Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
 ·Verizon FIOS
| 3.0 - Possible Huge Raid Nerf
Players are reporting on 3.0 that raid bosses and trash mobs are all sitting with 30% less health. So far, some Sunwell/BT stuff has been checked out. This would be interesting if this happened to hit live.
It would make sense. Content is gonna dry up, right? May as well let everyone see the most content they can in their last month.
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I melt faces. |
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AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Or it could just be something on the test server to make "testing" easier for those piddling around. Who knows. I'd just think that -30% health to all mobs would equate to a raiding item "fire sale", and if Blizzard were to get that desperate for subscriber retainment, they'd be throwing arena items at us as well, lol. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| I don't see it as desperate for subscriber retention. What I see it as... is them trying not to make the same mistake they've been saying they've been making, which is shutting people out from raid content completely. They wanted to keep the hard core folks happy and busy. They've suceeded by aking Sunwell pretty hard for even hardcore guilds.
There's no reason to block people from content when people are really only going to use it for another month after 3.0 hits. |
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Hazmat
join:2007-07-10
Laveen, AZ
| I don't really see TBC content only being used "for another month" after WoTLK goes live.
DKs hit the scene, i.e., Outland, at 58. To get to 70 and beyond, they have to quest and instance. There should be enough players around to enable all to continue to do so.
What may become barren is Azeroth. I cannot see players wanting to level alts from level 1 again, and Blizz will not allow a general "start at 55" scenario - unless they make new starting locations, as they did for the DKs. |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
| reply to Archivis
I also don't see it as a method of subscriber retention, but rather a last attempt to get more people to play the end game content.
They shot themselves squarely in the foot when they made the decision to abandon 10-man versions of 25 man raids in BC.
They also didn't like the fact that only 10% of their subscribers actually had the ability to raid the content they spent so much time developing.
Lowering the health of bosses is simply a way of making raids more accessible to guilds who can't make the step up to T5 or T6 raids.
With 40 man raids, even low skilled players got in on a lot of old world content. Not even close to everyone, but a lot more than have been into Hyjal, BT and Sunwell. They hoped that the percentage of players getting into these raids would go up, not down.
Thing is if they'd gone ahead and done the 10 man versions, they'd actually have solved a far bigger problem. Getting 25 people to raid isn't much of a problem. The problem is apparently finding 25 people who understand standing still in fire is bad.
I guarantee that every guild that hit a wall in SSC, TK, Hyjal or BT, could probably have progressed if they could have taken 10 of their best and done a slightly less complex version.
Whether they'd want to is another issue, but I reckon the option would have kept a number of guilds alive.
I truly believe that people would have preferred to run a slightly easier version of the end game, rather than quit guilds and have to prove themselves all over again in order to get a raid place. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Hazmat
said by Hazmat  :I don't really see TBC content only being used "for another month" after WoTLK goes live. DKs hit the scene, i.e., Outland, at 58. To get to 70 and beyond, they have to quest and instance. There should be enough players around to enable all to continue to do so. I was talking about 3.0, not WotLK. I can absolutely guarantee you that the amount of raids going into BT compared to the current amount of raids in BT is going to be like 1% as soon as WotLK hits.
You're going to see those instances run with the frequency that Naxx, BWL and AQ40 have been run in the past two years.
Nobody is going to step foot in tiered instances to "level up". Not even the DK's. |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK | reply to Archivis
If they have done it then it's probably the lesser evil. The other choices being turn all 25 man raid bosses into tank and spank, making fire a neat place to hang out or removing fire completely from the game. |
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Jakiel00
join:2007-12-12
Mckinney, TX
| reply to Dropper
said by Dropper :I guarantee that every guild that hit a wall in SSC, TK, Hyjal or BT, could probably have progressed if they could have taken 10 of their best and done a slightly less complex version. QFT! MY guild has about 15-20 quality guys that couldn't get past the SSC, TK, Hyjal raids because of this. My server is a low pop server and we could have all moved off the server to better our core grp of members, but couldn't help but stay since we have been there since 2005. If they would have had a 10 man instance version I am sure I would have seen alot more. If they end up dropping the health by 30%, then we are going to resume raiding again until WOTLK just because we all want to see the end game content. |
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Hazmat
join:2007-07-10
Laveen, AZ
| reply to Dropper
Dropper, in addition to your (very valid) points.
Part of the problem also is that, to raid with a guild that is doing Hyjal, BT, and Sunwell, you need to be able to have 80% minimum attendance at raids. And so-called hard-core raiding guilds do so five days a week.
Some of us can't anymore - my job, for example, has me on a plane somewhere most often than not. So I joined a "more casual" guild. But we have, at most, 12 -15 people that raid, so any 25-man instances become mixed-guild scenarios. Better than a PUG, no doubt, but you never know until you get there who has been there before, and know the moves, or not.
If Blizz were to come up with 10-man versions of today's TBC 25-mans, now that would be an improvement. Especially useful when a lot of players move on to WoTLK content, leaving the next generation to wonder what Black Temple looked like. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Nobody needs to do 5 days to reach Sunwell. There are guilds on a 3-day a week schedule that have killed KJ.
People who suck have to spend 30 hours a week to do what better players can do in 12. |
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Melleen
join:2006-11-20
| What TBC brought was a streamline in raiding. 10 for the more casual or hardcore guild farming badges. 25 man for the serious (or at least, more serious guild).
right now, in Beta. All raid instances are 10 and 25 (normal and heroic). THAT for me, makes sense.
Raiding is changing again. |
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crazediamond
That's Dr. Craze to you
Premium
join:2002-01-19
Germantown, MD | reply to Archivis
Its worth pointing out that there are some significant raid nerfs incoming (potion sickness, buff stacking), so the hp reduction may be to counteract that so that people aren't all of a sudden unable to do the encounters. |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
| reply to Melleen
I've always thought a 'heroic' version of Kara would be fun.
There comes a point where killing Maiden in under 2 minutes or Shade before the polymorph / pyroblast makes things a bit too easy to be fun.
Sure you could use an old set of gear, but I'm not much of a horder, and even most of my Kara drops have long since been vendored. Giving Kara a lvl 80 or heroic version might make a fun alternative to some of the new raids. After all they did mention something about re-vamping old world raids to make them more relevant.
Kara is one of my favorite raids, simply because of the theme. I loved the opening sequences to Opera, the whole undead banquet thing with Moroes. I'm just a sucker for horror/vampire style fantasy settings. |
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The WeaseL
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Sartell, MN
clubs: 
| reply to Archivis
said by Archivis :Nobody needs to do 5 days to reach Sunwell. There are guilds on a 3-day a week schedule that have killed KJ. People who suck have to spend 30 hours a week to do what better players can do in 12. QFT.
Hardcore != raiding every night of the week.
Casual != piss poor performance. |
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AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by The WeaseL :said by Archivis :Nobody needs to do 5 days to reach Sunwell. There are guilds on a 3-day a week schedule that have killed KJ. People who suck have to spend 30 hours a week to do what better players can do in 12. QFT. Hardcore != raiding every night of the week. Casual != piss poor performance. I'll vouch for this as well. Unfortunately, I'm lacking a schedule to commit to any "hardcore casual" guilds of any calibur. Plus, I'm helping my GF run her own "social club" guild in the meantime with the time I do have. Maybe we might see some 10 man content, I dunno.
Until then, I'm happily beating the tar out of the PvE geared folks on my server. Wearing T6/Sunwell color confiruation armors on our isle is a death sentence, lol.  |
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POMPyroIsFun
join:2008-06-02
Fort Lauderdale, FL
| reply to Archivis
I welcome any nerf at this point. My realm is pretty much all end-game players or extreme pvpers. While leveling alts, I can't even find 5 people to get together for a lowbie dungeon. That is not my point though. My point is that I do not have time to do a lot of raiding. If it is planned in advance, I can get maybe 2 nights a week. So, I'm stuck with 1 piece Kara gear, 1 piece Spellfire gear, and 5 pieces of PVP (3 S1, 2 S2) that I got wellfare from BGs. That is all the armor I have to swap around. So, when I do try to raid, I get turned down by everyone. They claim I am too undergeared to even run Kara, when I know from experience that I can run it easily provided the healer and tank are not idiots. Bring on the nerf! Give guys like me a chance to actually see some end game content for once.
BTW, I am very much looking forward to the new raiding changes in WotLK, 10-man versions of everything FTW! |
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tdumaine
join:2004-03-14
Redmond, WA
 ·Comcast
| said by POMPyroIsFun :I welcome any nerf at this point. My realm is pretty much all end-game players or extreme pvpers. While leveling alts, I can't even find 5 people to get together for a lowbie dungeon. That is not my point though. My point is that I do not have time to do a lot of raiding. If it is planned in advance, I can get maybe 2 nights a week. So, I'm stuck with 1 piece Kara gear, 1 piece Spellfire gear, and 5 pieces of PVP (3 S1, 2 S2) that I got wellfare from BGs. That is all the armor I have to swap around. So, when I do try to raid, I get turned down by everyone. They claim I am too undergeared to even run Kara, when I know from experience that I can run it easily provided the healer and tank are not idiots. Bring on the nerf! Give guys like me a chance to actually see some end game content for once. BTW, I am very much looking forward to the new raiding changes in WotLK, 10-man versions of everything FTW! So you can rob another guild bank? |
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Margolis
Premium
join:2003-11-24
Saint Louis, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to Hazmat
said by Hazmat :What may become barren is Azeroth. I cannot see players wanting to level alts from level 1 again, people starting at lvl 1 aren't just alts. There are still lots of people that haven't tried the game yet and will just be getting into it. They have to start at 1, they can't start a dk until they hit 70 with a main unless blizz changes that.
Plus, there are a lot of people that do like leveling, so they will still be playing the old world. |
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Dodge
join:2002-11-27
clubs:
| reply to tdumaine
said by tdumaine :said by POMPyroIsFun :I welcome any nerf at this point. My realm is pretty much all end-game players or extreme pvpers. While leveling alts, I can't even find 5 people to get together for a lowbie dungeon. That is not my point though. My point is that I do not have time to do a lot of raiding. If it is planned in advance, I can get maybe 2 nights a week. So, I'm stuck with 1 piece Kara gear, 1 piece Spellfire gear, and 5 pieces of PVP (3 S1, 2 S2) that I got wellfare from BGs. That is all the armor I have to swap around. So, when I do try to raid, I get turned down by everyone. They claim I am too undergeared to even run Kara, when I know from experience that I can run it easily provided the healer and tank are not idiots. Bring on the nerf! Give guys like me a chance to actually see some end game content for once. BTW, I am very much looking forward to the new raiding changes in WotLK, 10-man versions of everything FTW! So you can rob another guild bank? And I am sure you are an angel who never done anything bad to anyone in or out of WoW. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | I wonder if that's what a bank thief tells a prosecutioner who only has a speeding ticket or two on his record. |
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