| | Re: Idiots... Right, let's make it so that companies can ACTIVELY impede their competition. For someone who sounds like a free market cheerleader, you seem awfully quick to side on those would do things that are anti-competitive.
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. | |
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 | | Re: Idiots... How is that anti-competitive? Burger King can do the same thing if they wanted too. | |
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 | | | Re: Idiots... said by bufbandit:How is that anti-competitive? Burger King can do the same thing if they wanted too. Please how anything Burger King can legally do is anything remotely like preventing people from using devices they legally purchased?
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. | |
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| | | | Re: Idiots... I purchased a bluetooth device 2 years ago for my pc. I have upgraded to Vista. The device does not work now and the company will not supply drivers for Vista. Sure I am upset. But I understand that technology advances and sometimes older technology wont work with new technology. Im not going to throw a big hissy fit about. Ill simply get something thats compatible. End of story. Lets just keep old tech out there. if we did this, wed still be using crank phones. | |
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1 edit | Re: Idiots... said by bufbandit:I purchased a bluetooth device 2 years ago for my pc. I have upgraded to Vista. The device does not work now and the company will not supply drivers for Vista. Sure I am upset. But I understand that technology advances and sometimes older technology wont work with new technology. Im not going to throw a big hissy fit about. Ill simply get something thats compatible. End of story. Lets just keep old tech out there. if we did this, wed still be using crank phones. That is not even CLOSE to what happened here.
What happened here is that two cable operators started making changes over to SDV before it was fully tested with the cablecards that were issued by both operators to work with SDV. If the cable company is handing out cablecards to their subscribers for the subscribers' televisions or Tivos, the customers have every right to expect them to work.
As for liken "cablecards" to old technology or to liken this news item to your BT headset experience is to miss the issue entirely.
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. | |
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1 edit | Re: Idiots... So TWC has the tech avail. TWC should wait 9 years for cablelabs to come up with a 2-way cablecard. By then another technology will be out. So I shoudl wait 9 years to upgrade to Vista? By then there will be 2 new OS's out. | |
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1 edit | Re: Idiots... CableCards are all two way capable and have been since day one. The issue with two way has always been about the host device capabilities, NOT the cablecard. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Idiots... Exactly, so the FCC should be fining Tivo not TWC. | |
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| | | | | | |  davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC
 ·Comporium
| Re: Idiots... TiVo would have made a 2-way box a long time ago if the CableCos would have given then access to do so. But the CableCos insisted that customers had to use their interface, their parameters and pay them money to do so. TiVo thus couldn't do it because the whole reason for a competitive product is to give the customer a better interface.
What should have come w/ the cable card legislation was legislation requiring a single nationwide standard for all 2-way cable services, including VOD, so 3rd party developers could create their own hardware and interfaces to display that content. | |
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| | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Idiots... The technology is moving fast.. cable wants to move fast, clearly as you're seeing here as they have to now take on the battle of phone.. yet, Tivo wants to move at their own pace.
Personally, I'm still for cable using their own interface.. it's their cable plant. The fact the government is getting involved in the business to this level pisses me off. If there is a need for this luxury service to be open, or a demand for that matter, then open up the franchises to others and let them come in and swoop up the customers on their open platform.
I won't take ANY of this serious until they do the same with ALL video providers.. Satellite, Fios, U-Verse, etc! Until then, what I'm seeing from the FCC is an over stepping of their alleged authority into a private industry.
And so you know, Tivo isn't in the business to give a consumer anything better.. they're in it for their own personal profits. Tivo is a bottom feeding company that can't survive with out another business being forced to bow to them. Tivo could have EASILY partnered with the company and resold their software to the companies direct like they are just now doing. But, they didn't, they wanted ALL the money to themselves and then went after congress to get the foot in someone elses door. Don't believe me? What happened with DirecTv gave Tivo the boot? It was about the end of Tivo which is why they started to give their hardware away and then started the cable tv deal. Now, they're relevant again.
Further - if it's not about "Tivo" then why can't I use their box, THAT I OWN, with out paying a monthly fee for a guide I really don't need. What Tivo and the DVR did was invalidate the VCR. I want a digital recorder where I can simply set a start and stop time, and channel and tell it to record or simply time shift live TV. Can't do that.. and, since they hold the VCR killing patent, tell me why congress or the FCC hasn't gone after Tivo to do away with the monthly fee and see them as dummy boxes with a subscription option.
So.. STOP GIVING TIVO ANY TEARS OR FREE PASSES! | |
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| | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
 ·Cox HSI
 ·T-Mobile US
| said by magnushsi:CableCards are all two way capable and have been since day one. The issue with two way has always been about the host device capabilities, NOT the cablecard. The anticompetitive part is that the CableLabs rules don't allow third party boxes to have their own interface and be two way. If TiVo (as an example), tried to submit such a thing, it wouldn't be approved, so they couldn't sell it.
The only two way boxes allowed are OCAP (err..tru2way) boxes. Supposedly TiVo is optimistic they'll be able to get a dual-mode box approved that runs the cable operator's OCAP interface in one mode and the TiVo software in another, but it hasn't happened as of yet.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  | |
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| | | | |  DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | They should follow the rules laid down by the FCC. If they don't like the rules, they are free to get out of the business. There are plenty of gov't rules I'd like to not have to follow in my business, but I also have the choice of take it or leave it. | |
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| | | | | | So again, your basically saying the cable company's should wait to roll out a new technology that will improve service for 95 percent of their customers? That makes alot of sense. Obviously you dont know how to run a business. | |
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| | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
4 edits | Re: Idiots... Yep. They shouldn't be able to abuse their market position by rolling out so-called "technology" that breaks competing products in violation of FCC rules.
Wahhhhh, we're not allowed to break our competitors devices, wahhhhhhhh.
This technology doesn't "improve" the service for 95% of anyone.
You obviously don't know how to run a business that follows gov't regulations. You would prefer the Exxon-Microsoft model of abuse of market position to put customers over a barrel and gouge them at every turn. Unlike you, I actually do run a business and unlike Time Warner, I follow gov't regulations.
The FCC fines should have been $100M or at least a year's margin from these rule violating franchises and teach these companies a lesson that rule breaking will not be tolerated. TWC knew what the rules are and broke them anyway. I certainly wouldn't get such a wrist slap if I broke regulations that govern my business. | |
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| | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: Idiots... said by Dogfather:Yep. They shouldn't be able to abuse their market position by rolling out so-called "technology" that breaks competing products in violation of FCC rules. Wahhhhh, we're not allowed to break our competitors devices, wahhhhhhhh. So.. do you think that Tivo should be able to force a consumer, who purchases the Tivo hardware, to buy a monthly subscription to use it? That Tivo box, itself, has killed the DVR. Yet, Tivo holds many patents, and sues over it too, in order to kill competition in the market.
Shame on you..
I can't wait, for once, for a consumer group to go after Tivo tooth and nail!
Tivo isn't innocent either and needs to stop whining every time their poor little always-on-the-verge of being pushed out of the market business is being threatened. Talk about a monopoly!
You have an anger issue if you think the fines should have been 100M anyway.. you're just as bad as Tivo, the FCC for fining TWC FOR the franchise, and TWC for simply not following a rule - which was disclosure.. (again, not that they were banned from making the chance, they simply didn't make disclosure TO THE FRANCHISE) The next time you don't follow a rule in your "business" then I thin you should be fined out of existence too. That's just silly because you're an angry person.. get real. | |
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1 edit | said by bufbandit:So again, your basically saying the cable company's should wait to roll out a new technology that will improve service for 95 percent of their customers? That makes alot of sense. Obviously you dont know how to run a business. 95% of customers will not see any difference after SDV for awhile for starters. The benefits of switching to SDV right now are still a little ways off. You would know this if you had any idea what you were talking about, but it appears that you don't.
Secondly, TWC is handing out cards that don't work with SDV, ergo this is TWC's fault.
Thirly, I apparently know a lot more about running a business than you apparently do because I'm not dumb enough to think that pissing off paying customers is a good idea.
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. | |
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| ccbadd
join:2005-07-03
Corpus Christi, TX | said by bufbandit:How is that anti-competitive? Burger King can do the same thing if they wanted too. Most cable companies have a virtual monopoly. Luckily I have two providers so there is real competition. There is no Burger King to go against there McDees. In this case, your arguments have no basis. | |
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| | | | Re: Idiots... Virtual monopoly? That makes no sense. Direct TV, FIOS, Dish networks all seem like legit competition to TWC. Not sure what you mean by a virtual monopoly is. | |
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| | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Idiots... This isn't about a video monopoly, this is about hardware and cable operators abusing their market position to fleece customers with horrid overpriced hardware rentals. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Idiots... My buddy bought a direct TV DVR for $300. If it breaks he needs to pay for a new one. If he terms the service he needs to give the box back. That sounds like a steal. Buy a box and have to give it back or pay to have it replaced. Who is ripping who off? | |
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| | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Idiots... Yeah, and you're buddy doesn't have to fork over $200/yr for each shitty DVR either. I pay for DirecTV's inside maintenance plan, they warrant ALL equipment and I still save $20/mo on the two two-tuner MPEG4 HD DVR's that I have. Plus I get 130 HD channels, VOD and superior service. Meanwhile if I had an inside wiring problem with TWC or Verizon, I get slammed big bucks for the truck roll. | |
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1 edit | Re: Idiots... Wow $200 a year for a shitty DVR. The lease fees are usually $5-$7 a month. I guess your math skills are not that sharp. Last I checked TWC does not charge for truck rolls. Verizon does but TWC does not. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Idiots... I have to pay 19 for each DVR with Cox cable, that's 228 - maybe you need to open your MIND before opening your MOUTH. | |
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1 edit | Re: Idiots... Im speaking about TWC not Cox. Cant speak for a company I have not dealt with directly, sorry. You can always buy a $10 VCR. Lots of other options out there. | |
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| | | | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
2 edits | DVR lease fee doesn't include the DVR service which is another $10 for a total of $16/mo X 12 months. When I had TWC before DirecTV I paid $6.95 per box for rental plus $10 PER BOX in DVR "service" fees. Each DVR was $17/mo total with TWC and if an issue wasn't an outside problem TWC did charge for truck rolls.
It looks like you are the one needing a math refresher. | |
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| | | | | | | Cogdis
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY
1 edit | said by bufbandit:Wow $200 a year for a shitty DVR. The lease fees are usually $5-$7 a month. I guess your math skills are not that sharp. Last I checked TWC does not charge for truck rolls. Verizon does but TWC does not. Actually Time Warner in my area (Queens, NY)charges
$7.10 for ANY box rental
$9.95 for DVR service (on top of the $7.10)
$2.99 for service duplication (for each additional box)
$0.25 for the remote control
So for one year the DVR costs $243.48
They also DO charge $30.30 for a truck roll. They will allow you to pick a box up at a store for free, but WON'T allow you to pick up a cable card, that requires the $30 truck roll. | |
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| | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Idiots... Let's also continue the math.
Tivo - $300 - $600 to purchase the box (HD BOX)
Tivo - Service:
Monthly - $12.95
Annual - $129.00 (10.75 mo)
3 Year - $299.00 (8.31 mo)
So, the price range of a Tivo box for one year service:
$62.95 per month (Most expensive options on the high range)
(aka - $755.39 for the first year)
$35.75 per month (Least expensive options on the low range)
(aka - $429.00 for the first year)
This is I guess what you pay for that alleged "premium, non-shitty" DVR service.
I could care less about a guide. Most foremost, I want to call up a show and make it play. When the show is recorded and the show is playing, the guide means nothing to me.
The question that most people ask themselves is usually "how much to watch a show I've recorded".. and the answer shouldn't be anything more than the cost of the DVR itself. Companies like Microsoft have already proven that guide data is not expensive... in fact, it's free. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Cogdis
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY | Re: Idiots... Tivo also has an unpublished Lifetime subscription available to different people for different prices. My second lifetime subscription was just $200 (on top of the $300 I had to pay for the Tivo HD). So with TWC I come out ahead after 2 years. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Idiots... You're correct. I purposely left out the lifetime subscription for my math however, even knowing it would make my numbers higher. I left it out because I wanted to to compare just 12 months of service in this case. | |
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| | | | | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Idiots... said by fiberguy:You're correct. I purposely left out the lifetime subscription for my math however, even knowing it would make my numbers higher. I left it out because I wanted to to compare just 12 months of service in this case. Oh, so you admit to being disingenuous and only amortizing the purchase price of the box over 1 year? Wow.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: Idiots... Um... isn't the conversation about 1 year of service?
If you'd rather, I'd be more than happy to go off topic like 90% of BBR users here and go off on a tangent that means nothing.. I could certainly continue talking about the ongoing fees of Tivo service, combined with the hardware and I bet about 4 years down the road, probably the life of the hardware, it's really still the same price.
Really.. try harder next time. 
If you'd like me to put words in YOUR mouth incorrectly, what you're really saying is that you're a poster child of Bush's no child left behind policy... and how it doesn't work. | |
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| | | | | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | Re: Idiots... said by fiberguy:Um... isn't the conversation about 1 year of service? It became that when you decided one year was an appropriate amortization period for hardware that usually lasts 3 or more years. I called you out on it.
As far as the initial purchase price, one can get TiVo HD refurbs for $99 from time to time. (they are $179 at the moment, though) You can get brand new ones for $199.
Thankfully, NCLB was long after I was out of school.
Edited to add: And FWIW, a refurb TiVo is actually a pretty good comparison to what you get from the cable company, since you often, or even usually, get a box somebody else had before.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Idiots... If you will kindly look up in the the OPs were all talking about a 1 year cost of a box.. I joined into that, so I can certainly see how I decided to one year was appropriate. So, to return the favor, I'm going to call YOU on the fact that not one, but twice you've been corrected.
Also, the box you're talking about now is not even a cable card box which isn't a valid comparison to the conversation.
If you're going to start throwing out daggers and bring up comparisons, can you at least bring up some that are valid?
The MAIN topic is about cable card Tivo services that are being knocked off. This sub thread is about a Tivo, on topic, and one year of a service with a cable provider.
Your non-cable card Tivo comparison, used even, is stretching a point way too far that it's broken so bad it can't be repaired.
Try looking up a Tivo Series 3.. and "time to time" in any valid comparison, for any comparison, is NOT a VALID COMPARISON. As a deal hunter, sure.. but when you are comparing two items you take the average. Finding a refurbish from time to time is not average. I could go further and say that I can probably buy a cheap used on on ebay from time to time where no one else saw it and use that as a comparison - because I've actually done that before.
You can reply if you want, but I'm done on this one. | |
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| | | | | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Idiots... said by fiberguy:Also, the box you're talking about now is not even a cable card box which isn't a valid comparison to the conversation. If you're going to start throwing out daggers and bring up comparisons, can you at least bring up some that are valid? The MAIN topic is about cable card Tivo services that are being knocked off. This sub thread is about a Tivo, on topic, and one year of a service with a cable provider. I'm talking about CableCARD boxes. What part of that don't you get. Right now, a refurb is available for $179.99. They are sometimes available for $99.99. TiVo always has refurbs available, the only question is at what price they feel like selling it. Brand new, they are available for as low as $199.99, depending on the retailer. That's certainly a valid comparison. It doesn't depend on an eBay deal or anything else, just ordering online.
Looking at the entirety of this thread, I fail to see where anybody but you mentioned 1 year, perhaps you can point me to the specific post. (I have been known to have situational blindness on occasion)
A THD is every bit as valid a comparison as an S3. They're essentially the same box. I know, I have both. I bought an S3 about 19 months ago when my apartment complex switched from DirecTV (which I was using a DirecTiVo with) to cable. I tried the Cox box for a month. It dropped too many recordings and incessantly recorded repeats even when told not to, so I bought something better (for $650).
Around Christmas, when Circuit City had the THD on sale for $249.99, I picked up one of those for the bedroom. They both use CableCARDs. I have no idea where you got the idea I wasn't talking about CableCARD-using TiVos. You seem to have made that up.
That's one of the nice things about not buying the cable company's box. Competition between retailers gets the consumer a lower price on the hardware. If only replay hadn't been run out of business, TiVo might have found the r&d dollars to further reduce the manufacturing cost of their box.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| | | | | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| said by fiberguy:Let's also continue the math. Tivo - $300 - $600 to purchase the box (HD BOX) Tivo - Service: Monthly - $12.95 Annual - $129.00 (10.75 mo) 3 Year - $299.00 (8.31 mo) So, the price range of a Tivo box for one year service: $62.95 per month (Most expensive options on the high range) (aka - $755.39 for the first year) $35.75 per month (Least expensive options on the low range) (aka - $429.00 for the first year) This is I guess what you pay for that alleged "premium, non-shitty" DVR service. I could care less about a guide. Most foremost, I want to call up a show and make it play. When the show is recorded and the show is playing, the guide means nothing to me. The question that most people ask themselves is usually "how much to watch a show I've recorded".. and the answer shouldn't be anything more than the cost of the DVR itself. Companies like Microsoft have already proven that guide data is not expensive... in fact, it's free. Or you could buy a refurb for $99 (or a new one for $199) and pay $400 for lifetime service and never pay another dime. (at least for a few years until the box breaks)
You could at least get the pricing right if you're going to attempt to say TiVo is more expensive than a cable company box.
Like most things that don't come from a cable company, you have the option of buying it from the manufacturer and paying too much or buying it from someone who sells it for a reasonable price and paying less. It's called competition. Isn't it grand?
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Idiots... Since the DVR in question is an HD version, not SD, I'll ignore the price of the SD version of Tivo.
Also, if you want to talk about the Tivo lasting a "few years" then anyone that understands math and LTCO would take the life time of the box fee of $400 divided by the life of the box to get the monthly, the cost of the box itself, divide by total months you have it and there is your monthly fee.
I'm pretty confident in my pricing since I just looked it up on the Tivo site to get my numbers.. Or, does that not meet your needs? I really doubt it does because you're sitting here comparing a completely non-comparable box to make your numbers look better.
Isn't honesty and reality in facts fun? | |
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| | | | | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | Re: Idiots... said by fiberguy:Since the DVR in question is an HD version, not SD, I'll ignore the price of the SD version of Tivo. Also, if you want to talk about the Tivo lasting a "few years" then anyone that understands math and LTCO would take the life time of the box fee of $400 divided by the life of the box to get the monthly, the cost of the box itself, divide by total months you have it and there is your monthly fee. I'm pretty confident in my pricing since I just looked it up on the Tivo site to get my numbers.. Or, does that not meet your needs? I really doubt it does because you're sitting here comparing a completely non-comparable box to make your numbers look better. Isn't honesty and reality in facts fun? Yes, you can get THD refurbs for $99.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| | | | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
2 edits | Re: Idiots... Try $179.99! And the DVR has to accept a cable card to be a valid argument here.. I guess that doesn't matter to you.
»www3.tivo.com/store/webspecials.do
When comparing prices, I'm not going to go digging through bargain basements for the absolute best prices.. I'm talking about tivo. | |
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| | | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| said by bufbandit:Wow $200 a year for a shitty DVR. The lease fees are usually $5-$7 a month. I guess your math skills are not that sharp. Last I checked TWC does not charge for truck rolls. Verizon does but TWC does not. You forgot the "DVR fee," champ.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by Dogfather:This isn't about a video monopoly, this is about hardware and cable operators abusing their market position to fleece customers with horrid overpriced hardware rentals. ... all while Tivo fleece customers with horrid over priced guide subscription fees to which they also sell their ads.
Are you kidding me?
This can be, and should be, just as much about Tivo and their strangle hold on people for the DVR anyway. | |
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| | |  mech1164I'll Be Back
join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by bufbandit:Virtual monopoly? That makes no sense. Direct TV, FIOS, Dish networks all seem like legit competition to TWC. Not sure what you mean by a virtual monopoly is. I well I'm one without a choice. I'm stuck with cablevision. Fios is available but not in my development. There are no apt installs yet or planned for in the next few years. Dish or Dtv is forbidden on the development. And before you all start qouting regulations we do not have any place to attach a dish. So for the foreseeable future I'm at the mercy of CV. | |
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