DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
 ·Optimum Online
| reply to GOLFnSUN
Re: Global Crossing & Hurricane Electric looked other way ??
I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down.
If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye?
The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by DVOOR8  :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. They have been notified for ages. They just made too much money to do anything about it until it made the National press in the form of the Wash Post story. Then the negative PR value MADE them take action. And when notified of problems, they should have started their own investigation and not depend on some reporters to do it for them.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| reply to DVOOR8
said by DVOOR8 :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. If you own a home, and you lease it out, and multiple people inform you that the people leasing your home are using it host sex with children, you wouldn't do anything about it?
Your response would be "landlords don't have the duty to police the way tenants use the home" ?
I doubt it very much. I bet you'd be the first one there, with a shotgun, a baseball bat, and ready to kick some ass. |
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DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| reply to GOLFnSUN
said by GOLFnSUN :said by DVOOR8 :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. They have been notified for ages. They just made too much money to do anything about it until it made the National press in the form of the Wash Post story. Then the negative PR value MADE them take action. And when notified of problems, they should have started their own investigation and not depend on some reporters to do it for them. Bandwidth providers are not investigative authorities and have no place doing any investigation into illegal activity or another companies actions.
If the proper authorities were notified by anyone or had a reason to act, suppliers of bandwidth ALWAYS comply with whatever law authorities request of them. Sounds to me that even law enforcement wasn't onto this. |
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DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| reply to Rob
said by Rob :said by DVOOR8 :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. If you own a home, and you lease it out, and multiple people inform you that the people leasing your home are using it host sex with children, you wouldn't do anything about it? Your response would be "landlords don't have the duty to police the way tenants use the home" ? I doubt it very much. I bet you'd be the first one there, with a shotgun, a baseball bat, and ready to kick some ass. Wow, that is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have seen. I would do the right thing and contact the proper authorities and handle it like someone who cares about the outcome. I am not going to try and battle crime myself nor launch my own investigation for publicity which is what this was. |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| said by DVOOR8 :said by Rob :said by DVOOR8 :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. If you own a home, and you lease it out, and multiple people inform you that the people leasing your home are using it host sex with children, you wouldn't do anything about it? Your response would be "landlords don't have the duty to police the way tenants use the home" ? I doubt it very much. I bet you'd be the first one there, with a shotgun, a baseball bat, and ready to kick some ass. Wow, that is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have seen. I would do the right thing and contact the proper authorities and handle it like someone who cares about the outcome. I am not going to try and battle crime myself nor launch my own investigation for publicity which is what this was. And what if the authorities did nothing? You would just ignore it?
Just let them continue to do what they do without taking any action?
Where does it become your responsibility? Never? |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| said by Rob :Where does it become your responsibility? Never? Most States have laws that punish and/or strongly disincentivize vigilantes. Suggest you become acquainted with yours otherwise you may find yourself sharing a jail cell with the same individual you thought you had a right to enforce the law upon. |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | reply to Rob
If the evidence is there, why would the authorities ignore it? |
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emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX
| reply to DVOOR8
said by DVOOR8 :Bandwidth providers are not investigative authorities and have no place doing any investigation into illegal activity or another companies actions. If the proper authorities were notified by anyone or had a reason to act, suppliers of bandwidth ALWAYS comply with whatever law authorities request of them. Sounds to me that even law enforcement wasn't onto this. The idea that you MUST wait for law enforcement is ridiculous.
If I am a landlord and someone notifies me(or I become aware in whatever manner) that one of my tenants is engaging in illegal activity on my property, then I am ABSOLUTELY obligated to investigate such activity and I am well within my rights to throw the f**k out anyone whom I find to be engaged in such.
wig
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Please keep your f---ing religion to yourself. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to DVOOR8
said by DVOOR8 :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth This is one of those things where, taken to an extreme (in either direction) it's a problem. I wouldn't want to make providers responsible for anything customers do. But, they shouldn't be immune from any responsibility when it's obvious they turned a blind eye, and were complicit to some extent.
There are many aspects of the law which involve "what a reasonable person" would be expected to know (do). There would be nothing wrong with holding providers to that standard.
What I want to know is, where was Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)? All we hear from their fans is how wonderful it was for EFF to launch a personal injury lawsuit against telcos. Why didn't EFF file a class action against these parties?
Mark |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to emptywig
Doing the right thing is very subjective in a society that allows for gratuitous violence and sex on the tube 24/7. People that have been trying to do the right thing are lambasted as a neocons. If federal or municiple authorities asked for compliance, then these 2 ISPs should adhere. Otherwise, you may be in a situation where allegations get innocents hurt. Why didn't this clown from the post run this past authorities...you know, the proper chain of command?
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
1 edit | reply to jhboricua
said by jhboricua :If the evidence is there, why would the authorities ignore it? Some people just want any excuse to exercise their 2nd amendment rights, or at least their warped interpretation of it. So if the authorities don't show up, with a full contingent of SWAT operatives no less, they feel justified in taking action themselves. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer :Why didn't this clown from the post run this past authorities...you know, the proper chain of command? The article ends by saying there is more to come, but he just wanted to get this part of the story out now.
I don't see anything wrong with a reporter contacting potential co-conspirators as part of the story. If he didn't contact them, there would have been nothing on record concerning their position prior to law enforcement action (if/when it occurs).
I also don't see anything wrong with a reporter publishing a story instead of contacting law enforcement (presumably keeping the story secret?). The reporter's has a job to do. Publishing the story is just one of many ways to alert law enforcement (through public pressure).
Mark |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
and some people want any excuse to diminish the 2nd ammendment right, or at least their skewed interpretation of it. So if you're a landlord throwing people out on the street because of a false allegation, or an allegation that did not go through the proper channels, be prepared for a full contingent of lawyers to be talking about your case. And when your getting thrown out of your house because of a bogus judgement, what will you be able to do????
Nothing, because you've gotten rid of your 2nd ammendment right.
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to Matt
said by Matt :they feel justified in taking action themselves. I wouldn't mind seeing a more militant mindset among Americans. We paint ourselves as patriotic, the home of the brave, etc. But, if you travel through other parts of the world, they have a much stronger expression of such traits. For example, in Latin America it's not uncommon to have annual demonstrations, often violent. Or, for labor sectors to shut down the country. Or, to walk through the main airport and find demonstrators disrupting operations (for better working conditions). It's all accepted as part of how society works. That it's better than "staying in line, and waiting for the authorities to take care of something."
Occasionally we read stories about a group of neighbors who beat the heck out of a burglary (or child molestation) suspect before the police arrive. Everyone gets a tingly feeling about that. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some episodes like that involving corporate executives.
Mark |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to amigo_boy
Except for the fact that he may have just screwed a pending case. Not to mention there must be proof that these are violations of Global Crossings and Hurricanes policies. I think its hipocritical for people to ask for a form of "pseudo dumb pipe", and then bitch when they see some of the ramifications of those desires.
And is this the same Global Crossing that screwed investors out of 37 billion just 7 years ago?
Hey, I'm all for shuting them down. But only through the proper mechanisms.
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :The idea that you MUST wait for law enforcement is ridiculous. If I am a landlord and someone notifies me(or I become aware in whatever manner) that one of my tenants is engaging in illegal activity on my property, then I am ABSOLUTELY obligated to investigate such activity and I am well within my rights to throw the f**k out anyone whom I find to be engaged in such. This is actually false. Tenants have considerable rights, depending on the state/city they live in. In many cases you cannot evict tenants because you have "investigated" and you believe they are doing something illegal, especially if they have a lease. In many cases you can't even evict them if they are convicted of a crime. To do so invites a large lawsuit. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to amigo_boy
If thats the case (an I do understand the desire), then we should be marching on wall street and dc with pitch forks and torches in a scene reminiscent of Frankenstein.
However, we are and always will be, above that. The minute we're not, then we become the criminals that we abhore!
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :said by Matt :they feel justified in taking action themselves. I wouldn't mind seeing a more militant mindset among Americans. We paint ourselves as patriotic, the home of the brave, etc. But, if you travel through other parts of the world, they have a much stronger expression of such traits. For example, in Latin America it's not uncommon to have annual demonstrations, often violent. Or, for labor sectors to shut down the country. Or, to walk through the main airport and find demonstrators disrupting operations (for better working conditions). It's all accepted as part of how society works. That it's better than "staying in line, and waiting for the authorities to take care of something." Occasionally we read stories about a group of neighbors who beat the heck out of a burglary (or child molestation) suspect before the police arrive. Everyone gets a tingly feeling about that. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some episodes like that involving corporate executives. Are you seriously advocating violent demonstrations as a normal everyday thing, and beatings of corporate executives? Is this troll/flamebait?
If you are being serious (which I doubt), I certainly don't want my country to be lke that. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
2 edits | said by MyDogHsFleas :If you are being serious (which I doubt), I certainly don't want my country to be lke that. It was just an observation. I like the calm and orderly nature of our society. But, it's contradictory to our gleamy-eyed depiction of ourselves as rebellious, independent, militant. Other countries are far more militant, and encourage militancy. Heck, there are countries in Latin America that *require* voting (under penalty of law). They emphasize participation in the process, and openly allow demonstrations. Not demonstrations like ours, where you need a permit to march, and a safely cordoned zone, at a certain time of day.
For people who take the US founders' rhetoric seriously, the Latin American model is closer to the mark. For example, Jefferson's admonishment that this country should have a revolution every 20 years(?).
Mark |
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