 DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24 USA
·Optimum Online
| reply to Rob Re: Global Crossing & Hurricane Electric looked other way ??
said by Rob :said by DVOOR8 :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. If you own a home, and you lease it out, and multiple people inform you that the people leasing your home are using it host sex with children, you wouldn't do anything about it? Your response would be "landlords don't have the duty to police the way tenants use the home" ? I doubt it very much. I bet you'd be the first one there, with a shotgun, a baseball bat, and ready to kick some ass. Wow, that is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have seen. I would do the right thing and contact the proper authorities and handle it like someone who cares about the outcome. I am not going to try and battle crime myself nor launch my own investigation for publicity which is what this was. |
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  Rob In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| said by DVOOR8 :said by Rob :said by DVOOR8 :I don't think it is bandwidth providers duty to police the way customers use the bandwidth they sell them. Why would they want to? That is a very dangerous slope to start down. If I sell paper clips and rubber bands, does that make me responsible for making sure children don't launch paper clips into another child's eye? The providers did the right thing, and pulled the service once they were shown proof of wrongdoing. If you own a home, and you lease it out, and multiple people inform you that the people leasing your home are using it host sex with children, you wouldn't do anything about it? Your response would be "landlords don't have the duty to police the way tenants use the home" ? I doubt it very much. I bet you'd be the first one there, with a shotgun, a baseball bat, and ready to kick some ass. Wow, that is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have seen. I would do the right thing and contact the proper authorities and handle it like someone who cares about the outcome. I am not going to try and battle crime myself nor launch my own investigation for publicity which is what this was. And what if the authorities did nothing? You would just ignore it?
Just let them continue to do what they do without taking any action?
Where does it become your responsibility? Never? |
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 SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| said by Rob :Where does it become your responsibility? Never? Most States have laws that punish and/or strongly disincentivize vigilantes. Suggest you become acquainted with yours otherwise you may find yourself sharing a jail cell with the same individual you thought you had a right to enforce the law upon. |
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  jhboricua ExMod 2000-01 join:2000-06-06 Minneapolis, MN clubs: | reply to Rob If the evidence is there, why would the authorities ignore it? |
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  Matt Take me down to the paradise city Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | said by jhboricua :If the evidence is there, why would the authorities ignore it? Some people just want any excuse to exercise their 2nd amendment rights, or at least their warped interpretation of it. So if the authorities don't show up, with a full contingent of SWAT operatives no less, they feel justified in taking action themselves. |
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  S_engineer
join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| and some people want any excuse to diminish the 2nd ammendment right, or at least their skewed interpretation of it. So if you're a landlord throwing people out on the street because of a false allegation, or an allegation that did not go through the proper channels, be prepared for a full contingent of lawyers to be talking about your case. And when your getting thrown out of your house because of a bogus judgement, what will you be able to do???? Nothing, because you've gotten rid of your 2nd ammendment right. -- "For duty and humanity!" - Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to Matt said by Matt :they feel justified in taking action themselves. I wouldn't mind seeing a more militant mindset among Americans. We paint ourselves as patriotic, the home of the brave, etc. But, if you travel through other parts of the world, they have a much stronger expression of such traits. For example, in Latin America it's not uncommon to have annual demonstrations, often violent. Or, for labor sectors to shut down the country. Or, to walk through the main airport and find demonstrators disrupting operations (for better working conditions). It's all accepted as part of how society works. That it's better than "staying in line, and waiting for the authorities to take care of something."
Occasionally we read stories about a group of neighbors who beat the heck out of a burglary (or child molestation) suspect before the police arrive. Everyone gets a tingly feeling about that. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some episodes like that involving corporate executives.
Mark |
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  S_engineer
join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| If thats the case (an I do understand the desire), then we should be marching on wall street and dc with pitch forks and torches in a scene reminiscent of Frankenstein.
However, we are and always will be, above that. The minute we're not, then we become the criminals that we abhore! -- "For duty and humanity!" - Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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 MyDogHsFleas Premium join:2007-08-15 Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to amigo_boy said by amigo_boy :said by Matt :they feel justified in taking action themselves. I wouldn't mind seeing a more militant mindset among Americans. We paint ourselves as patriotic, the home of the brave, etc. But, if you travel through other parts of the world, they have a much stronger expression of such traits. For example, in Latin America it's not uncommon to have annual demonstrations, often violent. Or, for labor sectors to shut down the country. Or, to walk through the main airport and find demonstrators disrupting operations (for better working conditions). It's all accepted as part of how society works. That it's better than "staying in line, and waiting for the authorities to take care of something." Occasionally we read stories about a group of neighbors who beat the heck out of a burglary (or child molestation) suspect before the police arrive. Everyone gets a tingly feeling about that. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some episodes like that involving corporate executives. Are you seriously advocating violent demonstrations as a normal everyday thing, and beatings of corporate executives? Is this troll/flamebait?
If you are being serious (which I doubt), I certainly don't want my country to be lke that. |
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  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
2 edits | said by MyDogHsFleas :If you are being serious (which I doubt), I certainly don't want my country to be lke that. It was just an observation. I like the calm and orderly nature of our society. But, it's contradictory to our gleamy-eyed depiction of ourselves as rebellious, independent, militant. Other countries are far more militant, and encourage militancy. Heck, there are countries in Latin America that *require* voting (under penalty of law). They emphasize participation in the process, and openly allow demonstrations. Not demonstrations like ours, where you need a permit to march, and a safely cordoned zone, at a certain time of day.
For people who take the US founders' rhetoric seriously, the Latin American model is closer to the mark. For example, Jefferson's admonishment that this country should have a revolution every 20 years(?).
Mark |
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  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to S_engineer said by S_engineer :If thats the case (an I do understand the desire), then we should be marching on wall street and dc with pitch forks and torches in a scene reminiscent of Frankenstein. I agree. And, you have to admit, if we validated such "justice" we'd probably see more caution among execuctives (as it pertains to AIG's lavish parties after taxpayer bailout. Or, obscene differences in compensation.).
I'm not saying I'd prefer such a society. But, I'm not sure I prefer a society where it seems like people get away with anything, and have no shame, because the masses don't seem to be ashamed by *anything*.
When I'm in Latin America and see workers lawfully protesting inside the airport (not just silently walking in circles, but making violent, disruptive noise using musical instruments) it makes me wish we were a little less tolerant of things that should make us angry.
Mark |
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  S_engineer
join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to amigo_boy said by amigo_boy :said by MyDogHsFleas :If you are being serious (which I doubt), I certainly don't want my country to be lke that. For people who take the US founders' rhetoric seriously, the Latin American model is closer to the mark. For example, Jefferson's admonishment that this country should have a revolution ever 20 years(?). Mark And the purpose of revolting was to keep our government powers in check. My how we've strayed. But many of those rights have also been tweaked towards perfection. But human right violations are an integral part of the latin American model. Are we too supposed to emulate that? |
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 hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH | reply to jhboricua And you would want this to happen to your kids: »www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl···07160322 |
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  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to S_engineer said by S_engineer :But human right violations are an integral part of the latin American model. Are we too supposed to emulate that? We used to. And it took behavior considered "uppity" by those who liked the status quo. Latin American tolerance (even encouragement) of popular protest is part of preventing such abuses. Silence would likely lead to resurgences of dictatorships.
Like I said. I like our calm, content, orderly society. It has its benefits. But, it has its downside too. Such as abusers who feel there's no limit to popular "norms" (acceptance = validation, etc.).
Mark |
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 DVOOR8
join:2001-12-24 USA
·Optimum Online
| reply to Rob said by Rob :And what if the authorities did nothing? You would just ignore it? Just let them continue to do what they do without taking any action? Where does it become your responsibility? Never? If the proper law enforcement agencies decided not to pursue it, I would move to report it to the next layer of enforcement authority. Why would I take the cause up myself?
What would you do? Grab a lynchin' rope and rustle up a posse? - Yeah, sure you would. |
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  S_engineer
join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to amigo_boy said by amigo_boy :said by S_engineer :If thats the case (an I do understand the desire), then we should be marching on wall street and dc with pitch forks and torches in a scene reminiscent of Frankenstein. I agree. And, you have to admit, if we validated such "justice" we'd probably see more caution among execuctives (as it pertains to AIG's lavish parties after taxpayer bailout. Or, obscene differences in compensation.). I'm not saying I'd prefer such a society. But, I'm not sure I prefer a society where it seems like people get away with anything, and have no shame, because the masses don't seem to be ashamed by *anything*. When I'm in Latin America and see workers lawfully protesting inside the airport (not just silently walking in circles, but making violent, disruptive noise using musical instruments) it makes me wish we were a little less tolerant of things that should make us angry. Mark The validation that you and many others seek won't put the money back in your pocket...however you'd get a pretty good nights sleep. As far as protests, you can see such discourse anywhere that there are collective bargaining agreements left. Unfortunately, theres not too many of those regions left. For years we've had the "cowboy" attitude as a nation under the Bush administration. The supporters of this plan were labeled as neocons. And all of the hipocrites that blasted gov't for giving the telecoms immunity for doing "the right thing" are in here with the same vigilance as the gov't was at that time. |
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  S_engineer
join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to amigo_boy said by amigo_boy :said by S_engineer :But human right violations are an integral part of the latin American model. Are we too supposed to emulate that? We used to. And it took behavior considered "uppity" by those who liked the status quo. Latin American tolerance (even encouragement) of popular protest is part of preventing such abuses. Silence would likely lead to resurgences of dictatorships. Like I said. I like our calm, content, orderly society. It has its benefits. But, it has its downside too. Such as abusers who feel there's no limit to popular "norms" (acceptance = validation, etc.). Mark Mark, if you've traveled as I have, you know it's still the best game in town! |
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 moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to amigo_boy said by amigo_boy :For example, in Latin America it's not uncommon to have annual demonstrations, often violent. Or, for labor sectors to shut down the country. Or, to walk through the main airport and find demonstrators disrupting operations (for better working conditions). It's all accepted as part of how society works. That it's better than "staying in line, and waiting for the authorities to take care of something." For someone who has seen those demonstrations first hand, your entire statement speaks volumes of how ignorant you really are.
Those demonstrations do NOTHING but give the governments the excuse to crack down and beat the crap out of protesters and rarely help the situation. |
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 DemonicLlama
join:2007-11-19 Potomac, MD | reply to Rob If the authorities did nothing, the wash post would print the story.....right after more election coverage. |
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  amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to S_engineer said by S_engineer :Unfortunately, theres not too many of those regions left. That's my only point. "Calm, orderly, content and knowing one's place" has it's merits. But, it has its downside too. One could say we, collectively will tolerate a lot more behavior which would have been considered outrageous decades ago. We'd still be under British rule if we followed today's sense of playing nicely.
I don't know where the balance should be. But, when exposed to other cultures, I often feel we've gone too far toward civility and "herd" behavior. But, I agree with others that daily street vengeance wouldn't be pleasant either.
Mark |
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