PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
 ·CableOne
| reply to RockyBB
Re: [Femtocell] The Beginning of the End of Residential VOIP
said by RockyBB  :said by Maxo :I have thought this for a long time. Have the phone simply connect to a wireless network, it automatically makes a SIP connection to the provider (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, whomever) and viola, cell service anywhere you have access to a wireless connection. that would not work in a moving car, or when walking through the shopping mall. That's funny, it works fine on my T-Mobile Blackberry Curve. When it loses wifi signal, it simply switches back to GSM. And although on the early T-mobile UMA phones battery drain was horrible, the battery on my Curve lasts me 3 days with light use or 1 day with heavy voice use. |
|
pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
 ·ooma
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Comcast
|  reply to nitzan
said by nitzan :Granted I am a bit ignorant about the technology, but something that doesn't add up in my mind is the assumption that every family has an internet connection adequate enough to transmit multiple voice streams at once. Let's face it- most "broadband" users these days are still on 768/128 packages or something similar - whatever they can get cheapest from their ISP. Even with compression I don't see that kind of connection passing along more than a couple of calls at a time with good quality. And that's not even taking into effect regular internet usage (read: youtube) by other family members. I'm familiar as a former customer with the basic AT&T DSL service (known as DSL express) it is 1.5mb down and 384kb up via PPPoE. I was on it when first using Future-Nine, and with other PC's in my home occasionally VOIP had small glitches. Shortly after getting my Future-Nine account, I moved us to Comcast HSI, the basic service is 6 mb down and 1 mb up. Comcast is in the process of doubling that to 12 mb down and 2 mb up for most customers in the next few months.
With 9 PC's and 5 active users, Future-Nine VOIP had occasional issues with AT&T's entry DSL solution, but is fine with Comcast even at their current offer of 6/1.
You are correct, that many broadband users could have issues with Femtocell, but at the same time, many won't.
Those that have issues with Femtocell, likely would have similar issues with VOIP.
At this time the appeal of Sprint's Femtocell will be for customers who use Vonage, CallVantage, even Comcast Digital Voice. As you indicate, the non-high end providers have no threat from this service.
Vonage should be concerned in my opinion. As this provides an affordable alternative from other well known phone service providers for many families. The pricing on the Sprint Femtocell makes most sense for a family plan IF the family makes or gets a lot of calls from home.
Sprint does not seem to advertise this capability at this time. I don't understand why they don't. Anyone who gets nominal reception and has broadband could benefit from it.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
|
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
1 edit | said by pandora :Sprint does not seem to advertise this capability at this time. I don't understand why they don't. Anyone who gets nominal reception and has broadband could benefit from it. Great analysis!
Regarding the advertising/promotion, Sprint does not have a lot of free cash right now, and the organization is in lots of turmoil. Was it a good or bad idea for Sprint to pick Nextel as a partner?
Hence: Not enough cash to advertise, organizational issues, choice of partner. Ironically sounds like one of the presidential candidates.....  |
|
usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs: | As long as Canada is excluded from regular calling ... not too helpful for me. |
|
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
| said by usa2k :As long as Canada is excluded from regular calling ... not too helpful for me. What provider(s) do you find best for making calls from the USA to Canada? |
|
usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs:
2 edits | No from a cell phone - and I only have one VoIP provider ATM.
EDIT:
Nextel on cell while over in Canada was $0.10/minute.
Now on Sprint, its $0.49/minute IIRC!
Same from USA with them. |
|
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| reply to RockyBB
I read a little more about it.. Sprint Airave pricing is:
Sprint AIRAVE Base Station - $99.99/each (requires activation at time of purchase and subscription to an AIRAVE plan. Excludes taxes.)
AIRAVE Enhanced Coverage Charge - $4.99/mo. (required per AIRAVE unit)**
Single Line Unlimited Calling Plan (optional) - $10/mo. per account**
Multi-Line (multiple phones sharing minutes on one account) Unlimited Calling Plan (optional) - $20/mo. per account** So in other words, you pay $100 for the "privilege" of saving them money, and what you get in return is an unlimited plan which costs around $30/month on top of your already-inflated cellular bill... ($5 "Ehanced Coverage Charge" + $20 Multi-Line unlimited plan + taxes and fees)
I take it back - even Vonage won't hurt much if cell carriers think they'll hit a home run with these prices.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation |
|
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Yeah exactly. Cell phone plans are very expensive. I don't know why this doesn't get more attention -- I think people are just resigned to it and used to it.
Cell phones have become essential for many (most?) people, but the service costs too much! I had really expected pricing to come way down by this point.
With a data plan, two phones, and moderate usage it's tough to get by for under $100 a month!
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
|
ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·VOIPo
·Metrocast Communic..
 ·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk
| said by B :Yeah exactly. Cell phone plans are very expensive. I don't know why this doesn't get more attention -- I think people are just resigned to it and used to it. Cell phones have become essential for many (most?) people, but the service costs too much! I had really expected pricing to come way down by this point. With a data plan, two phones, and moderate usage it's tough to get by for under $100 a month! -- B Isn't that the truth...
I have the AT&T Family plan 1400 minutes. The next plan down is 700 minutes which we usually hover around on normal usage. Now if I work from home for a few days in the month my usage will spike and burn through the rollover minutes. Iphone data plan, basic text messaging for the iphone and our bill is around $140/month. |
|
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| reply to B
said by B :Yeah exactly. Cell phone plans are very expensive. I don't know why this doesn't get more attention -- I think people are just resigned to it and used to it. Yep. Although I do get pissed off every month over and over again when I see my bill (not to mention the time they charged me $200 for 400 overage minutes - crazy!) - it's not like I have a choice. It's either pay up and deal with it - or don't have a cell phone. I need a cellphone. 
Cell phones have become essential for many (most?) people, but the service costs too much! I had really expected pricing to come way down by this point. Thing is, cell spectrum is so expensive that smaller companies stand absolutely no chance whatsoever in getting even a small piece. So what you've got is only a handful of companies completely dominating the market. Since it is a monopoly and there is no real competition - consumers pay the price.
IMHO the current system where the FCC sells spectrum to the highest bidder is twisted and prevents competition. These "auctions" all look the same - either AT&T or Verizon wins. Not only does it prevent competition because no new player has 20 billion to spend on a bunch of radio waves - it also means the winning party has to inflate their prices to cover the auction costs.
What would have worked and resulted in a fair competitive scene would have been some sort of spectrum management entity like ARIN (that manages IP addresses) which would splice up spectrum and assign it to carriers according to size. There really is no reason why airwaves should cost 20 billion - except for the whole range of pork and AT&T/VZ lobbyists.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation |
|
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| I use a prepaid phone. I don't use my cell phone that much, so it works out really well. I pay $30 every two or three months. Some months, like if I go out of town, I can blow through some minutes pretty fast, but overall it is cheaper than a regular plan. I have found that using my landline at home, and other's landline when I am at someone's house and then just tacking on a prepaid phone saves me a lot of money.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad |
|
chpalmer
join:2002-11-18
Belfair, WA
·wavebroadband
·VOIPo
| reply to nitzan
said by nitzan :IMHO the current system where the FCC sells spectrum to the highest bidder is twisted and prevents competition. These "auctions" all look the same - either AT&T or Verizon wins. Not only does it prevent competition because no new player has 20 billion to spend on a bunch of radio waves - it also means the winning party has to inflate their prices to cover the auction costs. What would have worked and resulted in a fair competitive scene would have been some sort of spectrum management entity like ARIN (that manages IP addresses) which would splice up spectrum and assign it to carriers according to size. There really is no reason why airwaves should cost 20 billion - except for the whole range of pork and AT&T/VZ lobbyists. This is a source of the money that's granted to state and local government for much of the new radio infrastructure. |
|
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| The argument could be made that the charge should be much MORE than 20 billion. It's like selling your soul or your first born -- you can only do it once.
Although in this case it's "selling off" that radio spectrum around us that the citizens, theoretically, own collectively. If people weren't so scared of ongoing government involvement in general perhaps some sort of spectrum leasing program could make portions temporarily available to small-time organizational use (or god forbid personal use) at reasonable rates. But I don't know much about how they do this now anyway...
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
|
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| reply to chpalmer
said by chpalmer :This is a source of the money that's granted to state and local government for much of the new radio infrastructure. No problem- state and local government should not be the ones deploying the infrastructure. I'm willing to be that if private companies were the ones deploying the infrastructure it would have cost half of what it does when the government is the one controlling the $. Can you say "let's hire my uncle and pay him 3 times what a private company would"? I'm sure it's not that obvious/blatant, but it sounds like a classic project for mass amounts of money to go into government hands only to disappear into private hands.
I know I know, next thing someone's gonna say is "but if private companies do it rural areas are not going to get infrastructure". True- but there's an easy solution for that too - just require a cell carrier who wants to do business in a state to deploy throughout the state and not just in metro areas.
Either way government is going to be involved of course, but I'd rather see government involved in telling the cell giants what to do rather than taking their money (or consumer money, really) and dividing it as they see fit.
As a side note.. I admit to ignorance about infrastructure costs - but I'm pretty sure that you don't need 20 billion to provide infrastructure to the entire US, could probably be done with a fraction of that. No? |
|
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28 | Huh? What does the cost of actual infrastructure have to do with the mostly arbitrary price auctioned for the spectrum rights?
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
|
chpalmer
join:2002-11-18
Belfair, WA
·wavebroadband
·VOIPo
| reply to nitzan
The current infrastructure for the mostpart is very outdated. Relying on cellular infrastructure would be disastrous when all hell breaks loose. Its pretty much designed to fail at that point.
There is no way that an outside resource can come into an area and tell them how to fix their issues if they havent been there to see them operate. Ive seem them try.
That said... Yes state and local do need to have a hand in deployment of their own systems. Just because of the fact that rural areas would be overlooked if they didnt. Too many opinions.
Im not saying I agree fully with how they are doing things with the grants and the auctions... Too many stipulations on what kinds of equipment must be bought. Maybe a good thing for interoperability but it seems to go to far.
Id like to see more local government allowed to use the actual tower real estate for their own infrastructure at greatly reduced cost. This does happen but its not automatic. But where would that end?
Infrastructure is expnsive. And your right. Its not all going to that. I believe its about 1/20th of it. |
|
espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to nitzan
said by nitzan :Yep. Although I do get pissed off every month over and over again when I see my bill (not to mention the time they charged me $200 for 400 overage minutes - crazy!) - it's not like I have a choice. It's either pay up and deal with it - or don't have a cell phone. I need a cellphone. $3.99 Vitelity unlimited DID + (Sprint to Home / T-Mobile My Faves / AllTel MyCircle) + cheap VoIP termination + DISA = problem solved. |
|
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| said by espaeth :said by nitzan :Yep. Although I do get pissed off every month over and over again when I see my bill (not to mention the time they charged me $200 for 400 overage minutes - crazy!) - it's not like I have a choice. It's either pay up and deal with it - or don't have a cell phone. I need a cellphone. $3.99 Vitelity unlimited DID + (Sprint to Home / T-Mobile My Faves / AllTel MyCircle) + cheap VoIP termination + DISA = problem solved. I'd go with a Future Nine DID myself, lol. 
But my problem is not overuse - it's underuse. I use around 100 minutes a month at most on average. The overage was caused by someone else (long story) and was a one-time thing.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation |
|
dcm
join:2008-09-12
Pennsylvania
3 edits | said by nitzan :But my problem is not overuse - it's underuse. I use around 100 minutes a month at most on average. The overage was caused by someone else (long story) and was a one-time thing. If you only use 100 minutes per month, you should not have a monthly plan. You should be on prepaid. 100 minutes would cost you no more than $10 per month.
Besides only paying for the minutes you use, there's no such thing as an overage charge.
I have 2 active pre-paid phones, Page Plus (uses Verizon) and T-Mobile, and spend $3.35 per month ($40 per year). Add in my 2 VoIP lines, VoiceStick and CallCentric/IPkall, and I'm up to $6.35 total. 
P.S. Before I wised up, I was paying $35 per month for 1 cell phone and $17 for barebones POTS. |
|
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
2 edits | reply to espaeth
said by espaeth :said by nitzan :Yep. Although I do get pissed off every month over and over again when I see my bill (not to mention the time they charged me $200 for 400 overage minutes - crazy!) - it's not like I have a choice. It's either pay up and deal with it - or don't have a cell phone. I need a cellphone. $3.99 Vitelity unlimited DID + (Sprint to Home / T-Mobile My Faves / AllTel MyCircle) + cheap VoIP termination + DISA = problem solved. Can we expand on that a little? Aside from it being clearly against the cell providers' terms of service, does this technically require a home PBX to do the DISA, or are there ATAs that allow it? (I'm guessing the former.)
Can the DISA feature be made transparent, or would it always involve, at minimum, waiting for the home line to answer and then pressing a # or quick key to transmit a passcode?
Secondly, I gather that the cell provider would have no idea the calls were being forwarded, but are there no limits (call duration, number of calls) for the various "faves" plans? I've never had or used such a plan.
Edit: However, the VoIP provider would know the calls were being forwarded, and might frown on it too, no?
And yeah, I guess this is off topic...
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function |
|
