utahluge
join:2004-10-14
Draper, UT | reply to birdfeedr
Re: Global Crossing & Hurricane Electric looked other way ??
Depends on where you film from. Obviously your not going to be in the same room. Plus, just film the house number and then snail-mail a CD to the police department. Be anonymous. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to birdfeedr
said by birdfeedr  :Hand the police a video tape of your tenants hosting sex with children? Sounds like you created a video of kiddie-porn. And gave the evidence to police. Not too smart, in my view. There are cases where well-intentioned people bought dope, called the police to give it to them, and report who the seller was. The caller went to jail for buying and possessing dope.
The last thing I would do is visit kid porn sites so I could video tape them as evidence. Not unless I was part of a watchdog group recognized by the police.
Mark |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to utahluge
said by utahluge :said by Rob :If you own a home, and you lease it out, and multiple people inform you that the people leasing your home are using it host sex with children, you wouldn't do anything about it? Uhhh, ever heard of a video camera? You would get a lot further with handing over a video tape to the police. At the very least it would keep you out of jail. Hand the police a video tape of your tenants hosting sex with children? Sounds like you created a video of kiddie-porn. And gave the evidence to police.
Not too smart, in my view.
C'mon people, surely you're not all as dense you seem to be. There's lots of ways to get authorities involved without getting caught in the middle. Hell, call your local TV station. They'd love stories on "kiddie porn right under your noses. Film at 11."
Call the local equivalent of DCYF. There's plenty of ways to allege something without coming right out and saying it. Talk blonde with big hair and a Cranston accent.
Ok, that last part is a Rhode Island euphemism. Ya gotta be there.  |
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kruser
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T Southwest
| reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :said by MyDogHsFleas :This is actually false. Tenants have considerable rights, depending on the state/city they live in. In many cases you cannot evict tenants because you have "investigated" and you believe they are doing something illegal, especially if they have a lease. In many cases you can't even evict them if they are convicted of a crime. To do so invites a large lawsuit. The lease says person won't engage in illegal activity on the property (network). They do. They're gone. If they want to argue, well then here are the police to arrest them for the illegal activity. The child-porn hosts can sue when they get out of prison. wig Who are you to say the activity was illegal? Are you the police? No, I did not think so.
I am a tenant in a fairly large apartment complex and it is usually quiet and peaceful.
However, a year or two back a female moved in and she was obviously dealing drugs from her apartment or she was a crack whore. Not sure but anyhow, about a week or two after she moved in the traffic in and out of the place picked up highly. We went from maybe four cars per hour to 20 cars per hour. The extra 16 cars were all traffic for her apartment. They were white and black males mostly and would stay for under 5 minutes while some would stay for longer and eventually a few would stay for days.
It was then that I said something as the guys coming over were badly dressed and looked like they had been up for days.
So the manager made note of my complaint and watched the traffic and verified that I was correct. She could not do anything however but the police were called and they started tracking the vehicles that came and went. This took about two months and they finally busted someone going in or out of her apartment and that bust activated the clause like yours that says you cannot use the apartment for illegal activities. Once that took place then the complex sent her a certified letter stating she had 30 days to vacate. She did but I've seen many that did not and the sheriff had to come in and throw them out.
So if you are really a landlord then you are doing illegal actions but I suspect you are not a landlord.
You sound like the guy down here that says he will throw you out if you put up a satellite dish on his property even though it is your area. The federal government gives you the right as a tenant to put up a dish so long as it is an exclusive use area of your rented apartment. So if you have say a balcony exclusive to you that faces south then you can put a dish on it regardless of what the lease papers say. It's called the OTARD law.
Sorry to be off topic here but this guy needs to learn in my book. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to nitzan
said by nitzan :Absolutely disagree. Carriers should not be responsible for the actions of their customers if they in good faith did not notice the abuse. Well what is abuse? What do you do when there is activity that is illegal in your jurisdiction coming from Russia or Romania? Disconnect Russia or Romania's internet connection? |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to hottboiinnc
And mainstream media never ever questions the actions of the police. I guess even MWW/ChildS won't make the media question the police. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to jhboricua
said by jhboricua :If the evidence is there, why would the authorities ignore it? They don't have to care unless the mass media PR will fire the police chief. Unless there an ambulance is being requested the chances of them showing up is related to how many hours since the last donut break.
NYC, 20 minutes to show upto a high hobo who broke through a front window of a store and was bleeding, ambulance crew couldn't do anything because of weapons check guidelines.
NYC, 45 minutes to show up to 2 thugs against a taxi driver who wouldn't pay. Taxi driver got fucked up and bleeding eventually, but not robbed. Taxi driver drove away injured before cops showed up (30 mins from starting point).
NYC, 25 minutes, neighbor having extended family party turned ugly after too much tequila.
NYC, 10 minutes, ex-employee takes a Uzi to a Radioshack and then goes shooting at rush hour lines of people waiting for buses.
Othercases, 911 wants a 20 minute phone interview while there is a gangfight going on before they will send someone, yes, they said they will only send someone after I give them a testimony. This wasn't NYC but a suburb.
Time for the cops to held legally responsible for not showing up, or time for Texas self defense rights/Texas gun laws nationally. You don't mess with random people since you know you will get shot by grandma.
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws and cops that never show up will have them.
Unless its MWW/ChildS or a corpse, they will take their sweet time in showing up. Ambulances and fire dept are 10x faster. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to Rob
said by Rob :I doubt it very much. I bet you'd be the first one there, with a shotgun, a baseball bat, and ready to kick some ass. I should come tell you that my neighbors who I hate have a child brothel in their house. I'll love to see the carnage you do and the cops storming the house while your killing the occupants of that house. :-D perfect way to get rid of the neighbors, and to give a sob story about a lone rampaging psychopath attacking the neighborhood to the local TV newsvans
You responsibility is to tell the cops, and thats it. If the cops don't want to do anything about it. Tough luck. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_···immunity
Even if the cops take 3 hours to show up to a group of serial killers executing your entire extended family during thanksgiving, there is nothing you can do (but since this is your residence, you can take a shotgun and deal with it yourself »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine this doesn't apply to property you rent out, or backbone/consumer ISPs). |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to Skippy25
said by Skippy25 :During that investigation the ISP's should be looked at as well to see if they were turning a blind eye to it. Not that I believe ISP's should be anything more than a dumbpipe, but if they are fully aware that they are being utilized for illegal activities, then they SHOULD be required to take the proper steps to aide authorities or brought to justice for not doing so. Would the city water company be held responsible for providing city water to a chemical manufacturer that does environmental pollution into their backlot if some hippies told the city water company that the chemical manufacturer is using the water for illegal purposes? |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to knightmb
It depends on state. On some, by just filing meaningless appeals you can extend it to 6 months before the eviction crew comes. In others, there is no due process, 1 day after the rent is due you file papers, 2-3 days later illegal occupation notice is served, and eviction crew can come whenever they want (when confirmation that the illegal occupation notice was served). The eviction date itself is never told to the occupant. So from 1 day late on the rent, by the end of the month you can have a new tenent in there. BTW, all you belongings go on the street. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :The lease says person won't engage in illegal activity on the property (network). They do. They're gone. If they want to argue, well then here are the police to arrest them for the illegal activity. But the police aren't here. Only a court can make the declaration the illegal activity was done for the purpose of the lease, not you. McColo has excellent grounds to sue if they are innocent (probably not). |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :You're damned right they looked the other way. People have been reporting this stuff directly to (at least) Hurricane Electric for quite awhile. They certainly knew of any criminal activity and their failure to address it until it was blown up in a major media outlet makes them culpable, especially since HE is not an "ISP" in the retail sense the law anticipates. Its not a backbone ISP's right to regulate content. If we had backbones disconnecting ISPs on a daily basis for tiny disputes, there would be no internet. What if my cousin ripped me off, can I call Verizon and tell them to shut off landline service to my cousin because I say he defrauded me? |
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RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
New York
1 edit | reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :The idea that you MUST wait for law enforcement is ridiculous. If I am a landlord and someone notifies me(or I become aware in whatever manner) that one of my tenants is engaging in illegal activity on my property, then I am ABSOLUTELY obligated to investigate such activity and I am well within my rights to throw the f**k out anyone whom I find to be engaged in such. If you tried that in New York, not only will a judge restore possession of the premises back to the tenant, but you as the landlord, would then be accountable for treble damages to the tenant for any losses he/she may incur as a result of an eviction that was done without a court order.
For what its worth, it takes anywhere from 3-6 months to evict someone in New York -- with the shorter cases involving tenants that have already vacated the premises (in which case the landlord still needs to receive the eviction order before he can make the property available for renting to a new tenant).
With that being said, I know a few people that act as landlords of their property.. Its very hard to get good tenants, and if you end up stuck with a real scumbag in your property, you could end up losing quite a bit of money.. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to amigo_boy
True, but the question is now the populist won, what policies (for lack of better term) is he going to enact to shape our society in a way that makes the population know that they have a constitutional role in the governing process. I think we're both trying to obtain alot of the same goals. You write well; it gives plenty of credence to your position. Continue non-repentant with your positions. It gives the opposition food for thought. Whether or not they digest it is yet to be seen. I enjoyed the discussion.
--
"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :said by KrK :said by DVOOR8 :The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. This is where I think the problem lies. I think they ignored evidence/proof of wrongdoing right up until public scrutiny and publicity meant they had to act. I completely agree. Unfortunately this happens all too often. well if it didnt happen then every local TV station wouldnt need their "I-Team". just sad that it takes the threat of the media beaming it nationwide via satellite to get action.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer :Idealistically, your aspirations for this country are commendable. Realistically....well...*sigh* That could be true. But, historically, a big-bang approach to shocking a "palsied" public (the founders' terminology) into stoic, rugged individualists balancing their self-interest with a "common good" hasn't been very realistic either. When a republic reaches the point (I believe) ours has, it's usually ripe for a demagogic populist.
Mark |
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dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer :and some people want any excuse to diminish the 2nd ammendment right, or at least their skewed interpretation of it. So if you're a landlord throwing people out on the street because of a false allegation, or an allegation that did not go through the proper channels, be prepared for a full contingent of lawyers to be talking about your case. And when your getting thrown out of your house because of a bogus judgement, what will you be able to do???? Nothing, because you've gotten rid of your 2nd ammendment right. And soon after, there goes the first ammendment rights followed by the other 8 (for starters). |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to SilverSurfer
said by SilverSurfer :said by dynodb :... there is an argument to be made that they should be held accountable if they knowingly allow it to happen- essentially they'd be acting as a co-conspirator. Sure, an argument can be made. I can make an argument about monkeys flying out of my butt. Doesn't make it viable OR a law, however. Argument isn't law. What law was broken BTW? What is the cause of action here besides an allegation of co-conspiracy? You're suggesting that the host wasn't breaking the law??? It's been pretty well established that they were.
The question is, did the ISP know, should they have reasonably known, and should they be able to turn a blind eye to it?
An analogy- you rent a house to someone dealing drugs out of it. If you had no knowledge or reason to know they were doing so, you committed no crime. If on the other hand you continued to rent the house to the drug dealers knowing they rented the house for the purpose of dealing drugs, you could be prosecuted as a co-conspirator benefitting from a criminal enterprise.
Again- it would be unreasonable to expect an ISP to police their customers for any and all possible infractions, but for a continuting operation as large as this one has to question whether they knowingly allowed this to go on in in the name of profit. |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to dynodb
said by dynodb :... there is an argument to be made that they should be held accountable if they knowingly allow it to happen- essentially they'd be acting as a co-conspirator. Sure, an argument can be made. I can make an argument about monkeys flying out of my butt. Doesn't make it viable OR a law, however. Argument isn't law. What law was broken BTW? What is the cause of action here besides an allegation of co-conspiracy? |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to amigo_boy
I wouldn't mind the big band approach in the context of finding out the true magnitude of the problems that we face. Each "band-member" will probably bring his/her own horrific baggage. This could help us to avoid the band-aid approach we seem to be taking now, and enact substantively changes proactively rather than seeing the system break as a whole.
Civic duty is an obligation, but it should not be mandated. This usually happens when people become adults. I believe Maslow was correct with his hierarchy of needs, but unfortunately Maslow isn't being properly taught in the classroom. Furthermore, what happens when you reach the top (this is the point when your giving back) and the cushion that provided your kindness gets wiped out?
And just how do you teach obligations to the Jerry Springer/Maury Povich generation ?
Idealistically, your aspirations for this country are commendable. Realistically....well...*sigh*
I'll continue to do my part
--
"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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