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pianoman1976

join:2003-04-05
Northridge, CA

Traceroute Question

Hello,

My traceroute results show repeated hops going back and forth from LA (me) to the east coast (Virginia and DC). These servers are not only on opposite sides of the country but they are reflecting serious latency. I can understand hoping over to the east coast maybe once, but back and forth!? This doesn't seem efficient.

Is this normal? I'd also like to know if my ISP (Time Warner-Road Runner) controls this, or if the route my signal takes is just some random path? Can I take this up with my ISP, or is this something that's out of their hands?

Thanks.


--
www.myspace.com/ryanchristianrobles


jimbopalmer
Tsar of all the Rushers

join:2008-06-02
Greenwood, MS
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

1 edit

Visual Trace route is guessing wrong
I am willing to bet tustcal is not in VA but in Tustin CA
I am willing to bet resdcal is not in DC but in Reseda CA

Notice that your trace route claims it only took 1 ms to get from Herndon VA to Chatsworth CA and then 1 ms to get back to DC? Didn't happen, that signal stayed in CA

The only slowdown in your trace route is step 7 where you REALLY did go from DC to CA in 67 ms, which is normal.

»maps.google.com/maps?q=Washingto···N&tab=wl
says 2672 miles shortest possible path by interstates, TRACERT goes both ways so 5344 miles
Fiber optic cable is .6 the speed of light in vacuum

so 5344 miles /(186000 miles per second *.6) * 1000 = 48 ms

At least 48 of the 67 ms are the time spent as light, the other 19 ms is the switching/routing over head and time taking a less than optimal path.
--
I tried to remain child-like, all I achieved was childish.


K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH
kudos:1
reply to pianoman1976

Don't believe any trace route program that purports to tell you where routers are located. most IP address records do not accurately show the location of the IP.

You have to infer it from router names.


pianoman1976

join:2003-04-05
Northridge, CA

1 edit
reply to jimbopalmer

Thanks for the clarification.

I'd like to know why hops 13-16 bounce back and forth before reaching me? Is this normal?

Additionally I'd like to know per my origianl post if the path my signal takes is managed by my ISP.

Thanks!


jimbopalmer
Tsar of all the Rushers

join:2008-06-02
Greenwood, MS
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

1 edit
reply to pianoman1976

13 to 16 is wrong , and those are all Roadrunner routers, so it is under Time Warner's control. (there would be no point whining to Time Warner before step 10)

Roadrunner inherited So Cal from Comcast in 2006, and it is getting harder and harder to believe they just have not figured out how to run what they were given. One suspects malice somewhere, stupidity is getting old as an excuse.

»maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=t···TF8&z=10
--
I tried to remain child-like, all I achieved was childish.


K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH
kudos:1
reply to pianoman1976

The internet is mostly a self-managing network. There aren't aa bunch of folks sitting around at pc's hand-entering routing tables. The routes are determined by protocols that involving adjacent routers telling each other what IP addresses they offer connection to. RR's control is mostly in the form of designing the network and giving some guidance in the form of priorities, path weights, etc.

In the case of your trace route, it appears to me that there were two alternative paths somewhere in the loop, and when it did the trace for hop 15 it was using an alternative path that was two hops longer, making the router that originally appeared at hop 13 to now reappear as hop 15. If the trace got stuck in an infinite loop between the routers, you would see it. It wouldn't get out of the loop after two tries.



en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Northridge was a Time Warner area before Comcast/Adelphia purchase. Chatsworth has a huge office.
Up here over the hill in Santa Clarita is where things get 'unique'.
Valencia zipcodes area former Comcast, while everything that surrounds it (Stevenson's Ranch, Canyon Country, Saugus) were all Time Warner.
If I were to run a traceroute to from Valencia to Stevenson's Ranch, it would go down trough L.A. and back (down through L.A. on old Comcast network, back through Time Warner network) even though we're ~ 1 mile apart.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to pianoman1976

The only data I'd rely on to infer geo-location is hop name and latency. Consider:

11/19/08 01:43:17 Slow traceroute 72.134.32.40
Trace 72.134.32.40 ...
192.168.0.1     RTT:   0ms TTL:170 (suzuka.aosake.net ok)
69.105.225.254  RTT:  10ms TTL:170 (adsl-69-105-225-254.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ok)
64.164.107.130  RTT:   9ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
151.164.93.231  RTT:   9ms TTL:170 (bb1-g15-0.pltnca.sbcglobal.net ok)
151.164.191.201 RTT:   9ms TTL:170 (ex1-p9-0.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net ok)
151.164.249.78  RTT:  10ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
66.109.6.136    RTT:  10ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
66.109.6.7      RTT:  19ms TTL:170 (ae-4-0.cr0.lax00.tbone.rr.com probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
66.109.6.103    RTT:  19ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
66.75.161.48    RTT:  22ms TTL:170 (ae10.tustca1-rtr1.socal.rr.com ok)
66.75.145.12    RTT:  26ms TTL:170 (xe-0-0-0.chswca1-rtr2.socal.rr.com ok)
66.75.145.29    RTT:  46ms TTL:170 (ae5-resdca1-rtr2.socal.rr.com ok)
24.24.193.149   RTT:  50ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
* * * failed
* * * failed
* * * failed
* * * failed
* 24.24.193.149   RTT:  44ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)
* * * failed
* * * failed
 
This trace is entirely inside of California. First hop is the D-Link DIR-655 sitting on the printer stand beside my computer desk. Then a DSL aggregation router in Pleasanton, California (ATTIS is DSL to the DSLAM and ATM to the aggregation router, so no intermediary IP hops between my router and their first router). Past the no-name router at [66.109.6.103] I am going through many of the same hops to your IP address.

Both 'pacbell.net' and 'sbcglobal.net' are part of the AT&T Internet Services (ATTIS) transit network; somewhat similar to Road Runner's 'tbone' network.

Anyway, 'pltnca', 'sjca', 'irvnca', 'lax', 'tustca', 'chswca', and 'resdca' all appear to match city names in either the S.F. Bay Area, or L.A. Metro.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum