Free Press lives in some fantasy world in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21363455 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:22:22 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:22:22 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21370210 funchords :
said by bicker See Profile :

When people are consumers, they want socialism; when people are taxpayers, they want libertarianism; and when people are investors, they want profits.
Awesome thought!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21370210 Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:35:23 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21370142 funchords : I see a lot of complaints coming from the eastern side of Florida (mostly speed and latency). ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21370142 Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:24:19 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21367370 bicker : TK Junk Mail is absolutely correct. People aren't willing to pay enough to have the kind of ISP service many of them want, so no provider is going to be willing to offer such service. When people are consumers, they want socialism; when people are taxpayers, they want libertarianism; and when people are investors, they want profits. No two of these extremes can co-exist with either of the others. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21367370 Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:55:30 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21366796 k1ll3rdr4g0n :
said by dvd536 See Profile :

I'd LOVE to see a "At least ####kbps and up to ####kbps" on ISPs and when they don't deliver, a days credit for every day the minimum isn't being delivered.
after all when my bill comes, i don't get to pay "Up to $59.99/month"
Actually according to that TOS you sign, they could pretty much throttle you to dial-up speeds and still be legally in the TOS; simply because the TOS is so wrapped in "legalese". I'm sure the lawyers that are playing poker in back will have a field day with it.

It will be interesting to see how all this evolves, I guarantee that in a couple of years once streaming media gets yet another explosion and people start getting $2,000 ISP bills...ISPs will quickly rethink the whole caps idea when people start saying "yeah I'm not going to put up with this crap" and either: drop internet altogether, goto the competition, or just buy a T1 (hey they have been coming down in price so it could be an affordable reality for the average consumer).

I personally find the "cap" issue funny in terms of legality. They don't have a physical meter like the electric company (water company is kinda the exception...because well I don't know exactly how you are charged for that) so there is no way they can "legally" prove that customers went over a cap. They can show server logs all day long, but a smart judge would just say "lets see a picture of a meter, don't have one? How do I know you didn't just make this data up?".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21366796 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:42:59 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21366673 jester121 : You can have that now! It's called a T1 and they're about $400-500 per month depending on how far away from the CO you live. They come with a Service Level Agreement (SLA) which spells out precisely what ping times, throughput rates, and reliability you can expect, and how you will be compensated if the SLA is not met.

Oh wait -- you want a $40-50 service? Sorry, no SLA for you.

:uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21366673 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:10:43 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21366666 amigo_boy :
said by dvd536 See Profile :

and when they don't deliver, a days credit for every day the minimum isn't being delivered.
Sounds complicated to me. How will they verify that you're being honest that you didn't get what they promised as a minimum? Some people are interested in the maximum. How will that be verified? (I.e., the maximum is a useless number).

What you describe sounds like metered billing. It would be less nebulous about how to prove attainment. And, the provider would have an incentive to provide all you're willing to pay for.

Mark]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21366666 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:08:36 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21366585 dvd536 : I'd LOVE to see a "At least ####kbps and up to ####kbps" on ISPs and when they don't deliver, a days credit for every day the minimum isn't being delivered.
after all when my bill comes, i don't get to pay "Up to $59.99/month"
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21366585 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:39:13 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21365555 espaeth :
said by major marco See Profile :

A State like Floriduh has very little consumer protection laws.
Ironic that would be your example, since it is action brought by the Florida Attorney General that got Comcast to disclose the 250GB caps.

»Comcast Pays Florida $150K For Misleading Consumers]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21365555 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 18:27:04 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21365320 Skippy25 : Maybe I am crazy, I would have to look it up again, but didnt AT&T just do this very thing?

They provide speed ranges, which include a minimum and a maximum. Or did I misinterpret something?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21365320 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 17:26:14 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364423 Combat Chuck : Trackers cannot force you to maintain a 1:1 ratio. They have no control over what your client actually does short of denying you new contacts. With newer clients all the tracker really does is get you up and running quickly.

For instance, using Azureus with Azureus distributed database /decentralized tracker, peer exchange, and the Mainline Distributed Hash Table plugin, all I need is a torrent file or magnet link and if the swarm is of any size at all, within an hour I'm up and running even if the tracker is completely dead. And you say set the private torrent bit? All that will do is bring forth a client that lies to the tracker and ignores the private bit.

Either way it is in the swarms best interest that it continue to upload to a peer that is uploading at a very slow rate than to totally cut off such an individual.
--
The world’s elusive, remember
where love's the leaf
faith, the river
what's born as flame dies in ember
see for yourself!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364423 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:38:35 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364248 Sammer :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Free Press:
Free Press wants the FCC to require Internet service providers to publicly disclose the minimum broadband speed guaranteed -- not just the maximum potential speed offered.
Transparency won't change the facts that NO ISP can guarantee a minimum speed at all locations all the time.
And if an ISP actually did agree to establish a published and guaranteed minimum speed, we would end up with a bunch of vigilantes using some so-called public interest group supplied measurement tool to flood the network with traffic that would become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Well I tend to agree with you I think the minimums would be around 90 kbps. IOW broadband ISPs would only guarantee higher than dialup speeds and even that as you suggest would include legalese disclaimers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364248 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 12:58:08 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364158 openbox9 : You attempted to do so for two states.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364158 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 12:34:10 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364056 major marco :
said by openbox9 See Profile :

FWIW, I'm a happy Floridian consumer so Florida's consumer protection laws must not be too bad.
Well gee, I wasn't aware that you spoke for the entire State. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364056 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 12:09:08 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364034 openbox9 : FWIW, I'm a happy Floridian consumer so Florida's consumer protection laws must not be too bad.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21364034 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 12:03:08 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363978 major marco :
said by openbox9 See Profile :

Regulations are already in place to prevent/correct false advertising and protect the consumer.
Yes, some State laws of select States address fraud perpetrated upon consumers, however those laws are only as good as the AG who has the inclination to enforce them.

Case in point: California has both a vigilant AG, as well as a Dept of Consumer Affairs, to protect consumers from questionable business practices, but what about elsewhere. A State like Floriduh has very little consumer protection laws. In those cases, federal law kicks in where State law is silent, and, the federal arm responsible for enforcing that protection is the FTC which, in the past 8 yrs, has been about as useful as tits on a bull.
--
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Tracking Lord Stanley
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363978 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:46:49 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363938 dadkins : People talk about this, but I haven't seen it in a while.
Note my upload speed pictured on DUMeter, 430 - 490kbps.
For that particular download, I'm doing ok.

A few days ago, for a different download on VUZE, my upload was 1.2mbps - for quite some time! Even after the download was finished.

As I said, *MY* connection seems to be doing ok.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363938 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:37:06 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363880 openbox9 :
said by tubbynet See Profile :

then the end user can't make the well informed decision that the free market economy hinges on.
There's always the "try it risk free for 30 days and get your money back if you aren't satisfied" option. If ISPs are falsely advertising their services, then I agree with you that the free market economy can be twisted and the advertiser should be required to rectify the advertisement. Regulations are already in place to prevent/correct false advertising and protect the consumer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363880 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:24:34 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363853 Camelot One :
said by dadkins See Profile :

For kicks, I downloaded something via VUZE(Azureus BT client).
I was pulling ~2MB/sec(MegaBytes/second)... yeah I'm on Comcast!

*MY* Comcast connection seems to work ok. ;)
It was my understanding that downloads were working fine, it was the uploads they were jacking with. And since most BT trackers atleast TRY to force you to maintain a 1:1 ratio, not being able to upload eventually cuts you off from the downloads. (not to mention forcing people to be a leech)
--
Intel Q6600 @3400Mhz/GA-EP35-DS3P/2x 2048Mb G.Skill/Seagate 750.10/EVGA 8800GT's SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363853 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:20:06 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363652 TKJunkMail :
said by tubbynet See Profile :

no mention of speeds in the article. obviously no corporation is going to explicitly state the speeds that a user is going to get.
They did mention speeds:

»www.freepress.net/node/45366
Free Press wants the FCC to require Internet service providers to publicly disclose the minimum broadband speed guaranteed -- not just the maximum potential speed offered.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363652 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 10:30:37 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363638 tubbynet :
The group is calling upon the FCC, which may be under new leadership shortly, to require that ISPs be completely transparent about exactly how they're throttling, blocking, selling or otherwise tinkering with subscriber traffic. So far, the FCC's refusal to set solid rules on this front has only really helped carriers. While Comcast may have gotten some bad press from their run in with the FCC, they saw no fine, no new rules were constructed, and the door was simply opened for carriers to implement very transparent, but often unreasonable, caps.
no mention of speeds in the article. obviously no corporation is going to explicitly state the speeds that a user is going to get.
however, this group is advocating for transparency in network management techniques when it comes to applications that tend to have high-bandwidth consumption. more and more people are worried about the network neutrality issue because it is only a small jump from forged packets to "tiered" access.

since the isps are not going to provide this information willingly, this group is trying to push them in the direction to do so. i agree that we have become a very litigious society. however, when there is no other way for corporations to be forthright with the consumer, what other action is there?

you of all people should *appreciate* this TK. being the staunch conservative believing in the free market economy, it is the right of the end user to make the decision (with his wallet) what isp to choose. if the isp is not *honest* with the user regarding the network management techniques (maybe honesty is a bit rough, more like open and forthcoming), then the end user can't make the well informed decision that the free market economy hinges on. :uhh:

q.
--
"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers."

~ Caroll Quigley - Tragedy and Hope]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363638 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 10:26:07 EDT Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363626 dadkins : That "tool" doesn't even start here.
As for BT, do people still use that as a primary source still?

For kicks, I downloaded something via VUZE(Azureus BT client).
I was pulling ~2MB/sec(MegaBytes/second)... yeah I'm on Comcast!

*MY* Comcast connection seems to work ok. ;)
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Almost finished		 
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363626 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 10:22:42 EDT Free Press lives in some fantasy world http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363455 TKJunkMail : Free Press:
Free Press wants the FCC to require Internet service providers to publicly disclose the minimum broadband speed guaranteed -- not just the maximum potential speed offered.
If FCC ordered such a requirement, the ISP response would be something like the following added to the TOS:
quote:
Tier: 8000/1000 kbps
Min download 0 kbps
Max download 8000 kbps
Min upload 0 kbps
Max upload 1000 kbps
The above details supplied courtesy of Free Press & the FCC.


Transparency won't change the facts that NO ISP can guarantee a minimum speed at all locations all the time. And NO ISP will add a minimum speed that isn't qualified by dozens of lines of legalese about "how long an interval" and "acts of god" and "verified by independent 3rd party collection of data", etc.

Face it, we live in a world where people and organizations(like Free Press) sue at the drop of a hat and NO COMPANY is going to leave themselves open to that by not including paragraphs of legalese in any contract with the consumer. Even if an ISP did everything the Free Press wants, they'd still sue the minute any group of users experienced a problem that wasn't 100% perfect all the time.

And if an ISP actually did agree to establish a published and guaranteed minimum speed, we would end up with a bunch of vigilantes using some so-called public interest group supplied measurement tool to flood the network with traffic that would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. In other words, they would cause the problem they are seeking to measure.

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21363455 Sun, 02 Nov 2008 09:35:19 EDT