Integrator
Rock of the Marne
Premium
join:2002-09-02
Keller, TX
| reply to Lledwyn
Re: nerf ret paladins *again*
I can agree with that, the biggest problem comes up on PvP servers. Since ret is overpowered what is a player to do while trying to level when a retadin runs up to them?
I have seen everything on the official WoW forums from get a friend (as if that makes a difference against a retadin), find a healer (same problem as before) or run (which should never be the mandatory case for any class versus any class). Only a member of the OP class would suggest such.....well shit to other classes.
None of this applies on a PvE server. The game is so unbalanced right now and will continue to be into late leveling in WotLK that it isn't even funny and many classes have it better than others. |
|
Integrator
Rock of the Marne
Premium
join:2002-09-02
Keller, TX
| reply to Lledwyn
said by Lledwyn :said by Integrator  :I will say it again for emphasis. NO CLASS SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO IMMUNE, HAVE QUALITY HEALS, STUN, AND DISH THE DAMAGE THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING DONE. I guess we better let Blizzard know that they need to take care of the druids... I do believe droods got the shit kicked out of them a month or so into BC. Not to mention they have no Bubble button and CONTINUE TO ATTACK or stun (unless feral). Only a hope a drood has is to kite you, and good luck with being effective at that cause oooops yeah, the drood just got stunned and rets have stupid burst damage. You still fail to admit that retadin's are in general very overpowered in their current form. |
|
DarkspiteAzgalor
@medtronic.com
| reply to SSX4life
Thanks for the correction Lledwyn. I had them mixed up. In my scrub arena experience (and in bgs too) I haven't faced many ret pallies until a week ago. What's to stop them for repentancing me after I trinket and healing to full? (please don't read sarcasm) |
|
shray
Premium
join:2002-09-05
Edison, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
| reply to SSX4life
IN ORDER TO BEAT RET PALADIN U MUST KITE THEM AND AVOID HAMMER NOT JUST ATTEMPT TO TANK THEM
EVASION IS USELESS
DISARM IS OKAY
CLOAK IS BEST
o and speccing pvp not a bad idea
--
(19:38:51) (Amr) I like how my posts are approved and then deleted by another mod |
|
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Integrator
Holy Pally + Moonkin vs. Me + wife (Ret pally/feral druid).
We go to own the moonkin, my wife gets repentenced, trinkets out, gets faghamered. The moonkin and I are going at it. I bubble to keep myself safe, the druid starts healing. I hammer, he trinkets, pally/moonkin get healed to full. I top myself off, go back to work on the moonkin. Wife is also on the pally to keep him stunned/tied up. Paladin bubbles, bop's moonkin.
While moonkin gets BoP'd and proceeds to finish me off with starfall, starfire, treants, whatever else he has.
Lost a majority of time against moonkins. I wasn't upset,
but figured it part of the rock, paper, scissor setup. For the evening, we were pleased with our record, something like 13-5.
May pick it up tonight. Ret paladins aren't OP anymore. The teams that have adapted are able to pick me off. The other teams just try to out faceroll us and I think that's what a bulk of the complainers are about.
I could probably show a majority of the classes how to counter a ret paladin. Hunters, Mages, Rogues, Moonkins, healer priests, should have minimal difficulty.
Warriors have a hard time as well as shamans.
Rock paper scissors, kids. You're just now seeing ret getting a chance to play. The rest of you whiners will need to l2p. |
|
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to shray
said by shray :IN ORDER TO BEAT RET PALADIN U MUST KITE THEM AND AVOID HAMMER NOT JUST ATTEMPT TO TANK THEM EVASION IS USELESS DISARM IS OKAY CLOAK IS BEST o and speccing pvp not a bad idea Stun, hit hit, stun hit hit. If the pally trinkets out of it, blind him, run out of combat, stealth up, rinse repeat.
When he goes to bubble, vanish, wait for bubble to break, rinse repeat.
The rogues that beat me are the ones who play their class the best. I've facerolled well-geared rogues while turning around and getting owned by S2/honor geared rogues who play better. |
|
Integrator
Rock of the Marne
Premium
join:2002-09-02
Keller, TX | Faceroll = Reatadin |
|
DownLow
Nope...I Got Nothing
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Long Island
| said by Integrator :Faceroll = Reatadin No...faceroll = lock (or it used to be) |
|
Integrator
Rock of the Marne
Premium
join:2002-09-02
Keller, TX
| said by DownLow :said by Integrator :Faceroll = Reatadin No...faceroll = lock (or it used to be) God how true that USED to be. It has fallen to a new class and spec until I can see it with my own eyes. |
|
DarkspiteAzgalor
@medtronic.com
| reply to SSX4life
Thanks for the tips Archivis. Shray, despite the caps you have some good points as well. If a pally gets me out of stealth in a bg since I've usually just killed something else, I'll just take the HoJ stun up the rear and wait for rez  Which is probably what any other class thinks when they a rogue surprises them I guess I understand now why other classes hate us so much. |
|
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Integrator
Affliction is very brutal in PVP. May not be so great against a paladin who bubbles, but if you can survive that, you're in good shape... maybe do some pillar humping until that happens. Save the trinket for faghammer.
After that bubble wears off, death coil, siphon life, whatever the hell else you can toss up, a haunt even, the drain life. It's game over from that point. |
|
DarkspiteAzgalor
@medtronic.com | reply to SSX4life
Forgot to mention that in bgs vanish and trinket are usually down. That's when I just wait the HoJ out. bleh. |
|
Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to DarkspiteAzgalor
said by DarkspiteAzgalor :Thanks for the tips Archivis. Shray, despite the caps you have some good points as well. If a pally gets me out of stealth in a bg since I've usually just killed something else, I'll just take the HoJ stun up the rear and wait for rez Which is probably what any other class thinks when they a rogue surprises them I guess I understand now why other classes hate us so much. Against a paladin, you always use the trinket on the hammer. They've got one other stun, repentence, which is like your blind. Very few paladins these days seem to treat that like rogues treat blind, as a method to tie up a partner. They like to use it as a distance closer, because they don't have the kind of poisons to keep a person slowed down.
I've not seen how disarm works against a ret paladin, if that's possible at all, but it would wreck us if it did.
Evasion isn't that great either... but maybe cloak + evasion would nullify all physical and spell damage. Not sure about that myself.
I've been using Seal of Command in PVP lately. I think I may switch to Seal of Corruption so the damage ticks can keep going. On top of that, I've got the exalted BT trinket that puts an additional DoT on. It may screw rogues up who decide to vanish or re-stealth or whatever without using cloak first (I don't think many rogues think to cloak against a paladin). |
|
Lledwyn
@twinfallstitle.com
| reply to DarkspiteAzgalor
said by DarkspiteAzgalor :
Thanks for the correction Lledwyn. I had them mixed up. In my scrub arena experience (and in bgs too) I haven't faced many ret pallies until a week ago. What's to stop them for repentancing me after I trinket and healing to full? (please don't read sarcasm)
Repentance has a cooldown on it. Right now, fights don't last long enough for that to even be considered a factor. I don't honestly think it was pre-3.0 either and I don't think it will after WotLK either.
Just let them run up and hit you once and then you're out of the repentance. If they HoJ you afterwards, that's when you trinket and move.
As a rogue, I prefer to sneak up on them, open with a CS and then go into my mutilate rotation. If they trinket out of the CS, it's a quick KS and back to work. If they bubble, I Cloak of Skill, Vanish and then move far enough away that they look like idiots as they run around in circles consecrating and trying to find me.
Once the bubble wears off, they have absolutely nothing left to stop me from raping them. After CS/KS, dismantle. No weapon = dead ret paladin. They're plate, so I always throw up a Rupture on them. If they're trying to heal themselves, it's easy to kick to disrupt or even move away and silence them for 3s. I'm trusting that you've got your pvp gloves with the silence effect on them.
People have a tough time with Ret right now because everyone is god-mode. So, they think that the old pvp rules don't apply, but they do. A good ret paladin is fearsome. A bad one is a free HK. I'll be honest, I have far, far more trouble with prot warriors right now than ret paladins. Their damage mitigation is awesome and their stuns are incredible because you can reapply them so quickly.
Ret paladin killing is the same as it was for most classes before. Keep your distance, kite them around and for the love of god, stay away from them when they've got a bubble and wings out. Or, if you're a mage, laugh at them and spellsteal the wings and arcane barrage them for 6k and giggle when they die. |
|
DarkspiteAzgalor
@medtronic.com
| reply to SSX4life
Dismantling (disarm) usually gets met with some sort of CC to wait out the effect (HoJ, Rep). Admittedly, I haven't been arenaing since the patch - I figured everything would be skewed. But it would be nice to use dismantle while the Pally's CCs are on cooldown. |
|
brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to SSX4life
As a pvp resto druid turned boomkin after the patch (in preparation for having to level more than anything), me and my destro lock partner have been trying to do arenas for the past 2 weeks since the patch. Lag is still ridiculously horrible on my server...we don't even try to CC currently because the 1.2 second casts become 4-5 second casts and are always interrupted. When the lag goes down, we're going to have a lot more fun.
We've fought plenty of double ret and ret/dps teams. Even without CC, we're learning how to effectively handle them, and we're winning about 50% of our matches against them. Once the lag goes down and we can start cyclone/fear rotations, we're expecting that we'll destroy ret teams. This is at around the 1800s.
As a resto druid who had to deal with people whining constantly about our "OPness," I say hats off to the ret pallies, and if they aren't nerfed at all, I wouldn't mind. I don't think they're overpowered, I just think people haven't figured out how to fight them yet (loltrinketing repentance). Yep, all of you people saying "no one except ret pallies are saying they're not OP" will have to stop using that one now. |
|
Kevlar
Kevlar
join:2008-02-19
Spartanburg, SC
| reply to SSX4life
A good ret paladin is fearsome. A bad (ly geared)one is a free HK.
Fixd.
As I said I have had pallies since around release and know ret pretty well inside and out. Went into bgs at the patch after hearing the new "op ness". Depending on class, gear that I ran into I either got obliterated before I could even see what was going on (geared rogue from stealth, geared mage of any spec)
The fun part was when I DID happen to run into someone of equally poor gear I seemed to do much better with this new burst (something I personally feel that we have been lacking since waaaay back in the pre Reckoning nerf days)
Also loving the new actual damage I seem to be able to do on my tankadin with the insta cast Avengers and instacast HoW. (for instance that rogue I dueled that was sprinting away if it had been the old 1.4 sec wrath or god forbig the original wrath cast time he would have just forfeited and cheated me of some sweet night elf blood).
P.S. for those of you not familiar with beta [play if you think the new Ret pallies are OP get ready for more tears when you see Blood spec DKS with some resilience on the battlefield. |
|
Lledwyn
@twinfallstitle.com
| said by Kevlar :P.S. for those of you not familiar with beta [play if you think the new Ret pallies are OP get ready for more tears when you see Blood spec DKS with some resilience on the battlefield. I've heard some amazing things about DKs in PvP once you get used to the mechanics and the class. Do you have a Blood Specced one with resil gear? |
|
dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to Lledwyn
said by Lledwyn :
People are running around with L80 talent abilities right now. Blizzard changed the entire way that gear is itemized and spell damage/healing is handled. The spell coefficients have all changed. Wow pre 3.0 is NOT the game it was. I keep seeing Rets making this argument and it's absurd. No one is getting level 80 talent abilities right now. If it's available at level 70, it is by definition a level 70 talent. If it's a level 80 talent, you can't obtain it before level 80. |
|
Tehuno
join:2005-01-18
Bartlesville, OK
| reply to Archivis
said by Archivis :said by DarkspiteAzgalor :Thanks for the tips Archivis. Shray, despite the caps you have some good points as well. If a pally gets me out of stealth in a bg since I've usually just killed something else, I'll just take the HoJ stun up the rear and wait for rez Which is probably what any other class thinks when they a rogue surprises them I guess I understand now why other classes hate us so much. Against a paladin, you always use the trinket on the hammer. They've got one other stun, repentence, which is like your blind. Very few paladins these days seem to treat that like rogues treat blind, as a method to tie up a partner. They like to use it as a distance closer, because they don't have the kind of poisons to keep a person slowed down. I've not seen how disarm works against a ret paladin, if that's possible at all, but it would wreck us if it did. Evasion isn't that great either... but maybe cloak + evasion would nullify all physical and spell damage. Not sure about that myself. I've been using Seal of Command in PVP lately. I think I may switch to Seal of Corruption so the damage ticks can keep going. On top of that, I've got the exalted BT trinket that puts an additional DoT on. It may screw rogues up who decide to vanish or re-stealth or whatever without using cloak first (I don't think many rogues think to cloak against a paladin). Seal of command is a guaranteed crit, and ignores all armor, would be a mistake to use anything but in pvp.
yes disarm works pretty well, just have to make sure you use it from behind or stun 1st before you use it(shockwave ftw!) |
|
