openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution
Not to mention that S_engineer  's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to marigolds
said by marigolds :I think you will find Illinois Central particularly relevant and enlightening on this particular public trust issue. Meanwhile, Martin v Waddell should firmly establish for you why the public trust is a Constitutionally granted foundation of the American Republic and a capitalist society. Screw that, 1 mille per breath of air or I'm bagging your head to prevent theft of property. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | I don't even know what that means but it's funny! |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by S_engineer :They can choose areas where the median income is above average. For example, look at this map with communities with professional degrees » www.city-data.com/top2/h188.htmloverlapped with most income » www.city-data.com/top2/z0.htmlnow look at where Verizon Fios is » /gmaps/fiosnow tell me with a straight face that theres no "cherry Picking" going on. All I see is three lists. I don't see any correlation done by you proving anything. instead of using the pins, i'll use the FIOS map with illinois as a test case.
I'll run a covariance model using cokriging of professional degrees and income as a predictive for FIOS deployment, and we'll see how it comes out.
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Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Of course, that will not prove anything since we are still looking at a community level, which local franchises will not affect. Still though, it can indicate a pattern.
The better test would require census block or block group level deployment statistics (we're supposed to have those any day now, right?) |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
 ·Comcast
| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9 :Not to mention that S_engineer 's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. incorrect, what the maps show (in general) are areas where the limited fios resources (micro)are being deployed in more affluent areas. Of course they're going to want to bypass municiple franchise laws by just doing at the state (macro) level. |
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Metatron2008
join:2008-09-02
Stockbridge, GA
1 edit | reply to TKJunkMail
Try reading the constitution again TK. Most amendments do not apply to private institutions. |
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SD6
join:2005-03-26
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer :said by openbox9 :Not to mention that S_engineer 's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. incorrect, what the maps show (in general) are areas where the limited fios resources (micro)are being deployed in more affluent areas. Of course they're going to want to bypass municiple franchise laws by just doing at the state (macro) level. S-engineer - You don't have any maps and you haven't shown anything. |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO | There were maps at the links. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to S_engineer
Did you look at Verizon's wireline network map by state? It oddly lines up more or less with the user reported Verizon FiOS deployment map...and the top earning zip codes...and the professional degree locations that you highlighted previously. The only correlation that I see from this relatively high-level data is that Verizon is deploying FiOS across their footprint that coincidentally happens to be the highest paid, most educated areas of the country. Accusations of "cherry picking" are still far fetched and undocumented from what I can see based on this info. |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| I think it is worthwhile to look at the Verizon map of Illinois (only state i looked at in detail so far).
Clearly there is something interesting going on there with the specific villages they chose. But still, selection at the community level is okay; it is selection at the block or household level that gets into the cherrypicking problem. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Do you have references for the block/household data points? That's the info I'm looking for to discuss the "cherry picking" accusations. |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO | I can easily get the demographics from the Census ACS.
Getting it from Verizon though? No clue. |
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SD6
join:2005-03-26
| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9 :Did you look at Verizon's wireline network map by state? It oddly lines up more or less with the user reported Verizon FiOS deployment map...and the top earning zip codes...and the professional degree locations that you highlighted previously. The only correlation that I see from this relatively high-level data is that Verizon is deploying FiOS across their footprint that coincidentally happens to be the highest paid, most educated areas of the country. Accusations of "cherry picking" are still far fetched and undocumented from what I can see based on this info. Thanks. I thought there was something more than this.
I think state level maps are needed. Illinois (and Pennsylvania) would be good to see. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to marigolds
If the goal is to discuss accusations of "cherry picking" what good is lining up education and income demographics for Illinois without Verizon deployment stats? Verizon's wireline map only shows that they provide service spottily throughout the state. Considering DSLR's user FiOS map only shows three "exact" locations, I don't see any meaningful statistics to aid the "cherry picking" argument. |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| It's useful in Illinois because Illinois has the village concept, a unit that is smaller than a township.
This means that the Illinois map is a little higher resolution than most states. Of course, this does not help you with FIOS, only with where Verizon is deploying line service.
I'm not at all familiar with the differences between the federal tariffs and whether or not that would reflect different types of service deployment.
Anyway, it's not enough to draw good conclusions, so without knowing where Verizon deploys you really cannot answer the cherrypicking question one way or the other.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
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Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Agreed that a valid conclusion can't be drawn either way based on the limited information. Thanks for the dialog. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to openbox9
first of all, after reading my posts, I noticed that i never said that I was using fios as an example. I'm sorry for that, it was a long day and i was tired. The purpose was to show where there was at least a trend in fios deployments. Are there variances, of course. Should additional data be looked at, absolutely. But it at least appears support the argument regarding cherry picking. Or at least that more affluent areas are getting the deployments.
now whether or not that cherry picking is right or wrong is a separate argument.
--
"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| said by S_engineer :But it at least appears support the argument regarding cherry picking. Maybe I'm misreading your posts, but I don't see any data supporting the cherry picking argument.said by S_engineer :Or at least that more affluent areas are getting the deployments. Based on the extremely limited data available, I'll agree with this point....but only because Verizon's footprint appears to line up with the best educated, most affluent areas of the country. If Verizon had wireline service coast to coast in every market, then I would begin to see a pattern that could arguably be construed as cherry picking the wealthier, more educated markets. Given Verizon's wireline service map and the fact that they don't serve every market, I'd suggest that the "appearance" of cherry picking is only coincidental. If more detailed and conclusive data is made available contrary to the point, I'll gladly change my tune. But so far, I don't see it. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| It very well may be coincidental. It certainly needs to be more detailed. Keep in mind that Verizon was just an example. But the example I chose at least at first glance appears to support Verizon deploying in a majority of the wealthier areas. This obviously would be a bigger project than one person can do in one day. Something I may take up to prove or disprove my point just because I'm more curious.
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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