NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to TomClancy
Re: Contract Law
said by TomClancy  :Lets say that BayTSP is just downloading without seeding, which I highly doubt. But anyways, with only downloading they can only see the seeders and not the downloaders. They can only see the seeders, no matter what. It is the seeders that they are after.
So how are they caching people that are just downloading and not seeding anything.
Any legitimate (not cracked) P2P client is always uploading something, in some manner. I've tried to block uploading with uTorrent; can't be done. At the very least, there is a port 80 connection being made (outbound, to remote port 80). Most people don't try to block connections to outbound port 80.
That just tells me the they are seeding as well. If they have authorization to seed then I have the same authorization to download. You can't give me your car keys to your car and then turn around and tell me that I stole it. Doesn't matter which way they go they are still breaking the law to prosecute someone. Which wouldn't fly in court.
They may, or may not, be seeding. You can try to fight in in court, if it happens to you. I don't actually know how they do it, but I know how I would do it. And the method I use would fly in court. It would catch those making unauthorized copies available for download. The point you need to remember: P2P is supposed to both upload, and download. That is the point of "filesharing". Most P2P apps will choke a client which is only leeching, without seeding, to the point that you might as well be using a dial-up connection for your downloads, if you manage to block your client from seeding.
BTW, Idiocracy is a good movie, it reminds me of this forum, you should see it. 
As far as comparing to this forum, you are playing, too!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
| reply to TomClancy
said by TomClancy :...it tells you that my client is trying to connect to BayTSP without me even seeding anything. Yes, and that's somewhat troubling to me, too. Even though I am not infringing anything, these guys manage to show up simply because I show up as a DHT node, or they monitor legal torrents, or by some other way that I don't understand. Once they showed up in a public swarm when I was sharing DaVinci's Notebook (it's very Public Domain)!
Anyone who does P2P should use Peer Guardian. These guys are intruders and are (at the least) a tax to a swarm if not (worse) directly interfering with it.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
|
|
TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
...
1 edit | reply to funchords
Thanks for being reasonable.
Just one last note before I drop this. Here is the prove that BayTSP is seeding also.
Well if I look at it again it might not prove much but it tells you that my client is trying to connect to BayTSP without me even seeding anything.
--
Freedom isn't free! |
|
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to TomClancy
said by TomClancy :Never mind, you can't be that dumb. I'm just gonna leave and continue to watch Idiocracy. .. calls the idiot who states being he has a right to privacy in the public square.  |
|
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to TomClancy
said by TomClancy :You do that and I call the cops. What is going to happened? When you are in public, you do not have "a reasonable expectation to privacy"... if you don't want to be photographed, if you don't want to be watched, you have a right to stay out of the public square, in your home, behind your curtains, where you DO have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
If you call the cops, they will tell you the same thing.
Ever heard of the cases constantly be tossed out of court recently regarding this? Girls/boys gone bad? (The ones where they film people at Mardi-Gras or Spring Break acting fools and selling it?) How about the cases where someone was in public in a restaurant and her photo was shot and sold (sorry, forget the name, but recently on CNN & Fox News).. all tossed out.
When you are in public, you can't expect that what you do wont be captured on some sort of media, and used, because it can.
Now stalking.. there are very specific conditions that have to be met prior to you using THAT as a claim. |
|
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :It is not 'cracking technology' though according to Real. It allows a 'fair use' transfer from one media to another, not the creation of another copy of the work. This is some murky (and deep) water. .. and for once, we agree. |
|
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to TomClancy
Generally, trackers give you a random list of xxx members of the swarm. If your client drops seeders while you're seeding (and nearly all do), that's a function of the client, not the tracker.
I think your observation, "So how are they caching people that are just downloading and not seeding anything. That just tells me the they are seeding as well. If they have authorization to seed then I have the same authorization to download," is a valid one. Keep in mind that we're talking about DMCA notices in this case, not pre-litigation settlements, lawsuits or criminal actions. The bar of proof is not high at all. They literally only need to see your IP address in the swarm.
I wonder about NormanS's position that MediaSentry has the right to connect to the tracker -- given that they're not sources. That situation has a ton of nuances. As he says, MediaSentry probably has the right to connect by default, and the tracker owner has the right to say who can and cannot connect. MediaSentry probably loses that right should the server owner demand it must stop connecting. It certainly also loses that right if its intent is to electronically disrupt/attack the tracker or the peers in the swarm (which many antip2p companies have done). (This commentary applies only to the tracker, which is a different thing than the website.)
Thanks for the Idiocracy tip.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
|
|
TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
...
| reply to NormanS
said by NormanS :I hope you don't play chess. If you think through your chess moves as thoroughly as you think through how the agents of IP owners obtain their information, you must lose. A lot. Dude, spare me with you chess club. |
|
TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
...
1 edit | reply to NormanS
Lets say that BayTSP is just downloading without seeding, which I highly doubt. But anyways, with only downloading they can only see the seeders and not the downloaders. So how are they caching people that are just downloading and not seeding anything. That just tells me the they are seeding as well. If they have authorization to seed then I have the same authorization to download. You can't give me your car keys to your car and then turn around and tell me that I stole it. Doesn't matter which way they go they are still breaking the law to prosecute someone. Which wouldn't fly in court.
BTW, Idiocracy is a good movie, it reminds me of this forum, you should see it.
--
Freedom isn't free! |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to TomClancy
I hope you don't play chess. If you think through your chess moves as thoroughly as you think through how the agents of IP owners obtain their information, you must lose. A lot.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to TomClancy
said by TomClancy :What? From your logic than BayTSP is guilty also. I assume that you mean of "unauthorized" distribution? Or do you mean of downloading?
Either way, I am not sure why you would think that. They can certainly run a P2P client which merely downloads. And, as authorized agents for those clients seeking protection of their IP, their clients (the IP owning ones, not the downloading ones) surely give them permission to D/L from P2P networks, as a method of obtaining those very public announcements I mentioned. So they would not be guilty of anything. The issue is "authorization"; and their clients aren't going to deny them authorization to join torrents, or do whatever else it takes to obtain that publicly announced IP address.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | reply to TomClancy
No, it was a sincere question. |
|
TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
... | reply to funchords
Never mind, you can't be that dumb. I'm just gonna leave and continue to watch Idiocracy.
--
Freedom isn't free! |
|
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | reply to TomClancy
guilty of what? |
|
TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
... | reply to NormanS
What? From your logic than BayTSP is guilty also.
--
Freedom isn't free! |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to TomClancy
said by TomClancy :Just because I'm walking on a PUBLIC road doesn't mean you have the right to track my movements. Get it, go it? Good! If I am wearing a sandwich board offering free peanuts, you damned well can follow me around, trying to get them.
P2P means participating in a public exchange of data. You advertise (the sandwich board) that you have something to offer; advertise it to the public. You are inviting public scrutiny. And MediaSentry has just as much right to connect to the public BitTorrent tracker as you, or I. And to figure out who is doing what with that tracker.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to TomClancy
It's not illegal.
When I'm in public, I'm not in private. Someone can follow me, photograph me, call their friends daily and tell them what I'm wearing -- all legal.
Public is the opposite of private.
It doesn't mean that someone can harass or threaten me, but they certainly can track my public movements and there's nothing I can do about it.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
|
|
TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
... | reply to funchords
You do that and I call the cops. What is going to happened?
--
Freedom isn't free! |
|
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to TomClancy
said by TomClancy :Just because I'm walking on a PUBLIC road doesn't mean you have the right to track my movements. Ummm. Yeah, it does. |
|
TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
... | reply to NormanS
Just because I'm walking on a PUBLIC road doesn't mean you have the right to track my movements. Get it, go it? Good!
--
Freedom isn't free! |
|
