dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
32046
share rss forum feed


Jason13

@rogers.com

How Much Will A Leak In the Manifold Intake Cost Me?


I just bought a Chevy Venture minivan (1998) 2 weeks ago and it just showed its fangs on me, the antifreeze coolant kept leaking and leaving a nasty puddle in my praking lot and took it to Green + Ross shop and after telling me there was "no leak" they finally found it. They told me it's leaking from the "manifold intake" and that it's a "big job". They quoted me between $900 and $1200 and 2 days worth of work. They said half the engine has to be taken out.

My question to you guys is, is this a reasonable price? Are there any shortcuts or cheating on fixing this? Perhaps some liquid that will stop the leak and make my vehicle last the winter? I don't really want to spend $1,000 on a car with 146,000 miles on it that I just bought barely 2 weeks ago.


tehflyintwat

join:2008-03-23
Richmond Hil

I would take it to an independent shop. The intake manifold is a well-known issue with the 3400 engine. In fact, some owners reportedly replaced it several times during ownership. I know it's of no consolation, but at an independent shop you can probably get it done for between $600 and $800 CDN. Shop and compare would be my best advice. It is a well known problem so I'm sure there are plenty of shops out there who will offer you a competitive price.



ObdH
Premium
join:2003-06-11
Abilene, TX

1 edit
reply to Jason13

make sure its a good non nylon gasket (doubt you could find one if you tried)

Next time you go to buy a car, post here before hand... I would have been the first to jump all over the LIM because I have debt im still paying from 2 different cars with that problem

sucks that you bought it 2 days ago, but this problem occurs as last as 03-04 models

my 03 malibu repair was roughly $800 at the dealership so maybe you should check them out too

edit: and if you keep driving the van, it's a sealed deal, coolant and oil together will ruin the whole thing, and then the price will probably double



Jason13

@rogers.com
reply to Jason13

OBdH: I just saw your reply to me in my other thread, you gave me an ominous prediction just 24 hrs before it happened.

That's exactly what the guy at the Green + Ross shop told me, that this problem is notorious in Chevy 3.4 L engines. I will do what you guys ask me to do, shop around in independent shops. I have this guy that knows me pretty well and he's my mechanic but he's always busy with up to 7 and 9 cars crammed into his garage, thanks to everybody for their replies.



Jason13

@rogers.com
reply to Jason13

Wow, just did research on the GM Chevy Venture and the first thing that came up in Google search was: "Manifold Intake Leakeage" and "Class-Action Lawsuit" against GM for this very problem. Wow too late for me, if I had known I would had never bought this vehicle, I did because I also own a GMC Sonoma pick-up truck and it has been a reliable workhorse with absolutely no problems for the last 5 years.

Anyways, I went to my personal mechanic and voila! He told me he has done "tons" of repairs on GM vehicles concerning the manifold intake, in fact, just yesterday he finished fixing a 2003 Venture for the same problem!

Also look at these complaints taken at random from the internet:

1)"The plastic intake manifold in my 1996 Pontiac Bonneville leaked coolant into my engine requiring $800 in repairs. The vehicle has only 62,000 miles on it. The cause of the coolant leak is a known and acknowledged design issue, associated with the plastic manifold by GM, yet they are not willing to accept responsibility or accountability for the large number of failures associated with this design flaw."


2)"Really clever of GM to make the intake manifold out of plastic, wasn't it? Plastic doesn't stand up well to the heat in that part of the engine compartment and all kinds of bad things happen as a result. The problem affects a number of engines and models, including those below. Buicks have more than their share of this problem."

3)"Manifold gasket failed again 2nd failure @162,000 its a plastic piece of junk GM could not care the GM customer care was as if they had a script, the dealer when I spoke to one of the clerks in service said "Really never had that problem" GM knows the problem ......... I have one word for them TOYOTA"

4)"If your considering buying a GM product, my family WAS always a Chevy family, remember this: I bought a 2001 Chevy Venture van. At 19,000 miles the rotors dissolved to nothing and brakes and rotors had to be replaced. I bought a Toyota at the same time. No repairs needed. At 26,000 miles, my Chevy required new control arm bushings - won't pass inspection - $300. My Toyota, required no additional repairs at 37,000 miles. At 29,000 miles, my Chevy venture van started to leak antifreeze into the engine via the intake manifold. Add another $1,000 to the Chevy torment. My Toyota at 46,000, no problems or repairs required. I called Chevy last night and they denied all responsibility for a defect that seems to have affected thousands of poor GM owners. Today it was annouced that Toyota surpassed GM as the biggest car manufacturer in US. I'm neither surprised nor will I ever shed a tear for American car manufacturers after what GM/Chevy has done to me. I hope they feel as much pain as I do repairing their garbage"

Okay guys, feel sorry for me for buying a lemming, I gave GM my last chance and they blew it, no wonder they are going out of business.



dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
reply to Jason13

I had a 2000 Pontiac Grand Am with the same issue.

First time it failed, cost me over $1000.
The second time it failed (15,000 miles later), I traded the car in for a Nissan.



Jason13

@rogers.com

said by dennismurphy:

I had a 2000 Pontiac Grand Am with the same issue.

First time it failed, cost me over $1000.
The second time it failed (15,000 miles later), I traded the car in for a Nissan.
I will never in my life buy a GM minivan again, or car. The sad thing is that I don't like japanese minivans, I like American minivans but look at the crappy choices we have, the Ford Windstar pfffft. Chrysler? No thank you, not after the tranny problems with my last one. Dodge Caravan? I don't know about this one but I will think it has its flaws hidden somewhere. The Toyota Sienna is the only viable alternative.


dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by Jason13 :

I will never in my life buy a GM minivan again, or car. The sad thing is that I don't like japanese minivans, I like American minivans but look at the crappy choices we have, the Ford Windstar pfffft. Chrysler? No thank you, not after the tranny problems with my last one. Dodge Caravan? I don't know about this one but I will think it has its flaws hidden somewhere. The Toyota Sienna is the only viable alternative.
I wouldn't let that one issue keep you from buying another GM. It was an issue with that particular engine. Just this year, I replaced that Nissan with a GMC Acadia, and I have to tell you - it's the best vehicle I've ever owned.


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2

2 recommendations

reply to Jason13

You bought a 10 year old vehicle.

You should expect repairs, no matter what the make.

Put the hyperbole away, get it fixed, and move on.
--
Striving for Parfection.



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to dennismurphy

said by dennismurphy:

said by Jason13 :

I will never in my life buy a GM minivan again, or car. The sad thing is that I don't like japanese minivans, I like American minivans but look at the crappy choices we have, the Ford Windstar pfffft. Chrysler? No thank you, not after the tranny problems with my last one. Dodge Caravan? I don't know about this one but I will think it has its flaws hidden somewhere. The Toyota Sienna is the only viable alternative.
I wouldn't let that one issue keep you from buying another GM. It was an issue with that particular engine. Just this year, I replaced that Nissan with a GMC Acadia, and I have to tell you - it's the best vehicle I've ever owned.
Seems to me that determination can only be done after a few years and not a few months. You have no idea what might come down the pike next year or 2 years from now.

I loved my Subaru's when I had them but after having my Civic a LOT longer and with fewer issues - it is the best car i have ever owned. I don't do that designation for at least 5 years.


dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by CylonRed:

Seems to me that determination can only be done after a few years and not a few months. You have no idea what might come down the pike next year or 2 years from now.

I loved my Subaru's when I had them but after having my Civic a LOT longer and with fewer issues - it is the best car i have ever owned. I don't do that designation for at least 5 years.
To be frank, we're 6 months in, and I've had zero issues with the Acadia.

My Grand Am was in the shop for at least 4 different items by now.
Even our Nissan Altima was in the shop by now.

The Acadia? Nothing.

When I say "best car", I don't mean just from a reliability point of view. From a veratility/comfort/luxury point of view, it blows away all of our previous vehicles. The Altima was a decked out model (3.5 SL), and the Acadia -still- blows it away.

Obviously it takes time to establish a reliability factor ... but I'm happier with the Acadia now than I was with any of our previous vehicles at this point.

HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Jason13

GM foists their turds on the public and then refuses to stand behind their product. Just a few of their debacles that I can think of off the top of my head are:

350 gas engine "converted" to diesel
Early 700R4 auto transmissions
5.3L piston slap
3.4L intakes leaking
350 Vortec intakes leaking

They're now becoming a victim of their own "kwality" issues...



ObdH
Premium
join:2003-06-11
Abilene, TX

1 edit

said by HarryH3:

350 gas engine "converted" to diesel

They're now becoming a victim of their own "kwality" issues...
I remember this engine! I had a 1981 Oldsmobile cutlass supreme 2 door (tan top, brown paint) had the 350 diesel

the heads (IIRC) cracked every couple years

ended up putting a gasoline 350 in it, but never could get it to run smoothly, it was one of those cars that required two feet operation simultaniously to keep it running

I also had an 03 malibu 3.1 v6s have piston slap too.. mine sounded like a diesel on cold starts


Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Jason13

Click for full size
I'm just about to do my lower intake gaskets on my GM 3.8 (as well as all of the top end gaskets) if the weather is nice... I don't think this issue was so much a GM build quality issue, but rather a GM Dexcool issue.. Though the original gaskets weren't the best.

--
20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com


Jason13

@rogers.com

said by Vamp:

I'm just about to do my lower intake gaskets on my GM 3.8 (as well as all of the top end gaskets) if the weather is nice... I don't think this issue was so much a GM build quality issue, but rather a GM Dexcool issue.. Though the original gaskets weren't the best.

My mechanic told me of another GM flaw with the 3.4 L engine. The bolts are way too thin for the job, and too few, so that means that even after putting another rubber (gasket) my minivan runs the danger of having the same problem because the upper cap of the engine cannot be bolted down too tight because the bolts are too delicate, so it's not pressing tight enough and coolant will leak out sooner rather than later.

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dennismurphy

said by dennismurphy:

said by CylonRed:

Seems to me that determination can only be done after a few years and not a few months. You have no idea what might come down the pike next year or 2 years from now.

I loved my Subaru's when I had them but after having my Civic a LOT longer and with fewer issues - it is the best car i have ever owned. I don't do that designation for at least 5 years.
To be frank, we're 6 months in, and I've had zero issues with the Acadia.

My Grand Am was in the shop for at least 4 different items by now.
Even our Nissan Altima was in the shop by now.

The Acadia? Nothing.

When I say "best car", I don't mean just from a reliability point of view. From a veratility/comfort/luxury point of view, it blows away all of our previous vehicles. The Altima was a decked out model (3.5 SL), and the Acadia -still- blows it away.

Obviously it takes time to establish a reliability factor ... but I'm happier with the Acadia now than I was with any of our previous vehicles at this point.
I just bought a new 2009 Maxima recently and took it for a quick trip to Indiana, Ohio, Missouri and back. A very sophisticated car, a very nice ride and hopefully will also be really reliable. Of course my daily driver is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned (Toyota Tacoma DoubleCab), and I would not hesitate to drive it any distance even with 180K miles.


Jason13

@rogers.com
reply to Jason13

Hi guys, well I just got my Chevy Venture and its leaking manifold intake from the shop this afternoon, one professional franchise shop gave me an estimate of between $900 and $1,200 to fix, I went to my mechanic whom I have known for 5 years and he charged me $635. Not bad.

But when he gave me the minivan I noticed it had a tembling which it didn't had before and then a whistling sound, and I mean a loud whistling sound. I turned around and brought it back to him and he told me "bad news", that the gasket was not placed right and that there was a small opening on it. I was frustrated at this point, he went ahead and immediately started to disassemble the whole thing again and almost 4 hours later he game me the minivan back and this time it was normal. I now have it at home and if nothing goes wrong in the next 2 weeks than I'm happy with it.



Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1
reply to Jason13

Click for full size
Click for full size
My LIM gaskets had some kind of failure point at every coolant passage.

All went well with my install... took me alittle longer than I thought it would.... I do see why mechanics charge as much as they do... it is a real involved process.

Changed oil twice and flushed coolant.. no leaks!
--
20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com


Jason13

@rogers.com

That's exactly how my gasket looked like, the thing was made from plastic and it had cracked in several spots.

He told me to change my oil & filter in 2 weeks and use Castrol oil only.



Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1

Yeah the newer aluminum gaskets sure looks like something that would never need to be changed again in a cars lifetime unless something else needs replaced.

I'd still avoid using Dexcool as it is said to cause that (and IMO is true, in addition to the plastic gasket being junk).
--
20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com


IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2

said by Vamp:

I'd still avoid using Dexcool as it is said to cause that (and IMO is true, in addition to the plastic gasket being junk).
Really? How do you explain that only the older version of the GM 60 degree V6 (3100, 3400) has that problem when all other GM engines since 1996 have been using DexCool?

BTW, to the OP, you need to check out »www.gmcanadiansettlement.ca for information on how to claim those repairs from GM, who have settled a class action lawsuit on the LIM gasket.

jtk2
deleted
Premium
join:2008-08-05
Wheaton, IL
reply to Vamp

So is there a specific point in time that this needs to be done, like at a certain mileage or whatever? Or does it just vary from car to car?



CKizer
Premium
join:2003-01-29
Tijeras, NM
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Jason13


Improved Intake Manifold Gasket Kit
I know your pain. My '97 Chevy truck (K1500) 350 (5.7L) had the same problem.

I replaced the intake manifold gaskets at 80K with OEM gaskets and they failed again at 170K. This time I used the re-engineered aluminum plate gaskets with the larger sealing surface. So far, so good!

I'm convinced you can't kill a 350. I ran "salad dressing" in the crankcase for over three months before replacing the gaskets and flushing the cooling and lubricating systems.

--
Crunching for Help Defeat Cancer and FightAIDS@Home at the World Community Grid.


Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to jtk2

said by jtk2:

So is there a specific point in time that this needs to be done, like at a certain mileage or whatever? Or does it just vary from car to car?
No, it depends on what GM engine.. This affected mostly only mid 90s to early 00s. Certain engines like the 3800 (mine) were particularly bad. The ones I took off in the pictures I posted above are from a 98 with only 86k miles and from the condition it looks like its been bad for quite some time. Probably in early stages of a full out failure.

As far as install, if you do a lot of work yourself then the task really isn't that bad, I'd rate it like a 7/10 in difficulty, if of course you set aside an entire day, or maybe go slow over 2 days with a garage (definitely recommend in a garage)... Is it worth $600-1000? I don't think so... Though it did take me about 6~ hours with running into a couple snags, taking breaks and being a perfectionist at cleaning the gasket surfaces.
--
20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com

jtk2
deleted
Premium
join:2008-08-05
Wheaton, IL

OK, thanks.

My car is a 2001 Regal with the 3800.

I'd have to borrow a garage. I'm currently hoping for the best...



Razzy2

join:2002-10-29
kudos:1
reply to Jason13

Well I have a 2002 Monte Carlo SS with a 3800 engine. It has alittle over 95,000 miles on it now and I haven't seen any leaking problems - doesn't mean it won't happen but I was leary about it when I first read about the infamous GM coolant leaks a few years back. It just had a coolant flush a year ago and dexcool was refilled. I asked the manager about it - he said it's safe.... not sure if I should believe that or not.

Glad it's out of my hands and into my girlfri.... uh never mind! Still have the car!



Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1

4 edits

said by Razzy2:

Well I have a 2002 Monte Carlo SS with a 3800 engine. It has alittle over 95,000 miles on it now and I haven't seen any leaking problems - doesn't mean it won't happen but I was leary about it when I first read about the infamous GM coolant leaks a few years back. It just had a coolant flush a year ago and dexcool was refilled. I asked the manager about it - he said it's safe.... not sure if I should believe that or not.
I didn't think mine was leaking either because I was losing coolant and/or oil at such a slow rate it didn't seem like I was losing any (no loss on dipstick) and didn't see anything unusual in oil or coolant. Check the little U shape crevices in the LIM right above the injectors. That's where I started getting pooling that looked like coolant and oil mixed (but it looked like it mixed outside, not milky).

Note that mine looked like they were failed for a long time, but just recently got symptoms.. There is about a 90% chance your LIM gaskets on your 3800 have atleast 1 failure point or failing point if it's the original plastic ones. Sure most of these cars go their entire life with the failing gaskets, but I don't risk it.

--
20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com


Razzy2

join:2002-10-29
kudos:1

1 edit

OT

Yep it may or may not happen. Although I read it's mostly the 3400 engines has these problems. I would get rid of the car but my girlfriend likes the car so its hers - she only use it for 3 miles each way to work. I don't trust that car as much I trusted my good ol 93 Ford Ranger Splash of 9 years got wrecked by some moron =\ But it has been pretty reliable to me except some annoying minor problems - won't get another GM/Chevy though.

Edit: added something...



Jason13

@rogers.com
reply to IamGimli

Re: How Much Will A Leak In the Manifold Intake Cost Me?

BAD NEWS: After spending nearly $700 on this GM crap car it is STILL leaking anti-freeze. Fresh big puddle of green water on my parking spot. I left my Venture minivan with my mechanic who was dumbfounded, will find out tomorrow what is happening.

said by IamGimli See Profile

BTW, to the OP, you need to check out »www.gmcanadiansettlement.ca for information on how to claim those repairs from GM, who have settled a class action lawsuit on the LIM gasket.
[/BQUOTE :


Thanks buddy, that's what my mechanic told me, tonight I'm clicking on this site and submitting my $700 bill, well make that $1,400 because my manifold is toast again it seems after just 3 days

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Vamp

said by Vamp:

No, it depends on what GM engine.. This affected mostly only mid 90s to early 00s. Certain engines like the 3800 (mine) were particularly bad.
The 3800 never did have a lower intake manifold problem. Different engine line (the older model 3300-3800 is a 90 degree V6, the ones with the LIM gasket issue were 60 degree V6).

A much smaller number of 90 degree V6 had a different problem in that the head gasket (different gasket) would develop a leak after the plastic manifold would overheat and become slightly deformed.