Topic '[Speed] CC Throttles my 8meg to 5meg-Powercycle Resolves It' in forum 'Comcast HSI' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Speed-CC-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5megPowercycle-Resolves-It-21288995 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:33:57 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:33:57 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21294805 said by jlivingood:

I'm not sure I'd call TCP resets of P2P traffic performing an attack on customers - that's more than a bit of a stretch IMHO.
Facinating. I can't see how such secret and malicious interference could be interpreted in any other way. Maybe we can agree to both be glad that episode is soon to be over.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21294805 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:12:41 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21294790 said by joako:

Otherwise you are just any other low-level employee (on the corporate chain, that is) talking the crap upper management wants you to talk.
Joako,

Of course you can hold any opinion or position that you wish, but just to help fix any misconceptions, Jason is not a low-level employee. I'd call him "upper-level technical" before calling him "upper-level management," but he's probably both. One thing that I feel, anyway, is that he's more part of the solution than part of the problem.

I understand your anger. Comcast lost a lot of credibility with me, too. But I also recognize that this new scheme was pre-announced and disclosed in detail (unlike the old RST method). The schedule you asked for has been released (essentially, they will be started by 11/15 and finished by 12/31). And, rather than hunkering behind grandiose-sounding categorical denials, they're in here talking about it. From where I sit, these are steps on the road to the openness that was missing in the RST scandal.

Like you, I think they ought to turn off RSTs now -- if it was wrong then, they're still wrong now, and turning them off is action they could do immediately. They apparently disagree.

But I like the new transparency and we'll have to see if the actions meet the words.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21294790 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:08:43 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21293379 said by sortofageek:


Edit: Holding this open in case the OP would like to make another comment in regard to the problems he experienced with his connection.

In case anyone is interested, it is my understanding the OP's issue was resolved by a modem power cycle.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21293379 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:53:40 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21293064 said by jlivingood:

I'm not sure I'd call TCP resets of P2P traffic performing an attack on customers - that's more than a bit of a stretch IMHO.Well FWIW it actually is an attack on a customer and non-customer at the same time. Comcast is sending forged packets to the customer that appear to be sent, but in reality are not, by the remote end of the connection.

Likewise the remote end of the connection receives a forged packet (it was never sent by the Comcast customer, but is sent from their IP address) that was sent by Comcast, not the customer.

This is a textbook example of a "Man in the middle" attack, even if you do not agree,

I've also seen these measures when e.g. an apartment complex buys wholesale access (from Comcast, obviously) to re-distribute to its tenants, so it is not only affecting the retail cable modem customers.

JL -- for the record -- I have nothing against you. Just the company your work for. --
09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21293064 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:25:08 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292953 said by joako:

So you are assuming this guy even knows how their backbone is run and managed?

"Investments in our backbone continue as usual. " sounds like something management fed him to say.

For the record I have no axes to grind. My guess is as good as yours.
When I was part of the team leading our sponsorship of IETF-71 in Philadelphia in March of this year, we did a production network trial of 100Gbps (see »ietf71.comcast.net/?p=44 and/or see »www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=co···G=Search). So that is an important data point for me. But I also work with Network Engineering on a regular basis (daily or more frequently) on a number of projects. We have a great backbone, only recently deployed* (so state-of-the-art), and we continue to invest in it.

J

* According to public info, the backbone was announced in January 2005 (nearly 4 years ago). At that time, this article noted that the optical and router equipment alone to begin to light the backbone would cost over $100M in 2005. (reference - »www.lightreading.com/document.as···id=69287)
--
JL
Comcast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292953 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:48:48 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292914 said by joako:

Just like when your company started to do Man-in-the-Middle attacks on your customers and non-customers as well and everything was denied?

Sorry but your company has lost all credibility in this sense. Post your current backbone information, including all links and utilization, deployment schedule of the new throttling "technology"and de-install schedule of the Sandvine equipment and maybe you will be believed.
I'm not sure I'd call TCP resets of P2P traffic performing an attack on customers - that's more than a bit of a stretch IMHO. Nevertheless, I can understand your frustration. And surely the entire thing could have, to say the least, been handled better. And it's not little-old-me saying that, this is what the official spokespeople have said. There has also been a 180 change in our views of P2P in general, and many of us have spent a lot of time working on P2P-related technologies since the spring.

But you are 100% correct that trust must be earned back, and I certainly understand that this will take time. You'd have to have your head in the sand not to see that. :-) One of the things that has changed is that the transparency with which we operate has changed dramatically and this continues to evolve. The fact of our incredibly detailed response to the FCC is certainly one small but important step in that direction. But this will have to be proved out, day in and day out, for a long-time. I hope that other ISPs will, over time, choose to be as transparent as we will be.

And part of my job is, in however small and tiny a way, to try to help earn that trust back a little at a time - through action and transparency. I'll do my part, and many other people are committed to doing theirs. You can judge us over time - compare March of 2008 to today, compare today to a month from now, and today to the end of the year, etc. Watch us over time, and tell us what you think over time. It is not an instantaneous change; organizations like people, take time to learn and change and adapt.

And as for something like details on the de-commissioning of the P2P resets, and the migration to the new system, be patient for a little while longer (as noted earlier in this thread) and make your judgement once you see what is disclosed. As was noted in the Compliance Plan with the FCC, we will start migrating markets on or before November 15, 2008. I suspect you may see something a bit before then. ;-)
--
JL
Comcast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292914 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:38:11 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292891
"Investments in our backbone continue as usual. " sounds like something management fed him to say.

For the record I have no axes to grind. My guess is as good as yours. It is a shame the Comcast, the company, have such a bad reputation for being liars... we can't believe anything now.

--
09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292891 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:32:06 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292846 said by joako:

said by jlivingood:

said by joako:

Comcast could be cutting back on their backbone connections in preparation for the new throttling system.
Nope, not doing that either. Investments in our backbone continue as usual. :-)

J
Just like when your company started to do Man-in-the-Middle attacks on your customers and non-customers as well and everything was denied?

Sorry but your company has lost all credibility in this sense. Post your current backbone information, including all links and utilization, deployment schedule of the new throttling "technology"and de-install schedule of the Sandvine equipment and maybe you will be believed.

Otherwise you are just any other low-level employee (on the corporate chain, that is) talking the crap upper management wants you to talk.
And you know what they are doing with the backbone?
How?

I'll take an employee's inside knowledge before I'll take someone who is merely guessing or has an axe to grind.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292846 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:18:49 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292842 said by jlivingood:

said by jdmatl:

Before the new bandwidth techniques, never had this problem before.
And to confirm again, for the avoidance of doubt, this could not be possible -- as the new technique is not in your market.

said by jdmatl:

I don't expect comcast to fix this. Don't exepect anybody here to have any ideas how to fix it.
Have you considered that your news providers may be unable to keep up with your downloads? Maybe they have an issue on their end? Maybe they have an issue with who they buy their bandwidth from? Maybe they are seeing a rise in users due to us and other ISPs discontinuing their usenet services, and they've not yet added more servers and bandwidth? There could be lots and lots of reasons, and many of them won't be within our control.

J
And lots and lots of reasons, well within the control of your company, which you conveniently neglected to mention.
--
09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292842 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:17:30 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292836 said by jlivingood:

said by joako:

Comcast could be cutting back on their backbone connections in preparation for the new throttling system.
Nope, not doing that either. Investments in our backbone continue as usual. :-)

J
Just like when your company started to do Man-in-the-Middle attacks on your customers and non-customers as well and everything was denied?

Sorry but your company has lost all credibility in this sense. Post your current backbone information, including all links and utilization, deployment schedule of the new throttling "technology"and de-install schedule of the Sandvine equipment and maybe you will be believed.

Otherwise you are just any other low-level employee (on the corporate chain, that is) talking the crap upper management wants you to talk.
--
09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292836 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:16:03 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292830 said by jdmatl:

Before the new bandwidth techniques, never had this problem before. And to confirm again, for the avoidance of doubt, this could not be possible -- as the new technique is not in your market.

said by jdmatl:

I don't expect comcast to fix this. Don't exepect anybody here to have any ideas how to fix it.
Have you considered that your news providers may be unable to keep up with your downloads? Maybe they have an issue on their end? Maybe they have an issue with who they buy their bandwidth from? Maybe they are seeing a rise in users due to us and other ISPs discontinuing their usenet services, and they've not yet added more servers and bandwidth? There could be lots and lots of reasons, and many of them won't be within our control.

J
--
JL
Comcast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292830 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:13:38 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292811 said by joako:

Comcast could be cutting back on their backbone connections in preparation for the new throttling system. Nope, not doing that either. Investments in our backbone continue as usual. :-)

J
--
JL
Comcast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292811 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:09:07 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292800 said by funchords:

Sorto, this has nothing to do with bandwidth limits. The O.P. was asking if this was the new traffic mungement scheme. The caps is a different topic.
And for those that missed it before, the new congestion management method is not deployed in the OP's market.

I would recommend the OP contact the news server sites to see if they are keeping up with capacity, and it looks like both cited may buy bandwidth from the same backbone provider.

J
--
JL
Comcast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292800 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:07:13 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292516 said by funchords:

Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It isn't my news provider, I got a second one to verify that.
That's not throttling. If you're seeing swings down AND THEN UP of your speeds during the same transfer, then this is more indicative of normal congestion backoff. This is part of the Internet's normal design. It will quickly drop speed to about half and then slowly work its way back up -- trying to find a rate that is fast but doesn't trip congestion.

The new bandwidth stuff is in East Orange and Lake City, FL -- 150-300 miles from you -- in Comcast's test markets. The new system shouldn't be installed in your area for 5-10 more weeks.

You are illustrating something that I predicted, though -- the new "Gestapo" regime will be blamed for everything, whether it actually is involved or not. Since users won't be notified whether or not they're being managed, then it'll be the thing that users and tech support people will never be able to rule out as a cause. (The only reason we can rule it out now is because it's not installed, yet.)
Comcast could be cutting back on their backbone connections in preparation for the new throttling system.
--
09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21292516 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:06:47 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21291027 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21291027 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 02:06:41 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21291017 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21291017 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:57:34 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290960 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290960 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:26:55 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290797 said by jdmatl:

I don't expect comcast to fix this. Don't exepect anybody here to have any ideas how to fix it.

Just reporting this issue to see if anyone is seeing this problem.
In that case, if it is just more discussion of bandwidth limits, let's keep it here ---> »The Bandwidth Limits/Congestion Management Topic

Edit: Holding this open in case the OP would like to make another comment in regard to the problems he experienced with his connection.

--
Join Team Helix * I am praying for these friends .]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290797 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:24:00 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290793 said by jdmatl:

2) Next my 8meg speed will fall down to 5megs, then powerboost up to 9megs.

W.I.W., it is my understanding that the Powerboost feature does not function in this fashion on a single continuous file download.

Don't exepect anybody here to have any ideas how to fix it.

seems your mind is made up then

Just reporting this issue to see if anyone is seeing this problem.
.
Fair enough. :)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290793 Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:22:22 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290641 said by jdmatl:

I don't expect comcast to fix this. Don't exepect anybody here to have any ideas how to fix it.

Just reporting this issue to see if anyone is seeing this problem.
Thanks for posting the info.

Since it appears you don't require any help, you can have this thread locked. :)
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290641 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:35:55 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290621 WebSTAR DPC2100R2
Hardware Version
2.1
Software Version
v2.0.2r1256-060303
Receive Power Level
3.7 dBmV
Transmit Power Level
46.0 dBmV
----------
I am not losing packets
I am not having DNS issues
I do not have problems passing a 30 second flash speed test. Those 30 second tests show me getting 7.5 megs download speed.

During during sustained 400-800 meg transfer of ftp or nntp my speeds that were once 8meg sustained now average 6megs.

More detail:

1) I get powerboost to 15 or 20 megs, it falls back to 8megs
2) Next my 8meg speed will fall down to 5megs, then powerboost up to 9megs.
3) Sometimes transfer will hold steady at 6megs, move to 9megs, then back down to 6megs

4) My VPN is a cisco vpn client into a Cisco vpn3000 concentrator, no p-2-p junk.

Rinse and repeat Steps 2 & 3.

Before the new bandwidth techniques, never had this problem before.

I don't expect comcast to fix this. Don't exepect anybody here to have any ideas how to fix it.

Just reporting this issue to see if anyone is seeing this problem. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290621 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:30:54 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290529 said by jdmatl:

I would say it is a possibility that it is already here. Unless you work for Comcast, then nobody knows the speed they rolling it out. I don't believe they will come out and publicly announce their roll-out schedule so everyone will know. Be patient...
--
JL
Comcast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290529 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:00:48 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290503 --
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290503 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:53:45 EDT Re: Comcast's Scavenge for Bandwidth Class http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290485
If I'm wrong, please show me where I'm off track!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290485 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:50:04 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290482 said by funchords:

Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It isn't my news provider, I got a second one to verify that.
That's not throttling. If you're seeing swings down AND THEN UP of your speeds during the same transfer, then this is more indicative of normal congestion backoff. This is part of the Internet's normal design. It will quickly drop speed to about half and then slowly work its way back up -- trying to find a rate that is fast but doesn't trip congestion.

The new bandwidth stuff is in East Orange and Lake City, FL -- 150-300 miles from you -- in Comcast's test markets. The new system shouldn't be installed in your area for 5-10 more weeks.
Robb is correct, looks like normal TCP/IP behavior. Oh, and the new technique is not used in your area as of yet, so that's not the culprit.

You did not provide much info about the apps that you are using and the IPs that is destined to, and the duration of your downloads or uploads. Is this purely VPN use (what kind of VPN, destination network?) or P2P, or video streaming, or gaming, or??

J
--
JL
Comcast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290482 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:49:23 EDT Re: Comcast's Scavenge for Bandwidth Class http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290463 said by funchords:

said by AVonGauss:

That seems like an interesting interpretation of the system, scavenging, but I do understand where you are coming from. As I remember they mention that a re-prioritized user will still get seats on the bus, so maybe that is a good question for them. Just how many seats will that user get and is there a specific minimum number of seats that the user can expect to get.
"Scavenger" is not my word. It's the name of this "less-than-best-effort class" (also not my words) of inexpensive delay-tolerant traffic (such as system updates and incremental backups) proposed for Internet2.

The problem is that it was never debated for Internet1 nor for general use ("best-effort") traffic.

I know Robb would like to call it scavenger service but it's just not.

JL
--
JL
Comcast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290463 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:45:13 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290425 said by funchords:

If you wish. The reason that I'm exploring this with you is that you've always been bright, curious, and fair. Please don't see this as an argument -- it's not an argument.

(We could argue over the probable effects of this scheme, but that would be academic until it could actually be tested).

Friends? ;)
Awwww shucks... [insert blushing smiley emoticon here]

Thanks for your kind words Robb !

I never perceived this to be an argument, just a typical DSLR/BBR discussion ! ;)

No worries guy ! :)

Seems we may have veered this thread a bit off topic with our back and forth however.. ? :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290425 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:36:44 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290324
(We could argue over the probable effects of this scheme, but that would be academic until it could actually be tested).

Friends? ;)
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290324 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:13:42 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290297 said by funchords:

Exactly, but only Comcast's VOIP is exempt.

Comcast Digital Voice (CDV) customers use heavy-bandwdith apps, also. Their heavy bandwidth usage has no effect on their calls. The same heavy bandwidth usage by VoiceStick, Vonage, or Skype users will result in dropped packets which will probably degrade or destroy their VOIP calls. (Again, I can't test it until it's here, but it's clear that streaming video and voice can't hold up to long series of dropped packets.)

Since CDV does add to DOCSIS port utilization (where packets get admitted) and to router congestion (where packets get dropped), a CDV customer's VOIP usage actually results in further degrading the service of VoiceStick, Vonage, or Skype customers.

This problem is easily fixed -- just end the exemption. Comcast should not need to prioritize CDV at all if it manages its bandwidth inventory well. You mentioned it yourself -- the connection to the PSTN is very close. Even if CDV is not exempt from the Scavenger treatment, it still ought to outperform its competitors with more distant interconnects. How many non-competitive advantages does Comcast need?

Comcast just needs to keep up with bandwidth demand, treat all traffic equally, disclose what it's doing and what it's selling, temporarily stop selling more subscriptions when they need to upgrade, keep their tiers within reason even if FIOS and DSL are competing, and etc.. You know, the kinds of things it always ought to have done!

What can I say here guy ?

I didn't engineer the system, nor am I an employee.

Please don't try to engage me in any additional stuff here..

I'm just stating things as I understand them to be :)

Again. VoIP bandwidth consumption is considerably small in comparison to other traffic.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290297 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:07:14 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290270 said by jdmatl:

Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It is CrapCasts traffic shaping software.
»catb.org/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290270 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 22:00:59 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290215 said by EG:

said by funchords:

Comcast Digital Voice VOIP subscribers add to the congestion
Well maybe only to the local point of egress to a local telco switch. But their CRAN is 10 GigE. And VoIP traffic bandwidth consumption is rather small anyway.
Exactly, but only Comcast's VOIP is exempt.

Comcast Digital Voice (CDV) customers use heavy-bandwdith apps, also. Their heavy bandwidth usage has no effect on their calls. The same heavy bandwidth usage by VoiceStick, Vonage, or Skype users will result in dropped packets which will probably degrade or destroy their VOIP calls. (Again, I can't test it until it's here, but it's clear that streaming video and voice can't hold up to long series of dropped packets.)

Since CDV does add to DOCSIS port utilization (where packets get admitted) and to router congestion (where packets get dropped), a CDV customer's VOIP usage actually results in further degrading the service of VoiceStick, Vonage, or Skype customers.

This problem is easily fixed -- just end the exemption. Comcast should not need to prioritize CDV at all if it manages its bandwidth inventory well. You mentioned it yourself -- the connection to the PSTN is very close. Even if CDV is not exempt from the Scavenger treatment, it still ought to outperform its competitors with more distant interconnects. How many non-competitive advantages does Comcast need?

Comcast just needs to keep up with bandwidth demand, treat all traffic equally, disclose what it's doing and what it's selling, temporarily stop selling more subscriptions when they need to upgrade, keep their tiers within reason even if FIOS and DSL are competing, and etc.. You know, the kinds of things it always ought to have done!

--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290215 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:50:48 EDT Re: Comcast's Scavenge for Bandwidth Class http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290118 said by AVonGauss:

That seems like an interesting interpretation of the system, scavenging, but I do understand where you are coming from. As I remember they mention that a re-prioritized user will still get seats on the bus, so maybe that is a good question for them. Just how many seats will that user get and is there a specific minimum number of seats that the user can expect to get.
"Scavenger" is not my word. It's the name of this "less-than-best-effort class" (also not my words) of inexpensive delay-tolerant traffic (such as system updates and incremental backups) proposed for Internet2.

The problem is that it was never debated for Internet1 nor for general use ("best-effort") traffic.

»www.google.com/search?q=less-tha···cavenger
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290118 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:29:16 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290108 said by jdmatl:

Agreed about normal congestion backoff. This isn't that normal type of back off. I would say it is a possibility that it is already here. Unless you work for Comcast, then nobody knows the speed they rolling it out. I don't believe they will come out and publicly announce their roll-out schedule so everyone will know.
They kinda did (they disclosed an implementation plan to the FCC), but having read them, they do not rule out the possibility of your being right about Comcast's early deployment in other areas.

You should definitely read these documents and understand them. If you really think that you're being affected, call Comcast support and find out. PLEASE REPORT BACK as to what they say or don't say.

Thanks
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290108 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:24:13 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290093 said by funchords:

Comcast Digital Voice VOIP subscribers add to the congestion
Well maybe only to the local point of egress to a local telco switch. But their CRAN is 10 GigE. And VoIP traffic bandwidth consumption is rather small anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290093 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:21:01 EDT Re: Comcast's Scavenge for Bandwidth Class http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290087 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290087 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:20:08 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290039 said by EG:

said by funchords:

and terrible-quality VOIP calls.
Just for clarity's sake, one should't confuse third party provider VoIP calls with CC's in house CDV service.
Yeah -- that's just gravy, isn't it? Comcast Digital Voice VOIP subscribers add to the congestion just like VoiceStick, Vonage, or Skype subscribers add to the congestion -- yet only Comcast Digital Voice VOIP packets have a guaranteed seat on a lifeboat on the RMS Comcast. The other VOIP packets can have a seat too -- a standby seat -- "ooohh, fresh out of lifeboats."
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290039 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:07:28 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290018 said by funchords:

and terrible-quality VOIP calls.
Just for clarity's sake, one shouldn't confuse third party provider VoIP calls with CC's in house CDV service.

This is not to say that you are confusing them Robb :)

[Edited for spelling]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21290018 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 21:02:48 EDT Comcast's Scavenge for Bandwidth Class http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290001 said by AVonGauss:

Not having ever seen it in action myself I can't be absolutely certain, but I do believe you would see ups and downs with your transfer rate - in some cases dramatic shifts in your transfer rate.
Right. The new "Fair Share" system is not "Throttling," either. It's "Scavenging" for left-overs.

Throttling would mean that your maximum rate is reduced to a particular point and won't ever exceed that while throttled, even if the bandwidth is available. But with throttling, you do -- at the very least -- compete for bandwidth among everyone who needs it.

Once you've made your way into Comcast's "Scavenging" subscriber list, you are entitled to no bandwidth. However, if there is any bandwidth left over, then you may use it up to your subscription.

It's like flying "Stand by," except that you must pay for the full-fare ticket whether or not you ever get a seat on the plane.

Sound bad? It get's worse! If there is enough bandwidth left over that you actually get to use more than half of subscribed speed, you will remain a "Scavenger" until either you've given up on whatever you were doing or Comcast's extra-degraded network conditions grow so bad that you can't reach 50% of your subscription rate during a 15 minute period.

While I have yet to test this, it sure sounds like a recipe for the kinds of packet losses that will result in a crappy streaming video experience and terrible-quality VOIP calls.

However, Comcast has received 0 (zero, nada, zilch, none) complaints about their new scheme. This is interpreted as customer acceptance and they're pretty glad that you like it, because they're rolling it out nationwide.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Comcasts-Scavenge-for-Bandwidth-Class-21290001 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 20:56:21 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289705 www.comcast.net/terms/network/.

We don't have a lot of experience with this system, so personally I know it is hard to say if what you are experiencing is a result of the Fair Share system. One test that I can think of that might give you an idea is:

When you are experiencing low transfer rates, such as the 3 MB, stop all of your Internet activity. Wait a half hour, start back up the same transfers. If you have full speed at that point it is suspicious, but not a firm indicator. Doing this test multiple times would give you a better idea if it is the management system. The theory of this test being there are two factors, your line saturation and your actual usage. If you remove your usage, wait a safe period to make sure your priority is reset, you should no longer be experiencing lower priority transfers. Again, once you start back up the transfer and a decent amount of time has passed, you may get re-prioritized again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289705 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:51:10 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289689 said by AVonGauss:

I am a little bit north of you and haven't seen it myself, but I haven't done any large sustained transfers recently. It could be the traffic management system, but I think we would need more details to be able to determine if that is the case. There are two primary factors that control whether or not the network management system kicks in, your consumption and the level of usage on your line. Both have to be past certain thresholds for the system to kick in at all.
I am thinking it might be usage on my line is higher than others, so it might be kicking in. As stated in another message "officially" it shouldn't be in my area for 5-10 weeks.

It isn't like my speeds fall down to 1.5megs and stay there. But past two weeks during various times I see the exact same speed variance every time I am downloading a 400meg file via either powerusenet (giganews reseller) or Newshosting.

These are two different news providers. NewsHosting is not a gignews reseller.

That is too much a coincidence for me. Throw in FTP to several different sites that follow that same throttle/speed variances. Sometimes if it quacks like a duck, it is a duck! :) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289689 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:47:20 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289662
As you said, you don't know when you get re-prioritized so it is a little bit difficult to say whether it is normal bounciness or you have been re-prioritized. As the other factor is the line saturation, I would recommend the OP try the transfers at different times of the day to see if there is a difference. If it seems to be happening constantly, then I would look else where for an explanation. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289662 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:39:47 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289646 said by funchords:

Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It isn't my news provider, I got a second one to verify that.
That's not throttling. If you're seeing swings down AND THEN UP of your speeds during the same transfer, then this is more indicative of normal congestion backoff. This is part of the Internet's normal design. It will quickly drop speed to about half and then slowly work its way back up -- trying to find a rate that is fast but doesn't trip congestion.

The new bandwidth stuff is in East Orange and Lake City, FL -- 150-300 miles from you -- in Comcast's test markets. The new system shouldn't be installed in your area for 5-10 more weeks.

You are illustrating something that I predicted, though -- the new "Gestapo" regime will be blamed for everything, whether it actually is involved or not. Since users won't be notified whether or not they're being managed, then it'll be the thing that users and tech support people will never be able to rule out as a cause. (The only reason we can rule it out now is because it's not installed, yet.)
Agreed about normal congestion backoff. This isn't that normal type of back off. I would say it is a possibility that it is already here. Unless you work for Comcast, then nobody knows the speed they rolling it out. I don't believe they will come out and publicly announce their roll-out schedule so everyone will know. Aren't test markets there to "test" the technology then seamless as possible, and as invisible as possible, push it out over your entire network?

After the announcement came out about the caps and the new throttling policy my speed issues didn't start over night. Never had any issues with sustained speed until last weekend and it has continued since then.

The methodology to be used about dropping sustained downloads mentioned here:
»New Comcast Throttling System = 'A Really Good DSL Experience'
is exactly what I am seeing.

Also this
»Comcast, Cox, Trot Out Their Worst 'Bandwidth Hogs'
----
"Comcast’s plan is to identify the 2% or 3% of customers who over the last hour or two have consumed more than 50% of the capacity on the network, Werner said. Those heavy users are then given lower priority and will have their bandwidth limited for a temporary period of time. However, Werner said, "even those who go to that lower state will be above DSL. So it’s not terrible.""
----
DSL-like speed is what I am seeing. If my people on my network loop usage is very light 20 megs/hr, and I am pulling down a couple of 300 & 200meg files, then I would be a prime target according the article

At times, late at night, I can keep my 8megs sustained, ftp, nntp, to various sites, not problem.

My whole point is that *if* this is the new throttling technology, I am not impressed by it one bit and if anything it appears to be worse than DSL.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289646 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:35:50 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289331 Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It isn't my news provider, I got a second one to verify that.That's not throttling. If you're seeing swings down AND THEN UP of your speeds during the same transfer, then this is more indicative of normal congestion backoff. This is part of the Internet's normal design. It will quickly drop speed to about half and then slowly work its way back up -- trying to find a rate that is fast but doesn't trip congestion.

The new bandwidth stuff is in East Orange and Lake City, FL -- 150-300 miles from you -- in Comcast's test markets. The new system shouldn't be installed in your area for 5-10 more weeks.

You are illustrating something that I predicted, though -- the new "Gestapo" regime will be blamed for everything, whether it actually is involved or not. Since users won't be notified whether or not they're being managed, then it'll be the thing that users and tech support people will never be able to rule out as a cause. (The only reason we can rule it out now is because it's not installed, yet.)
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289331 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:14:45 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289234 said by Johkal:

That's fine and dandy, but do you have any ideas to help the OP? ;)
Comcast is supposed to be phasing throttling in over the next few months. I'd call and see if that is the situation, if not, then there is another problem. If throttling is in place, it must be lived with.

Will business traffic be throttled, if not, moving to a business account is a possibility.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289234 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:54:55 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289102 said by pandora:

Throttling won't be so bad if Comcast doubles our speeds in the near future. Personally I don't mind throttling for large downloads or uploads.
That's fine and dandy, but do you have any ideas to help the OP? ;)
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289102 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:10:45 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289057 --
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289057 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:53:54 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289019 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289019 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:42:16 EDT Re: [Speed] Comcast Throttles my 8meg to 5meg http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289013 Comcast High Speed Internet FAQ »How To Get Help!
--
Write me up a 125.......I Can't Drive 55 »redrocker.com/ »cabowabo.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Speed-Comcast-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5meg-21289013 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:40:02 EDT [Speed] CC Throttles my 8meg to 5meg-Powercycle Resolves It http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Speed-CC-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5megPowercycle-Resolves-It-21288995
Now with the new Gestapo controls, my 8meg falls to 5meg, then 4, the 3 back to 9meg then 8meg. It isn't my news provider, I got a second one to verify that.

It is CrapCasts traffic shaping software. My guess is that my Avg speed is about 6megs. Then why in the hell am I paying these guys for 8megs since I can't get that sustained speed anymore?!!!

Anybody else in FL or else where seeing these huge speed swings on large file transfers of 300-700 megs?

Again, it isn't my news provider. Have tested with two providers, one being GigaNews, 2 or 3 ftp sites.

Any body with 6meg getting something similar to this when you max-out your 6meg link with a 300meg file

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Speed-CC-Throttles-my-8meg-to-5megPowercycle-Resolves-It-21288995 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:34:21 EDT