openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to tubbynet
Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by tubbynet:but it allows them to choose areas where there is competition. How so? From what I understand, the franchise reform minimizes the requirements to deploy new technologies into markets. How does that allow an incumbent to choose where competition exists?said by tubbynet:we can see it all over in the disparities between speeds and prices in fios areas and those who aren't served by fios. So competition works? Or am I missing your point? |
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 TsumePremium
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN
 ·Comcast
| said by openbox9:said by tubbynet:but it allows them to choose areas where there is competition. How so? From what I understand, the franchise reform minimizes the requirements to deploy new technologies into markets. How does that allow an incumbent to choose where competition exists? Before: Local franchises dictate 98% coverage of their population.
After: State franchise has little to no coverage requirement.
Result: People in rural / less "competitive" areas get no cable / phone / etc. They choose where competition exists and where to compete. Rather than serve an entire city, they can "cherry pick" and serve only the "rich" area that will buy more of their services. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | said by Tsume:Before: Local franchises dictate 98% coverage of their population. After: State franchise has little to no coverage requirement. I understand the before/after situations, what I don't understand is tubbynet  's comment about allowing providers to choose areas where there is competition. Franchise reform aids providers to choose where they deploy service, but doesn't necessarily allow providers to choose where there is competition...short of them choosing not to compete in a market, which they already do.said by Tsume:Result: People in rural / less "competitive" areas get no cable / phone / etc. How's that different than before?said by Tsume:They choose where competition exists and where to compete. Rather than serve an entire city, they can "cherry pick" and serve only the "rich" area that will buy more of their services. Is there proof of that? I see the "redlining" comment bantered around a lot, but haven't seen any actual evidence. |
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| They can choose areas where the median income is above average. For example, look at this map with communities with professional degrees
»www.city-data.com/top2/h188.html
overlapped with most income
»www.city-data.com/top2/z0.html
now look at where Verizon Fios is
»/gmaps/fios
now tell me with a straight face that theres no "cherry Picking" going on.
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| All I see is three lists. I don't see any correlation done by you proving anything.
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer:now tell me with a straight face that theres no "cherry Picking" going on. Look at Verizon's wireline coverage map. I sense a conspiracy theory.
»www22.verizon.com/wholesale/solu···linemap/ |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to fAcEtIOUs
Not to mention that S_engineer 's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. |
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 marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:All I see is three lists. I don't see any correlation done by you proving anything. instead of using the pins, i'll use the FIOS map with illinois as a test case.
I'll run a covariance model using cokriging of professional degrees and income as a predictive for FIOS deployment, and we'll see how it comes out.
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marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Of course, that will not prove anything since we are still looking at a community level, which local franchises will not affect. Still though, it can indicate a pattern.
The better test would require census block or block group level deployment statistics (we're supposed to have those any day now, right?) |
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| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:Not to mention that S_engineer 's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. incorrect, what the maps show (in general) are areas where the limited fios resources (micro)are being deployed in more affluent areas. Of course they're going to want to bypass municiple franchise laws by just doing at the state (macro) level. |
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| said by S_engineer:said by openbox9:Not to mention that S_engineer 's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. incorrect, what the maps show (in general) are areas where the limited fios resources (micro)are being deployed in more affluent areas. Of course they're going to want to bypass municiple franchise laws by just doing at the state (macro) level. S-engineer - You don't have any maps and you haven't shown anything. |
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marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | There were maps at the links. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to S_engineer
Did you look at Verizon's wireline network map by state? It oddly lines up more or less with the user reported Verizon FiOS deployment map...and the top earning zip codes...and the professional degree locations that you highlighted previously. The only correlation that I see from this relatively high-level data is that Verizon is deploying FiOS across their footprint that coincidentally happens to be the highest paid, most educated areas of the country. Accusations of "cherry picking" are still far fetched and undocumented from what I can see based on this info. |
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marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | I think it is worthwhile to look at the Verizon map of Illinois (only state i looked at in detail so far).
Clearly there is something interesting going on there with the specific villages they chose. But still, selection at the community level is okay; it is selection at the block or household level that gets into the cherrypicking problem. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Do you have references for the block/household data points? That's the info I'm looking for to discuss the "cherry picking" accusations. |
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marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | I can easily get the demographics from the Census ACS.
Getting it from Verizon though? No clue. |
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| reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:Did you look at Verizon's wireline network map by state? It oddly lines up more or less with the user reported Verizon FiOS deployment map...and the top earning zip codes...and the professional degree locations that you highlighted previously. The only correlation that I see from this relatively high-level data is that Verizon is deploying FiOS across their footprint that coincidentally happens to be the highest paid, most educated areas of the country. Accusations of "cherry picking" are still far fetched and undocumented from what I can see based on this info. Thanks. I thought there was something more than this.
I think state level maps are needed. Illinois (and Pennsylvania) would be good to see. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to marigolds
If the goal is to discuss accusations of "cherry picking" what good is lining up education and income demographics for Illinois without Verizon deployment stats? Verizon's wireline map only shows that they provide service spottily throughout the state. Considering DSLR's user FiOS map only shows three "exact" locations, I don't see any meaningful statistics to aid the "cherry picking" argument. |
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marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | It's useful in Illinois because Illinois has the village concept, a unit that is smaller than a township.
This means that the Illinois map is a little higher resolution than most states. Of course, this does not help you with FIOS, only with where Verizon is deploying line service.
I'm not at all familiar with the differences between the federal tariffs and whether or not that would reflect different types of service deployment.
Anyway, it's not enough to draw good conclusions, so without knowing where Verizon deploys you really cannot answer the cherrypicking question one way or the other.
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Agreed that a valid conclusion can't be drawn either way based on the limited information. Thanks for the dialog. |
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