jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL
2 edits | [Speed] CC Throttles my 8meg to 5meg-Powercycle Resolves It Yeah, I know they came out all the throttling stuff, the caps etc. Since this, seems that I don't get my 8meg sustained speed anymore. I download from newsgroups (not comcast's) and before could get 8 meg sustained could also get good 8meg VPN speeds downloading files from work also.
Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It isn't my news provider, I got a second one to verify that.
It is CrapCasts traffic shaping software. My guess is that my Avg speed is about 6megs. Then why in the hell am I paying these guys for 8megs since I can't get that sustained speed anymore?!!!
Anybody else in FL or else where seeing these huge speed swings on large file transfers of 300-700 megs?
Again, it isn't my news provider. Have tested with two providers, one being GigaNews, 2 or 3 ftp sites.
Any body with 6meg getting something similar to this when you max-out your 6meg link with a 300meg file
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 JohkalCool CatPremium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
kudos:5
 ·Comcast
 ·Comcast Digital ..
| Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg If you would like others to help diagnose this issue, please start here: »Comcast High Speed Internet FAQ »How To Get Help!
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AVonGaussPremium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | reply to jdmatl
I am a little bit north of you and haven't seen it myself, but I haven't done any large sustained transfers recently. It could be the traffic management system, but I think we would need more details to be able to determine if that is the case. There are two primary factors that control whether or not the network management system kicks in, your consumption and the level of usage on your line. Both have to be past certain thresholds for the system to kick in at all. |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
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| reply to jdmatl
Throttling won't be so bad if Comcast doubles our speeds in the near future. Personally I don't mind throttling for large downloads or uploads.
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JohkalCool CatPremium,MVM
join:2002-11-13
Happy Valley
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| said by pandora:Throttling won't be so bad if Comcast doubles our speeds in the near future. Personally I don't mind throttling for large downloads or uploads. That's fine and dandy, but do you have any ideas to help the OP? 
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
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| said by Johkal:That's fine and dandy, but do you have any ideas to help the OP? Comcast is supposed to be phasing throttling in over the next few months. I'd call and see if that is the situation, if not, then there is another problem. If throttling is in place, it must be lived with.
Will business traffic be throttled, if not, moving to a business account is a possibility.
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5
1 edit | reply to jdmatl
Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It isn't my news provider, I got a second one to verify that. That's not throttling. If you're seeing swings down AND THEN UP of your speeds during the same transfer, then this is more indicative of normal congestion backoff. This is part of the Internet's normal design. It will quickly drop speed to about half and then slowly work its way back up -- trying to find a rate that is fast but doesn't trip congestion.
The new bandwidth stuff is in East Orange and Lake City, FL -- 150-300 miles from you -- in Comcast's test markets. The new system shouldn't be installed in your area for 5-10 more weeks.
You are illustrating something that I predicted, though -- the new "Gestapo" regime will be blamed for everything, whether it actually is involved or not. Since users won't be notified whether or not they're being managed, then it'll be the thing that users and tech support people will never be able to rule out as a cause. (The only reason we can rule it out now is because it's not installed, yet.)
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jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL
1 edit | said by funchords:Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It isn't my news provider, I got a second one to verify that. That's not throttling. If you're seeing swings down AND THEN UP of your speeds during the same transfer, then this is more indicative of normal congestion backoff. This is part of the Internet's normal design. It will quickly drop speed to about half and then slowly work its way back up -- trying to find a rate that is fast but doesn't trip congestion. The new bandwidth stuff is in East Orange and Lake City, FL -- 150-300 miles from you -- in Comcast's test markets. The new system shouldn't be installed in your area for 5-10 more weeks. You are illustrating something that I predicted, though -- the new "Gestapo" regime will be blamed for everything, whether it actually is involved or not. Since users won't be notified whether or not they're being managed, then it'll be the thing that users and tech support people will never be able to rule out as a cause. (The only reason we can rule it out now is because it's not installed, yet.) Agreed about normal congestion backoff. This isn't that normal type of back off. I would say it is a possibility that it is already here. Unless you work for Comcast, then nobody knows the speed they rolling it out. I don't believe they will come out and publicly announce their roll-out schedule so everyone will know. Aren't test markets there to "test" the technology then seamless as possible, and as invisible as possible, push it out over your entire network?
After the announcement came out about the caps and the new throttling policy my speed issues didn't start over night. Never had any issues with sustained speed until last weekend and it has continued since then.
The methodology to be used about dropping sustained downloads mentioned here:
»New Comcast Throttling System = 'A Really Good DSL Experience'
is exactly what I am seeing.
Also this
»Comcast, Cox, Trot Out Their Worst 'Bandwidth Hogs'
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"Comcast’s plan is to identify the 2% or 3% of customers who over the last hour or two have consumed more than 50% of the capacity on the network, Werner said. Those heavy users are then given lower priority and will have their bandwidth limited for a temporary period of time. However, Werner said, "even those who go to that lower state will be above DSL. So it’s not terrible.""
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DSL-like speed is what I am seeing. If my people on my network loop usage is very light 20 megs/hr, and I am pulling down a couple of 300 & 200meg files, then I would be a prime target according the article
At times, late at night, I can keep my 8megs sustained, ftp, nntp, to various sites, not problem.
My whole point is that *if* this is the new throttling technology, I am not impressed by it one bit and if anything it appears to be worse than DSL. |
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AVonGaussPremium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | reply to funchords
Not having ever seen it in action myself I can't be absolutely certain, but I do believe you would see ups and downs with your transfer rate - in some cases dramatic shifts in your transfer rate. The reason for the downs and ups would be is your traffic is re-prioritized, not throttled, so consequently your effective rate will depend on how others are using their connection and available bandwidth on your port. A re-prioritized user would see their transfer rate go down when others are using their connection and would then see their rate go back up as others stop using their connection.
As you said, you don't know when you get re-prioritized so it is a little bit difficult to say whether it is normal bounciness or you have been re-prioritized. As the other factor is the line saturation, I would recommend the OP try the transfers at different times of the day to see if there is a difference. If it seems to be happening constantly, then I would look else where for an explanation. |
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jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL
1 edit | reply to AVonGauss
said by AVonGauss:I am a little bit north of you and haven't seen it myself, but I haven't done any large sustained transfers recently. It could be the traffic management system, but I think we would need more details to be able to determine if that is the case. There are two primary factors that control whether or not the network management system kicks in, your consumption and the level of usage on your line. Both have to be past certain thresholds for the system to kick in at all. I am thinking it might be usage on my line is higher than others, so it might be kicking in. As stated in another message "officially" it shouldn't be in my area for 5-10 weeks.
It isn't like my speeds fall down to 1.5megs and stay there. But past two weeks during various times I see the exact same speed variance every time I am downloading a 400meg file via either powerusenet (giganews reseller) or Newshosting.
These are two different news providers. NewsHosting is not a gignews reseller.
That is too much a coincidence for me. Throw in FTP to several different sites that follow that same throttle/speed variances. Sometimes if it quacks like a duck, it is a duck!  |
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AVonGaussPremium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | reply to jdmatl
If you want to see what the system entails and haven't already read them, there is a FAQ and a bit more technical detail posted at »www.comcast.net/terms/network/.
We don't have a lot of experience with this system, so personally I know it is hard to say if what you are experiencing is a result of the Fair Share system. One test that I can think of that might give you an idea is:
When you are experiencing low transfer rates, such as the 3 MB, stop all of your Internet activity. Wait a half hour, start back up the same transfers. If you have full speed at that point it is suspicious, but not a firm indicator. Doing this test multiple times would give you a better idea if it is the management system. The theory of this test being there are two factors, your line saturation and your actual usage. If you remove your usage, wait a safe period to make sure your priority is reset, you should no longer be experiencing lower priority transfers. Again, once you start back up the transfer and a decent amount of time has passed, you may get re-prioritized again. |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5
4 edits | reply to AVonGauss
Comcast's Scavenge for Bandwidth Class said by AVonGauss:Not having ever seen it in action myself I can't be absolutely certain, but I do believe you would see ups and downs with your transfer rate - in some cases dramatic shifts in your transfer rate. Right. The new "Fair Share" system is not "Throttling," either. It's "Scavenging" for left-overs.
Throttling would mean that your maximum rate is reduced to a particular point and won't ever exceed that while throttled, even if the bandwidth is available. But with throttling, you do -- at the very least -- compete for bandwidth among everyone who needs it.
Once you've made your way into Comcast's "Scavenging" subscriber list, you are entitled to no bandwidth. However, if there is any bandwidth left over, then you may use it up to your subscription.
It's like flying "Stand by," except that you must pay for the full-fare ticket whether or not you ever get a seat on the plane.
Sound bad? It get's worse! If there is enough bandwidth left over that you actually get to use more than half of subscribed speed, you will remain a "Scavenger" until either you've given up on whatever you were doing or Comcast's extra-degraded network conditions grow so bad that you can't reach 50% of your subscription rate during a 15 minute period.
While I have yet to test this, it sure sounds like a recipe for the kinds of packet losses that will result in a crappy streaming video experience and terrible-quality VOIP calls.
However, Comcast has received 0 (zero, nada, zilch, none) complaints about their new scheme. This is interpreted as customer acceptance and they're pretty glad that you like it, because they're rolling it out nationwide.
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 EGThe wings of lovePremium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:9
2 edits | Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg said by funchords: and terrible-quality VOIP calls. Just for clarity's sake, one shouldn't confuse third party provider VoIP calls with CC's in house CDV service.
This is not to say that you are confusing them Robb
[Edited for spelling] |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5
1 edit | said by EG:said by funchords: and terrible-quality VOIP calls. Just for clarity's sake, one should't confuse third party provider VoIP calls with CC's in house CDV service. Yeah -- that's just gravy, isn't it? Comcast Digital Voice VOIP subscribers add to the congestion just like VoiceStick, Vonage, or Skype subscribers add to the congestion -- yet only Comcast Digital Voice VOIP packets have a guaranteed seat on a lifeboat on the RMS Comcast. The other VOIP packets can have a seat too -- a standby seat -- "ooohh, fresh out of lifeboats."
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AVonGaussPremium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL | reply to funchords
Re: Comcast's Scavenge for Bandwidth Class That seems like an interesting interpretation of the system, scavenging, but I do understand where you are coming from. As I remember they mention that a re-prioritized user will still get seats on the bus, so maybe that is a good question for them. Just how many seats will that user get and is there a specific minimum number of seats that the user can expect to get. |
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EGThe wings of lovePremium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:9 | reply to funchords
Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg said by funchords:Comcast Digital Voice VOIP subscribers add to the congestion Well maybe only to the local point of egress to a local telco switch. But their CRAN is 10 GigE. And VoIP traffic bandwidth consumption is rather small anyway. |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to jdmatl
said by jdmatl:Agreed about normal congestion backoff. This isn't that normal type of back off. I would say it is a possibility that it is already here. Unless you work for Comcast, then nobody knows the speed they rolling it out. I don't believe they will come out and publicly announce their roll-out schedule so everyone will know. They kinda did (they disclosed an implementation plan to the FCC), but having read them, they do not rule out the possibility of your being right about Comcast's early deployment in other areas.
You should definitely read these documents and understand them. If you really think that you're being affected, call Comcast support and find out. PLEASE REPORT BACK as to what they say or don't say.
Thanks
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to AVonGauss
Re: Comcast's Scavenge for Bandwidth Class said by AVonGauss:That seems like an interesting interpretation of the system, scavenging, but I do understand where you are coming from. As I remember they mention that a re-prioritized user will still get seats on the bus, so maybe that is a good question for them. Just how many seats will that user get and is there a specific minimum number of seats that the user can expect to get. "Scavenger" is not my word. It's the name of this "less-than-best-effort class" (also not my words) of inexpensive delay-tolerant traffic (such as system updates and incremental backups) proposed for Internet2.
The problem is that it was never debated for Internet1 nor for general use ("best-effort") traffic.
»www.google.com/search?q=less-tha···cavenger
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5
1 edit | reply to EG
Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg said by EG:said by funchords:Comcast Digital Voice VOIP subscribers add to the congestion Well maybe only to the local point of egress to a local telco switch. But their CRAN is 10 GigE. And VoIP traffic bandwidth consumption is rather small anyway. Exactly, but only Comcast's VOIP is exempt.
Comcast Digital Voice (CDV) customers use heavy-bandwdith apps, also. Their heavy bandwidth usage has no effect on their calls. The same heavy bandwidth usage by VoiceStick, Vonage, or Skype users will result in dropped packets which will probably degrade or destroy their VOIP calls. (Again, I can't test it until it's here, but it's clear that streaming video and voice can't hold up to long series of dropped packets.)
Since CDV does add to DOCSIS port utilization (where packets get admitted) and to router congestion (where packets get dropped), a CDV customer's VOIP usage actually results in further degrading the service of VoiceStick, Vonage, or Skype customers.
This problem is easily fixed -- just end the exemption. Comcast should not need to prioritize CDV at all if it manages its bandwidth inventory well. You mentioned it yourself -- the connection to the PSTN is very close. Even if CDV is not exempt from the Scavenger treatment, it still ought to outperform its competitors with more distant interconnects. How many non-competitive advantages does Comcast need?
Comcast just needs to keep up with bandwidth demand, treat all traffic equally, disclose what it's doing and what it's selling, temporarily stop selling more subscriptions when they need to upgrade, keep their tiers within reason even if FIOS and DSL are competing, and etc.. You know, the kinds of things it always ought to have done!
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| reply to jdmatl
said by jdmatl:Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It is CrapCasts traffic shaping software. »catb.org/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html
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