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ravital
Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter
Premium
join:2001-07-19
Merrimack, NH
| A different version of protectionism, that's all
Imagine this: You can walk into any mobile phone store, and buy any mobile phone you like, with full, 100% confidence, that it will work with whatever carrier you choose.
Impossible? That's how 300 million Europeans shop for mobile phones and carriers. Why? Because European governments got together and said so. Period.
Result? In a country like Italy, to cite just one example, where they can't keep the trains running on time, the market penetration for carriers is 150%. No typo, one-hundred-and-fifty percent. That means, every 3 Italians, on average, own 2 SIM cards between them. That's right, people actually sign up for multiple plans and carry multiple SIM cards with them, because they like one carrier's evening rates, and a different carrier's weekend rates, and so on.
But here? Heaven forbid that mega-corporations should actually have to compete with each other.
I don't like government regulation, not one bit. But it does have merits, sometimes.
A few years ago, a wise DSLR member taught me something invaluable: "Telecommunications issues are complex, and require a lot of study, to be properly understood. But there is a useful mental proxy to this: Figure out what the incumbents want (which is easy, they'll tell you), and support the opposite."
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
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| said by ravital  :Imagine this: You can walk into any mobile phone store, and buy any mobile phone you like, with full, 100% confidence, that it will work with whatever carrier you choose. I have been doing just that for over 10 years now, as have many other people. Granted I wasnt using CDMA handsets, but neither do millions of people elsewhere in the world. The beauty of GSM phones is that you simply drop in a SIM and go, this is nothing new.
said by ravital :Impossible? That's how 300 million Europeans shop for mobile phones and carriers. Why? Because European governments got together and said so. Period. I think you are confusing a few things. Firstly, the European governments had absolutely nothing to do with this. In Europe all the countries use GSM so by default all the phones are compatible. Secondly, many Europeans purchase (at full price) unlocked phones. With an unlocked phone you can purchase a SIM card in Houston or Helsinki, drop it into the phone and go.
As I mentioned above, you can walk into thousands of brick and mortar stores in this country (and many thousands more online) and purchase your very own unlocked phone. However, be prepared to pay a few hundred dollars for it. The real problem with the situation in this country is that most consumers want their phone for free. The carriers are more than happy to provide it at little or no cost, however it then comes locked down and usually with a mandatory contract.
I find it humorous that people are still confused/puzzled/dismayed by this whole concept. IF YOU DONT WANT A LOCKED PHONE BE PREPARED TO PAY FOR IT.
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
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| reply to ravital
said by ravital :That's how 300 million Europeans shop for mobile phones and carriers. Why? Because European governments got together and said so. Period. This is a common misconception on this website, so for clarity please see below. The decision for Europe to adopt GSM was driven by the 'European Telecommunications Standards Institute', not by the governments.
quote:
The European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) is an independent, non-profit, standardization organization of the telecommunications industry (equipment makers and network operators) in Europe, with worldwide projection. ETSI has been successful in standardizing the GSM cell phone system and the TETRA professional mobile radio system.
I added the bold to the above description to further illustrate the point. So in reality, equipment makers and network operators decided to use the same format so they could make more money. Its funny how GSM was a business decision, NOT a government mandated or socialism driven process.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_T···nstitute
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jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
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| reply to wifi4milez
Why would I pay hundreds of dollars for a CDMA phone then get that phone to work with a GSM carrier It doesn't matter if its locked or inlocked if the carrier can't provide the coverahge and the reliability that I fully expect to receive. Nothing worse than paying full prooce for a phone then suffer with a slip-shod half-assed service and get gouged by such things as having to pay for text messages from some crap-head selling "sex drugs and the only way to keep from having to pay is to block ALL texting. I personally don't want a Communication device that includes a crappy camera, a miserable MP3 player , a texting keyboard made for midgets all housed in a recycled plastic case scrapped from the refuse piles that were shipped to China.
If I'm going to pay for this service I want and demand that that service delivers on its contract, a connection that works when I want or need it and not have to continually monitor the billing for "mysterious charges" that are nothing but addiitonal revenue gleaned from the unwary public. The Telco industry is sleazy and they sure as hell aren't going out of thier way to be fair or honest to the public. If they think they can get away with it they will. Okay you say if you don't like it don't sign with them Fine but I don't need to help subsidize their operations either with monopolies that utilize public property.
Bottom line,I would want a cell phone carrier that could deal honestly with my 87 year old mother-in law and not take her to the cleaners and charging for texting, SMS and Data transmissions because they know she doesn't know what these terms means. she just wants a cellphone that she can rely on to make a call if needed. | |
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
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| said by jimbo48 :Bottom line,I would want a cell phone carrier that could deal honestly with my 87 year old mother-in law and not take her to the cleaners and charging for texting, SMS and Data transmissions because they know she doesn't know what these terms means. she just wants a cellphone that she can rely on to make a call if needed. Thats great and I am sure there are other people who feel the same way, however it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. What you are asking for is not related to the discussion of CDMA vs. GSM, or locked vs. unlocked. In your case I would suggest buying her a prepaid phone that she would only use in emergencies. She can pick one up in any drugstore or 7-11, and they typically cost between $50 and $120 (including some minutes).
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :The decision for Europe to adopt GSM was driven by the 'European Telecommunications Standards Institute', not by the governments. Isn't it amazing that industries in other parts of the world not only consider their own personal self-interest but also the interests and benefits of their customers, their countries, and the world as a whole and then voluntarily act in EVERYBODIES long term best interest?
Contrast that to how a company operates here. Never happens, and we have to drag the Government in to try and do ANYTHING, and then the Government is bought off, and the situation is worse then ever.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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ravital
Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter
Premium
join:2001-07-19
Merrimack, NH
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :I added the bold to the above description to further illustrate the point. So in reality, equipment makers and network operators decided to use the same format so they could make more money. Its funny how GSM was a business decision, NOT a government mandated or socialism driven process. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_T···nstitute Thank you. I stand corrected.
By the way, would you happen to know why the European industry made this business decision? Was it just pure, high-minded concern for the consumers, as has been suggested? Was it in recognition of a technically superior standard? Or was it because they knew they didn't stand a chance of getting government approval if they didn't agree on a standard? European government have been known to reject applications for manufacturing licenses and such, on exactly such grounds.
I'm not saying I like it, I'm saying it seems to work, sadly, much better than here. And I really, really don't see a "socialist" component in an industry's market penetration rate of 150%.
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"Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar"
Mark Twain | |
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
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·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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| said by ravital :said by wifi4milez :I added the bold to the above description to further illustrate the point. So in reality, equipment makers and network operators decided to use the same format so they could make more money. Its funny how GSM was a business decision, NOT a government mandated or socialism driven process. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_T···nstitute Thank you. I stand corrected. By the way, would you happen to know why the European industry made this business decision? Was it just pure, high-minded concern for the consumers, as has been suggested? Was it in recognition of a technically superior standard? Or was it because they knew they didn't stand a chance of getting government approval if they didn't agree on a standard? European government have been known to reject applications for manufacturing licenses and such, on exactly such grounds. I'm not saying I like it, I'm saying it seems to work, sadly, much better than here. And I really, really don't see a "socialist" component in an industry's market penetration rate of 150%. I really think it was based on the fact that a uniform system would allow larger (and more profitable) deployments across the continent. I also think the GSM 'people' made a convincing argument that it would be of benefit to all the consumers in Europe to be on a single standard. The ETSI then likely took all this information and presented to a room full of representatives who agreed to grant licenses to operate in their respective countries.
I suspect a similar situation would have evolved in the US if we had adopted a single standard. Dont forget, in the US we have used multiple different technologies to provide "cellular" voice services over the years. We have used AMPS, GSM, TDMA, CDMA, and iDen based services, so you can see how things got a little confusing!
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