FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:  | reply to chrisretusn
Re: Average Salaries of I.T. Professionals
Thanks for that link! For the specific city in which I live and work, it shows that I am somewhere around the 38th percentile in earnings for the single category of Computer Software Engineer (Applications)...
- FM |
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chrisretusn
Retired
Premium
join:2007-08-13
Philippines | reply to FutureMon
Here is some more data for you to ponder.
Bureau of Labor Statistics Wages by Area and Occupation
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Chris
Living in Paradise!! |
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GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ
| reply to FutureMon
I skimmed the thread and here's something to consider. You seem to be in a small company and there's no one representing you other then yourself.
If you feel you deserve an increase and from what I read, you are a valued employee, a discussion point could be what would it cost to replace me? So you don't want to say you're leaving, and asking that question might make them think hard.
With the above, forget the company knowledge/experience you have which can't be found on the street if you left. Mention it, but discuss finding someone that does networking, sysadmin work, DBA, application development and web development. It is usually harder to find those as many folks in the industry are more geared towards one or two specific areas and not a "one man shop". If they could find one person, how much would it cost them? If they needed 2, how much would that cost them?
I'm closer to the higher end of the IT ladder then the lower rungs and there are jobs out there even in this economy. The majority of companies might not be expanding, but folks are still switching jobs and if there aren't head count freezes, people need to be replaced. IT workers are already working at 100% so when someone leaves, if they aren't replaced, project work needs to be deferred and the business side of the company has a tough time dealing with not getting their project work done.
So I would always suggest to folks to keep their resume updated for a few reasons. First is you never know when you might need it because you've been let go. Another is that folks do a tremendous amount of work that over time they don't remember. If you constantly keep it updated with relevant material, you won't forget and you'll be prepared if an opportunities does come around that you might be interested in.
But remember, that if you're happy with what you're doing each day, that is worth a lot. If you got 20% more at another job and were miserable, was it a good decision? It wouldn't be a good decision for me.
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normat
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
clubs:
| reply to FutureMon
As far as software development goes (c#/Java) most of the the people I know tend to make anywhere from 70-110K base salary. Most are somewhat in the middle of that figure.
A bit depends on the company and how much they value their talent. The costs of outsourcing can be quite high and result in shoddy work. |
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Kylemaul
Lovin' My Firefox 1.5.x
Premium
join:2001-03-30
North Port, FL
clubs:
1 edit | reply to FutureMon
..nm.. |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
| reply to JAAulde
Times aren't tough. In fact we're bringing 4 new clients online within the next 3 months (equating to tens of thousands of new "customers").
Our current infrastructure can't even handle what we have today, and I'm tasked with a migration effort from Access 2003 over to C#, Sql 2005 and .NET.
- FM |
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JAAulde
yum yum yum yum yum
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-09
Hagerstown, MD | reply to FutureMon
Well, that's better anyway. If times are tough for the company that's one thing. If they're spineless it's another. Glad they recognized their spinelessness and moved in a better direction.
Congrats. |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
| reply to JAAulde
The owners called me into their office this morning. They wanted to re-address the review. Said they didn't go home with "warm fuzzies" about everything we had discussed and how it came out and that they didn't think I felt very good about it either...and told me I'd be receiving a 3% increase effective immediately, along with a move towards a management role over the next few months coupled with some training classes they want me to take... No real guarantees of promotion though.
They want me to know I'm valued and that they consider me a long term investment in the company. I guess they realized that by flipping me the bird in my review they were risking losing me...
So I feel a little bit better now. 3% is better than 0%... They showed up at my office and asked to talk with me as I was in the process of writing a rebuttal to my review that I was going to give them later today... 
- FM |
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JAAulde
yum yum yum yum yum
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-09
Hagerstown, MD | reply to FutureMon
Yeah...If they pinned their very survival on you and chickened out of showing you any appreciation because of some other crybaby employee, the you definitely don't need to be working there if you can find good work elsewhere. |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
2 edits | reply to TheRul
Well the review is over. And I quote "If it weren't for what you've done for us over the last year, we'd be out of business right now".
However, no promotion and no salary increase. They're afraid the I.T. contractor would quit on them if they made me manager...
Time for me to get a little more proactive in my job search.
- FM |
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TheRul
You couldn't think of something?
Premium
join:2007-09-18
Victorville, CA | reply to FutureMon
I know you weren't pointing the finger at me. But it was funny damn it! |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
| reply to TheRul
said by TheRul  :said by FutureMon :said by TheRul :Yeah, but you always had an inflated sense of self, as I can see that has increased soo much that you needed a beard!  Good luck with the assement, it looks like they keep you hopping. My days of self-imposed modesty in the workplace are largely gone. I got tired of being stepped on, outsourced or having my work efforts plagiarized. - FM Should I tell Mercury about the Ideas I stole from you, then? All I have to say about that is, IT's about time! I wasn't pointing my finger at you... In fact, Mercury was pretty good about that particular issue...it was previous companies where I worked with a lot of H1-B Visa holders... At Citibank, man, you'd better watch your back...but I suppose that's no more. I heard they closed down the Citibank Development Center a few years back...(They prolly outsourced the entire operation to India)
- FM |
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TheRul
You couldn't think of something?
Premium
join:2007-09-18
Victorville, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to FutureMon
said by FutureMon :said by TheRul :Yeah, but you always had an inflated sense of self, as I can see that has increased soo much that you needed a beard! Good luck with the assement, it looks like they keep you hopping. My days of self-imposed modesty in the workplace are largely gone. I got tired of being stepped on, outsourced or having my work efforts plagiarized. - FM Should I tell Mercury about the Ideas I stole from you, then?
All I have to say about that is, IT's about time! |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
| reply to TheRul
said by TheRul :Yeah, but you always had an inflated sense of self, as I can see that has increased soo much that you needed a beard! Good luck with the assement, it looks like they keep you hopping. My days of self-imposed modesty in the workplace are largely gone. I got tired of being stepped on, outsourced or having my work efforts plagiarized.
- FM |
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TheRul
You couldn't think of something?
Premium
join:2007-09-18
Victorville, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to FutureMon
Yeah, but you always had an inflated sense of self, as I can see that has increased soo much that you needed a beard!
Good luck with the assement, it looks like they keep you hopping. |
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
1 edit | reply to Gomez
Well I believe some of the things I do fall into that category because the technology in the company I work for involves managing multiple business entities within a single business model, using enterprise level development platforms to do it. Sql Server 2005, Visual Studio 2003 (ya I know we need to upgrade...lol) and Quickbooks Enterprise Edition. (Don't laugh!)
Each jurisdiction we support has their own rules and regulations to follow and our software must be able to communicate with each of them (inhale their data in various formats, perform their billing for them, and present their data back to them the way they want to see it), all the while maintaining a semblance of a standard business model internally.
Our Collections "partner" uses DB2 on their end, and we are also in the process of building an automated solution to transmit and receive updates between each other when payments are received on either side. So you could say, with our current 15 clients (cities and counties) and one partner (a collection agency), we've got 16 "integrated" solutions that all feed into a single software package on our end. I'd call that enterprise application integration.
- FM |
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Gomez
Been drinking brew for breakfast?
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-21
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
 ·Speakeasy
Host:
Pub Games
It is the economy,..
Clearwire
| reply to FutureMon
The numbers don't jive with reality, as that's very geographically diverse as the ratio of cost of living and income varies.. Although there are some sweet spots.
The positions don't jive either.. "Enterprise application integration" huh ?!?! you're Fortune 100 before that position even exists. The vast majority are under fortune 500.. most, far below..
Closest I have is "Application Developer", which is in reality multi-tiered, at junior, mid, senior, manager...
The article does not approach reality.
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FutureMon
OW My Eyes
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:
| reply to wapu
Well I turned in my self assessment today. My review is on Tuesday.
I went through at least 10 different drafts before I came up with the final version.
The first one showed a very angry person who expected a lot out of the review - stemming from various positive and negative personal experiences at the company.
The final one shows a person who is very confident in his accomplisments, knows where he needs to improve, and rather than simply stating the things he disagrees with, it suggests ways to improve them instead.
They've got the weekend and Monday to review it. Hopefully things will go well. And I've got my spreadsheet with the financials on it as backup for when the time comes to discuss any potential increase they may or may not offer up.
The 28% below-average figure I quoted in my original post, if slashed in half, would be about where I expect to land coming out of this review.
Wish me luck!
- FM |
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wapu
Broadband Ranger
Premium
join:2001-09-05
Germantown, MD
clubs:
| reply to FutureMon
I have always been concerned that my salary was lower than what showed up on those surveys. Then I had a co worker who was chosen to take one. He told me he added $15K to the salary portion as a network administrator. His reasoning was that our boss took those surveys into account so if he was able to inflate the average he could see a bigger raise.
I gave him all the arguments about why that was wrong, but as the discussion spread to the rest of the IT staff, I found I was in the minority.
I find negotiating salary terribly difficult. Especially when I can't define my job completely in the categories of salary.com and other surveys like these. Take Enterprise Resource Planning on the Staffers graph. What exactly does that mean? A Large ERP System like SAP or JD Edwards/Peoplesoft/oracle or whatever it is now, is huge and complex. Does that mean you know everything about every module? Are you implementing the ERP System? Developing within it? Integrating outside systems with it? Designing the process flow within the system? I am just not sure what Enterprise Resource Planning means in the surveys.
One interesting thing I read, and I think it was in Information Week, was that the average person making more than $100K/Year moved employers at least 4 times prior to their current position. That was part of my reasoning for leaving the place I was at for 9 years prior to where I am now. I would love to find out if it is true, but have been unsuccessful at find the place I read it.
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People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power.
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johnnyboyct
join:2003-06-11
Newington, CT
 ·Cox HSI
| reply to cowboyro
said by cowboyro : I could make easily 15k more doing the same job if I wanted to commute ~1.5-2h each way (due to traffic, it's only 40-45 miles). But no thanks, I make enough (above the "average") in a decent place with great benefits and big bonuses We finally agree on something :P If I commuted to the Stamford / NY are (which is where I get most of the calls for), I could be making a decent amount more, but I drive about 10 miles each way now outside of Hartford  There is also more people trying for the jobs in the less tech centric areas though, which SOMETIMES will slightly even it out.
I got lucky this time though. Great company, good money, so far a more then fair bonus, another one when I had my baby, and most important, they make you feel appreciated and dont micro manage. Very important in my book.
Its sad though about the managers making so much more. Hes still walking around installing software on individual pcs, let alone installing everything manually on format/new pcs.... 
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