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CIDel

@198.178.8.x

[General] CNAM

CNAM is responsibility of termintating LEC - CNAM is a service that the Called to Subscriber "Pays for"
»www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/voice_i···nam.html has a good diagram of CNAM TCAP dip ..
There are approximatly 14 CNAM/LISB data bases in US Telcommunications.


usa2k
Blessed
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Redford, MI
kudos:3
That is a good start, but providers need to add info to the LIDB Databases, or there is nothing to look up.

Are you just reciting info, or do you have a goal in mind by telling us this?


[ Silly-Mode ]
I can't help thinking of Jerry McGuire ...
Ray: D'you know that the human head weighs 8 pounds?
Jerry Maguire: Did you know that Troy Aikman, in only six years, has passed for 16,303 yards?
Ray: D'you know that bees and dogs can smell fear?
Jerry Maguire: Did you know that the career record for hits is 4,256 by Pete Rose who is NOT in the Hall of Fame?
Ray: D'you know that my next door neighbor has three rabbits?
Jerry Maguire: I... I can't compete with that!

[/ Silly-Mode ]
--
Jim, VoIP since 12/2002, VOIPo 2/7/2007

FAH-Tool ... Whales ... VOIPo Forum ... VOIPo Review

cleal

join:2000-08-24
Fort Worth, TX

1 recommendation

said by usa2k:

That is a good start, but providers need to add info to the LIDB Databases, or there is nothing to look up.
Ability to add/edit the LIDBs is the last bastion of the LECs. No access equals no white pages listings, no directory assistance listings, etc.

Which VoIP vendors provide DIDs with directory assistance listings? Bet it's a short list!

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
said by cleal:

Which VoIP vendors provide DIDs with directory assistance listings? Bet it's a short list!
We provide directory assistance listings, however outgoing CNAM is still being blocked by the carrier.

Whereas providers using level 3 cannot provide directory assistance, yet they can provide outgoing CNAM...

And here I am wishing for a wholesale carrier providing BOTH. How naive.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation


RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO
said by nitzan:

And here I am wishing for a wholesale carrier providing BOTH. How naive.
A couple VOIP providers I rep have found such a wholesale carrier.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
Let me rephrase - "providing both at a REASONABLE PRICE".

cleal

join:2000-08-24
Fort Worth, TX
said by nitzan:

Let me rephrase - "providing both at a REASONABLE PRICE".
Absent reasonable I'd settle for everyone being on level ground. The ILEC's tariffs control reasonableness. Hopefully the FCC will revisit this soon. Six or seven years ago they punted. AT&T fees to access the databases exclude all except the bigger/biggest players.

The ideal is access to ALL rate centers - this is the only way that VoIP can become mainstream and porting numbers practical.


RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO
reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:

Let me rephrase - "providing both at a REASONABLE PRICE".
Yah, I knew you would take that bait! Given that the VOIP market leader sells for $25/month, and the cable companies are even more successful selling at even higher prices, would you still find the wholesale cost that requires that retail price to be unreasonable? Why walk the business? Methinks if you target a "family" product at the $25 price point, include the CNAM and listing, add an extra 1,000 minutes above your current X,000 minute cap, and stress that F9 to F9 calls are free (don't decrement the allowance) that you would have an accepted product choice which would help you raise your average revenue per sub. I'm not advising raising your prices or discontinuing any existing plan, just adding a new one with the CNAM and listing features. You would have a differential advantage over virtually every other VOIP provider (except my two) other than price. And you would diversify a bit from your high percentage international account base. Put it out there and let the people decide!

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
You're making the assumption that VoIP service should cost $25 a month. I think it should cost half of that for light-mid weight customers, and I think they should be allowed to get outgoing CNAM too.

We currently provide everything you mention EXCEPT outgoing CNAM at our (cheaper) price. Why? Because outgoing CNAM alone - just one feature - will require us to double prices.

There is no reason or logic behind this. It will not cost the carrier more to provide us with outgoing CNAM - on the contrary - they will make more revenue from the lookups it generates. They just arbitrarily decided, and we have to live with it.

Don't get me wrong- we'll probably come up with such an "all-included" plan with much higher minute caps, two-way CNAM, etc. but that'll solve the problem only for a small percentage of our users who are willing to pay that much more.


RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO

1 edit
said by nitzan:

You're making the assumption that VoIP service should cost $25 a month.
Vonage, Comcast, Cox, OptimumOnline ... each has more than 2 million customers all paying $25 or more (maybe not OOL). The sub-$15 carriers combined might have 75,000. Perhaps the market is deciding.

ChuckIL9

join:2005-11-07
Peoria, IL
reply to nitzan
I'm curious. Level 3 advertises directory listing and directory assistance capability. Do they not offer it in practice? I purchase DID's from a Level 3 reseller and don't recall them offering directory listing as an option.


RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO
Level 3 might advertise availability for their own retail customers. To offer it on a wholesale basis to VOIP providers is a different issue ... they likely see VOIP lines having much more churn (with a higher level of support required) than their own customers so they might not offer those capabilities, or price them so high as to discourage their use.


VTBrendan
Viatalk
Premium
join:2005-06-27
Clifton Park, NY
kudos:1
reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:

You're making the assumption that VoIP service should cost $25 a month. I think it should cost half of that for light-mid weight customers, and I think they should be allowed to get outgoing CNAM too.

We currently provide everything you mention EXCEPT outgoing CNAM at our (cheaper) price. Why? Because outgoing CNAM alone - just one feature - will require us to double prices.

There is no reason or logic behind this. It will not cost the carrier more to provide us with outgoing CNAM - on the contrary - they will make more revenue from the lookups it generates. They just arbitrarily decided, and we have to live with it.

Don't get me wrong- we'll probably come up with such an "all-included" plan with much higher minute caps, two-way CNAM, etc. but that'll solve the problem only for a small percentage of our users who are willing to pay that much more.
Are you saying that providing the outbound CNAM would require you to double the prices you charge your end users, or that it would double your costs?

-Brendan

soitgoes2
Premium
join:2005-01-14
reply to RockyBB
said by RockyBB:

Vonage, Comcast, Cox, OptimumOnline ... each has more than 2 million customers all paying $25 or more (maybe not OOL). The sub-$15 carriers combined might have 75,000. Perhaps the market is deciding.
I don't know about the others, but Vonage does not, IME, provide outbound CNAM for their $25++/mo. customers.


RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO
said by soitgoes2:

Vonage does not, IME, provide outbound CNAM for their $25++/mo. customers.
That is correct. Wouldn't it just be the bomb if lil' ol' F9 offered that service + listing? Others will confirm, but I'm pretty sure that ViaTalk does at least the CNAM.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
reply to VTBrendan
said by VTBrendan:

Are you saying that providing the outbound CNAM would require you to double the prices you charge your end users, or that it would double your costs?
Both.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
reply to soitgoes2
said by soitgoes2:

said by RockyBB:

Vonage, Comcast, Cox, OptimumOnline ... each has more than 2 million customers all paying $25 or more (maybe not OOL). The sub-$15 carriers combined might have 75,000. Perhaps the market is deciding.
I don't know about the others, but Vonage does not, IME, provide outbound CNAM for their $25++/mo. customers.
Funny, I thought Vonage had outgoing CNAM. If that's the case, Future Nine customers are essentially getting the same thing? or are we missing anything significant that they provide?

I'm pretty sure ViaTalk offers outgoing CNAM but no directory listing. FN offers directory listing but no outgoing CNAM.

Are there any providers that offer BOTH at this point in time?

Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
Reviews:
·Earthlink Cable ..
·VOIPO
CallVantage offers outgoing CNAM. They have had a Directory Listing option in their web portal for a while now (free to be listed, eventual upcharge to be 'unlisted' or 'non-published', but 'free for a limited time' as of now). I've had my account set to 'listed' for a few years, and my name still doesn't show up in the local phone book, so I don't think it works...

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
I talked to my guys, and assuming all goes well, I'm pretty sure we'll be able to offer something along the lines of unlimited local, up to 2000 LD minutes, outgoing and incoming CNAM, directory listing, and fries for $25-ish, maybe a little less.

Will do some experiments to see how well it works before offering to the general public, but it does look doable.


RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO
Way to go! Now let these families pay their monthly bill through their checking accounts instead of goofy Paypal and GooglePay and you'll have a real winner!

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
said by RockyBB:

Way to go! Now let these families pay their monthly bill through their checking accounts instead of goofy Paypal and GooglePay and you'll have a real winner!
hahaha, so that's why you've been pushing me towards the "higher-breakage" price!! ;);)


RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO
Busted!

pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:

I talked to my guys, and assuming all goes well, I'm pretty sure we'll be able to offer something along the lines of unlimited local, up to 2000 LD minutes, outgoing and incoming CNAM, directory listing, and fries for $25-ish, maybe a little less.

Will do some experiments to see how well it works before offering to the general public, but it does look doable.
Ouch. One of the really great appeals of me for Future-Nine is a single price and reliability, quality, service on this board and low cost annual plans. $25 would be getting closer to POTS. Great if you need it, but please keep your current low cost plans!
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
said by pandora:

Ouch. One of the really great appeals of me for Future-Nine is a single price and reliability, quality, service on this board and low cost annual plans. $25 would be getting closer to POTS. Great if you need it, but please keep your current low cost plans!
No worries- I fully realize not everyone wants to pay double just to have outgoing CNAM. I don't think we'll keep America Free exactly as-is long term, but we'll have something comparable instead.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation

compuwizz

join:2001-03-05
Reston, VA
reply to CIDel
You can have people go to listyourself.net and add their own CNAM. Its free and seems to work ok. At least for the pay as you go accounts, this will keep the costs low. For the higher paying customers, doing directory listing through your backend provider is a better service to the customer.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
said by compuwizz:

You can have people go to listyourself.net and add their own CNAM. Its free and seems to work ok. At least for the pay as you go accounts, this will keep the costs low. For the higher paying customers, doing directory listing through your backend provider is a better service to the customer.
I think you are confusing things a bit:

listyourself.net- has nothing to do with CNAM or directory listing, and in the opinion of some people on this forum is a complete hoax. Listing yourself on listyourself.net will NOT get you outgoing CNAM or directory listing.

Directory listing is easy to provide (for us) and we do it for free. Note however that directory listing is NOT CNAM and just because a provider gives you directory listing does not mean you'll have outgoing CNAM.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation

compuwizz

join:2001-03-05
Reston, VA
reply to CIDel
Before I listed on listyourself.net I did not show up on Callerid name when calling landlines. Now it shows my name. Since I have not placed this information anywhere else, I want to believe that this is where that information came from.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8

1 edit
No relation. The way CNAM works makes it impossible for a third party to enter your information into the CNAM database - it has to be your own carrier who did it.

(and this is why it's so difficult to actually provide outbound CNAM - if the number carrier is being stupid about it there's really nothing the provider can do about it)


usa2k
Blessed
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Redford, MI
kudos:3

Re: [General] CNAM

If you have customers that want to may extra ... would their current number have to change? Or does the number get reassigned to another service level?

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8

1 recommendation

I believe we'll be able to just change the service level, but still need to confirm that. (we were told yes, but as all things in life- I'll believe it when I see it.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation