comfortable level with a pair of scissors.
Putting a metal screen in front of any transmitting antenna is a horrible idea. | |
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| | | Get Wireless
join:2007-07-31
1 edit | said by KiZiller :said by ehenry :... I would rather not harm a customer radio because of a faulty install. Get a piece of metal screen wire and fold it over one of the antennas. Adjust the signal to a more comfortable level with a pair of scissors. That is the most unprofessional thing I have ever heard posted here and I hope no one actually tries it. Anything under 1/4" mesh will block all 2.4GHz radiation and possible damage the internal radios LNA. | |
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ehenry
join:2007-11-07
Fairbury, IL
| "A signal level like that won’t harm the radios but they won’t operate as well. Another thing that you can do since the power is already turned down is to cross-polarize the radios, this should give you a 20dB reduction in the signal. So mount one radio vertical and the other unit horizontal."
Thanks
Neal Midgley
Support Manager
Tranzeo Wireless Technologies Inc.
Thanks for everyones input. | |
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MicroWISP
join:2008-01-30
TX Republic
| I'm with John and ehenry on this. I use the same gear and if it's "too loud" at close range I turn it down first, rotate it 180 degrees out of phase second, and if it's still screaming just adjust your downtilt/uptilt so you are looking at some sky instead of directly at the other panel.
By the way, you can go past 0 on the power settings of the Tranzeo gear, they go from 30 positive to 30 negative you know. (-30) Sometimes setting up "negative gain" works for me!
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"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it." | |
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| Get Wireless
join:2007-07-31
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by MicroWISP :I'm with John and ehenry on this. I use the same gear and if it's "too loud" at close range I turn it down first, rotate it 180 degrees out of phase second, 180 degrees is not out of phase, 90 degrees is out of phase.
180 degrees puts your Tranzeo unit upside down. | |
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| | shorthairedp
join:2005-11-21
united state
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by Get Wireless :said by MicroWISP :I'm with John and ehenry on this. I use the same gear and if it's "too loud" at close range I turn it down first, rotate it 180 degrees out of phase second, 180 degrees is not out of phase, 90 degrees is out of phase. 180 degrees puts your Tranzeo unit upside down. So youre not putting it in a different polarization, just phase? I did not know that 180 degrees was different, I have noticed on our alvarion VL gear that we do a sight survey with the radio upside down so we can see the bars, but when we wount it, the signal is about 10% higher. I just attributed that to dialing in the pointg when its mounted, thats interesting. | |
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| | | Get Wireless
join:2007-07-31 | Re: Will this hurt my radio? Nothing changes by mounting an antenna upside down unless it had electrical downtilt built in. Now it's uptilt and I would never leave any antenna that way as it is so easy for water to go down the CAT5 through the ethernet coupler. | |
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MicroWISP
join:2008-01-30
TX Republic
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by Get Wireless :Nothing changes by mounting an antenna upside down unless it had electrical downtilt built in. Now it's uptilt and I would never leave any antenna that way as it is so easy for water to go down the CAT5 through the ethernet coupler. No downtilt built in, and Tranzeo panelized integrated units' CAT5 connectors are on the back of the units and completely independent of radio position (you adjust the placement of the weatherproof cover accordingly) so there is no cause for alarm on the water damage. | |
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MicroWISP
join:2008-01-30
TX Republic
| Oops, lol, you are right get wireless, that's what I meant but it was late and I wasn't thinking. By the way, we have one Tranzeo upside down that's been up for two years that way working great! Installer was paying attention to polarity but not the writing on the box, lol. Have a great day!
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"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it." | |
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shorthairedp
join:2005-11-21
united state | to a geek like me, a screen mesh covered piece of foam mounted in front of a radio would look like art, but a customer may question the quality of work. | |
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| SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Hilo, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by shorthairedp :to a geek like me, a screen mesh covered piece of foam mounted in front of a radio would look like art, but a customer may question the quality of work. So what is wrong with the idea of reducing the potential of the transmission path by pointing the antenner half way up to Jupiter ? I've seen no arguments against that very clean, easy and rather obvious solution.
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I spent most of my money on Women and Beer, and the rest I just wasted ! | |
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| | ehenry
join:2007-11-07
Fairbury, IL
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by SipSizzurp :said by shorthairedp :to a geek like me, a screen mesh covered piece of foam mounted in front of a radio would look like art, but a customer may question the quality of work. So what is wrong with the idea of reducing the potential of the transmission path by pointing the antenner half way up to Jupiter ? I've seen no arguments against that very clean, easy and rather obvious solution. We know that pointing away works. But this links is quite a drive to get to and we are trying to figure out a way to change without having to physically move the radio. The screen mesh in front of the radio is something we have joked about, but i don't think we would ever do it to someone else radio. | |
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| | | SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Hilo, HI | Re: Will this hurt my radio? Do you have the output set to -30 as suggested by MicroWisp ? | |
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| | | | ehenry
join:2007-11-07
Fairbury, IL
| Re: Will this hurt my radio? said by SipSizzurp :Do you have the output set to -30 as suggested by MicroWisp ? Will the automatic power control do this? or will it just stop at 0? | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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stargazer
@cloh.com
| I also think putting metal meshing in front of the panel is a horrible idea. I would not dream of doing such a thing. Wouldn't the signal reflect off of the metal right back into the radio causing it to lose it's sensitivity? That to me would be worse than keeping it the way it is with a high signal level. We always just point it away from the other radio if turning down the power does not do enough and/or change polarization. | |
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