 jhboricuaExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN | reply to Rob
Re: Global Crossing & Hurricane Electric looked other way ?? If the evidence is there, why would the authorities ignore it? |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12
1 edit | said by jhboricua:If the evidence is there, why would the authorities ignore it? Some people just want any excuse to exercise their 2nd amendment rights, or at least their warped interpretation of it. So if the authorities don't show up, with a full contingent of SWAT operatives no less, they feel justified in taking action themselves. |
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| and some people want any excuse to diminish the 2nd ammendment right, or at least their skewed interpretation of it. So if you're a landlord throwing people out on the street because of a false allegation, or an allegation that did not go through the proper channels, be prepared for a full contingent of lawyers to be talking about your case. And when your getting thrown out of your house because of a bogus judgement, what will you be able to do????
Nothing, because you've gotten rid of your 2nd ammendment right.
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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1 edit | reply to Matt
said by Matt:they feel justified in taking action themselves. I wouldn't mind seeing a more militant mindset among Americans. We paint ourselves as patriotic, the home of the brave, etc. But, if you travel through other parts of the world, they have a much stronger expression of such traits. For example, in Latin America it's not uncommon to have annual demonstrations, often violent. Or, for labor sectors to shut down the country. Or, to walk through the main airport and find demonstrators disrupting operations (for better working conditions). It's all accepted as part of how society works. That it's better than "staying in line, and waiting for the authorities to take care of something."
Occasionally we read stories about a group of neighbors who beat the heck out of a burglary (or child molestation) suspect before the police arrive. Everyone gets a tingly feeling about that. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some episodes like that involving corporate executives.
Mark |
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| If thats the case (an I do understand the desire), then we should be marching on wall street and dc with pitch forks and torches in a scene reminiscent of Frankenstein.
However, we are and always will be, above that. The minute we're not, then we become the criminals that we abhore!
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by Matt:they feel justified in taking action themselves. I wouldn't mind seeing a more militant mindset among Americans. We paint ourselves as patriotic, the home of the brave, etc. But, if you travel through other parts of the world, they have a much stronger expression of such traits. For example, in Latin America it's not uncommon to have annual demonstrations, often violent. Or, for labor sectors to shut down the country. Or, to walk through the main airport and find demonstrators disrupting operations (for better working conditions). It's all accepted as part of how society works. That it's better than "staying in line, and waiting for the authorities to take care of something." Occasionally we read stories about a group of neighbors who beat the heck out of a burglary (or child molestation) suspect before the police arrive. Everyone gets a tingly feeling about that. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some episodes like that involving corporate executives. Are you seriously advocating violent demonstrations as a normal everyday thing, and beatings of corporate executives? Is this troll/flamebait?
If you are being serious (which I doubt), I certainly don't want my country to be lke that. |
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2 edits | said by MyDogHsFleas:If you are being serious (which I doubt), I certainly don't want my country to be lke that. It was just an observation. I like the calm and orderly nature of our society. But, it's contradictory to our gleamy-eyed depiction of ourselves as rebellious, independent, militant. Other countries are far more militant, and encourage militancy. Heck, there are countries in Latin America that *require* voting (under penalty of law). They emphasize participation in the process, and openly allow demonstrations. Not demonstrations like ours, where you need a permit to march, and a safely cordoned zone, at a certain time of day.
For people who take the US founders' rhetoric seriously, the Latin American model is closer to the mark. For example, Jefferson's admonishment that this country should have a revolution every 20 years(?).
Mark |
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·magicjack.com
| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer:If thats the case (an I do understand the desire), then we should be marching on wall street and dc with pitch forks and torches in a scene reminiscent of Frankenstein. I agree. And, you have to admit, if we validated such "justice" we'd probably see more caution among execuctives (as it pertains to AIG's lavish parties after taxpayer bailout. Or, obscene differences in compensation.).
I'm not saying I'd prefer such a society. But, I'm not sure I prefer a society where it seems like people get away with anything, and have no shame, because the masses don't seem to be ashamed by *anything*.
When I'm in Latin America and see workers lawfully protesting inside the airport (not just silently walking in circles, but making violent, disruptive noise using musical instruments) it makes me wish we were a little less tolerant of things that should make us angry.
Mark |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by MyDogHsFleas:If you are being serious (which I doubt), I certainly don't want my country to be lke that. For people who take the US founders' rhetoric seriously, the Latin American model is closer to the mark. For example, Jefferson's admonishment that this country should have a revolution ever 20 years(?). Mark And the purpose of revolting was to keep our government powers in check. My how we've strayed. But many of those rights have also been tweaked towards perfection. But human right violations are an integral part of the latin American model. Are we too supposed to emulate that? |
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| reply to jhboricua
And you would want this to happen to your kids: »www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl···07160322 |
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1 edit | reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer:But human right violations are an integral part of the latin American model. Are we too supposed to emulate that? We used to. And it took behavior considered "uppity" by those who liked the status quo. Latin American tolerance (even encouragement) of popular protest is part of preventing such abuses. Silence would likely lead to resurgences of dictatorships.
Like I said. I like our calm, content, orderly society. It has its benefits. But, it has its downside too. Such as abusers who feel there's no limit to popular "norms" (acceptance = validation, etc.).
Mark |
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said by amigo_boy:said by S_engineer:If thats the case (an I do understand the desire), then we should be marching on wall street and dc with pitch forks and torches in a scene reminiscent of Frankenstein. I agree. And, you have to admit, if we validated such "justice" we'd probably see more caution among execuctives (as it pertains to AIG's lavish parties after taxpayer bailout. Or, obscene differences in compensation.). I'm not saying I'd prefer such a society. But, I'm not sure I prefer a society where it seems like people get away with anything, and have no shame, because the masses don't seem to be ashamed by *anything*. When I'm in Latin America and see workers lawfully protesting inside the airport (not just silently walking in circles, but making violent, disruptive noise using musical instruments) it makes me wish we were a little less tolerant of things that should make us angry. Mark The validation that you and many others seek won't put the money back in your pocket...however you'd get a pretty good nights sleep. As far as protests, you can see such discourse anywhere that there are collective bargaining agreements left. Unfortunately, theres not too many of those regions left.
For years we've had the "cowboy" attitude as a nation under the Bush administration. The supporters of this plan were labeled as neocons. And all of the hipocrites that blasted gov't for giving the telecoms immunity for doing "the right thing" are in here with the same vigilance as the gov't was at that time. |
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by S_engineer:But human right violations are an integral part of the latin American model. Are we too supposed to emulate that? We used to. And it took behavior considered "uppity" by those who liked the status quo. Latin American tolerance (even encouragement) of popular protest is part of preventing such abuses. Silence would likely lead to resurgences of dictatorships. Like I said. I like our calm, content, orderly society. It has its benefits. But, it has its downside too. Such as abusers who feel there's no limit to popular "norms" (acceptance = validation, etc.). Mark Mark, if you've traveled as I have, you know it's still the best game in town! |
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said by amigo_boy:For example, in Latin America it's not uncommon to have annual demonstrations, often violent. Or, for labor sectors to shut down the country. Or, to walk through the main airport and find demonstrators disrupting operations (for better working conditions). It's all accepted as part of how society works. That it's better than "staying in line, and waiting for the authorities to take care of something." For someone who has seen those demonstrations first hand, your entire statement speaks volumes of how ignorant you really are.
Those demonstrations do NOTHING but give the governments the excuse to crack down and beat the crap out of protesters and rarely help the situation. |
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said by S_engineer:Unfortunately, theres not too many of those regions left. That's my only point. "Calm, orderly, content and knowing one's place" has it's merits. But, it has its downside too. One could say we, collectively will tolerate a lot more behavior which would have been considered outrageous decades ago. We'd still be under British rule if we followed today's sense of playing nicely.
I don't know where the balance should be. But, when exposed to other cultures, I often feel we've gone too far toward civility and "herd" behavior. But, I agree with others that daily street vengeance wouldn't be pleasant either.
Mark |
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| reply to S_engineer
said by S_engineer:if you've traveled as I have, you know it's still the best game in town! Better in some ways. Not in others. This shouldn't have to boil down to "love it, or leave it." There should be room to discuss the pros and cons of how our country has matured. Maturing is not always good. If you're older, I'm sure you can think of a few examples of what I mean.
Mark |
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·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy:Those demonstrations do NOTHING but give the governments the excuse to crack down and beat the crap out of protesters and rarely help the situation. But, your contention is that, if commoners were less "uppity" (stayed home, engaged in calm discourse), things would be better. That's largely how dictatorships arose in the 70s - 80s (with US assistance, I might add).
Your argument could have (and was) applied to the US founders too.
Mark |
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| reply to amigo_boy
theres always room for improvement. And as a maturing adult, I certainly feel the pain. One of the most troublesome aspects that has formed in recent years is the merely competitive nature of business morphing into the crisis model thats now in place. This is not only in business, but its in gov't at every level. This marketing technique is used to create shortfalls in budgets, but also to shape our policies, and recently used with several presidential candidates. But you can't keep looking at what the "Joneses" across the borders have, because behind close doors, they have plenty of their own grief!
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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·magicjack.com
3 edits | said by S_engineer:But you can't keep looking at what the "Joneses" across the borders have, because behind close doors, they have plenty of their own grief! I agree they have their own grief. But, that shouldn't mean we can't consider what's possibly better.
Many of our problems seem to be attributable to apathy, or contentedness, or how we've written into law how every little thing should work (instead of encouraging the use of common sense, however imperfect that is in daily operation).
For example, I think there's something to be said for forcing all eligible adults to vote (done in some Latin American countries) as a way to keep the population engaged and reminded of their *duty* to participate, rather than expect someone else to fix problems. It has its downside too. (I'm not sure I'd want people voting who don't want to vote.) But, it's at least a step toward addressing a problem which I don't see us even trying to.
Mark |
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| Let me ask you something rhetorically, and I don't mean to demean. Are you raising a family? Do you have several jobs?
The reason why I ask because I'm not sure people without kids understand the obligations that MUST be met just to maintain necessities. This becomes an induced apathy because you don't have time to monitor the representative you've elected in your particular corner of the earth. I think this is the case with most working adults. It is peoples duty to participate, but it's also their duty to imform themselves about legislation. And what good is legislation if you're going to bypass it with a lynch mob mentality.
In addition, forcing an electorate would only fuel marketing to the ignorant.
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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