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Mark Z
Premium Member
join:2002-10-14

Mark Z

Premium Member

FTA in Canada

Is it for real?
Is it theft?
Any Canadian content?
Will my Bell TV dish work with FTA?
If this is real, why isn't everyone doing it?

Very curious, seems to good to be true.

happylurk
@dsl.look.ca

happylurk

Anon

WTF is FTA?
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

Robrr

Member

Free To Air Satellite

Hydraglass
Premium Member
join:2002-05-08

Hydraglass to Mark Z

Premium Member

to Mark Z
Legal to watch OTHER country's satellite programming. Illegal if you turn the receiver to point at a Canadian satellite (i.e. star choice or expressvu). No you won't find Canadian content on those other satellites. You'll get something like Dish Network or DirecTV for the most part. As those carriers don't have agreements in Canada - you're not technically breaking the law to watch them.

Unfortunately you have other issues - the carriers change and upgrade their encryption methods regularly, so you constantly have to be upgrading and flashing the code on your receiver. Sometimes it can take a week or more for the FTA "hackers" to crack those codes and release new firmware for you.

So :
FTA - good to use for watching stuff that you don't want to pay for but don't care if you can't get it for a while.
Non-FTA Pay Satellite: good to use for stuff you don't mind paying for, and you know it'll always be on and available.

Most people I know who have FTA use it in combination with either a "basic" local cable subscription, or a second dish pointed at either star choice or expressvu, with a legal receiver and a minimum subscription just covering their "must have" viewing. (This is all for people who live where over the air TV is just not at all an answer - like here in Kingston where an antenna will get you 2 channels - maybe 3 - no US networks, CTV, and sometimes maybe CBC, and Global). If you live somewhere that you get a good variety of OTA tv with an antenna, FTA might be a wonderful "free supplemental programming" addition.

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

andyb to Mark Z

Premium Member

to Mark Z
Yes FTA is for real.There are lots of free channels to be found.Your bell dish however is to small and its the wrong LNB.FTA needs linear lnb's.Something like a 33" dish would be good.A motor added to it would be even better.
Wild feeds are fun to watch at times also.

FTA satellites and stations
»www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/
»www.lyngsat.com/america.html

123west is very popular

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
Premium Member
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0 to Mark Z

Premium Member

to Mark Z
said by Mark Z:

If this is real, why isn't everyone doing it?
do you live under a rock?

FTA is HUGE and has been for years...it's just that people don't brag about it as much and lay low.

Devanchya
Smile
Premium Member
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON

Devanchya

Premium Member

You know I tried FTA, and only "real" FTA... wasn't worth it for most things. I get better HD content on the Over-the-air systems...
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

Robrr to Mark Z

Member

to Mark Z
Planning on setting up an FTA when I move into the city here as my new apartment has a clear view of the southern and western skies.

Going to use the FTA in conjunction with an OTA setup as it will give me way more tv than I will ever watch

ftarules
@teksavvy.com

ftarules to Hydraglass

Anon

to Hydraglass
said by Hydraglass:

Unfortunately you have other issues - the carriers change and upgrade their encryption methods regularly, so you constantly have to be upgrading and flashing the code on your receiver. Sometimes it can take a week or more for the FTA "hackers" to crack those codes and release new firmware for you.

I've been running on the same firmware for 2.5 months now. Updating firmware takes about 5 mins and when Bell and DishNetwork do screw with things new firmware is released in 1-2 hours NOT WEEKS.

You either connect a small serial cable to your computer and upload the new firmware or use USB thumb drive. Copy the firmware to it, plug it in the front and BAM your TV is back on.

Details:
»www.ftabins.net/
»www.fta-newbies.com/

And if you are buying I suggest.

»www.worldwidesatellites.com and »www.justfta.com I've used them both and recommend them.

Snickerdo3
Premium Member
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON

Snickerdo3 to Mark Z

Premium Member

to Mark Z
I've been doing it for years. Great hobby.

Hydraglass
Premium Member
join:2002-05-08

Hydraglass to ftarules

Premium Member

to ftarules
said by ftarules :

I've been running on the same firmware for 2.5 months now. Updating firmware takes about 5 mins and when Bell and DishNetwork do screw with things new firmware is released in 1-2 hours NOT WEEKS.
I didn't say "Always" - as I said in my post "Sometimes" it can take a week or more - about every 2-3 months is correct for how often firmware bins have to be updated, but 3 times in the last 4 years I was out for around a week. Yes the majority of times it was less than a day - often around 4 hours from what I've found.

The problem is, if you're like me, and have a family who just want the TV to work when they turn it on, even telling them to wait 4 hours is unacceptable. Telling them to wait 4 to 5 days is a death sentence on the FTA receiver and you'll find it in the dumpster the next day when you get home, and the ExpressVu installer on a ladder at the back of your house.

So it was just a warning - it's not flawless - you have to be willing to do the firmware bin updates, sometimes at the most inopportune time (in the middle of a movie, football or hockey game, the season premiere of Gray's Anatomy, you name it) - and _sometimes_ the waiting for that BIN can be a killer. If on the other hand you have another source for your regular programming, as I said basic cable, OTA antenna, basic Satellite service, etc. and you use your FTA to watch things like Starz, HBO, Cinemax, US network feeds, etc. and won't be inconvenienced by an outage, then by all means.. FTA FTW.

And unlike AndyB - I use my FTA receiver on an old ExpressVu dish just fine - I have an LNB provided with the FTA receiver that I mounted to the old ExpressVu arm with no problem at all and it works perfectly. Considering the ExpressVu dish *IS* the Dish Network dish re-branded, there's little to no reason you can't use it to "see" any of the Dish Network satellite feeds. I've never had a problem with signal strength. A motorized mount would be sweet however - but I've settled in with it pointed at one sat for now (I use my FTA at my cottage, and when I'm going for a long stay I take one of my BeV receivers from home with me just in case there's a "firmware outage").
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather to Mark Z

Premium Member

to Mark Z
FTA is very much for real. However, the death sentence will come when Nagra 3 is fully implemented.

The kicker is (as Hydraglass pointed out) you can't rely on it as your primary programming source. ECM's are unpredictable and the last thing you want is for the bin to go down in the middle of something.

If you're looking for true FTA, G10R at 123w is by far the best.

BigSensFan
Premium Member
join:2003-07-16
Belle River, ON

BigSensFan

Premium Member

What type of programming do they have on G10r?

And as to the 'legality' of FTA I dont think it is legal even if you are pointing at the US Dishes.

As for Nagra 3, they said the same ting about Nagra 2

nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

nitzguy

Premium Member

said by BigSensFan:

What type of programming do they have on G10r?

And as to the 'legality' of FTA I dont think it is legal even if you are pointing at the US Dishes.

As for Nagra 3, they said the same ting about Nagra 2
I was about to say the same thing...I remember working for a cable company back when Nagra 2 came out and...well...its still alive .

As they say...its like a spiraling staircase, they'll implement new protections, people will move to "circumvent" those protections for their TV viewing experience.

...meh, I'm sure for those people who end up paying $0/Mth for their TV viewing experience can handle some downtime from time to time.

I know I would

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

andyb to Hydraglass

Premium Member

to Hydraglass
said by Hydraglass:

And unlike AndyB - I use my FTA receiver on an old ExpressVu dish just fine - I have an LNB provided with the FTA receiver that I mounted to the old ExpressVu arm with no problem at all and it works perfectly. Considering the ExpressVu dish *IS* the Dish Network dish re-branded, there's little to no reason you can't use it to "see" any of the Dish Network satellite feeds.
The exvu dish/lnb will work for bev/dish.I was refering to real FTA where a larger dish/linear is required on most sats to get a good signal.Dish/Bev/GC is not FTA although some seem to think it is.
andyb

andyb to BigSensFan

Premium Member

to BigSensFan
said by BigSensFan:

What type of programming do they have on G10r?
10r was replaced by G18 recently
»www.lyngsat.com/galaxy18.html
Look at the ku band list

Another good sat is G25 at 97w (soon to be replaced by G19)
if you like internationals.
»www.lyngsat.com/galaxy25.html
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather to BigSensFan

Premium Member

to BigSensFan
said by BigSensFan:

What type of programming do they have on G10r?
andyb beat me to it but Galaxy 18 (nee G10R) carries a number of Retro Television Network channels, ABC from Wyoming and FOX from four different cities. In addition there are number of Spanish channels and a couple of learning ones.
As for Nagra 3, they said the same ting about Nagra 2
Well, the thing is someone at Kudelski leaked key components of Nagra 2 and the Korean coders worked their magic. That's the ONLY reason anyone can watch Dish Network or Bell TV at the moment using a $100 receiver with an RS232 port for firmware "upgrades".

I don't think the same mistake will be made again.

JayMan26
Whoot
Premium Member
join:2002-06-05
Earth

JayMan26 to mr weather

Premium Member

to mr weather
said by mr weather:

FTA is very much for real. However, the death sentence will come when Nagra 3 is fully implemented.

The kicker is (as Hydraglass pointed out) you can't rely on it as your primary programming source. ECM's are unpredictable and the last thing you want is for the bin to go down in the middle of something.

If you're looking for true FTA, G10R at 123w is by far the best.
the chatter is Nagra 3 is already cracked in Europe where it's already active.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

Premium Member

Interesting...

nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

nitzguy to mr weather

Premium Member

to mr weather
said by mr weather:

said by BigSensFan:

What type of programming do they have on G10r?
andyb beat me to it but Galaxy 18 (nee G10R) carries a number of Retro Television Network channels, ABC from Wyoming and FOX from four different cities. In addition there are number of Spanish channels and a couple of learning ones.
As for Nagra 3, they said the same ting about Nagra 2
Well, the thing is someone at Kudelski leaked key components of Nagra 2 and the Korean coders worked their magic. That's the ONLY reason anyone can watch Dish Network or Bell TV at the moment using a $100 receiver with an RS232 port for firmware "upgrades".

I don't think the same mistake will be made again.
Wait a minute...wasn't Nagra 2 supposed to fix the "hacks" from Nagra 1? ...I thought that the same mistake wasn't supposed to happen twice?

FusionGuy
join:2001-12-06

1 recommendation

FusionGuy to Mark Z

Member

to Mark Z
said by Mark Z:

Is it for real?
Is it theft?
Any Canadian content?
Will my Bell TV dish work with FTA?
If this is real, why isn't everyone doing it?

Very curious, seems to good to be true.
1. No it's not real. Don't listen to what anyone says.
2. The signals are being zapped into your backyard. You are just shoving them towards your tv. Make your own decision.
3. Sure.
4. Bigger is better.
5. Because it's not real.

Snickerdo3
Premium Member
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON

Snickerdo3 to JayMan26

Premium Member

to JayMan26
said by JayMan26:

the chatter is Nagra 3 is already cracked in Europe where it's already active.
Indeed, word on the street is that it has been for a while.

EveryName
Premium Member
join:2001-12-05
Montreal

2 recommendations

EveryName to Mark Z

Premium Member

to Mark Z
Is it for real? Absolutely. Satellite piracy has been around for decades. It started big with DirecTV. One of the big advantages was that Canadians could now watch some of their favorite American shows. ESPN, Comedy Central, HBO were top picks.

Is it theft? Yes and no. FTA stands for Free To Air. There are actually many satellites that you can point your dish too that are 100% free. Nothing illegal about that. Its kind of like Over the Air TV broadcasts.. except on a big scale with a satellite. You can also program your receiver (usually by putting the update on a USB thumbdrive, then sticking it into the receiver) to receive either Bell ExpressVU or DishNetwork. Those are the two main ones, but there are also others. StarChoice and DirecTV DO NOT WORK with FTA.

Any Canadian content? If you pointed it to Bell ExpressVU, you'd have tons of Canadian content.

Will my Bell TV dish work with FTA? Yes, it would work without a hitch. You'd just have to unplug your old receiver from the dish and plug in your new one. Very simple.

If this is real, why isn't everyone doing it? They are! In Montreal, Ottawa or Toronto, especially in the Arab, Chinese, or Spanish neighborhoods, you will see houses and apartments with up to 5-6 dishes. This is mostly due to the fact that Canadian TV doesn't have very much foreign content, and their only way of getting it is through FTA. Please note however that a lot of foreign content is available for free, so they are not necessarily stealing anything.
--------
Now, a few things you should know. It is not illegal to own the receiver, as it does have a legitimate purpose (FTA channels). But it is illegal once you reprogram your receiver to receive Pay-TV content (Bell, Dish, etc.)

FTA is massive in Canada, and your chances of getting caught are slim to none. There are even quite a few FTA stores that i've seen throughout Canada. I've seen some in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver. So its not illegal to have the box... just what you do with the box is illegal. Such as its not illegal to own a computer, but you could get into serious trouble if you used it for hacking.

Another thing that you should know, is that when using FTA to receive Pay-TV, the providers will be constantly finding new ways to shut it down. It may only be down for a day, but it could be down for much more than that. Its a cat and mouse game between the television providers and the people who write to code to circumvent the encryption of the satellite signal.

If you do plan on doing this, I strongly urge that you keep your existing subscription, not only as a backup when it does go down, but to continue supporting our Canadian Television economy.

If you have any other questions, feel free to IM me.
BobSagget
join:2005-06-23
Barrie, ON

1 edit

BobSagget to Mark Z

Member

to Mark Z
I know someone who has an IKS receiver. It connects to the internet and any time the box goes down due to an ECM, when the new file is available it auto downloads from the net. His box is like $450 though pff. he gets like 4 sats from 1 dish.

Mark Z
Premium Member
join:2002-10-14

Mark Z

Premium Member

You guys sure know your stuff! Some excellent answers, very much appreciated! Locked into Bell TV for another 6 months, doubt I would cancel but a serious downgrade is in order as I pay $80 a month after all fees and there still ain't nothing on
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather to BobSagget

Premium Member

to BobSagget
said by BobSagget:

I know someone who has an IKS receiver. It connects to the internet and any time the box goes down due to an ECM, when the new file is available it auto downloads from the net. His box is like $450 though pff. he gets like 4 sats from 1 dish.
Given the nature of the "hobby" I'd seriously reconsider having any receiver hooked to the internet with a traceable IP address.

Always gotta watch your back in this game.

Snickerdo3
Premium Member
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON

Snickerdo3 to BobSagget

Premium Member

to BobSagget
said by BobSagget:

I know someone who has an IKS receiver. It connects to the internet and any time the box goes down due to an ECM, when the new file is available it auto downloads from the net. His box is like $450 though pff. he gets like 4 sats from 1 dish.
I have an IKS receiver, it cost $190 including tax, I have those same benefits you talk about, and I four sats from two separate dishes.
Snickerdo3

Snickerdo3 to mr weather

Premium Member

to mr weather
said by mr weather:

Given the nature of the "hobby" I'd seriously reconsider having any receiver hooked to the internet with a traceable IP address.
That whole issue has been debated to death, and for the most part the general conclusion is that no one has anything to worry about in either the US or Canada.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

Premium Member

You never know.

That's why I also paid cash for my receivers.

Snickerdo3
Premium Member
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON

Snickerdo3

Premium Member

said by mr weather:

You never know.
In the grand scheme of things, we should all be more worried about downloading movies and MP3s - in Canada, this is a non-issue, so you see my point.
said by mr weather:

That's why I also paid cash for my receivers.
I paid cash for my Nfusion. No tax, either.