GOLFnSUN
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join:2002-03-03
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| reply to jc100
Re: Thank Bush for killing the "Govt suing infringers" part
said by jc100  : Tax Payer money shouldn't be used to protect the interests of PRIVATE CORPORATIONS. It' is THEIR JOB, NOT tax payers to do that. The US government has been protecting the US economy, especially where foreign trade is concerned, since the US was founded. Read a little history before making invalid claims.
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Dogfather
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1 edit | Oh yeah, our EXPLODING trade deficit and decimation of our manufacturing sectors through outsourcing is proof the Federal gov't is protecting the US economy. Yep, kissing the ass of corporate interests has our economy in excellent shape. Everything is AWESOME.
What horsecrap. |
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GOLFnSUN
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1 edit | said by Dogfather :Oh yeah, our EXPLODING trade deficit and decimation of our manufacturing sectors through outsourcing is proof the Federal gov't is protecting the US economy. What horsecrap. You are commenting on the governments ability to do a GOOD job. NOT on their responsibility to do the job at all. The job needs doing. It just needs to be done better. Maybe the new law will help them do that.
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Dogfather
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join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | More pro-corproate laws and bigger gov't aren't a solution. |
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bear73
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While i agree with you TK that GOVT has the responsibility I have little faith that this new bill will actually result in them DOING a good job. IF there were bigger penalties for those in Congress, Judicial, and enforcement then I might have some faith. But until you see them held to the same standards that our military is held to (98% do The Right Thing and are held to it)then nothing will change. And onestly its do to a degradation of the morals of society. Things that are acceptable to the majority today would not have been tolerated 50 years ago.
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GOLFnSUN
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| said by bear73 :While i agree with you TK that GOVT has the responsibility I have little faith that this new bill will actually result in them DOING a good job. IF there were bigger penalties for those in Congress, Judicial, and enforcement then I might have some faith. But until you see them held to the same standards that our military is held to (98% do The Right Thing and are held to it)then nothing will change. And onestly its do to a degradation of the morals of society. Things that are acceptable to the majority today would not have been tolerated 50 years ago. I agree with you that the job isn't being done well. But I strongly disagree with those(like some above) that say since the job is hard to do and has been done badly, that it shouldn't be done at all. That makes the situation 10x worse. But there are many who think lack of morals and anarchy are a preferred way to operate in.
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jc100
join:2002-04-10
| reply to GOLFnSUN
Protecting the economy is NOT what this bill does. It protects PRIVATE CORPORATE interests at the expense of the Tax Payer. You bitch and bitch about big government, then support this law? Seriously, WHY SHOULD MY MONEY be spent to ensure PRIVATE interests. If you ran a car dealership, is it the cities duty to make sure it doesn't get broken into? Should they station a cop there 24 hours a day / 7 days a week JUST for your business? That's exactly what the RIAA is getting. A 24/7 Private police force that TAX PAYERS are footing the bill for. Police in a community protect everything , NOT JUST ONE asset. We're paying for this PRIVATE COMPANY to have their own force. What a joke. You can't justify it and there's nothing that you will say that will give justification. Go ahead and try. There's a huge difference between setting up an organization to see EVERYONE'S interests versus dedicating it to ONE SPECIFIC entity. Either way, tax payers shouldn't foot the bill on something like this pet project. End of story. |
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jc100
join:2002-04-10
| reply to GOLFnSUN
So let's see. If you can't do it right, you should still try anyway? That works well. I mean hell, we got Iraq. We messed that one up, but YAY WE TRIED. Everyone in DSLREPORTS give us a cheer. Give me a break dude. Do you read what you write, or just type so you get responses out of us? Things need to be planned and executed and the cost weighed. With our economy going to SHIT, and taxpayers spending 700 billion PROBABLY, these PET PROJECTS are the last thing we need. Americans are losing their houses, jobs, etc. We don't need to be protecting corporate interests at our expense. IT IS THEIR JOB to protect THEIR PROPERTY. |
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GOLFnSUN
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| reply to jc100
said by jc100 :It protects PRIVATE CORPORATE interests ... WHY SHOULD MY MONEY be spent to ensure PRIVATE interests. I know I can talk until I am blue in the face and you will NEVER get it or agree, but the law is to protect all IP(intellectual property) and not just the RIAA or MPAA. And protecting Corporate interests also protects about 75% of the US economy. Don't like that? Too bad.
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jc100
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1 edit | Protecting Intellectual Property is ONE THING. However, that is still PRIVATE ENTITY and the FBI is already there to do that. We do NOT need to spend MORE BILLIONS to set up separate departments to do the job. We already got ENOUGH FAILURE on their part. Can we say 9/11 anyone. Our money doesn't need to be further SQUANDERED to facilitate someone else's BUSINESS.
READ ABOVE. If you owned 10 car lots in 10 states, SHOULD TAX PAYERS cover the cost of stationing a 24/7 police officer there to make sure you CARS ARE NOT STOLEN. After all, your business HELPS the economy too. So let's just have EVERY BUSINESS get PRIVATE PROTECTION that OUR money is used for. That's what you are advocating on a GRANDER SCALE.
THERE'S no difference here. Private companies are responsible for THEIR OWN INTERESTS. Case closed. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
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| reply to jc100
said by jc100 :So let's see. If you can't do it right, you should still try anyway? You're right. We should capitulate and allow our society and economy to further degrade. That will help the situation. The US wasn't founded on the attitude of "hey, I didn't do it right the first time so I'm going to give up". But then again, maybe that attitude has allowed our country to get where it is today. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
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1 edit | reply to jc100
said by jc100 :If you owned 10 car lots in 10 states, SHOULD TAX PAYERS cover the cost of stationing a 24/7 police officer there to make sure you CARS ARE NOT STOLEN. After all, your business HELPS the economy too. But we do use tax revenue to fund and support law enforcement...to include protecting your 10 car lots. What am I missing? |
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GOLFnSUN
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| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9 :The US wasn't founded on the attitude of "hey, I didn't do it right the first time so I'm going to give up". But then again, maybe that attitude has allowed our country to get where it is today. But that is the attitude of so many of the slackers that now are in school or unemployed. Just give up; watch videos on the internet or listen to the stolen music on their iPods.
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packetscan
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| Stolen Music?
Just like walmart is about to do to paying customers?
Steal what has already been paid for.
Yea TK.. The government always looks out for the citizens, i mean look at our universal health care, oh wait we blew all that cash in iraq.
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Dogfather
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Laguna Hills, CA | reply to GOLFnSUN
Copyright infringement isn't theft, it's copyright infringement. But thanks for the sensationalism. |
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jc100
join:2002-04-10
2 edits | reply to openbox9
Not my 10 car lot. it was an example. Law enforcement is there to protect COMMUNITY interests as a WHOLE. Police are NOT there to serve as 24/7 security to one individual. Look at it like this. Tax payers in X city foot the bill so police can patrol a city and stop crime. Yet, they DO NOT spend their entire day stationed at one area permanently. We are now paying for the RIAA at tax payers expense to have their OWN private police force that DO NOT do anything but handle intellectual property crimes. My example with the car deal is that the CITY POLICE are there to protect everyone's stuff. They are not just dedicated to the car dealer.
Hence, this is a mismanagement of tax payer money. It is the car dealer's job to set up security to protest HIS OWN INTERESTS. It is HIS BUSINESS after all. While the police patrol a neighborbood, he is not going to stay at that persons business every day all day. Hence, in this case, why should tax payers be footing the bill for the RIAA to have someone watching their stuff every day, all day, WHEN every other business does NOT get this luxury. Would you want tax payers to hire a cop for EVERY PRIVATE owned company so they EACH get 24/7 security too? Simply put, should Pizza Hut, McDonalds, and every millions of other corporations get a private cop stationed 24/7 to make sure no one robs or steals? I bet you'd say no. So show me why the RIAA does. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
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| IP is a concern for more than just the RIAA. Take your blinders off and expand your vision a little.
Following on your auto dealership example, does the owner of the dealership have authority to pursue and punish a perpetrator that takes one of his/her vehicles without permission? No, that's what law enforcement is for. Sure, it is incumbent upon the dealership owner to maintain a security system to deter theft, but I can't think of any security system that will prevent theft. Allowing individuals to pursue and punish perpetrators leads to lawlessness, disorder and with international IP concerns, almost impossible recourse. |
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jc100
join:2002-04-10
| Actually IP is no different. Your IP should only be obtained if through a COURT order and a crime proven. Rulings by recent courts have shown that MAKING AVAILABLE is NOT a crime. One must prove downloading occurred. The RIAA has yet to win a single case now. All their wins have been out of court settlements. As for other crimes, I've got no problems using the CURRENT legal channels. FBI obtains court order. However, the FBI should NOT be working to serve the interests of ONE GROUP/
As per car dealer example, you miss the point. Cops are CITY officials paid to protect everyone. THey are NOT there to sit at EVERY BUSINESS 24/7 as personal security to EVERY business. Tax payers wouldn't appreciate if Pizza Hut, McDonalds, etc each had their OWN full day cop at TAX PAYERS expense. As per leaving the lot, YES the dealer own COULD follow and make a citizens arrest. Otherwise, he could shoot the dumb fuck for trespassing depending on the state where he / she lives. |
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NormanS
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| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9 :Following on your auto dealership example, does the owner of the dealership have authority to pursue and punish a perpetrator that takes one of his/her vehicles without permission? No, that's what law enforcement is for. Law enforcement is an entire system. The auto dealership has the right to make a citizen's arrest, and to press criminal charge against the alleged perpetrator; and may even be able to afford a private security agency with the power of arrest on his premises.
The RIAA pretty much has been employing similar techniques, hiring agents who monitor P2P activity, and provide information toward complaints. They don't need to have the DoJ acting as their private security agents; they already have their own, in Media Sentry, and the like.
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Norman
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axgupta1
join:2005-02-13
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| reply to GOLFnSUN
Aren't there enough laws already to protect IP? What about copyright laws, DMCA? Are you saying that 75% of our economy is IP? It should be in very good shape now if that is the case since our IP is pretty safe. Unfortunately, the stock market doesn't seem to agree with your definition of 75% of economy. |
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