DownLow
Nope...I Got Nothing
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Long Island | reply to Archivis
Re: nerf ret paladins *again*
Oh, I know about the immune effect (just using it as an example of a pain in the ass cc effect).
Don't get me started with rogue lockdowns!
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult! |
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JIGA
Its A Bird, Its A Plane, Its..
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Azle, TX
clubs: | reply to SSX4life
Upon reflection, I do not wish to post. Take me back!
Uggh, I think the horse is starting to smell...  |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | NERF JIGA AAAAAAARGH |
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JIGA
Its A Bird, Its A Plane, Its..
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Azle, TX
clubs:
 ·Charter Pipeline
| said by Archivis  :NERF JIGA AAAAAAARGH I just need to roll a pally  FOTM FTW! 
They are just a pain now. I guess I see the other end of my Hunter's bow or my Rogue's stun lock now. I guess paladin's deserve to "open a can of Ass-Whoopin!" on other classes for once. They just kill me so fast 
My Rogue, sure, I can stun lock you from 100-0 but the battle isn't won in >5 seconds. And my Hunter will play range game all day, but again, that game lasts a good 10 seconds. |
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Mineola, NY
clubs:
| reply to DownLow
said by DownLow :Gee advocate, don't like pally hammer stuns? Ever fight a druid and spend the whole fight in a cyclone? sigh
1.5s cast
the druid spends 50% of the time casting...and you go immunue and you want to compair the two?
Not even a real CC since the third effect does not even last as long as the cast.
sigh, and now pallies are attacking all the class forums. esp the mage and druid forums..and people wonder why they hate pallies? At least when shaman went on a rampage they did it in general and shaman forums....double sigh
Guess what...according to beta parces of dps pallies are now at the 4.2-4.4k barrier set up for hybrids. Pure dps classes are doing 5-5.4k dps.
Before ret was at 5k...welcome back to the hybrids place at the bottom. Normilization my ass blizzard..back to second class hybrids again for all of us |
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Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27
clubs:
| said by P Ness :said by DownLow :....Normilization my ass blizzard..back to second class hybrids again for all of us So what exactly did you want, a hybrid outdoing a pure class?!? Great idea, while we are at it, I want heals on my mage and lock, I want plate and bubble on my rogue and basically everyone plays the same class with the only difference being the haircut, except I want my toon to be OP! |
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DownLow
Nope...I Got Nothing
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Long Island
1 edit | said by Dodge :said by P Ness :said by DownLow :....Normilization my ass blizzard..back to second class hybrids again for all of us So what exactly did you want, a hybrid outdoing a pure class?!? Great idea, while we are at it, I want heals on my mage and lock, I want plate and bubble on my rogue and basically everyone plays the same class with the only difference being the haircut, except I want my toon to be OP! Misquote, I never said that! I understand what a hybrid class is..and I am not arguing anything about OP (in fact, my only beef with the Ret nerfs continue to be its side effects on Holy). |
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Mineola, NY
clubs:
| reply to Dodge
said by Dodge :said by P Ness :said by DownLow :....Normilization my ass blizzard..back to second class hybrids again for all of us So what exactly did you want, a hybrid outdoing a pure class?!? Great idea, while we are at it, I want heals on my mage and lock, I want plate and bubble on my rogue and basically everyone plays the same class with the only difference being the haircut, except I want my toon to be OP! oh sorry i forgot i spent 61 points in a DPS tree only to be behind by 15% in the dps meters.
Yep worked out well for the ONLY moonkin in the guild and only ONE OF FOUR T6 geared moonkin on the server.
Yep, always works out....was really easy getting into raids in SW and they never kicked me out for that warlock..or 4 warlocks...nope. Sure it worked out, we always had 4 ret pallies on muru..yep that kitty druid was tearing up the dps meters.
Lets see i am doing 5k dps....i stop to heal....now i am only doing 4k dps...i stop to heal...now i am doing 3k dps..
hmm, you mean healing actually is its OWN DPS LIMITATION??? no way???
BTW that lock has just as many healing options as i do and hardly has to stop dps'ing to do it, one of his heals actually causes damage on top of it.....and that mage...can heal during evo now and can go 100% invul to damage...and that warrior has a heal....you were saying?
so why cant i do competitive damage?
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rawwhide
Zer0
Premium
join:2000-09-03
Zero
clubs:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
2 edits | reply to d_advocate
said by d_advocate :said by Integrator :In all my years of playing this game, I have never read a post by blue that stated blatantly-----we made a mistake. I'm not how sure how blatant you're expecting, but If you've read Ghostcrawler's post about the ret nerf, its pretty much a "we screwed the pooch, sorry." said by rawwhide :This is the problem that plagues servers and pvp. You had never thought about fighting paladins before, get your HK and move on to the next kill. You might have changed your tune from crying to "Lets do this"! For the vast majority of others they don't want to do anything more than just faceroll paladins, hence all the crying. They still want that easy HK from paladins. It went from them owning paladins to getting owned by paladins. Instead of figuring out how to play against the new and improved paladins, people just cried nerf this and nerf that. I will admit that in pvp a ret maybe OP, but I dont know since I dont pvp much. I'm sorry but your last sentence basically rendered your argument moot. The reason people say you can "faceroll" as a ret pally is because they are so utterly simple. Its not hard to figure out what a ret pally is going to do. No amount of experience or leet pvp skill will let you counter a near 100 - 0 stun lock. Its silly if the only way to not die within one hammer of justice is to trinket out of it. What do you do when the second hammer comes 50 seconds (soon to be 20 seconds) later? How do you kite someone who has cleanse, bof, pursuit of justice, seal of justice, and can repentence you, which you can't trinket out of since your saving that for the hammer? What do you do? Well you nerf the stun in a pvp environment. They already nerfed judgement of justice so it doesn't work in pvp, unless it was recently changed back to work with none npc's. Seal of justice only gives a paladin a "slight" chance to stun for 2 seconds. Did blizz change stuns? No, they nerf the paladins only viable tree now which is dps causing damage to the other 2 talent trees. My last sentence didn't render anything moot, because I do pvp, just not "much". Im honestly tired of rogues stun locks and no CD's on locks fears. It is pathetic that a class can stun/fear lock others from 100-0.
Like Jiga said, said by JIGA :My Rogue, sure, I can stun lock you from 100-0 but the battle isn't won in >5 seconds. It doesn't matter that the battle isn't won in 5, 10, 15, or even 20 seconds, it's the fact that you can stun lock a person from 100-0. CC in pvp should be non existent. Fears, cyclones, roots, and stuns should all be gone imho. The argument and crying is about stunned from 100-0 with paladins. They aren't doing anything different than rogues besides the 100-0 is a little faster. All classes had the ability to completely faceroll paladins before, now I guess its going back to that after all the crying and nerfs. /sigh Paladins can limp along to level 80 where hopefully things are balanced. It will be my last level 70 that I level to 80 since it will be an all out struggle and challenge. I know the content will be much more challenging than it was for 60-70 with the release of BC. I might as well /reroll a DK to replace the paladin.
said by Dodge :said by P Ness :said by DownLow :....Normilization my ass blizzard..back to second class hybrids again for all of us So what exactly did you want, a hybrid outdoing a pure class?!? Not exactly, paladins want to be as good as other classes to fill multiple rolls when needed to. Spec prot to tank, holy to heal and ret to dps. Since paladins have only had 2 trees in the past the current boost to the ret tree without a boost to the others and now the nerfs is really putting a hurting on the other 2 trees(especially holy).
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quickbeam
Premium
join:2003-06-01
Ottawa | reply to SSX4life
Have any of the incoming nerfs been applied to the regular servers? |
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pounce
join:2008-05-16
Mount Holly, NJ
| reply to SSX4life
I've got some thought on the whole "pure class" thing that seems to come up a lot during these sort of discussions. IMO, the pure classes are rogue, mage, lock, and hunter. The rest are hybrids, since they have at least one tree that has a different purpose then the others. For example, a warrior has two DPS trees, fury and arms, and a tank tree. The warrior is a hybrid, just like the priest, shammy, druid, pally, and come expansion time, the DK. I agree that the "pure" classes should have an edge in DPS over hybrids. However, it seems that people only include shaman, druids and paladin in the hybrid category, when in reality most classes are hybrid. This is why it doesn't make sense to me when, for example, a ret pally used to and will soon again hit like a girl while the MS warrior pwns. Thoughts? |
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Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27
clubs:
| reply to P Ness
Point is, you have options on what else you can do, pure DPS classes don't. You can drop back from DPS and start healing the raid (and I say raid not PvP only because you dragged T6 into this so I am assuming its more important to you) if one of the healers is down, a mage can't, neither can a lock or a rogue. You can take a melee hit as a moonking much better than a clothie can.
What you are asking can be traslated as follows:
I spent 61 points on a dps tree I should be able to compete on DPS. In my opinion then all of your "hybrid spells" should be turned off, however then you are a mage with too much armor. So ok, let's turn off the armor, and voila you are a mage completely. So go roll one if you want to be pure dps, as hybrid class moonkins are perfectly fine at this point.
Same thing with pallies, you want to melee people into the ground, and yet be protected by a bubble while you are doing it?!? What other class has anything even remotely similar to this? So for balance sake, no bubble, turn off heals and cleanse, and omg it's a warrior. |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
| reply to SSX4life
After the nerf, one of our 'healers' came to BT still ret spec'd and averaged 1500 DPS. He said he can still kill players within the stun period. It might be his gear, but I think Blizzard didn't carry out all their threats.
My problem with this is not getting spanked in BGs or Arena. My problem with this is where have all the healers gone!!! |
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Margolis
Premium
join:2003-11-24
Saint Louis, MO | reply to SSX4life
strange everybody talking about how all pallies switched to retribution. On Khaz Modan holy and protection paladins still outnumber retribution. Seems whatever they were before, they still are. |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
| I think this started on some servers as some guilds stopped raiding and some of their healers decided to respec to get ready for leveling. Then the word got out and a bunch more followed. In our guild most of our pallies are still spec'd the same, only 2 have switched to ret and as we have plenty of other healers this isn't much of a problem.
So I think it's more of a joke than serious complaint. We mess with them a bit and ask 'When are we going to get our healers back?' |
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DownLow
Nope...I Got Nothing
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Long Island | I know I switched to Ret for leveling because of this patch and fully expect to switch to holy for instances - afterall, no one wants Ret to be useful for anything! :/
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Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult! |
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elboricua
El Subestimado
Premium
join:2001-08-12
Bronx, NY
| reply to SSX4life
People QQ about the bubble. rather than do some of the planned nerfs, like no more attacking while bubbled, why not change the mechanic of the bubble to mimic a warriors shield wall. Only healer and prot pallies would be able to use it as Ret uses a giant 2 hander.
Sigh, I really like the dps my tankadin was putting out and I am going to sad to see it go. It really helps with dailies. I can do QD in about 40 minutes now solo as opposed to an hour to an hour and ten minutes. I'll be bugging people again to group up for simple things just because it takes so long to kill stuff.
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Sending script kiddies to /dev/null since 1995! |
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DownLow
Nope...I Got Nothing
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Long Island
2 edits | Please get over the bubble..it isn't god-mode!
That is why priests are so deadly to Pally - mass dispel, fear and mana burn.
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Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27
clubs:
| said by DownLow :Please let over the bubble..it isn't god-mode! hat is why priests are so deadly to Pally - mass dispel, fear and mana burn. I'll make sure to have a priest handy at all times. I wonder if I can get a priest as a pet? Now that would be awesome. |
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elboricua
El Subestimado
Premium
join:2001-08-12
Bronx, NY
| reply to elboricua
said by elboricua :People QQ about the bubble. rather than do some of the planned nerfs, like no more attacking while bubbled, why not change the mechanic of the bubble to mimic a warriors shield wall. Only healer and prot pallies would be able to use it as Ret uses a giant 2 hander. Sigh, I really like the dps my tankadin was putting out and I am going to sad to see it go. It really helps with dailies. I can do QD in about 40 minutes now solo as opposed to an hour to an hour and ten minutes. I'll be bugging people again to group up for simple things just because it takes so long to kill stuff. Just saying. I know Bubble is not god mode. I have a pally. I leveled him to 60 as ret. People just don't know how to deal with the pally, that is all. When people can't figure out a strat, they immediately cry nerf.
Shield wall type bubble makes the most sense to me, especially when you read Ghostcrawlers posts about attacking while bubbled being removed. Nevermind the fact that it's in the prot tree to be able to attack at full speed and costs 2 talent points to do. |
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