[hard drive] Hard Drive Failure - Realistic Opinions/Suggestions

Author	All Replies
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage	[hard drive] Hard Drive Failure - Realistic Opinions/Suggestions My buddy Joe has a Dell that's a few years old. Long story short, he treats the machine like crap. Turns it off by holding the button, rarely by going to the start menu. He bangs it occasionally when it doesn't work right. A little anger-management is needed, but this isn't the issue here per say. Basically, he's the cause of almost all of his computer issues. For a point of reference, his last computer was picked up and thrown when it didn't work right, and the next day he went out and bought this Dell I'm writing about here. So yesterday he tells me that when he turns on his PC, he gets some message like hard drive failure, or hard drive not found, or something like that. Hoping it was a virus or a corrupted MBR, I gingerly asked, "Is it making any grinding or clicking noises?" His face lit up, and said "YES!", and made the sounds that are indicitive of a hard drive failure. He's a bit worried, as he has a lot of photos on there he needs. I suggested that we bring it to a place that specializes in data recovery, and to NOT TURN IT ON AGAIN. So, the first thing he tells me today is that he turned it on, and tried to get it work. (I know, I know. Don't even get me started. He doesn't listen too well.) Anywho, he balked at the potential cost for the hard drive recovery, which I said could very easily be a few hundred dollars very quickly, and realistically near $1,000. He doesn't want to pay that, and I have no problem helping him in this case for dinner and some beer, although I am relatively unsympathetic to the fact that he's bitching and moaning about how his computers "always break" on him. This being said, what, if anything, is my next move here? I have little or no experience in data recovery from a mechanically-failing HDD. I said I might have to buy a piece of software - at the very least - to handle this, and he's willing to reimburse me for it. What's the best way to handle this? Try Knoppix to copy the files, and if that doesn't work invest in RStudio? Anything better? Should I physically take the drive out and put in one of my external USB enclosures and hook it up to one of my working PCs? I told him absolutely no guarantees at all, and he's fine with that. I may get absolutely nothing from the drive, and he understands. -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-09-30 14:40:19 ·
ChiTang Premium,MVM join:2002-08-23 Alhambra, CA edit: September 30th, @03:24PM	Re: [hard drive] Hard Drive Failure - Realistic Opinions/Suggest Knoppix is free and RStudio is a fantasic commercial product. I would try Knoppix first. Since he is going to reimburse you, you should get RStudio to compensate your inconvinience. As far as hooking the HD in an enclosure. Those software will run without taking the HD out. However, you should still put it an enclosure and check it by your PC. Just to make sure his problem is actually in the HD and not in the MOBO of laptop (before spending the money). -- I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-09-30 15:22:45 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage edit: September 30th, @03:26PM	said by ChiTang : Knoppix is free and RStudio is a fantasic commercial product. I would try Knoppix first. Since he is going to reimburse you, you should get RStudio to compensate your inconvinience. Sounds like an excellent idea. I will do that. said by ChiTang : As far as hooking the HD in an enclosure. Those software will run without taking the HD out. However, I would still put it an enclosure and check it by your PC. Just to make sure his problem is actually in the HD and not in the MOBO of laptop (before spending the money). Ok, I'll give that a shot first to rule out, and then go from there. If the HDD is indeed clicking and making sounds it shouldn't, what can I expect out of RStudio? (Just curious, not expecting anything concrete.) -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-09-30 15:25:41 ·
ChiTang Premium,MVM join:2002-08-23 Alhambra, CA	When the HD clicks, it could mean 1. R/W head tries to move but can't (stucked) 2. R/W head moves freely but makeing noise. 3. R/W head moves freely but touching the platter. For 1,3, no software can fix it, it is a machanical problem. For 1, sometime people just shake the HD a little bit to unstuck it. For 2, you may be able to retrieve all info without any software. Sometimes, when #2 has been there for a long time and some area of the HD is difficult to read, RStudio may be able to fix it. You really are doing your friend a favor and should be compensated for it. You are not going to change his behaviour and this is not going to be the last time. I can be certain that he will come back to you again especially if you do a good job this time. -- I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-09-30 15:47:26 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage	said by ChiTang : You really are doing your friend a favor and should be compensated for it. You are not going to change his behaviour and this is not going to be the last time. I can be certain that he will come back to you again especially if you do a good job this time. Thanks for the info. Oh this is not the first time, nor the last. He usually infects his PC pretty good once a year or so. I'll pickup the software for the heck of it, as I probably will need it this time, or definitely some other time. I'll post back and see how it goes. -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-09-30 15:52:26 ·
ChiTang Premium,MVM join:2002-08-23 Alhambra, CA	Get the software, make a copy, give him the original (when he gives you the money ). This way, he does not feel like you are taking advantage of the situation in any way, shape or form. He will have what he pays for and you'll have an extra tool. Next time, when his HD clicks again, tell him, don't come to me, you have the software. -- I used to be indecisive, now I am not sure.
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-09-30 16:57:14 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage	Well, I have the PC. I turned it on just to hear it and see the error. PC reports HDD failure on the monitor. F1 to continue, F2 to setup, etc. The sound the HDD is making is a definitive, repetitive pattern click, click. tick. click, click. tick. same tempo. Only let it run about 10 seconds, and then shut it off. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. Plus, it's a SATA drive (thought he had an IDE), and I have no external SATA enclosures. So, I think I'll probably open up one of my newer PCs and slap his HDD inside in lieu of the external enclosure. -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-01 14:25:50 ·
CylonRed Premium,MVM join:2000-07-06 Bloom County ·Speakeasy edit: October 1st, @02:52PM	the chance of getting anything off the laptop is less than 1% I would say. Click of death means you will be lucky to get anything off of it unless you take the platters out and put them in another drive case and the reason data recovery is so expensive. You can try the freezer trick but that is the last, last, last resort.
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-01 14:52:11 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage edit: October 1st, @03:11PM	said by CylonRed : the chance of getting anything off the laptop is less than 1% I would say. Click of death means you will be lucky to get anything off of it unless you take the platters out and put them in another drive case and the reason data recovery is so expensive. You can try the freezer trick but that is the last, last, last resort. That's what I sort of figured, but nice to hear the confirmation. I have been under the impression the entire time that the chances of getting data off of this drive is next to nothing. This being said, how hard would it be for me to do exactly that; take out the platters and put them in another drive casing? Basically, a learning experience, and if I happen to get data, then great. Is it even worth my time? I was thinking about the freezer trick, I'll have to read up on the exact process. -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-01 15:05:45 ·
CylonRed Premium,MVM join:2000-07-06 Bloom County ·Speakeasy edit: October 1st, @03:16PM	The tolerances are so close for the heads that you would really need a clean room to remove the platters as dust will interfere with the heads. Process for the freezer trick is not difficult - I tried it once with my mom's hard drive. Took the drive out and attached it to a enclosure for ease, wrapped it in a couple of layers of paper towel, then out it in a plastic freezer bag. Left it in the freezer for a good while then cut a hole in the plastic to insert the power and data cable while it was in the freezer - to prevent condensation and powered it up. In my case - it was a resounding failure. I have a write up and pics somewhere here at DSLR - I will have to try and find the thread. Thought i had pics but I don't see any in the thread: »[hard drive] Official freezer trick instructions...
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-01 15:13:20 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage	said by CylonRed : The tolerances are so close for the heads that you would really need a clean room to remove the platters as dust will interfere with the heads. Well, that sort of closes the book on that unless they let me borrow the clean room here at work. (Finally, something at work that's potentially useful to me, personally! Although they will question while a hard drive is being taken apart, and medication is not being mixed. ) said by CylonRed : Process for the freezer trick is not difficult - I tried it once with my mom's hard drive. Took the drive out and attached it to a enclosure for ease, wrapped it in a couple of layers of paper towel, then out it in a plastic freezer bag. Left it in the freezer for a good while then cut a hole in the plastic to insert the power and data cable while it was in the freezer - to prevent condensation and powered it up. In my case - it was a resounding failure. I have a write up and pics somewhere here at DSLR - I will have to try and find the thread. Interesting. I did a quick search here, and the consensus seems to be leavng it in a few hours/overnight. I wasn't clear from my own search whether or not I was to actually leave the HDD in the freezer while hooked to the PC, or if I could remove it from the freezer. From your reply here, you answered my question. Thanks! I'm off to Newegg to get a SATA enclosure. -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-01 15:19:19 ·
CylonRed Premium,MVM join:2000-07-06 Bloom County	I should ask - the drive is a SATA drive and not a PATA (IDE) correct? Just be sure to get the right connector in teh enclosure. The enclosure is not mandatory but it does make it a bit easier.
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-01 15:21:32 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage	said by CylonRed : I should ask - the drive is a SATA drive and not a PATA (IDE) correct? Just be sure to get the right connector in teh enclosure. The enclosure is not mandatory but it does make it a bit easier. Thanks for your link in your post above this one---gave me a better idea of what I'm supposed to do. Yeah I have a EIDE external enclosure, and I always meant to pickup an SATA enclosure, but never did. Guess now is the time. I think what I'll do is setup my PC in the kitchen, and put the failed drive in the SATA external enclosure, and then run a 6 foot USB cable from it - in the freezer - to my laptop. Someone will need to take a photo of this, as I'm sure I'll get asked what the hell it is I'm doing. -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-01 15:24:17 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage	reply to CylonRed HDD enclosure is here, and ready to go. Hooked up the drive to it, put it in the freezer in the paper towel + bag. Going to leave it in overnight. Sometime tomorrow morning, I'm going to bring my laptop to the freezer, turn on the enclosure while it's in the freezer, and hook the USB cable from it to my laptop. And cross my fingers. In a strange twist of luck, when I looked at his PC today I noticed a second hard drive. Pulled that out, and put it into a spare PC I had here. This second HDD did not crash, and on it was his porn and music - two things he was worried about losing. I guess a few years ago when I setup his PC, I must have setup iTunes to put it on this D: drive. So, looks like the music is saved. However, his newborn baby photographs are on the broken HDD. Until tomorrow... -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-03 18:39:53 ·
btB @sbcglobal.net	reply to Jeffrey Just to make sure, you did run the HD vendor's diagnostic utility & the drive tested bad, correct?
	to forum · permalink · 2008-10-04 00:52:41 ·
CylonRed Premium,MVM join:2000-07-06 Bloom County	It is making the click of death - no need for software to tell him it is bad.
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-04 09:10:09 ·
PeteC2 Ballad Of A Thin Man Premium,MVM join:2002-01-20 Bristol, CT clubs: ·AT&T Yahoo	said by CylonRed : It is making the click of death - no need for software to tell him it is bad. Agreed. At least he's got whatever data is on the secondary drive. Frankly, it is almost beyond bothering to try and recover anything off of the C: drive. Outside of a HD recovery service, there won't be anything coming off of that drive. As described, that is not the kind of error that is very apt to respond to any user-intervention -- ...something is happening here but you don't know what it is...do you, Mr. Jones?
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-04 09:21:24 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage edit: October 4th, @10:37AM	said by PeteC2 : said by CylonRed : It is making the click of death - no need for software to tell him it is bad. Agreed. At least he's got whatever data is on the secondary drive. Frankly, it is almost beyond bothering to try and recover anything off of the C: drive. Outside of a HD recovery service, there won't be anything coming off of that drive. As described, that is not the kind of error that is very apt to respond to any user-intervention Yeah, I agree with you. I don't expect anything to come off this drive. I needed the external SATA enclosure anyway for other things, so that wasn't a big deal to buy. And in a little bit when I just do through the motions here, I'm going to give him a call and just double-check to see if they still might have the photos they need on their camera, in an account on an online photo service, etc. Edit: The reason I'm going through all I that I can is for the baby pictures. Neither he nor his wife have the computer experience to do much, and surely something like this is out of their realm. He doesn't want to fork over the cash for this sort of expensive recovery, so in comes me. He'll be happy I saved the music though. Baby photos though, can't be replaced. It's their first - and last - kid, so that's really why I'm trying to do whatever I can do here. -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-04 10:22:42 ·
seaquake Premium,MVM join:2001-03-23 Millersville, MD clubs: ·Verizon FIOS	IF I were in your position, the first thing I'd tell him is that if he doesn't want to have it professionally recovered, then he should assume that I will lose all the pictures and make the data irrecoverable. So many people figure if the first person screws up, someone else can come behind and fix it. There's a good chance that won't be the case if you can't recover the data and damage the drive worse. You get what you pay for, no offense. If he's OK with that and assumes he's lost everything and won't be pissed at you if that turns out to be the case, then go for it. I hope he doesn't treat his child like his computer.
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-04 11:09:28 ·
Jeffrey Bye George, 1937-2008 Premium join:2002-12-24 Long Island clubs: ·magicjack.com ·Verizon FIOS ·Vonage	said by seaquake : IF I were in your position, the first thing I'd tell him is that if he doesn't want to have it professionally recovered, then he should assume that I will lose all the pictures and make the data irrecoverable. So many people figure if the first person screws up, someone else can come behind and fix it. There's a good chance that won't be the case if you can't recover the data and damage the drive worse. Oh, I've told him that. I said if you want me to look at this, then that's it. There is no second chance. This is specifically why I tell people for any data recovery issues they have, don't see me. See someone else. said by seaquake : You get what you pay for, no offense. If he's OK with that and assumes he's lost everything and won't be pissed at you if that turns out to be the case, then go for it. No offense taken. If I were in his shoes, I'd pay whatever it is to get the photos back and then figure out a backup plan going forward. Music can be replaced, photos cannot. He's pretty much told himself that he's not going to get the photos, after I told him the odds that I would be able to retrieve anything. said by seaquake : I hope he doesn't treat his child like his computer. Thankfully he adores his newborn. It just seems to be machinery he hates. He loves humans and animals. Treats them like gold. Computers, trucks, cars, snow mobiles, microwaves, etc. - anything with an engine or moving parts - he abuses the shit out of. Quick story: Blackout of 2003. I'm at work with him. Office needed a generator ASAP. He had, at that time, a brand new Dodge RAM 1500. Branch manager instructs him to stop what he's doing, and go out and pay cash for a generator at the Home Depot down the block. He gets in his truck, I get in the passenger side. The truck barely has 1,000 miles on it, and he rips out of work, tires smoking. I'm struggling to put on my seat belt before he kills us both. He gets out of our complex, and immediately hits traffic because none of the lights are working, obviously. So, it was either sit in traffic and work your way through safely, or, drive through this housing development that was in the process of being built. No roads, just a lot of dirt, some house frames, and a lot of dirt mounds. So, what does he do but he jumps the curb, and starts flying through the housing development. All you can hear is shit banging off the under-carriage as he's flies through this place. And now I don't know if he meant do really do this or not, but he decided to go over some dirt mound. Personally, I think he misjudged it, but whatever. We hit it, the front of the truck went straight up in the air. For a second or so, we were both there like astronauts in the Space Shuttle waiting to blast off, before the truck came smashing down. Nothing happened to it, but my point of this story is that he's a maniac, and as much as he loves fixing cars, he doesn't treat equipment properly. And then wonders why nothing works. FWIW, that was the last day I ever rode in an automobile with him again. In his defense, he's calmed down a bit over the last 5 years. None the less, I'm sure this is going to be a lesson learned for him here. -- "Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin [my ramblings]
	to forum · permalink · · 2008-10-04 11:37:43 ·


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