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« SL/SL spec Lock What are some of the advantages?  
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Graytooth13

join:2008-07-28
Tomball, TX

[ Classes] Concern for the WotlK Hunters

After perusing over the changes below and the new talents in WotlK I felt that hunters are being nerfed far too much to my liking. Before the facts I had fantasized about my BM hunter having a rhino tank and 4 manning instances with a decent healer.
Now I ask to those in the PTR and WotlK Beta: '1 What is the use of BM in the expansion? 2 Are they worth a damn? 3 Should I just go MM or SV? 4 What's best for PVP now? 5 What's best for Raiding? 6 If they suck so bad, should I just level a DK or should I level my hunter and wait for the time when I'm buffed again?' Please answer below.

3.0 Hunter changes (as a reminder)
-All aspects now have a 1 second global cooldown, down from a 1.5 global cooldown.
-All pet families now have one unique ability. New abilities have been added for families such as bears and sporebats.
-Stablemasters can now accommodate two additional pets.
-Pets now have their own trees. These can be accessed via the talent panel.
-Animal Handler (Beast Mastery): No longer increases speed while mounted, but now reduces the cooldown of your Master's Call ability by 5/10 sec. :/
--Arcane Shot: No longer dispels magic effects.--
-Aspects now no longer cost mana.
-Aspect of the Beast: Now increases melee attack power by 10% for the hunter and the hunter’s pet. (better than hawk?)
--Aspect of the Viper - The hunter takes on the aspect of the viper, instantly regenerating mana equal to 100% of the damage done by any ranged attack or ability, but reduces your total damage done by 50%. Only one Aspect can be active at a time.--
-Avoidance, Dash / Dive and Cobra Reflexes are now pet talents instead of pet skills. :\
-Bestial Swiftness is now a pet talent tree talent, and has been removed from the Beast Mastery Hunter tree. :\
-Bite now has no cooldown, does the same damage and costs the same Focus as Claw, so works as a Focus dump. :\
-Clever Traps (Survival) has been renamed "Trap Mastery."
-Combat Experience (Marksmanship): Now grants 3/6% Agility, up from 1/2%.
-Concussive Barrage (Marksmanship): Can now proc from Volley and Multi-shot attacks. :\
-Counterattack: Damage increased by 20%, and now also scales with your Ranged Attack Power. :\
-Deterrence (Survival): Cooldown reduced to 3 minutes, and now also increases your chance to resist spells by 60%. Now has a new spell effect.
-Disengage: This ability has been re-designed. Now leaps the Hunter backwards up to 13 yards. 30 second cooldown. Disengage now also only has one rank (rank 1).
-Distracting Shot: This shot now "taunts" the target onto the Hunter. The taunt effect will last 6 seconds. :\ Distracting Shot now only has one rank (rank 1).
-Every hunter pet can learn Growl, Cower and either Bite or Claw (never both). :\
-Focused Fire (Beast Mastery): Now increases the critical strike chance of your Kill Command by 10/20/30% while Kill Command is active. This effect can stack up to 3 times, but diminishes for each charge of Kill Command.
-Hunter pets can now learn talents in one of three trees depending on family. Pets gain talent points starting at level 20 and earn an extra talent point every 4 levels.
If a hunter tames a pet that is more than five levels beneath their own level, the pet will then have their level increased to five levels beneath the hunter’s own level.
-Improved Arcane Shot (Marksmanship): Now increases the damage done by your Arcane Shot by 5/10/15%. (no more reduced cooldown?)
-Improved Feign Death (Survival): This talent has been replaced with Survival Tactics. :\
-Improved Hunter's Mark (Marksmanship): Now a 3-point talent, and now increases the amount of attack power granted by your Hunter's Mark ability by 10/20/30% and reduces the mana cost of your Hunter's Mark ability by 33/66/100%.
-Improved Stings (Marksmanship): Now a 3-point talent, down from 5-points.
-Kill Command: This ability now increases the damage done by your pet's special abilities by 60%. Each attack will reduce the damage bonus by 20%. 1 minute cooldown. :\
-Loyalty, Training Points and the hunter Beast Training button no longer exist. Hunter pets can now learn all skills at their level. They will get new ranks automatically as they gain levels.
-Master Tactician (Survival): Chance to proc increased to 10%, up from 6%.
-Mongoose Bite: No longer requires you to dodge in order to use this ability. :\ huh?
-Monster Slaying (Survival) and Humanoid Slaying (Survival) has been combined into "Improved Tracking". :\
-New Talent - Aspect Mastery (Beast Mastery)
-New Talent - Hunter vs. Wild (Survival): Increases you and your pet's attack power and ranged attack power equal to 10/20/30% of your total Stamina.
-New Talent - Improved Tracking (Survival): Increases all damage done to targets that are being tracked 1/2/3/4/5%.
-New Talent - Lock and Load (Survival): You have a 33/66/100% chance when you trap a target and a 10/20/30% chance when you sting a target to cause your next 3 Arcane Shot or Explosive Shot spells to trigger no cooldown, cost no mana and consume no ammo.
-New Talent - Survival Tactics (Survival): Reduces the chance your Feign Death ability and all trap spells will be resisted by 2/4%, and reduces the cooldown of your Disengage ability by 2/4 sec.
-New Talent - T.N.T. (Survival): Your Immolation Trap, Explosive Trap and Explosive Shot have a 5/10/15% to stun targets for 2 sec when they deal damage, and increases the critical strike chance of your Explosive Shot and Explosive Trap by 5/10/15%.
-Pathfinding (Beast Mastery): Now also increases the movement speed while mounted by 5/10%.
-Rapid Killing (Marksmanship): This will now proc off Chimera Shot, but no longer works with auto-shot.
-Readiness (Survival): Cooldown reduced to 3 minutes, down from 5 minutes.
-Savage Strikes (Survival): Now includes Counterattack.
-Silencing Shot (Marksmanship): This spell will now interrupt the current spell being cast on the target and lock out that school for 3 sec if the target is immune to silence effects.
-Spirit Bond (Beast Mastery): Also increases healing done to you and your pet by 5/10%.
-Steady Shot now uses ammo. In result, its bonus damage has been slightly reduced. Players can notice a damage increase based upon what ammo they use.
-Steady Shot: Now has a 2.0 cast time, up from 1.5.
-Surefooted (Survival) now reduces the duration of movement impairing effects by 16/25/50% (instead of resist % chance).
-Survival Instincts (Survival): This has been moved to tier-2, up from tier 6.
-Survivalist (Survival): Now increases your total Stamina, instead of your total Health.
-The arming time has been reduced to 1 second, from 2 seconds for all traps.
-Tranquilizing Shot: Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds (down from 20), and now dispels Enrage and Magic effects.
-Trap Mastery (Survival) is now an 11-point talent.
-Trueshot Aura - This aura is now raid-wide and now increases all ranged and melee attack power by 10%. In addition, this spell now only has one rank. All other ranks have been removed.
-Wingclip: No longer does damage.

Dropper

join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK

No one really knows how this is going to play out, and whether BM becomes obsolete and MM returns as the cookie cutter DPS spec.

I do know that spending more than 41 pts in BM appears worthless unless you want a weird pet. Wasting 10 talent pts for a fancy looking pet? Not something I'm going to do if I want to be picked for a raid.

Yes I know it's only 5+1, but you need to throw in an extra 4 pts to activate the useless talent that requires 5 pts above the useless talent that gives you a funny looking pet.

MM on the other hand is filled with buffs of all sorts and every part of the tree looks useful.

I haven't taken a long enough look at survival, but I'm thinking this is the hunter's 'subtlety' tree, and as such they're trying to make it the one to use for Arena. My guess is Arena hunters will continue to use a hybrid of MM/SV, maybe SV/MM this time, who knows? But the pally buff at the top of the MM tree suggests it is intended as part of the Arena build too.

Animal handler's mount speed buff was a red herring. You used this to increase your pet's hit rating, which without animal handler is zero. As such it was a very good DPS buff, and whatever else they stick on it is irrelevant. If BM remains the DPS spec, you'll still want animal handler above something like extra armor or health.

Most of the hunter changes are good, some are questionable and like every other class, some appear to be very, very bad. But it took Blizzard close to a year to fix hunters after the last expansion, at least as far as raiding goes, and I expect no less this time round.

We get some buffs for close range damage, which was my biggest bugbear in Arena, not enough imo, but something is better than nothing.

Bottom line is don't be too quick to judge. It'll take months for Blizzard to iron out the kinks, and certainly what we get on patch day will not be the final implementation. For any class. It'll also take months for the cookie cutter specs to be fully worked out. The last thing Blizzard want is for the same thing that happened in the last two end games - only hardcore players participating.

The whole reason they released all those epics was because they felt they'd put in all that work only for 90% of the community to ignore it. If the same thing looks like happening this time, they'll either buff our talents or our gear.


mrdoom

join:2008-09-03
Miami, FL

reply to Graytooth13
Dropper is right we might have to wait to blizzard fixes all the kinks to see but I download the client for the PTR last night and copied over my lock (Demo) and hunter (BM)...

and I have to say from the couple of hours i played didn't really see anything that WoW me on my hunter, now my lock that’s another story I got an extra 200 spell damage from the new revamped demo tree and now I enjoy playing my lock more than my hunter....that metamorphosis kicks ass plus the new racial trait that similar to will of the forsaken sorry i forgot the name, opens up a trinket spot :O), one thing i did notice that with hunter pets got really buffed, they have a form of reincarnation that only has a 7 min CD stuff like that and the pet trees give the impression that pet damage output will dramatically increase

Well I guess we will see when it’s released and the tweak the classes with upcoming patches


PBX Tech
Theory of a Deadman on XM 48 Squizz
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT

reply to Graytooth13
all that i have seen is that BM s a good leveling build. have you seen the vid of the Gorilla as an off-tank? very impressive.
MM will be a good instance/raiding build. pretty good dps.
i will continue to use my Hunter no matter if they are broken or not. there will have to be a place for Hunters in WotLK.
--
I have come to realize that God doesn't want to hear from me anymore.


awesome

join:2008-03-03
Reedsville, OH

reply to Graytooth13
First things first, unless something has changed...Beast Mastery Talent is going to give you additional pet talent points, which can make a big difference.

Is it worth a 51 point talent? I don't know, but I do know it's more than just "a fancy pet".

I would guess with a BM spec & a dps pet your dps will be just fine. Apparently BRK (Big Red Kitty) has tanked instances and bosses with tank pets as Beast Master, so you have that going for you.

Lastly, don't freak. It isn't over yet, and when it is over...if you like you hunter play it. If you don't don't. Rerolling cause you didn't get the buffs you wanted or you got some nerfs is silly.

Dropper

join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK


edit:
September 30th, @01:49PM

I've used my pet to tank Murmur on normal for about 50% of the fight, so having a pet tank is not exactly new. If the additional pts do buff this up some more, then that's great. But at the moment I can think of only two fights out of every raid I've been on where my pet was more than 20 yrds away from me.

Other parts of the BM tree look great. Druidising my pet may work out great too. Specing it for 'cat' or 'feral' seems like an interesting choice depending on the size of the guild and how many tanks you have.

It does appear that one thing Blizzard is trying to do is enable lots of different classes to fill lots of different roles. If hunter pets were truly viable as tanks in heroics or raids, then that would be a great improvement and at least the equal of any other class's mega buff.

edit

Our tank DC'd when Murmur was on about 60-50%, so my cat took over. I know I'm not exactly the first person to do this, in fact another member of our guild had his pet tank the entire fight, which is why I tried it as opposed to feigning and waiting for the tank to re-connect.


mrdoom

join:2008-09-03
Miami, FL


edit:
September 30th, @01:54PM

I don’t know about pets tanking a heroic or raids, but would like the idea of having a pet tank that would be able to do that:O) roll yourself a draenei hunter with a tank pet you have a one man show throw down your heals Mend Pet and gift of naaru, and have you pet tank nightbane while you DPS it....lol

PBX that Vid about a gorilla tanking is it a legit vid? or one of the hacks/private realms where one player can one man BT or something like that or a level 70 gorilla tanking hogger...lol


PBX Tech
Theory of a Deadman on XM 48 Squizz
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT
that gorilla video is legit. thunderstomp ftw.


mrdoom

join:2008-09-03
Miami, FL
I will try to youtube the Vid :O)

kywirelessgu
Premium
join:2004-01-25
Nicholasville, KY
clubs:
just put gorilladan into google.

AOE tanking pet w/ chain volley and 2pc t5, gonna make for some quick leveling.


PBX Tech
Theory of a Deadman on XM 48 Squizz
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQHsq5Nnr6o


ErikVKing
Erik the Viking
Premium
join:2008-06-19
Kuwait


edit:
October 1st, @07:27AM

reply to Graytooth13
-New Talent - Hunter vs. Wild (Survival): Increases you and your pet's attack power and ranged attack power equal to 10/20/30% of your total Stamina.
--Survivalist (Survival): Now increases your total Stamina, instead of your total Health.

So, is Survivalist still 2/4/6/8/10%?

I wonder how viable the PvPer will be in raids now with his Arena/BG gears with this? Just for fun I'm about to go plug in the current S4/Guardian gear with all this to see how much extra AP all that stam will give.

I'm sure a lot will change, but why not? ;o)

edit

Of course I know you'll be missing the +hit, mana regen, and all of the other raid needs, but I'm just curious to see the AP totals at the end.


ErikVKing
Erik the Viking
Premium
join:2008-06-19
Kuwait

Click for full size
AP stam bonus for Hunters in WotLK
Well it seems it's not near as much of an AP addition as I thought at first, if I did the calculations right. I took base stam, multiplied by 0.10 for the total stam with the 10% increase. I then took that and multiplied by 0.30 to get the total AP bonus with the 30% increase from Hunter vs. Wild.

Then I took the total AGI (I assumed 10 AGI sockets for the reds, 5 AGI/HIT for yellow) and added 1 RAP for each point of AGI and added that to the total RAP after the stam bonus.

Eh, it was something different to do anyhow.
--
"I am Jack's utter lack of surprise."


Graytooth13

join:2008-07-28
Tomball, TX

reply to Graytooth13
Well, I'm thinking I'm going to stay BM to level. I'll pick up a tanking pet and do all group quests solo if possible. When I hit 79 I'm thinking I'll go MM and see how it works PVP / raids and then try SV in PVP / arenas. Ultimately, I want to have a successful arena team. (after arthas and all that)
For those who are playing WotLK now, does this seem a viable idea?


PBX Tech
Theory of a Deadman on XM 48 Squizz
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT
yes, BM for leveling as it always has been. MM for raiding, with a few exceptions. SV for PvP.
--
I have come to realize that God doesn't want to hear from me anymore.
-
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