pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
 ·Comcast
·ooma
| reply to RockyBB
Re: [Femtocell] The Beginning of the End of Residential VOIP I'm considering a port to Sprint of 5 cell phone accounts on a family plan. Unlimited calling to and from home could be nice. As I read it, for more than one phone you pay $20 a month, plus a $5 a month fee.
That would make it $25 a month for 5 phones with unlimited calling to and from home, with up to 3 calls allowed concurrently active.
That has potential.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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 RockyBBPremium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO | said by pandora:Unlimited calling to and from home could be nice. Be careful ... calling "home" is a different concept with all cell with Airave and no POTS. There is no place to plug a phone into the Airave. It's a cellular repeater, not a VOIP ATA. You would have unlimited calling to any Sprint cell number anyway ... the Airave simply amplifies the signal in the home. So you wouldn't call "home" anymore, you would call the cell number of the family member you're looking for. |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
·ooma
| said by RockyBB:Be careful ... calling "home" is a different concept with all cell with Airave and no POTS. There is no place to plug a phone into the Airave. It's a cellular repeater, not a VOIP ATA. You would have unlimited calling to any Sprint cell number anyway ... the Airave simply amplifies the signal in the home. So you wouldn't call "home" anymore, you would call the cell number of the family member you're looking for. Not really. Calls going or coming would be free to the cell phones. Instead you pay a flat monthly charge of about $25 and provide broadband for it to do it's VOIP-like magic.
There are devices similar to an ATA for cell phones, which allow a cell phone, usually via Bluetooth to function as an ATA for analog service in a home.
Imagine your home phone network is energized by a Bluetooth to RJ11 device which is fed by your cellphone.
At that point, you get dial tone, and traditional phone service from a cell phone. The cell phone may have unlimited in and out calling via one of these devices for a fixed monthly price.
In my opinion this isn't the death of VOIP, just another form of VOIP, one that cell phone companies will control.
An example of the type of device I'm suggesting which converts RJ11 to Bluetooth is at - »www.amazon.com/dp/B000ZHS8ZW/ref···Code=asn
See also - »www.blueraven.com/us/Item/ItemDe···No=60875
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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RockyBBPremium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO | said by pandora:Imagine your home phone network is energized by a Bluetooth to RJ11 device which is fed by your cellphone. That's all good, but limited to proximity to the cell phone. If your wife is out shopping, and you call her number, it would ring where her phone is, not at your home. If no cell phones are at home, then you're simply ringing to the phones, not to the "home." Those type of "on-net" calls are free, anyway, you don't need the Airave for that. You need the Airave to amplify the signal in the home and to get free minutes for talking outside Sprint's subscriber base. It would be an interesting "add-on" for a non-portable ATA-type device ... though isn't that how T-Mobile does it? |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
·ooma
1 edit | It depends on how you approach it. If you want to dedicate a cell phone from a family plan to be your permanent home phone, nothing stops you.
At the same time, taking the home number with you when traveling could be a benefit for some.
This technology has potential to challenge traditional VOIP.
The Sprint cost for an extra line on a voice plan is $10, the cost for the device for one line per month is $15.
Would you pay $25 a month for unlimited phone service provided by a large national phone company? Some will, some won't.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | said by pandora:It depends on how you approach it. If you want to dedicate a cell phone from a family plan to be your permanent home phone, nothing stops you. At the same time, taking the home number with you when traveling could be a benefit for some. Dedicating one phone to be the "home phone" kinda defeats the purpose though, no? If today you can use POTS or VoIP with one base and 3,4 or even 8 handsets - in a cell-is-the-home-phone situation you're limited to one handset.
Taking the home phone with you is a great idea in theory - but what if you travel on business and your wife or roommates stay home? one of you gets the home phone - the other doesn't.
With VoIP it's possible (and easy) to take an ATA with you and ring both locations at the same time.
I think in a way if you want home phone service - femtocells is not going to work well. If you want personal service - i.e. each member of the family has their own phone and there is no centralized "home phone" - then femtocells will work.
But who knows.. maybe the boys up at VZ have already thought of these things and solutions to them. But then again- wouldn't this compete with their land line and VoIP business? 
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Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
·ooma
1 edit | You aren't limited to one handset if it is driving your home wired analog phones. That handset becomes your access point for the entire home.
Some cell phone companies will be concerned about the potential for this competing with land line business, others won't.
It seems as if $25-35 a month is the high price point for unlimited calling via VOIP or alternatives such as Femtocell.
In my case, I've got a nice price from Future-Nine and great VOIP service at a bit over $11 per month. That is tough to beat, even for Sprint.
Now, if I call Sprint retentions and complain about poor signal strength, and they offer me a free Femtocell ... that could change the game a bit.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | said by pandora:It seems as if $25-35 a month is the high price point for unlimited calling via VOIP or alternatives such as Femtocell. Vonage, Packet 8, and basically any VSP that's been concentrating on brand at higher prices is probably going to see some line loss out of this (although this by itself won't kill them).
Smaller providers are probably not going to be affected too much. BYOD crowd is not likely to throw away their adapters anytime soon, and like you said - even with femtocells it's hard to beat $11 a month. 
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Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation |
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2 edits | reply to RockyBB
said by RockyBB:said by pandora:Unlimited calling to and from home could be nice. Be careful ... calling "home" is a different concept with all cell with Airave and no POTS. There is no place to plug a phone into the Airave. It's a cellular repeater, not a VOIP ATA. You would have unlimited calling to any Sprint cell number anyway ... the Airave simply amplifies the signal in the home. So you wouldn't call "home" anymore, you would call the cell number of the family member you're looking for. It might be a little confusing to call these femtocell products "cellular repeaters". That suggests they simply re-transmit the strongest local cell inside your house. What they do is take the place of a larger outdoor cell site. The femtocell uses YOUR wired broadband connection to backhaul any phone registered to it. It doesn't 'repeat' anything.
Most people already have a usable cell signal in their house. Why would the spread of femtocells impact VoIP if the majority of users already COULD use their cellphone in their house. Femtocell technology is being pushed by the cellular providers because it's just another way to decrease the load on their network.
Of course, I'm sure they'll market it to the ignorant public in a much different way !
{edit for spelling}
{edit2 - not calling YOU ignorant Rocky...} |
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Reviews:
·VOIPo
| quote:
Most people already have a usable cell signal in their house..... Femtocell technology is being pushed by the cellular providers because it's just another way to decrease the load on their network.
Of course, I'm sure they'll market it to the ignorant public in a much different way !
Thats right!
There are allot of people that dont have good enough coverage and this will help them though. My office is a prime example. Cell site rental and buildout is expensive. Why wouldnt they do this? |
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | reply to jay_rm
said by jay_rm:The femtocell uses YOUR wired broadband connection to backhaul any phone registered to it. Granted I am a bit ignorant about the technology, but something that doesn't add up in my mind is the assumption that every family has an internet connection adequate enough to transmit multiple voice streams at once. Let's face it- most "broadband" users these days are still on 768/128 packages or something similar - whatever they can get cheapest from their ISP. Even with compression I don't see that kind of connection passing along more than a couple of calls at a time with good quality. And that's not even taking into effect regular internet usage (read: youtube) by other family members. |
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RockyBBPremium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO | reply to jay_rm
said by jay_rm:Why would the spread of femtocells impact VoIP if the majority of users already COULD use their cellphone in their house. By allowing free calling offnet through the device, with reduced chance of dropouts. Folks now are faced with "unlimited" calling from their "home" phone (VOIP or POTS) or cell minutes from the cell phone. Change that dynamic to unlimited cell minutes from home through the femtocell, and no one will make calls out from the "home" phone (other than international, conf calls, other niche types of calling). That's why I said the "home" phone then becomes answer only. Once the cell providers allow port-ins, allow more than one number to map to a single cell phone (much less a call director), and provide a portal, then it's over. IMO! |
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3 edits | reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:Granted I am a bit ignorant about the technology, but something that doesn't add up in my mind is the assumption that every family has an internet connection adequate enough to transmit multiple voice streams at once. A simple VOICE GSM data stream (T-Mobile, ATT, ect) uses about 10% the bandwidth of a typical VoIP call. The GSM codec is very streamlined and robust. A CDMA stream uses more bandwidth but still not very much. The problems start when one is using high bandwidth apps on your phone. But, even with 3G services, bandwidths are normally less then a few 100K - easily supported by many home connections.
Once again, it's simply a plot by the cellular providers to get YOUR traffic off THEIR network and dump it back on YOU |
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| reply to RockyBB
said by RockyBB:By allowing free calling offnet through the device, with reduced chance of dropouts. You are correct Rocky - I forgot about that part.
Since you are no longer using bandwidth on your cell providers network, from a technical standpoint they really wouldn't care how much you talked. Plus, they would be getting revenue (from your femtocell 'rental') from something they no longer had to provide (cellular bandwitdh). Wow !
I retract my statement - femtocells COULD have a significant impact on VoIP and POTS. |
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RockyBBPremium
join:2005-01-31
Steamboat Springs, CO | reply to jay_rm
said by jay_rm:it's simply a plot by the cellular providers to get YOUR traffic off THEIR network and dump it back on YOU Cell providers have only a few plots: 1) increase revenue per subscriber, 2) reduce churn, 3) keep operating and buildout costs under control. Assuming that the boxes work, and if the marketing guys sell it the right way, all plots will be successful. It's not a complete freebie, for them BTW. They still would have to pay offnet termination costs for calls off their network. |
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nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | said by RockyBB:They still would have to pay offnet termination costs for calls off their network. Yes, but they'd probably be able to pass those on as IP-originated which is a fraction of what they pay on their cell-originated offnet calls currently.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation |
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 tommy13vPremium
join:2002-02-15
Niskayuna NY | reply to pandora
I complained to retentions and received the equipment and service for free. They also threw in 3 months of unlimited calling, after that it would be just a repeater unless I wanted to pay $15 a month for service. |
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ke4pymPremium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC Reviews:
 ·Verizon Broadban..
·VOIPo
·RoadRunner Cable
·Northland Cable ..
·Packet8
| reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:Taking the home phone with you is a great idea in theory - but what if you travel on business and your wife or roommates stay home? one of you gets the home phone - the other doesn't. I do just that. I have configured my Packet8 account to ring my home phone and cell phone at the same time when someone dials my home phone number.
Works like a champ. Never miss calls.
And I agree that I think it's a little early to call the death of VoIP on this technology. After all, if the signal to this device sucks, it still is going to suck when you're using your phone. |
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pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
·ooma
| reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:Granted I am a bit ignorant about the technology, but something that doesn't add up in my mind is the assumption that every family has an internet connection adequate enough to transmit multiple voice streams at once. Let's face it- most "broadband" users these days are still on 768/128 packages or something similar - whatever they can get cheapest from their ISP. Even with compression I don't see that kind of connection passing along more than a couple of calls at a time with good quality. And that's not even taking into effect regular internet usage (read: youtube) by other family members. I'm familiar as a former customer with the basic AT&T DSL service (known as DSL express) it is 1.5mb down and 384kb up via PPPoE. I was on it when first using Future-Nine, and with other PC's in my home occasionally VOIP had small glitches. Shortly after getting my Future-Nine account, I moved us to Comcast HSI, the basic service is 6 mb down and 1 mb up. Comcast is in the process of doubling that to 12 mb down and 2 mb up for most customers in the next few months.
With 9 PC's and 5 active users, Future-Nine VOIP had occasional issues with AT&T's entry DSL solution, but is fine with Comcast even at their current offer of 6/1.
You are correct, that many broadband users could have issues with Femtocell, but at the same time, many won't.
Those that have issues with Femtocell, likely would have similar issues with VOIP.
At this time the appeal of Sprint's Femtocell will be for customers who use Vonage, CallVantage, even Comcast Digital Voice. As you indicate, the non-high end providers have no threat from this service.
Vonage should be concerned in my opinion. As this provides an affordable alternative from other well known phone service providers for many families. The pricing on the Sprint Femtocell makes most sense for a family plan IF the family makes or gets a lot of calls from home.
Sprint does not seem to advertise this capability at this time. I don't understand why they don't. Anyone who gets nominal reception and has broadband could benefit from it.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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PX EliezerPremium
join:2008-08-09
HuttRiver US
kudos:11 Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·Gizmo5
1 edit | said by pandora:Sprint does not seem to advertise this capability at this time. I don't understand why they don't. Anyone who gets nominal reception and has broadband could benefit from it. Great analysis!
Regarding the advertising/promotion, Sprint does not have a lot of free cash right now, and the organization is in lots of turmoil. Was it a good or bad idea for Sprint to pick Nextel as a partner?
Hence: Not enough cash to advertise, organizational issues, choice of partner. Ironically sounds like one of the presidential candidates..... |
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