What's He Talking About? in

Re: What's He Talking About?

Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:35:29 EDT

Ahrenl : Sorry, misread your response. I thought I read "The answer there is pretty much everyone is sitting on an ARM." Missed the who.

That being said, I still don't think generalizations hold value. There are plenty of intelligent consumers. There are more dummies, but you can say that about everything.

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:18:40 EDT

KrK : Actually, if the providers didn't close their networks and limit and control handsets, phones would be dirt cheap.

Much like buying a wristwatch, for example. The market would be flooded with all kinds of handsets and you'd just pick one. This competition would make them cheap, too. However, the locked down, controlled market keeps them high.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:43:57 EDT

anon : Complete utter horse$hit!

The telco's are experts at maintaining a public facade of an open free competitive market while simultanously spending billions behind the scenes lobbying for laws that do just the opposite and putting small upstarts out of business.

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:01:35 EDT

Combat Chuck : I'm sorry, at what point does %40 not signify a large number. That also doesn't account for the number of people given good advice by their brokers, but that still relied solely on their brokers for advice.

I'm sorry I didn't give you a 150 page report on the issue but you'll understand that I'm a little strapped for time here.

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:08:38 EDT

Ahrenl : Agreed. In fact it could be argued that NOT getting a subsidized phone is foolish as you're paying the subsidy anyway, so you're effectively paying twice for your phone.

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:05:31 EDT

Ahrenl : Around 60% of the US mortgage market are fixed rate, this being the only fact you supplied, I'll surmise the accuracy of the rest of your ancedotal comments.

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:50:02 EDT

Combat Chuck :

said by keyboard5684 :

I think shoppers are more aware, now, about what plans they are buying into than the phones and accessories.

Yes, but they still won't pay what the phone is worth to get higher level of service, they still go with the provider with the lowest upfront cost (without regard to actual to incidentals), and they still bitch when the bill comes due.

Consumers have removed their brains from the actual part of purchasing stuff. They want someone else to tell them what is a good value, and what it comes down to is that someone else is the Verizon rep they buy their phone from because they can't be bothered to actually look for themselves. Why the hell do you think the US economy is the way it is, how many people relied on a mortgage broker to give them advice on the loan that that broker stood to make money from? The answer there is pretty much everyone who is sitting on an ARM.
--
The world’s elusive, remember
where love's the leaf
faith, the river
what's born as flame dies in ember
see for yourself!

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:12:19 EDT

touchtone561 : I agree somewhat. But the business models of AT&T and T-Mobile do not reward you from BYOD "Bring your own device" :o

So although we can buy our own GSM/UMTS devices we still pay a subsidy surcharge in the service plans to run those devices at their full capacity / capabilities. Since the typical phone lasts 18 - 24 months, what is the benefit for the average user to buy them outright?

Now if there was a BYOD discount then... ;)

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:32:30 EDT

wifi4milez :

said by pnh102 :

said by nasadude :

"...reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system ...up until earlier this year."

This year?

I've been swapping out cell phones with AT&T ever since I got my first GSM handset back in 2002. I've used a few different unlocked phones, as well as locked phones that I bought from AT&T that I later unlocked.

I understand that this kind of choice may not work with Sprint, Verizon or Alltel, but I don't think most people really care about this non-issue. Every carrier offers many different kinds of phones at all price points. Couple that with the fact that most people are probably more interested in any carrier that has good service where they use their phones the most and I think the original complaint about a "lack of choice" is really more of a non-issue than anything else.

I really find it hard to fault a system that allows you to get a phone for literally nothing while simply paying for basic monthly service.

I agree. People quickly forget that the reason 99% of wireless customers are locked into contracts or devices is because they want them for nothing. If you want an unlocked phone you can take with you and use around the world you need to pay full price for it. I have been paying up to $1000 for phones for years, and this gives me the flexibility to what I please with them. Look at it another way:

"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY (OR DONT PAY) FOR"
--
Комитет государственной безопасности

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:27:42 EDT

keyboard5684 : Of course you would ask the guy robbing your house on the best security system, who is going to know best?

I think shoppers are more aware, now, about what plans they are buying into than the phones and accessories. I disagree with you because by now every single one of us has in one way or another been raped by a "plan" that was supposed to save us money.

You say "both sellers and buyers to think about how they interact with the market" yet the buyer is going for just that, the bare minimum and the seller is going for the maximum. It is working how it is supposed to.

Your post almost sounds like an angry cell shop worker.

The point made is that this is not what was envisioned, this was not the plan, this was not what they wanted when they invented and released it.

We need to get away from this phone companies owning the phone. We need to get away from carriers charging so much for things like texting (I mean $10 a month for 300 messages?).

It ALL looks exactly like the AT&T bell system that was back in the day where the telephone company owned everything.

What will happen, is the same thing... revolution. VOIP in my mind is a small revolution and it will get far worse. People, when free, will break out of these locked in BS and go free.

Example, In my area it is very "hilly", the terrain is rough. Someone on top of what most would call a mountain (we call a hill), puts up a nice WIFI system ONLY for VOIP over WIFI systems. BAM, free calls (except the $4.95 to the VOIP provider and $30 per month to the bandwidth provider, no not verizon or any of those). Limited coverage but it is a start.

People want free... of course they do. But this is where both sides, the buyer and the seller, have to come together or the buyer will break away and the SELLER LOSES.

No one intended it to get this way, it did. Now something needs to happen before we see a cell bubble pop.

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:46:02 EDT

pnh102 :

said by nasadude :

"...reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system ...up until earlier this year."

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:39:32 EDT

nasadude :

said by pnh102 :

quote:
Cooper calls the locked down handset and closed network models of today's carriers reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system in the 1950's.

If that's true then why is it possible to bring your own unlocked GSM/EDGE (3G if you know what you are doing) handset to either AT&T or T-Mobile?

OK,how about this:

"...reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system ...up until earlier this year."

Re: What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:30:03 EDT

Combat Chuck : The problem has little to do with carriers, it has everything to do with people only valuing initial price when they shop for everything. People want a free handset, free talktime and all this other stuff, they don't care about anything else...that is until after they buy into a plan and then they bitch about everything else.

The problem with the free market is that it requires both sellers and buyers to think about how they interact with the market compare alternatives and then act in their best interest. The sellers are doing that, the buyers aren't doing anything but the bare minimum, they want the sellers to do the work for them to act in the buyers best interest which makes absolutely no sense (would you ask the guy robbing your house for recommendations of security systems).

Devo wrote a song about it:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9hpMgKI_NU
"Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want"
--
The world’s elusive, remember
where love's the leaf
faith, the river
what's born as flame dies in ember
see for yourself!

What's He Talking About?

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:12:33 EDT

pnh102 :

quote:
Cooper calls the locked down handset and closed network models of today's carriers reminiscent of AT&T's control of the landline system in the 1950's.

If that's true then why is it possible to bring your own unlocked GSM/EDGE (3G if you know what you are doing) handset to either AT&T or T-Mobile?
--
"At the moment of conception."