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JOESTRITA1975

@comcast.net

magicjack is a RIPOFF

I BOUGHT THIS THING CAUZ I THOUGHT I WAS FOR UNLIMITED USE LOCAL AND LONG DISATNCE. BOOM NOT MAGICJACK SHUT DOWN MY UNIT FROM MAKING OUTGOING CALLS BECAUSE THEY SAID I USED IT EXCESSIVELY. MEANING TOO MUCH. NOW THEY WANNA SELL ME LONG DISTANCE FOR 1CENT A MINUTE. THERE ADD SAYS MAKE FREE CALLS. NEVER PAY A PHONE BILL AGAIN! SURE ITS NICE BUT THEY REALLY DONT WANT YOU TO USE IT. SO IM GONNA HAVE TO SWITCH TO VONAGE SO I WARN YOU IF YOU LIKE TO TALK ON THE PHONE ALOT BE WARNED U COULD BE THE NEXT MAGICJACK VICTIM


laserjobs
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Las Vegas, NV
There were a few other reports this week of the same thing you mention. Hopefully magicJack will give us a bit better clue of what the triggers are.
»www.magicjacksupport.com/i-canno···288.html

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

1 edit
said by laserjobs:

There were a few other reports this week of the same thing you mention.
It's strange this just started. I wonder if this could mean MJ is having trouble with their business model? (Oversold services, trouble expanding capacity, pick off the heavier users?).

Personally, I never believe "unlimited" means unlimited. It doesn't shock me MJ would have a limit. But, like you said, it should be published.

Mark


prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
reply to JOESTRITA1975
It would appears they want to "pick off" (as a previous poster stated) the heavy users. I am surprised since their web pages does plainly state unlimited usage. However, we have seen other VOIP providers claim unlimited usage when they actually cap it. I've pretty much said all along MJ should allow lower bandwidth (like g729) calls and should allow desktop adapter use. Now I'll add a 3rd thing they should consider: publishing how many minutes constitute "excessive" usage. Too many people have posted comments about ditching their VOIP or landline for MJ. If MJ is going to cap minutes, people need to know what the cap is before they use MJ as their primary phone service.

However, for those of us who don't near the magical "excessive" minutes, MJ is still a reliably good VOIP bargain.

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

2 edits
said by prestonlewis:

MJ should allow lower bandwidth (like g729) calls.
It would be nice if the amount of compression was selectable (1x to 4x = 64k to 8k). People with high-performance systems could be more aggressive. Also those of us who go into Task Manager and set the priority to High for the magicjack.exe process.

I wish some of these people (terminated for excessive use) would say what their usage was. The cynic in me believes they must've been doing something unusual. (Like, using MJ in a group house with 20 pre-release ex cons, all calling their sweethearts from one "community" phone.).

Mark


BlueMagic

join:2008-03-30
Riverside, IL
reply to JOESTRITA1975
How many minutes were you using on average prior to receiving the notification that you were using magicJack excessively?

I have used magicJack since my beloved SunRocket bit the bullet and in general have been very satisfied.

On the other hand if this is the beginning of the end and they ask me to pay an additional 1 cent per minute, I will switch over to Skype.

C'est la Vie.


KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2
Seems MJ is just following the cable and telco lead: capping bandwidth.

I assume excessive usage is the totality of time on the phone? It's not just long distance calls is it? I hope it only applies to LD but I am doubting it since bandwidth is bandwidth. Can anyone confirm?

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms

1 edit
reply to JOESTRITA1975
Pretty much all VoIP plans are subject to caps on the minutes. And yes, they should be much more clear about it.

MagicJack says: "If magicJack sees excessive use or systematic or intentional misuse, it reserves the right, in our sole discretion, to terminate your use of the magicJack device and/or Software immediately, and you will not be entitled to get a refund of any licensing fee or any other fee you may have paid to us".
»www.magicjack.com/tos

You say you are going to Vonage. Well, Vonage says on their website, in the fine, fine print:
"all plans are subject to reasonable residential usage limitations"

Joe, by the way, in case no one ever told you, FOLKS GET REALLY IRRITATED WHEN SOMEONE TYPES IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.

GOOD LUCK JOE.

BruceN
Hi

join:2006-11-17
Roswell, GA
reply to JOESTRITA1975
Being that I am in the industry (Head latrine orderly at VoiceStick) I would like to comment.

We avoid the use of the word unlimited as NO ONE has unlimited. What I think they all mean is unlimited for a normal residential family.

AT&T, ViaTalk, and many other do publish the trigger number.

We allow 3500 minutes which seems to never be a problem except for commercial users that sign up. With those guys they burn up 3500 minutes in a matter of a week or two.

If the industry allowed this sort of use, then everyone would pay more.

I see caps with other companies running right around the 3000 mark.

I have had a couple abusers (yes they talk to me) tell me that MJ is well below this amount. But heck you are not paying much and trust me 1 cent a minute for overage would be a deal. But not a deal if you say did not get at least 1000 minutes in the plan.

MJ has the same economics that we all have. Terminating costs real money. CLEC inbound does not cover out bound. Worse the CLEC money will probably go away soon.

As to Vonage, the too have a cap. I know that for sure! We do a lot of port ins from them.

rickbarnett

join:2005-09-24
Alexandria, VA
said by BruceN:

Being that I am in the industry (Head latrine orderly at VoiceStick) I would like to comment.
So glad to hear of your promotion. It's wonderful your talents have finally been appreciated


pat2008

@dsl.bell.ca
reply to JOESTRITA1975
Thought i'd post this. After reading this post i thought
hey, lets contact them and ask this question myself, but
it's a known fact they cut you if you talk "a lot" but theres nothing that defines "a lot".

It's long i know but shows how sneeky they are being. A
customer service agent will not tell me anything except
direct me to a terms of service.

Glad i didn't purchase and i'll be passing this info along
to few co-workers interested in buying also

Please wait for a site operator to respond.

You are now chatting with 'Lanette'

Lanette: Hello, how may I help you?

PATRICK: Hello

PATRICK: I'd like to know before i make a purchase if this service is truely unlimited or is there a cap?

Lanette: Yes Patrick?

Lanette: May I know what is your concern please?

PATRICK: I've been torn for the last few weeks and would like to purchase but need to know this

Lanette: Yes it is Patrick, you can call anytime you want without limit time....

PATRICK: so why is it i am reading on many support forums that magicjack is limiting users? They get a notice when trying to dial out to call a number for an inportant update and their accounts have been capped

Lanette: Thank you for your patience. I will transfer you to a higher level of support. Please hold while I transfer you.

Please wait while I transfer the chat to the best suited site operator.

You are now chatting with 'Melly'

Melly: Hi there! Please give me a few moments to review your previous chats. Thank you.

PATRICK: no problem

Melly: Okay.

Melly: Thank you for waiting.

Melly: You can make FREE calls with magicjack Patrick.

PATRICK: that doesn't address my question

Melly: Please visit www.magicjack.com/tos to view the Terms And Conditions of the Magicjack.

PATRICK: so you cannot answer this for me?

PATRICK: because i'd like for someone to define "excessive" use

Melly: Please check the Section 4 and Section 6.

PATRICK: as many complain they do not use it "excessively"

Melly: Please check the Section 4 and Section 6.

PATRICK: i'm talking with customer service correct?

Melly: Yes.

PATRICK: so i have asked twice and im directed to a legal document rather then a customer service agent answering my question

Melly: You can make FREE calls.

Melly: Only Free calls.

PATRICK: free? $39.99 includes first year service... it's $19.99 each year after, this isn't FREE. It also doesn't again address my question about is the service truely unlimited or to define excessive use

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
said by pat2008 :

Thought i'd post this.
I'm not fond of "dead chat." But, your posting doesn't prove much. It just means they don't know what the "policy" is either. I doubt they're being "sneaky." They just don't know.

I bet these folks have never even used MJ. Aren't they with "liveperson.net?" They serve many other companies, like Charles Schwab. They're probably carrying on a dozen different chat sessions at the same time, from auto warranties to brokerage account questions. They probably get a nickle per question. Which explains why MJ costs $20 per year instead of $19 per year.

Mark


pat2008

@dsl.bell.ca
what would costing 20 instead of 19 have todo with it? Liveperson or not, it shows a company that lacks the proper ability to create a decent customer service environment.

They don't explain up front the "limitations" and i just added to the lack of "expertise" offered by a liveperson from the site.

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
said by pat2008 :

They don't explain up front the "limitations"
I agree. But, that's not the outsourced, offshored support group's fault. It's probably not been explained to them either.

Mark

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to amigo_boy
I agree fully that these customer reps shouldn't be blamed.

But it is unfortunate that the company itself won't state things clearly. This way sounds better for advertising, though.

Undoubtedly there is a "secret" number, just as some ISP's are capping their highest users.

Reminds one of this: When he was forced to define obscenity, Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famously remarked, "I know it when I see it."

And also reminds one of Montana, which for a few years did not post a numerical speed limit for cars on the highway, but rather said "Reasonable and Prudent"....as decided by the state trooper.

»www.us-highways.com/montana/mtspeed.htm


prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
reply to JOESTRITA1975
Somewhere along the way, logic must prevail. Sure, it would be nice if MJ posted how many minutes are too many under their "unlimited" plan. Other VOIP providers use 3,000 to 5,000 minutes as a cap for their unlimited service. However, the other VOIP providers also are charging about 10-20 times what MJ charges. So let's say charitably that you use under 2,000 minutes a month and MJ doesn't pull the plug on you. I'd say that's reasonable considering the price of MJ compared to other VOIP providers.

"Victim", as used by the OP, seems awfully strong language when you're only paying a couple of bucks a month for the MJ service. Even if you were capped at 1,000 minutes it's still a good deal.

Perhaps the OP, who is strangely anonymous, is just upset that for $2/month he can't have unlimited minutes and is venting his outrage and anger over such a travesty? Perhaps Joe would be happier if he switched to another VOIP provider and paid $25 for 3,000 unlimited capped minutes. Not a very good deal imho.

Yes, I am grumpy today. Had to put the car in the shop and my kids are irritating me no end.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
said by prestonlewis:

Other VOIP providers use 3,000 to 5,000 minutes as a cap for their unlimited service. However, the other VOIP providers also are charging about 10-20 times what MJ charges. So let's say charitably that you use under 2,000 minutes a month and MJ doesn't pull the plug on you. I'd say that's reasonable considering the price of MJ compared to other VOIP providers.
This certainly makes good sense.


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to JOESTRITA1975
Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.

Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Charles'

Charles: Hello, how may I help you?

Chris: I see your service is advertised as Unlimited, then I see in the TOS about Excessive usage. I would like to know exactly how many minutes would be concidered excessive usage.

Charles: Thank you for your patience. I will transfer you to a higher level of support. Please hold while I transfer you.

Chat InformationPlease wait while I transfer the chat to the best suited site operator.

Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Paul'

Chris: Hello Paul.

Paul: Hello there. This is Paul. Your Higher Level of Support and I will be assisting you with your concern. Please do give me ample time to have a moment reviewing your chat session with the previous operator. Thank You.

Chris: Please give me a straight answer.

Paul: Thank you for patiently waiting Chris.

Paul: May I know where you have seen the advertisement of the Unlimited Calls?

Chris: television commercial for magic jack

Chris: Can you please just tell me straight out how many minutes used would be considered excessive? Give me a straight answer without any run-around.

Chris: A simple number is all I ask.

Paul: Chris, they are the resellers of magicJack. As what you have read on our Terms of Services, we only have FREE Calls and Not Unlimited Calls. We do not have the information of the exact limit of the duration of your call. It will just notify your magicJack once it has passed the limit of Free Calls.

Chris: ok.

Chris: Thank You
--
»KmanScooters.com Home of Wisconsin's Most Affordable Cars, Motorcycles and Scooters


rhymemaze

join:2005-03-10
Upper Marlboro, MD
said by Anonuser:

...

Paul: May I know where you have seen the advertisement of the Unlimited Calls?

Chris: television commercial for magic jack

Chris: Can you please just tell me straight out how many minutes used would be considered excessive? Give me a straight answer without any run-around.

Chris: A simple number is all I ask.

Paul: Chris, they are the resellers of magicJack. As what you have read on our Terms of Services, we only have FREE Calls and Not Unlimited Calls. We do not have the information of the exact limit of the duration of your call. It will just notify your magicJack once it has passed the limit of Free Calls.

Chris: ok.

Chris: Thank You
It sure seems hard to get any information. I've been thinking about this service ever since the Rocket crashed and burned. While I am not too concerned about overusing the service if I ever sign up, their answers are odd. Maybe they will start inserting ads into your phone calls for every 5 minutes of talk time.


swanboy

join:2001-01-22
Hollywood, FL
Reviews:
·magicjack.com
·ooma
The funny thing is that its not the reseller that put that commercial on TV. That is MJ that has those infomercials, and it definitely states unlimited.

Having said that, "unlimited" is always limited. Cell phone data plans, ISPs, etc all state the services are unlimited but also have caps on minute usage. If you're using your MJ in excess of 5000 minutes per month, its probably going to catch their attention.

This seems like a decent limit to me.


SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL
reply to JOESTRITA1975
Well Joe doesn't seem to want to say anymore. I'm wondering if those complaining might be using them for things like telemarketing? That might get you capped real fast when FTC & FCC complaints start to show up.

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

2 edits
reply to swanboy
said by swanboy:

If you're using your MJ in excess of 5000 minutes per month, its probably going to catch their attention. This seems like a decent limit to me.
It sounds like that may be optimistic. This guy said the industry average is around 3000, and he heard MJ is well below that.[1]

Someone else reported they used 8100 minutes the first month, then 3150 the next month.[2]

Someone else reported they used 2700 minutes per month. But, used 3100 minutes over two days due to an unusual work-related event.[3]

FWIW: That last person eventually found out that you can purchase international minutes at your my.magicjack.com page, and MJ will let you continue to make outgoing calls at 0.01 per minute.[4]

That's not a bad deal. But, as he points out, if you use 2000 minutes per month, you're better off buying a new MJ. Which just goes to show that, as unpleasant (or unprofessional) MJ may be handling this condition (just shutting off users without warning), the people being shut down didn't lose money.

[1] »Re: magicjack is a RIPOFF
[2] »www.magicjacksupport.com/post235···ml#23510
[3] »www.magicjacksupport.com/post239···ml#23947
[4] »www.magicjacksupport.com/post245···ml#24507

Mark

AJICQ499087

join:2001-12-01
Louisville, KY
reply to JOESTRITA1975
I had no idea there is some unstated usage cap with magicJack. I have 4 Jacks and use them a lot. I guess spreading the calls over 4 different Jacks is what is saving me. I call some people that also have magicJack numbers. I wonder if they count against some unknown cap limit? Do incoming calls apply to some unknown cap?

magicJack should just be honest and tell us what are the caps.
--
low cost and fast speed is what customers want in broadband

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

3 edits
said by AJICQ499087:

I had no idea there is some unstated usage cap with magicJack. I have 4 Jacks and use them a lot. I guess spreading the calls over 4 different Jacks is what is saving me.
One ding-a-ling filed a "ripoff" report because her service was terminated. She said she was using it for telemarketing, making 200 calls per day:

»www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/3···4639.htm

It's unbelievable how someone can complain about a $3 per-month service when their usage would have cost $120 to $240 a month with other VOIP services. If she was smart (like you), she'd buy 10 MJs for $400, and put 20 calls per day on each one. That would cost her a whopping $30 per month. After the first year it would only cost $15 per month.

I agree that MJ's limits should be better defined, with warnings and usage indicators. But, at $1.60 per month, it seems like straining at a gnat. If I were Dan, I'd be wondering why the heck I got into this low-end business (when people expend so much energy over $1.60 per month, or expect so much for so little.). Do these people go to all-you-can-eat buffets and complain that they can't fill their car with food because "you never said *where* I have to eat it?"

Mark


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
said by amigo_boy:

I agree that MJ's limits should be better defined, with warnings and usage indicators. But, at $1.60 per month, it seems like straining at a gnat. If I were Dan, I'd be wondering why the heck I got into this low-end business (when people expend so much energy over $1.60 per month, or expect so much for so little.).

Do these people go to all-you-can-eat buffets and complain that they can't fill their car with food because "you never said *where* I have to eat it?"
Mark, I love your sense of humor -- and you've hit the nail squarely on it's head!
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


pat2008

@dsl.bell.ca
reply to amigo_boy
I wouldn't call her some "ding-a-ling" for being upset for what would in my eyes and many others considered false advertising. If i buy a service, product or anything (no matter if its $0.50 to $39.95) i expect to get what im paying you for.

Just because its a cheap service doesn't make it right. You mayt it seem becaue its a $3 stfu and get over it.

Thats not how it is, and people need to get this through their heads that when a company (business) advertising UNLIMITED"

Meaning of Unlimited:
[adjective]
1. not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2. boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3. without any qualification or exception; unconditional.

If i pay you ANY amount of money for a service of which you tell me is all the above i expect to get what i purchased. Plain, simple, no arguement needed from anyone. I find it frustrating that people think just because a service is cheap we don't have a right to complain.

We all work hard for our money and being lied to to be sold is not fun and if you feel "privileged" to have such a cheap service then good for you, i bet people like this don't also mind getting throttled internet (also not getting what they paid for)

You advertise fuel @ x.xx amount i expect to get what i pay if i want to fill my tank, don't limit me because i drive to much for work.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
I don't know how to edit my post but the following quote below was meant to be

"You mayt it seem becaue its a $3 stfu and get over it."

was supposed to say

"You make it seem because it's a $3 service stfu and get over it"

Not sure what my fingers where trying to say

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

4 edits
reply to pat2008
said by Tx:

If i pay you ANY amount of money for a service of which you tell me is all the above i expect to get what i purchased.
I think that's the problem. MJ never (to my knowledge) uses the word "unlimited." They say things like "call your friends, talk as long as you want, for $19.99."

Successful advertising helps people hear what they want to hear. But, nothing in that sentence literally says "unlimited." For example, it doesn't say how often you can call your friends. And, it doesn't say you can call 200 strangers (every day, racking up 12000 minutes per month).

But, the bottom line is: customers are required to agree to the ToS (which says MJ may terminate for "excessive use"). They are given 30 days to return it if they don't agree. Anyone who felt they'd been lied to should have voiced that concern at that point -- not 6000-calls-per-month later.

You said people should expect to get what they paid for. That telemarketer did. In just one or two days of use she got her money's worth (considering vbuzzer, Skype or voipvoip would have charged anywhere between $120 to $240 per month for that kind of usage.).

There has to be some expectation of reasonableness. When 1) the ToS (which you're required to read and accept prior to use) says they can terminate you for excessive use. And, 2) the price of service is 1/100th that of competitors. And, 3) the product is sold through infomercial-style advertising, it should cause anyone to be a bit critical of what they're hearing.

I'm sympathetic to those who fall on the cusp (terminated after a few months of 2000-2500 minutes use?). But, even those people admit that buying a 2nd unit to spread usage across is a tremendous value compared to other services.

But a telemarketer, filing a "ripoff" report after 5 months (30,000 calls, and 60,000 minutes for $40)? That's crazy. Especially when the telemarketer had every opportunity to question the ToS and return the product on the very first day, if she felt she was being "ripped off."

Mark


RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO
reply to pat2008
said by Tx:

I find it frustrating that people think just because a service is cheap we don't have a right to complain.
you certainly have a right to complain, but it won't do you any good. there are plenty of industry precedents for the "understood" asterisk that "unlimited" has a limit. Even "all you can eat" restaurants mean all you can eat in one sitting, not all year long.

What I find curious is your selective indignation. Why are you singling out the usage caps to be upset about? Why aren't you upset at the advertising software that they are loading onto every PC that has connected a MJ regardless of account status, software that cannot easily be removed? Why aren't you upset that MJ is the only phone company in the world that does not have a phone number? Why aren't you upset that MJ is an internet marketing company that doesn't have an email address? Why aren't you upset the MJ fulfills its service through the US Mail, but itself does not have a street address?

It seems that, as you're concerned about the caps, that the device actually works for you. So you don't care about the software or the phone number or email and street addresses. You're only complaining about what is impacting you right now. As I've shown, there are other things to complain about. For your sake, I hope you don't have to complain about them, too.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
Agree with RockyBB's post.

As far as mailing address, this is obtainable from state tariff filings:

MagicJack
YMax Communications Corp.
5700 Georgia Avenue
PO Box 6785
West Palm Beach, FL 33405-6785

(Of course, they may have changed it by now).

Interesting link:

»uninstallmagicjack.com/