TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| reply to DVOOR8
Re: Global Crossing & Hurricane Electric looked other way ??
said by DVOOR8  :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. They have been notified for ages. They just made too much money to do anything about it until it made the National press in the form of the Wash Post story. Then the negative PR value MADE them take action. And when notified of problems, they should have started their own investigation and not depend on some reporters to do it for them.
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DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| said by TKJunkMail :said by DVOOR8 :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. They have been notified for ages. They just made too much money to do anything about it until it made the National press in the form of the Wash Post story. Then the negative PR value MADE them take action. And when notified of problems, they should have started their own investigation and not depend on some reporters to do it for them. Bandwidth providers are not investigative authorities and have no place doing any investigation into illegal activity or another companies actions.
If the proper authorities were notified by anyone or had a reason to act, suppliers of bandwidth ALWAYS comply with whatever law authorities request of them. Sounds to me that even law enforcement wasn't onto this. |
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emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX
| said by DVOOR8 :Bandwidth providers are not investigative authorities and have no place doing any investigation into illegal activity or another companies actions. If the proper authorities were notified by anyone or had a reason to act, suppliers of bandwidth ALWAYS comply with whatever law authorities request of them. Sounds to me that even law enforcement wasn't onto this. The idea that you MUST wait for law enforcement is ridiculous.
If I am a landlord and someone notifies me(or I become aware in whatever manner) that one of my tenants is engaging in illegal activity on my property, then I am ABSOLUTELY obligated to investigate such activity and I am well within my rights to throw the f**k out anyone whom I find to be engaged in such.
wig
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Please keep your f---ing religion to yourself. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Doing the right thing is very subjective in a society that allows for gratuitous violence and sex on the tube 24/7. People that have been trying to do the right thing are lambasted as a neocons. If federal or municiple authorities asked for compliance, then these 2 ISPs should adhere. Otherwise, you may be in a situation where allegations get innocents hurt. Why didn't this clown from the post run this past authorities...you know, the proper chain of command?
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| said by S_engineer :Why didn't this clown from the post run this past authorities...you know, the proper chain of command? The article ends by saying there is more to come, but he just wanted to get this part of the story out now.
I don't see anything wrong with a reporter contacting potential co-conspirators as part of the story. If he didn't contact them, there would have been nothing on record concerning their position prior to law enforcement action (if/when it occurs).
I also don't see anything wrong with a reporter publishing a story instead of contacting law enforcement (presumably keeping the story secret?). The reporter's has a job to do. Publishing the story is just one of many ways to alert law enforcement (through public pressure).
Mark |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Except for the fact that he may have just screwed a pending case. Not to mention there must be proof that these are violations of Global Crossings and Hurricanes policies. I think its hipocritical for people to ask for a form of "pseudo dumb pipe", and then bitch when they see some of the ramifications of those desires.
And is this the same Global Crossing that screwed investors out of 37 billion just 7 years ago?
Hey, I'm all for shuting them down. But only through the proper mechanisms.
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T Southwest
| reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :The idea that you MUST wait for law enforcement is ridiculous. If I am a landlord and someone notifies me(or I become aware in whatever manner) that one of my tenants is engaging in illegal activity on my property, then I am ABSOLUTELY obligated to investigate such activity and I am well within my rights to throw the f**k out anyone whom I find to be engaged in such. This is actually false. Tenants have considerable rights, depending on the state/city they live in. In many cases you cannot evict tenants because you have "investigated" and you believe they are doing something illegal, especially if they have a lease. In many cases you can't even evict them if they are convicted of a crime. To do so invites a large lawsuit. |
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emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX
| said by MyDogHsFleas :This is actually false. Tenants have considerable rights, depending on the state/city they live in. In many cases you cannot evict tenants because you have "investigated" and you believe they are doing something illegal, especially if they have a lease. In many cases you can't even evict them if they are convicted of a crime. To do so invites a large lawsuit. The lease says person won't engage in illegal activity on the property (network). They do. They're gone. If they want to argue, well then here are the police to arrest them for the illegal activity.
The child-porn hosts can sue when they get out of prison.
wig
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Please keep your f---ing religion to yourself. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Ever tried to have someone evicted? |
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DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :said by DVOOR8 :Bandwidth providers are not investigative authorities and have no place doing any investigation into illegal activity or another companies actions. If the proper authorities were notified by anyone or had a reason to act, suppliers of bandwidth ALWAYS comply with whatever law authorities request of them. Sounds to me that even law enforcement wasn't onto this. The idea that you MUST wait for law enforcement is ridiculous. If I am a landlord and someone notifies me(or I become aware in whatever manner) that one of my tenants is engaging in illegal activity on my property, then I am ABSOLUTELY obligated to investigate such activity and I am well within my rights to throw the f**k out anyone whom I find to be engaged in such. wig Actually Einstein, the idea that you should take the law into your own hands is what is ridiculous.
You cant, nor do you have the authority to investigate any illegal activity and have it result in ANYTHING.
Also, tenants have considerable rights and you would find yourself in trouble trying to kick anyone out of anywhere without due process.
I'm sure you have a bit of internet toughness going here but these are the facts. |
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DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online
| reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :said by MyDogHsFleas :This is actually false. Tenants have considerable rights, depending on the state/city they live in. In many cases you cannot evict tenants because you have "investigated" and you believe they are doing something illegal, especially if they have a lease. In many cases you can't even evict them if they are convicted of a crime. To do so invites a large lawsuit. The lease says person won't engage in illegal activity on the property (network). They do. They're gone. If they want to argue, well then here are the police to arrest them for the illegal activity. The child-porn hosts can sue when they get out of prison. wig Boy you guys don't get it huh?
Thats all fine and good but the landlord CAN NOT make the determination, convict anyone, or prove that something illegal has been going on without an official legal conviction. The tenant would still need to found GUILTY of something, and that requites the authorities. |
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mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Lawrence, KS | reply to Jodokast96
I've seen it done first hand. Lawyer makes proper filings for an eviction, people tossed out by cops in about a week (during which they were in jail for armed robbery). Didn't appear too difficult aside from getting a lawyer. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to DVOOR8
said by DVOOR8 :Bandwidth providers are not investigative authorities and have no place doing any investigation into illegal activity or another companies actions. Oh please, ISPs have been getting rid of people who "supposedly" abuse their connections with no proof for years.
 |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to mlundin
Several things come into play there though. The first is most likely a default judgement being issued since the individual was not present at the hearing. If someone offers up a defense, it usually lengthens the process significantly. Second, without a clear violation of the lease, notice usually has to be given well in advance, 30-60 days. Third, a good evidence of a lease violation must be presented. |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to mlundin
said by mlundin :I've seen it done first hand. Lawyer makes proper filings for an eviction, people tossed out by cops in about a week (during which they were in jail for armed robbery). Didn't appear too difficult aside from getting a lawyer. I don't know what state you live in, but that's totally false. First you file for eviction, then wait a while, go to court, the judge decides, gives them a max of 10 days to comply, then you can get the police to remove them. You don't need a lawyer to do this, anyone can (I have before) and even then you must have a good reason to tell the judge. In my case, it was lack of payment for the home, but a reason like "I think they are doing something illegal" would just be another court case and more time until the next trial to present your evidence before evicting them on top of another 10 days.
So I call BS on that.
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to emptywig
You are obviously not a landlord then because the rights and obligations of such do not extend to you investigating the activities of a tenant nor can you just up and throw someone out. State laws vary obviously, but for the most part evicting someone isnt done easily one afternoon and is generally a pretty long road that is in favor of the tenant, not the landlord.
In this case if the ISP's were aware of it then they should not have changed anything and gotten the proper authorities involved to investigate and collect evidence so the owners can be convicted. Otherwise they are simply going to go find another host and the process starts all over.
During that investigation the ISP's should be looked at as well to see if they were turning a blind eye to it. Not that I believe ISP's should be anything more than a dumbpipe, but if they are fully aware that they are being utilized for illegal activities, then they SHOULD be required to take the proper steps to aide authorities or brought to justice for not doing so. |
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RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
New York
1 edit | reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :The idea that you MUST wait for law enforcement is ridiculous. If I am a landlord and someone notifies me(or I become aware in whatever manner) that one of my tenants is engaging in illegal activity on my property, then I am ABSOLUTELY obligated to investigate such activity and I am well within my rights to throw the f**k out anyone whom I find to be engaged in such. If you tried that in New York, not only will a judge restore possession of the premises back to the tenant, but you as the landlord, would then be accountable for treble damages to the tenant for any losses he/she may incur as a result of an eviction that was done without a court order.
For what its worth, it takes anywhere from 3-6 months to evict someone in New York -- with the shorter cases involving tenants that have already vacated the premises (in which case the landlord still needs to receive the eviction order before he can make the property available for renting to a new tenant).
With that being said, I know a few people that act as landlords of their property.. Its very hard to get good tenants, and if you end up stuck with a real scumbag in your property, you could end up losing quite a bit of money.. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to emptywig
said by emptywig :The lease says person won't engage in illegal activity on the property (network). They do. They're gone. If they want to argue, well then here are the police to arrest them for the illegal activity. But the police aren't here. Only a court can make the declaration the illegal activity was done for the purpose of the lease, not you. McColo has excellent grounds to sue if they are innocent (probably not). |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to knightmb
It depends on state. On some, by just filing meaningless appeals you can extend it to 6 months before the eviction crew comes. In others, there is no due process, 1 day after the rent is due you file papers, 2-3 days later illegal occupation notice is served, and eviction crew can come whenever they want (when confirmation that the illegal occupation notice was served). The eviction date itself is never told to the occupant. So from 1 day late on the rent, by the end of the month you can have a new tenent in there. BTW, all you belongings go on the street. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to Skippy25
said by Skippy25 :During that investigation the ISP's should be looked at as well to see if they were turning a blind eye to it. Not that I believe ISP's should be anything more than a dumbpipe, but if they are fully aware that they are being utilized for illegal activities, then they SHOULD be required to take the proper steps to aide authorities or brought to justice for not doing so. Would the city water company be held responsible for providing city water to a chemical manufacturer that does environmental pollution into their backlot if some hippies told the city water company that the chemical manufacturer is using the water for illegal purposes? |
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