Reviews:
 ·Armstrong Zoom ..
| Misleading BULL What this does is enrage customers that do not understand how the internet actually gets to there home.
They see $14 per Mbps and say WTF am I paying so much for 1 Mbps?
What I challenge people to do is figure out a way to get a GIGe cable (fiber cable) from the point offering the GIGe bandwidth port to there home and then price it out.
Last time I looked it was around $30,000 per mile of fiber being strung in my area. That is fine. Myself I have to go about 80 miles via telephone pole way. So that is $2,400,000 or 2.4 Million dollars to run my own fiber line from the Gige POP to my home. That is only about $3,300 per month if I live 60 more years and get a 0% interest loan.
Now think of this. Customer support, servers/routers/ basically data centers. Last mile (am I doing fiber to the home?) costs.
If it is $14 per Mbps and you are paying $30 per month then I see a real razor thin line of profit for the company offering the broadband.
Do some math and come up with some business models, see what you get. Overselling, caps, throttling the abusers, and many other tactics are how selling sow cost broadband can be done. |
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 kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | said by keyboard5684:What this does is enrage customers that do not understand how the internet actually gets to there home. They see $14 per Mbps and say WTF am I paying so much for 1 Mbps? What I challenge people to do is figure out a way to get a GIGe cable (fiber cable) from the point offering the GIGe bandwidth port to there home and then price it out. Last time I looked it was around $30,000 per mile of fiber being strung in my area. That is fine. Myself I have to go about 80 miles via telephone pole way. So that is $2,400,000 or 2.4 Million dollars to run my own fiber line from the Gige POP to my home. That is only about $3,300 per month if I live 60 more years and get a 0% interest loan. Now think of this. Customer support, servers/routers/ basically data centers. Last mile (am I doing fiber to the home?) costs. If it is $14 per Mbps and you are paying $30 per month then I see a real razor thin line of profit for the company offering the broadband. Do some math and come up with some business models, see what you get. Overselling, caps, throttling the abusers, and many other tactics are how selling sow cost broadband can be done. What an utter load of BS.
ALL GREEDY CABLE COMPANIES OVERSUBSCRIBE CUSTOMERS BY 10x-15X TIMES at least.
The real numbers SHOW THAT ALL THESE CABLE COS MAKE 1000-1500% PROFIT ON EVERY BIT THEY DELIVER FOR YOU.
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[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE] |
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Clear Wireless
| said by kamm:The real numbers SHOW THAT ALL THESE CABLE COS MAKE 1000-1500% PROFIT ON EVERY BIT THEY DELIVER FOR YOU. Source please? |
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:5
 ·Fairpoint Commun..
 ·Hollis Hosting
| reply to keyboard5684
$20-30k per mile is reasonable estimate for aerial fiber outside cable plant. Cost is pretty much independent of number of fibers.
Typical cost of First-Mile fiber network is about 2X cost to build copper twisted pair telephone network and about 3X Cable HFC.
As you posted it is misleading to compare high cost of customer First-Mile fiber vs long distance backbone fiber. Backbone is pretty cheap by comparison. That is why there is no shortage of backbone capacity while First-Mile access network is still struggling.
/tom |
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Reviews:
·Armstrong Zoom ..
| Are you saying that I am underestimating or overestimating the costs of the long run?
We just did a long run (over 20 miles) and it was $30k per mile. Shorter runs sometimes are more, sometimes less, in my experience so I figured it averaged out.
Please clarify.
Thanks. |
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 RallyBah HumbugPremium
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to keyboard5684
said by keyboard5684:What this does is enrage customers that do not understand how the internet actually gets to there home. They see $14 per Mbps and say WTF am I paying so much for 1 Mbps? What I challenge people to do is figure out a way to get a GIGe cable (fiber cable) from the point offering the GIGe bandwidth port to there home and then price it out. Last time I looked it was around $30,000 per mile of fiber being strung in my area. That is fine. Myself I have to go about 80 miles via telephone pole way. So that is $2,400,000 or 2.4 Million dollars to run my own fiber line from the Gige POP to my home. That is only about $3,300 per month if I live 60 more years and get a 0% interest loan. Now think of this. Customer support, servers/routers/ basically data centers. Last mile (am I doing fiber to the home?) costs. If it is $14 per Mbps and you are paying $30 per month then I see a real razor thin line of profit for the company offering the broadband. Do some math and come up with some business models, see what you get. Overselling, caps, throttling the abusers, and many other tactics are how selling sow cost broadband can be done. Rural areas, are always going to have a hefty price tag with any sort of 'high data' speed connections. It doesnt matter if it's a resi or business line. Rural areas, without pre-existing services, you're going to pay a fortune.
Now for urban areas - your pricing is well off. |
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tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| reply to keyboard5684
said by keyboard5684:Are you saying that I am underestimating or overestimating the costs of the long run? Neither - cost you posted is about right. Part of the variable is how much owning utility charges in "make ready fees" to move existing cable, or install taller poles.
I would assume large jobs would reduce cost because crew gets more efficient.
/tom |
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jagged
join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL | reply to keyboard5684
What do you call almost $3 Billion in profit? Comcast's profit in February 2008 was $2.59 billion
»www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6532755.
As of July 2008 COmcast reported 7.5% increase in profit thanks to telephone and INTERNET additions.
$1.16 billion in free cash flow.
$8.55 billion in revenue
$109.66 average revenue per customer, up 8.6%
»www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=···fer=home
yeah they are hurting and nearly broke |
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 imrfPremium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI | reply to kamm
Re: Misleading BULL You do realize that your precious telcos do the same exact thing, right?  |
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 morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | generalize his statement.
providers are doing well without any caps. |
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Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
3 edits | reply to espaeth
said by espaeth:said by kamm:The real numbers SHOW THAT ALL THESE CABLE COS MAKE 1000-1500% PROFIT ON EVERY BIT THEY DELIVER FOR YOU. Source please? I believe he is referring to Cogent who had a news blog that was linked here some time ago. It stated 1500%, while inferring others had a take of up to 10,000%. It has since been changed and all referenced to bandwidth prices removed probably after they became universally despised for being a "bargin basement" operation, eventually leading to other backbone companies de-peering with them. Its actually an interesting read.
these peering arrangments are what profit margins are based upon, and they are usually kept secretive. So I invite you once again to find a source that says otherwise.
This was probably 1-2 years ago. I doubt the take is still as high, and also I doubt last mile providers make anywhere near that much. |
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| reply to keyboard5684
I think one of our carriers spend about $75k to extend their ring to us. That extension was about 1.5 miles and did not include the DMXtend and all of it's DS1/DS3/FE cards. |
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espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
1 edit | reply to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:I believe he is referring to Cogent who had a news blog that was linked here some time ago. It stated 1500%, while inferring others had a take of up to 10,000%. I'm pretty sure you're referring to Karl's remarks in stories like these regarding TWC's $1-2/GB overage charges:
»Verizon, Industry Comment On Time Warner Cable Plans
»Time Warner Cable CEO: Metered Broadband The Future
said by DataRiker:It has since been changed and all referenced to bandwidth prices removed probably after they became universally despised for being a "bargin basement" operation, eventually leading to other backbone companies de-peering with them. Its actually an interesting read. these peering arrangments are what profit margins are based upon, and they are usually kept secretive. So I invite you once again to find a source that says otherwise. You mean a source like their financial statements?
»www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/r···l=COGT.O
Gross profit margin = (revenue from selling a good or service) - (direct costs ignoring overhead to provide good or service) / (revenue)
If the margins on bandwidth were 15,000% as you suggest, it would have to show up in the gross profit margin. Cogent operates between 55 and 65% gross profit margin. |
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 tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to jagged
Re: What do you call almost $3 Billion in profit? You missed a very important number RoE (Return on Equity) is only 6.15 and 3.11 for the 5 year, very low for that industry and a third the S&P 500 average.
so while it is increasing, it still puts comcast in low profit end of the market (at least until the last couple weeks)
The idea that because the have a high cash flow, they are making a huge profit is false. |
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Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | reply to espaeth
Re: Misleading BULL Profit margins on Bandwidth would not have a direct correlation to gross profits, since all companies referred to here also offer tailored services, have sister companies, have revolving debt (I'm guessing, since debt is usually hidden now - hence the economic state we are in now), and are invested in other companies, all of which affect the bottom line.
Again, I am not an industry insider, and I can offer no proof, but a gross profit margin is not a counterexample. |
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