tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to TheMG
Re: Where to buy silicone sealant for boiler blower assembly
The silicone that is shown in the first pic is more than sufficient.
A Weil-McLain gold will never generate above 350° exhaust temps, and most any silicone will handle that.
As for the pinging sound, you probably slid the squirrel cage too far out on the shaft, and it is contacting some inner surface inside the blower housing. Not a huge issue if it only makes the noise on startup/shutdown, but should be investigated.
You do know this motor needs oiled once a year, usually at the beginning of the heating season...?
-j |
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Langning
Premium
join:2003-04-28
Marlborough, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by tp0d  :The silicone that is shown in the first pic is more than sufficient. A Weil-McLain gold will never generate above 350° exhaust temps, and most any silicone will handle that. BTW, it is Weil-McLain HE-5 Series 3 Boiler 133,000BTU at 82% efficiency. I can touch the flue vent and it doesn't feel any hotter than the hot water pipe which tops out at 180 degree. Then again I already purchased the large tube of high heat silicone sealant and used only a tiny amount...
As for the pinging sound, you probably slid the squirrel cage too far out on the shaft, and it is contacting some inner surface inside the blower housing. Not a huge issue if it only makes the noise on startup/shutdown, but should be investigated. I will dissemble the blower unit again tomorrow morning. I was waiting for the ebay motor to arrive. But the seller only shipped it this Wed. and it won't arrive until next Monday. Because I needed a full day to give enough time for the silicone to cure and yet I don't lose heat at night, I can only do this on weekend. Also I need an extra hand (from my wife) to hold the motor while I tighten the screws in confined space.
You do know this motor needs oiled once a year, usually at the beginning of the heating season...? Yes, I know. But stupid me I had been using the 3-in-1 household lubricant because it came in a small bottle with a telescoping spout. While researching on the motor, I realized this motor requires SAE 20W motor oil; I have to go out and purchased a $10 metal can with long flexible neck and a quart of 20W motor that is going to last thousand years at the rate of 5 drops per year. The placement of the motor make it impossible to oil any other way. |
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Langning
Premium
join:2003-04-28
Marlborough, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Langning
Since some of you are very knowledgeable with heating equipments, I am going to ask for solution(s) on another problem of this boiler: it cycles too often when the thermostat calls for heat. After I'd been monitoring the boiler everyday this week and reading enough information on hot water boiler heating, I reach the conclusion that my boiler is simply producing too much heat for the baseboard radiator in my house (about 1200 sf upstairs heated to 68 when we are home and 600 sf downstairs and its thermostat setting is at 60 but the room temperature is always higher because the boiler ans HW heater in the utility plus the gas dryer in the laundry room) can dissipate fast enough. The boiler stops because of the high limit (which is set to 180) has been reached and the aquastat (honeywell box with 2 white wires) cuts off the power to the vent motor. When the power vent is off, the pressure switch (round thing with orange & white rubber hoses) cuts off the power to the 24V transformer, the ignition control module, and the gas valve...
The 2-zone circulators are controlled by 2 other outside Honeywell relays (in-line between the thermostat and the boiler) and they are constantly on while the boiler's temperature bounces between 160/170 (turn on) to 180 (shut off). Usually take the burner like 30 seconds (add another 30-40 seconds to the purge cycle) to heat up 10 degree and wait a minute or 2 to drop to the low temperature of 160-170 and the cycle repeat continuously until the thermostat temperature is reached.
Without the expensive option of replacing the boiler with a smaller one, what are my best option(s) among:
1. Increase the aquastat high limit to 190 or 200?
2. Remove a few of 8 burner tubes and plug the gas hole(s) on the manifold. Less burner=Less BTU.
3. Add more metal fins to the baseboard pipe to radiate heat faster. 1/3 of the pipe inside has not metal fin. This requires cutting the copper pipe and using the torch is something I never done and always tried to avoid. New pipes with metal fins are cheaply available.
4. Install DIY a $200 device called Beckett Heat Manager. The wire schematic is not exactly same as the example provided and I don't know if it works.
»www.becketthm.com/
5. The current Honeywell ignition module is an universal replacement of the original module which was fried many years ago. And I don't know if the Honeywell module is a factor the frequent cycleing.
6. Remove the downstairs zone relay and have the upstairs thermostat control both circulators. Instead of hot water heating 1200 sf, it heats 1800 sf at any given time. More BTU demand = less cycling. |
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Tyreman
join:2002-10-08
4 edits | 2. Remove a few of 8 burner tubes and plug the gas hole(s) on the manifold. Less burner=Less BTU.
Asolute NO Dangerous and illegal
3. Add more metal fins to the baseboard pipe to radiate heat faster. 1/3 of the pipe inside has not metal fin. This requires cutting the copper pipe and using the torch is something I never done and always tried to avoid. New pipes with metal fins are cheaply available
NO again
4. Install DIY a $200 device called Beckett Heat Manager. The wire schematic is not exactly same as the example provided and I don't know if it works.
»www.becketthm.com/
No I wouldn't add more complications,its basically another dressed up aqua stat. Keep it simple
What type of rads modern slant fin style copper tube?Likely
So 180-200f
or older cast iron? if it is cast iron 160F is it.
Every once and awhile this problem is about service people see it.
Its really hard to give exact setting instructions as one would have to see all facets of the installation including the piping/rad layouts.
Its fine to play armchair detective but being there and completely examining the system as a whole is THE only proper way.
I have even found valves some partially closed in systems etc.
people trying to adjust it better
Boiler maybe running on limit while either zone is becoming satisfied.
If it was my system I can't see it from here,all its piping layouts etc but I would likley have it back on one main stat in the main living area.
But you have 2 circulators,zone controllers and it may be piped to support a zone system configuaration. |
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jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
clubs:
 ·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Langning
You can remove a couple of outer burners and orifices if you like, and plug the manifold opening with a pipe plug.
Each burner removed will decrease the gas input by roughly 17,000BTU/hr.
Several boiler manufacturers I know of do exactly this to deliver different boiler output ratings.
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Tyreman
join:2002-10-08
2 edits | I am from Ontario Canada
You wouldn't do that here and be responsible for it(as a certified fitter), because it changes the original certified rating of the apppliance from its original approval listing
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Southern Ontario,Canada |
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jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
clubs:
·Comcast
1 edit | One can decrease the boiler rating, but not increase it.
The UL / AGA / CGA listing certifies the boiler maximum BTU input and gross output rating based on that input.
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Tyreman
join:2002-10-08
| The UL / AGA / CGA listing certifies the boiler maximum BTU input and gross output rating based on that input.
Well yes of course its certified and designed to run at the rating stamped on the plate
If a fixed input unit its approx. 10% underfired at new anyway.
Over here IF the manufacturers instructions specifically indicate what you want to do (remove orifices,buners and plug to achieve various inputs)then its okay.
Thats is to say the boiler manual for the said equipment comes with instructions to do that its fine.
And you are correct "one can do" whatever they want. |
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tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Carnegie, PA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to Langning
As for de-rating the boiler, yes it is legal in the states.
I would recommend to remove the two end burners, and plug them with the correct size plug, probably 1/8" NPT. Your pilot should be in the center, and will light the burners correctly still.
You can also turn down the regulator on the gas valve, only about 1/2 to one full turn. I recommend doing this while running, and observing the flames before and after. You want no more than 1/4 less flame height than original. Thats also a good time to remove all burners and wash them out with water.
If you take a pic of your gas valve, I can show you where the reg screw is.
edit-- as for answers to the other q's--
1- no, anything over 180 will waste gas. technically, its best to modulate this setting, when the outdoor temp is between 25 and 50, heat with 160 max, and when outdoor is less, then go to 180. This allows higher efficiency. Your lockout high limit should be at 210.
2- (covered above)
3- I could recommend purchasing a small fan, only if you have an area with low traffic, around the baseboard. The fan will assist in convection and steal more heat from the system. It could be turned on when the weather gets colder, or possibly via a relay in parallel with the boiler tstat contacts. You would want the fan as far as possible from the wall tstat to prevent erratic temps.
4- overkill. 200 in gas will suit your situation better.
5- the module probably isnt, you can watch your boiler fire, if the pilot proves, then goes out, you may have either a dirty flame rod on the pilot or a bad ground between the two.
6- bad idea. heat rises, so the upstairs stat comes on less. your downstairs would be cold.
-j
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if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!) |
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jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
clubs:
·Comcast
| I would advise against touching the gas valve gas pressure regulator. The main burner primary air is entrained by the velocity of the gas stream injecting into the burner, go too low and you get delayed ignition / flashback. Neither are desirable.
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SandShark
So it goes
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Tyreman
said by Tyreman :The UL / AGA / CGA listing certifies the boiler maximum BTU input and gross output rating based on that input. Well yes of course its certified and designed to run at the rating stamped on the plate If a fixed input unit its approx. 10% underfired at new anyway. Over here IF the manufacturers instructions specifically indicate what you want to do (remove orifices,buners and plug to achieve various inputs)then its okay. Thats is to say the boiler manual for the said equipment comes with instructions to do that its fine. And you are correct "one can do" whatever they want. I agree. If the manufacturer has specific instructions included with the appliance that allows modification, it would be fine. I'm not a boiler technician, but I have installed hundreds of gas furnaces and the only in the field modifications I have ever seen suggested in the installation/service documentation is converting from natural gas to propane/LPG. I would highly recommend not modifying the output of your boiler by plugging burners or adjusting the gas pressure regulator. |
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Tyreman
join:2002-10-08
2 edits | reply to Langning
The problem with closing off orifices on fixed input and rated appliances like boilers is the possibility of condensation within the vent and appliances.
perhaps also changing the normal percentage of constituents of the flue gas for that appliance.
Poor venting can be the result.
Let alone changing the whole operating parameter of the appliance period.
The appliance has to be installed as it was approved.
Boilers with listed firing rates and NOT with instructions to reduce that or listed as approved to do that with their instructions leave the mechanic in Canada anyway open to
being strung up and tarred and feathered.
Keep in mind this boiler is likely designed within to extract the maximum amount of heat and say its around 300-400 at stack with that BTU input on the rating plate.
If its on a borderline chimney or vent(I wouldn't know I haven't seen it) additionally with poor connector rise and run,let alone height and other factors, dropping the input then checking it with the approved charts for venting might show you that its not legal with the reduced input.
--
Southern Ontario,Canada |
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Langning
Premium
join:2003-04-28
Marlborough, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Sorry I hadn't have time to respond as I was busy finishing installing trim & moulding on my lower level tiling project. I did remove the blower yesterday and found the blower wheel was touching the housing. I adjusted blower wheel on the motor shaft and the rubbing noise problem is solved...
I did bumped up the aquastat high limit to 190. However, the outside temperature are warmer this weekend and the boiler didn't kick on that much. So I am not sure how the cycling is affected.
I am not home right now I don't have a closeup photo of the gas valve. As one can see from the 2nd pic, my unit (HE-5) has 8 burner tubes and Weil McLain made the HE gas boilers with various BTU output and the differences are in the number of burner tubes and/or size of cast iron core. As to remove the 1 to 2 burner tubes solution, how do I close the gas openings on the gas log? |
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jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
clubs:
·Comcast
| The orifices screw out of the manifold and either a 1/8 or 1/4 inch NPT pipe plug will fit the opening.
If you're inclined to go ahead and remove burners, don't take out any from the left, that's where the ignitor and sensor are.
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Langning
Premium
join:2003-04-28
Marlborough, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by jack b :The orifices screw out of the manifold and either a 1/8 or 1/4 inch NPT pipe plug will fit the opening. Does Home Depot or Lowe carry these "pipe plug"? When installing the plugs, I don't need to use pipe thread compound, right? Simply unscrew the old one and screw in new plug? |
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jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
clubs:
·Comcast
| Either should have them. Bring in an orifice to match the thread size. Put a little pipe dope on the threads, and gently tighten. When you fire it up, put a little soap-water solution on the threads to check for leaks.
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~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~ |
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