Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to RockyBB
Re: [Femtocell] The Beginning of the End of Residential VOIP
My office remains tethered to POTS for two reasons:
1. Fax over VoIP is horribly unreliable.
2. Our fire alarm monitoring is also unreliable over VoIP.
As I understand it both are a result of VoIP signal sampling. Does Femtocell tech suffer the same sampling problem? It seems similar to VoIP to me, where the cell signal is sampled and converted to IP packets.
If we had a reliable fax option we can convert the monitoring to radio. Soooo...... fax seems to be the only concern. |
|
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
 ·ViaTalk
 ·Comcast
| Signal sampling is not the problem. It is jitter (packets arriving out of order) and packet loss that cause most problems with data over VoIP.
Femtocells inherently has the same problems. In fact I am willing to bet VoIP is more reliable in this area since you can at least tweak your adapter settings to compensate (example: »www.future-nine.com/faq/index.ph···tlang=en).
But overall- if you want business reliability - stay on POTS for your data purposes. Neither VoIP nor Femtocells is ready for prime time in this respect.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation |
|
RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to Millenniumle
said by Millenniumle  : a result of VoIP signal sampling. Does Femtocell tech suffer the same sampling problem? You got a bigger problem: there's no jack. It's wireless, for handheld phones that you talk into. For the same reason that anyone with a fax machine at home needs a POTS line for drama-free faxing, you would still need it if you're talking through a femtocell device, because the femtocell is for talking, as is VOIP. |
|
espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
 ·Embarq
| reply to Millenniumle
said by Millenniumle :If we had a reliable fax option we can convert the monitoring to radio. Soooo...... fax seems to be the only concern. Why not outsource the fax service?
They money you save over POTS would go a long way toward paying for a fax service like maxemail, trustfax, or efax.
Personally I pay $24/year to Maxemail and get all my incoming faxes as PDFs attached to email. Anything I need to fax out I just feed through the scanner and simply upload the PDF to be faxed through their service. |
|
Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| Thank you everyone for the info.
Thank you espaeth for the fax service info. I was not aware they even existed.  I feel as though I'm from within a box.
Our copier dupes as a scanner. As long as it can scan multiple pages like it can copy multiple pages it's a viable option. We have multi-page reports that are faxed between offices and it would be cumbersome to scan 30+ pages, one at a time. We'll need pdf software too.
Our single remaining pots line for fax and monitoring costs over $50 per month, including toll calls. Thank you again.
Have you found Maxemail to sell your fax number to junk faxers? Our local phone is terrible. Hook up a new line and within a week you're inundated. It's been a problem for the 20 years I've run offices in this town. Bastards cost a lot in toner and paper. Of course, in Maxemail's case it would be email instead of toner. |
|
voip_user
join:2006-06-14
Middletown, CT | reply to RockyBB
What about this service from T-mobile, if you already have a tmobile cell phone then this just another $10 add-on for unlimited minutes
»www.theonlyphoneyouneed.com/ |
|
RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
1 edit | reply to RockyBB
said by RockyBB :My opinion: Once in the hands of the marketing powerhouse of Verizon Wireless, the misunderstood femtocell will make residential VOIP (and POTS lines) unnecessary for a vast majority of the population. Now the real action begins! »Verizon Femtocells Arrive January 25
[EDIT] I just read through the "leaked" documentation cited in the link above, and it does NOT say that calls made through the femtocell won't count against the plan allowance -- which is different than Sprint's femtocell policy. We'll have to see what the official marketing policies look like. If Verizon Wireless is going to keep all the economic rent, then their market penetration with this product won't be so widespread as I predicted -- which might be the intent as they already have the market power in that industry. |
|
RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| The Verizon femtocell offer is now real. See »www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/stor···emtocell
But they won't be giving free minutes for calls through the device: All rates and policies associated with your chosen calling plan also apply when connected to the Network Extender. Interesting that they are forfeiting that differential advantage to Sprint and AT&T... |
|
rugby
I think I know it all.
VIP
join:2000-09-26
Camby, IN
1 edit | This just sounds silly, $250 for a device that doesn't actually save me any money? All it does is give me better reception in my house (or office)?
Am I missing something? |
|
druber
join:2000-04-11
Marlborough, MA
·VOIPo
| said by rugby :This just sounds silly, $250 for a device that doesn't actually save me any money? All it does is give me better reception in my house (or office)? Am I missing something? What you are missing is that there are a lot of people who have a broadband connection, but lousy (or no) cellphone service in their home. Whether this is enough to justify, who knows, but it's not preposterous... |
|
rugby
I think I know it all.
VIP
join:2000-09-26
Camby, IN
·Comcast
·Callcentric
| I agree that the technology is cool, but why make somebody pay to have their cellphones actually get reception? Seems like the provider ought to give these to people to stop them from leaving their service for another provider, not make them pay extra for them. |
|
RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| said by rugby :why make somebody pay to have their cellphones actually get reception? Seems like the provider ought to give these to people to stop them from leaving their service for another provider, not make them pay extra for them. VzW must have figured that anyone unhappy with in-home coverage has already left. So that concept is not in play. They are selling lots of benefits: free on-net calling, "best network," and all the rest ... network extender simply addresses that pesky in-home coverage problem for some customers.
As market leader, it seems like they are employing the old Harvard Business School life cycle pricing model ... introduce at a high price, wait until sales go down then lower the price, wait until sales go down again then sweeten the offer (free minutes?), then milk it as a cash cow.
Sprint, as not market leader, has to have some differential advantage to persuade retention and changeover, so they give free minutes.
If it were me, I would have given free minutes and clobbered Sprint and AT&T once and for all. |
|
burris
Premium
join:2000-08-22
Miami, FL
·VOIPo
·AT&T Southeast
·ViaTalk
| reply to rugby
said by rugby :I agree that the technology is cool, but why make somebody pay to have their cellphones actually get reception? Seems like the provider ought to give these to people to stop them from leaving their service for another provider, not make them pay extra for them. This is one of the best thoughts I have heard expressed on this subject..or any other business related issues, for that matter.. |
|
christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·Bresnan Online
·VOIPo
| reply to RockyBB
Except for the person who lives in the middle of BFE; where they get no cell coverage; I really can't see the use for FEMtocell. Especially if you have to pay $250 just to hook it up. Just don't see it. I live in one of those states that INVENTED BFE towns. Those who can't get cell coverage at home either have a POTS line or they use VOIP at home. Voip users tend to got with PAYG or low bandwidth providers like Packet8 or Vonage. Mentioning the dependability of their broadband is a non-player, because without it there's also no Femtocell.
I can see the service in High Rise bldgs or such where there's little cell coverage, but even then there are better ways to increase cell coverage. Again, I just don't get it. We have an office bldg where cell coverage is spotty. For the same $250-$300; an external antenna, 3 watt booster, and passive indoor antenna took care of coverage problems. And it did it without using bandwidth from the data network. office phones were POTS or Voip. This is obviously something the cell phone companies would like. It saves them money from installing additional towers. And for those in BFE I guess it's handy. But as a residential user it just seems a waste of money. Voip is better. For businesses, Femtocell is probably good for their customers. Assuming of course they have the right provider. later... mike... |
|
RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| said by christcorp :Especially if you have to pay $250 just to hook it up. Obviously, with a $250 price tag Verizon doesn't expect 100% mass acceptance. But if it was free and you got free minutes with it, then you would be way on the other side of the continuum. Several Sprint customers have reported they were able to chisel the price to free, and Sprint's policy is free minutes through their box. So with a free box and free minutes, is the technology more interesting? Wouldn't a good number of folks no longer see the need for land line or VOIP line? |
|
christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·Bresnan Online
·VOIPo
| Possibly. But what if you have cell coverage in your home? Does the Femtocell appear as a stronger signal that the cell phone will grab, or with the cell phone automatically grab it's HOME SIGNAL which they are designed to do. I.e. grabbing a home/provider tower before it grabs a roaming tower.
If they provided true free minutes, it might be fine. But even then I'm not to sure about it. What's the advantage to the cell company? The person isn't giving up their cell phones just because they have voip or POTS. If it's a marketing method to get people to give up their voip or pots, again, the cell phone company doesn't gain that many customers. Most people already have cell phones. And if the additional use minutes via Femtocell are free, then they aren't gaining any additional revenue. Again; for the person living in BFE without cell coverage; and they have to pay a lot for a POTS; I can see it. I can also see it for businesses, high rise bldgs, etc... to provide cell coverage for those doing business there. I just don't see it for a residential customer. But then again, a lot of consumers buy and use things that is a novelty or gadget and they don't mind spending money. later... mike.... |
|
RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| said by christcorp :What's the advantage to the cell company? cell phone management concentrate on two key metrics: average revenue per subscriber and churn. By placing this device inside a home, the carriers are betting that eliminating the in-home problem will make customers stickier, and reduce churn. Collecting a monthly fee (as Sprint does in most cases), increases average revenue. |
|
christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·Bresnan Online
·VOIPo
| reply to RockyBB
My question was somewhat rhetorical. I understand the business concept behind it. Just saying I don't agree with it. But the Ma'Bells and Cell Phone companies have shown that they have "SUCH GREAT BUSINESS" plans; so I guess people will continue to trust them. Oh well. It's not my money and I don't have to spend my money on it luckily. I doubt however; as the title states; that Voip is going to be heavily threatened by Femtocell. later... mike... |
|
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| Femtocell will not threaten, touch, impact, or otherwise be associated with VoIP. The wireless carriers are simply not interested in providing cheap access to their customers, so any way you slice it - femtocell will cost more than VoIP.
Not to mention the technology is useless to 90% of people. i.e. if you live in a metro area chances are you're already getting good signal. If you live in the middle of nowhere where there's no reception then having a cell phone is pretty much useless. At best you'd have a pay-as-you-go cell plan or something like that for when you go to town. Joe farmer is not going to buy a Verizon calling plan ($50+) just because he can now get reception at home (but nowhere else). He'd instead buy POTS or VoIP which cost less and sound better.
The whole technology seems more and more as a fad the clearer it gets. It benefits only the carriers, and there's really no incentive for users. They (carriers) should be paying the users to implement it - not the other way around.
As far as giving unlimited minutes and all that - again - their prices are still higher than VoIP, and will always be higher than VoIP. Verizon tops 'em all with not even providing additional minutes. |
|
christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
·Bresnan Online
·VOIPo
| I won't say that the technology is useless. To the 90%; I agree. But there are some; a particular technician that works for me; that lives just out of town. If his cell phone had coverage, he probably wouldn't even have a home phone. He has one in case he needs to make a call or someone needs to call him. He does however have wireless broadband. Such a device would allow him to have cell coverage at home. And for a 1 time charge of $250; with no additional charge other than using his existing cell plan minutes; he can have coverage. In turn, he can disconnect his Ma'bell phone and save $60 a month. (You pay more for POTS when you live outside of the "BASE RATE". I.e. The further away from town you live, the more you pay for. He did try voip for a while. It worked fine. But he was still paying $24 +/- a month. He still has his cell phone, and therefore, Femtocell lets hime save anywhere from $24-$60 depending.
But for the vast majority of residential customers, a $250 investment is a waste of money. They already have cell coverage; OR; in order to use their Cell phone as their SOLE SOURCE OF PHONE; would probably require them to change their cell plan to a HIGHER MINUTE plan to make up for the minutes they used on their POTS. Minimum upgrade in minutes is around $20 a month. You can get really good voip plans for that or less. Especially if you don't use much and go with a PAYG. later... mike.... |
|
