NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| reply to knightmb
Re: Does Fiber Conduct Electrcity?
It's not about the fiber optic cable carrying voltage, its about the grounding of the ONT, which has electronics in it and also connects to the coax in your house, which can have a voltage on it from crappy VCRs, TVs and other AV equipment.
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. |
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Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Here's what I don't understand....
I have AT&T U-Verse FTTP. I have your typical setup with a UPS inside the garage and an ONT mounted outside.
Why couldn't they have just mounted the ONT inside the garage and terminated my cat5 there?
It seems they could have put a simple passive enclosure on the outside of the house where the ONT is just to allow for the fiber to bend slowely and then go through the wall through a small conduit pipe.
Then the ONT could have just mounted inside the house like any other piece of CPE with simplified grounding requirements.
Do they really need that much access to the ONT to have it outside? |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to NetAdmin
however shouldnt that be handled by the third prong on the plug? not that an earth ground would hurt, can never be oversafe.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| said by Kearnstd  :however shouldnt that be handled by the third prong on the plug? not that an earth ground would hurt, can never be oversafe. In the previous discussions on this topic, it was noted that the electrical power to the ONT is supplied by a two prong plug.
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. |
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Austinloop
join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
1 edit | reply to Enlightener
The usual reason for the ONT, or the SMI for copper pots service being on the outside of the house is to allow the technician access without having to have someone at home to provide access.
This is somewhat different from business locations which, quite frequently have the network demarc located in side the building, as there is usually access to the that location through out the day, as well as off hours if there is trouble.
Having it on the outside allows testing of the facility, while removing the CPE from the equation. Should CPE be found to be the trouble, arrangements can be made to access, or, the customer can do his own CPE maintenance, depending on the individual situation. |
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jacour
join:2001-12-11
Ypsilanti, MI
 ·Comcast
| reply to Kearnstd
Grounding is a very complex topic, but suffice it to say that while the third prong on a standard electrical plug provides a degree of safety, it does not cure all ills and is not designed to handle lightning which can supply voltages of several hundred kV.
When you take a lightning strike on one part of your house, the electricity has to go somewhere. If one path is grounded and the others are not, you get different electrical potentials and current flow through the house, potentially frying much of the system and anything attached to it. Your computer surge supressor is designed to knock down transient voltage spikes from the electric company; it will not take care of big spike.
The right solution is to take the spike to ground BEFORE it enters the house, not after. If the external installation is properly grounded, that is exactly what happens. In an ideal situation, all sources of aberrant voltages are grounded externally and all ground rods are bonded together (i.e. the ground rods for your main electrical panel, cable, antennas, etc. are tied together).
The issue here is not the fiber optic, it is the other copper conductors in the box. |
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kdwycha
join:2003-01-30
Riverview, FL
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to NetAdmin
In the previous discussions on this topic, it was noted that the electrical power to the ONT is supplied by a two prong plug. Just went out into my garage and my ONT has 3 prong plug. I was thinking the same thing when I was just on the toilet having my morning poo after reading this. Fiber doesnt conduct electricity very well and the ONT is grounded by the third prong. |
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Austinloop
join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX | reply to jacour
Based on the results of some lightning strikes on houses here in recent months, the grounding of the ONT would be the least of the homeowner's worries, rebuilding the house and replacing the contents would be much higher on the priority list. |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
1 edit | reply to kdwycha
said by kdwycha :Just went out into my garage and my ONT has 3 prong plug. I was thinking the same thing when I was just on the toilet having my morning poo after reading this. Fiber doesnt conduct electricity very well and the ONT is grounded by the third prong. Before making wise-ass comments, I'd recommend knowing what you are talking about. For your reading pleasure:
»Ground and Bond class will start asap...
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. |
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Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to Austinloop
I understand (see my very last statement) but if the powersupply is on the inside, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?
Besides, they (AT&T in my case) have already deployed the remote gateway ( that has the VOIP TA built in ) and STB's for video far into the customer area so I'm kind of wondering if the old pattern of `this is the demarc` isn't just obsolete by now. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| No, it hasn't made it obsolete yet.
In your case of the gateway, that is now considered CPE (Customer Premise Equipment) which is no different that a cable box or telephone.
There still has to be a place where their (network provider) and your (customer wires) meet together which is still the DMK point outside.
Your gateway still connects to the plant via your inside wire which is still bridged outside with the plant side. Any and all testing is still done outside the home, not inside.
Just in the case as cable TV, testing is still performed at the ground block (outside) and if they need to get to the cable box (which is the same as your gateway/TA) they'd need you home.
What is happening with the case of AT&T is that they pushed your telephone dial tone inside. That device that gives you dial tone still feeds back outside to the wiring where the testing is still done. In the case of an ONT such as Verizon or other fiber services, your dial tone still terminates outside in that ONT. In the case of VOIP, which is what you have, dial tone is not of their immediate concern since it's not a regulated service. They are more concerned that you have a clean data connectivity outside FOR that gateway to establish connection with.
Make sense? |
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Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
| It makes sense except that I'm not sure the gateway is considered CPE.
The latest TOS I saw says that AT&T owns the gateway, you agree to allow them to manage it, and you return it when you leave.
When I converted from FTTP ala legacy DSL to U-Verse FTTP they took my old gateway. I hadn't even realized they did it until it was too late and my old TOS didn't allow that for what I recalled. |
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ashworth
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Anything on your side of the demarcation point(usually inside) is considered CPE. Which again stands for Customer Premise Equip, which can be owned by the customer or the Co. providing service. In PA we call it tariffed (outside demarc, company serving side) and detariffed(customers side of demarc). |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to Enlightener
Managing it allows them access to get in to it and make changes. You must return it because they own it. This is the same as a cable box would be or a cable modem, or, in the past, a leased telephone handset.
Ownership doesn't have any determination on what a CPE is, rather, where its placed.
Your old gateway, which was owned by them, aka "DSL modem" if it was leased was theirs to take in the first place. Your old TOS most certainly did allow them to take their CPE/DSL Modem if it was leased. Now, if you purchased it and they took it, then there is a problem for you to resolve.
And, by the way, you don't have fiber to the premise in either case of DSL or U-Verse. Its just fiber into the node or as some people call them, the refrigerator. |
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Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX | The old TOS did not allow them to take the gateway but frankly I don't care.
BTW, I most certainly do have fiber to the premise. I'm really getting sick of so called experts trying to tell me what I do and don't have. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | Ok - put your money where your mouth is...
1) Try answering the questions that were asked of you.
2) Point us "so-called experts" where at&t has fiber to the premise.
3) Point us/me to the TOS that says they don't have the right to take the gateway (which could have been answered by you actually answering the questions asked of you above)...
... or, why don't you stop posting on a public DISCUSSION FORUM things that, quite frankly some so-called experts know better about, you're most likely to get called to the table on when it smells like bullshit.
You stuck your neck out there, and now your getting your face slapped. You can do two things, participate in the discussion that you brought up, or, shut up, walk away and look a fool.. the choice is yours.
(and for the record, this so-called "expert" can tell you that FTTP was not DSL... no matter what you think you have or had) |
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riojew04532
@cia.com
| You mean like these people: »Review of AT&T FTTP by MarkyD
And these ones: »utalk.att.com/utalk/board/messag···id=12867
U-verse is two things: FTTN VDSL in brownfield existing homes. In new suburbs and other greenfield sites where there is no copper, it will be FTTH/FTTP using GPON most of the time.
Just like Verizon uses VDSL for condos/apartments and has two types of PON equipment there are two types of u-verse. |
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