DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to zaptor99
Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20
Ok so take a look
»www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008···qna.html
Excerpt
"But by looking at the issues we also recognized that there are some more fundamental issues here because Bell and all the carriers own their networks and they claim they have the right to manage their traffic how they choose. We're saying, 'Is there something we should be looking at in regards to the extent to which their rights to manage their network ... infringe on other peoples' rights?' We're saying, 'Let's have a public notice and take a look at all the issues, not just one company, but all the companies, and not just one group of customers but all customers, and see if there really is a need for us to define guidelines or not in this case.'"
"The evidence before us, as filed and defended or criticized by the parties … it was a public, transparent process. All the information was provided. We took a look at the evidence and the submissions of the parties and made a finding with regard to the specific claim and allegation, but also recognized there are broader issues we do need to get involved in, and that's why we issued the public notice."
CBCNews.ca: The [Canadian Association of Internet Providers] and its members have complained that they weren't notified in October that the decision would be delayed, or that a ruling was coming on Thursday. Can you shed any light on why weren't they notified in advance of either event?
Katz: None at all. I don't know what the timelines are. Usually the commission makes a decision and it goes to the lawyers and writers to craft the decision. Then we're told when it goes out and we put together the appropriate machinery to get it out the door. I have no idea who was notified, when they were notified or who was given advance notice or not. I would think we treat everybody the same. No idea at all.
craft the decision ? .. wtf . anyone? definition of craft ? hah
what i got out of this from the CRTC was that " it could go one way .. or ther other.. and they obviouslyjust went with Bell on this one .. based purely on submissions.
NOW they want public input to formulate the next decision.
they only really looked at the piece of this and looked the wrong way .
Now they want publics voice... |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to mlerner
said by mlerner  :The hardware would not be cheap. »quozl.linux.org.au/openwrt/power···peed.txt
Sounds like you can get 24 mbitps using blowfish on a wrt54g, more than enough for ADSL. A Linksys with custom firmware turning it into a VPN/hardware encryption device. Bell can't DPI the traffic then, except traffic shape the 1 unknown VPN connection through packetloss which is a natural speed limiter. VPNs are unlikely to be subject to DPI because of corporate users complaining. Also one of the congestion arguments (a bunch of TCP connections from a p2p user will squeeze the 1 TCP connection by a HTTP user, since TCP tends to balance out each connection to an equal share of the media/pipe). |
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fiestaware
join:2008-01-07
·Bell Sympatico
·Acanac
| reply to Tack
said by Tack :said by fiestaware :They will scan the thing and bin it, thinking "15-year-old". Or more insidiously, they will skim it, and begin to make subconscious prejudgments that the anti-throttling, pro-net-neutrality camp must be total nutters, and will be less likely to give our genuine arguments objective consideration in the future. ^ What I'm getting at, yeah. If not "nutters", then "assholes".
Totally detrimental. |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| reply to sniff sniff
said by sniff sniff :Competition Bureau and the CRTC in bed with Bell? » www.p2pnet.net/story/17677something smells here, and it isn't my sox.  It's hard to ignore all the inbreeding going on, that's for sure. How it affects things is a definite big question-mark if there ever was one! 
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TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to sniff sniff
said by sniff sniff :Competition Bureau and the CRTC in bed with Bell? » www.p2pnet.net/story/17677something smells here, and it isn't my sox. And this surprises you? Just take a look at some of the past cases and the current commissioners. You'd have to be blind not to see it. |
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sniff sniff
@videotron.ca
| reply to zaptor99
Competition Bureau and the CRTC in bed with Bell?
»www.p2pnet.net/story/17677
something smells here, and it isn't my sox. |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to patcat88
said by patcat88 :Why don't the ISPs just give users hardware encryption boxes to put after the DSL modem, and VPN all traffic as a single UDP (or TCP) stream back to their datacenter then decrypt it and de VPN it and continue it on its way? Think of the VPN as a value added service. Bell can't DPI encrypted traffic. The hardware would not be cheap. |
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drjp81
join:2006-01-09
canada | reply to patcat88
$? |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to zaptor99
Why don't the ISPs just give users hardware encryption boxes to put after the DSL modem, and VPN all traffic as a single UDP (or TCP) stream back to their datacenter then decrypt it and de VPN it and continue it on its way? Think of the VPN as a value added service. Bell can't DPI encrypted traffic. |
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levi47
join:2004-07-16
Waterloo, ON
·Acanac
| reply to zaptor99
My complaint to the CRTC:
I do not believe that the ruling made by the CRTC on the issues brought forth by the CAIP reflects the best interest of the consumer. The blanket throttling of wholesale customers was a blatant attempt by bell to remove any features from competitors that they did not desire to provide. It has been shown that the throttling is in place in many places where traffic congestion is not an issue and is not dependent on congestion in an area. If it could be shown that throttling was only engaged when\where congestion was occurring bells actions may be viewed as acceptable. At present the CRTC is eliminating the consumers choice of paying the additional cost associated with unlimited/unrestricted internet service and hindering the progress of the internet in Canada. While p2p might currently be a minority in terms of usage it should not be discriminated against as all technologies start out this way, if you cripple something before it can properly develop you destroy innovation. |
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Tack
join:2007-10-23
Waterloo, ON
| reply to fiestaware
said by fiestaware :They will scan the thing and bin it, thinking "15-year-old". Or more insidiously, they will skim it, and begin to make subconscious prejudgments that the anti-throttling, pro-net-neutrality camp must be total nutters, and will be less likely to give our genuine arguments objective consideration in the future. |
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shepd
join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to GNca George
said by GNca George :Good point, except that there aren't ANY competitors that can provide that kind of service at a reasonable price point. No Japanese transplants queueing up to run fibre to my doorstep miles out in the country... If only! True enough right now. Although I think the vast majority of people realize that living out in the country = rural lifestyle = totally different way of living. People up north want a truck with studded winter tires and a well with clean water. In downtown TO you want a TTC pass and a bottle of water from Pickering. You have to give up some things to gain other things when living rural, and those that don't understand that hate living out in the country (I should know! I was one of them!)
However, I've seen opportunities fly by so many times. Where I lived out in the country was a subdivision full of yuppies with $1/2 million houses. No DSL, no cable, and the fastest dialup you could get with 15 km long lines was 19.2 kbps. There's a great opportunity to be had there, and Bell, to this day, *still* hasn't bothered to put a DSLAM or remote out there.
Best of luck with your service!
said by GNca George :You can go out and buy a GigE link all for yourself right now. Problem is, you aren't going to like the price. Yup. Although, honestly, if I was a multi-millionaire, I'd have GigE, just for the hell of it. I believe that's what... $10k a month with Cogent?  Wouldn't be too hard to swing if you won the $45 million 6/49. |
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mr_hexen
join:2007-08-02
Brampton, ON
1 edit | reply to BonkersInc
said by BonkersInc :They oversubscribe lines, which I can understand because otherwise DSL would be expensive enough that noone would want it. But, what level of oversubscribing is tolerable from the consumer's point of view? Exactly. 5 or 10 or however many years ago, they made a business decision for subscription rates VS ACTUAL capacity. They gambled and lost (p2p changed the game), and now they are punishing us for THEIR mistakes. It's probably some dumb (or smart) CEO trying to save his ass/job.
If congestion is the problem, why FORCE congestion (congestion = slowdowns in speed = throttle). Just let it happen naturally... :/ I'm sure it would happen A LOT less than it does.
Heck, i've NEVER experienced congestion, AT ANY time of day. I can usually trace a slow speed to the source server. If I'm streaming / downloading from multiple sources I can usually add up all my speeds to get 5mbps, NO CONGESTION. |
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BonkersInc
King of Lalaland
join:2008-09-05
| reply to Jethro86
They oversubscribe lines, which I can understand because otherwise DSL would be expensive enough that noone would want it.
But, what level of oversubscribing is tolerable from the consumer's point of view?
From »Re: Canadian Net Neutrality Movement. Feb. DEADLINE :
"With all the throttling and caps that are becoming reality, I'd like to point out that even with a 1 mbit link you can trash a 60 gig cap in a week. Is Bell's network really so poor that they are oversubscribing 5 (or even 10 or 16) times their network's capacity? What level of oversubscribing is considered acceptable?" |
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Jethro86
join:2005-05-27
Winchester, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to pnjunction
said by pnjunction :And when we started actually using that 5 Mbps we got slapped with a throttle, which is his point: That Bell upgraded the last mile (first 5-7 Mbps ADSL, now ADSL2 remotes) so that they could advertise fast speeds but neglected invest in the rest of the network to carry our data. How else can you explain that we can get 5-16 Mbps sync rates, but 'need' to be limited to 30 kB/s to relieve congestion? Bravo... I believe this is the heart of the issue. Same as companies increasing download speeds while reducing monthly caps. Shameful. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | reply to DKS
My parents live in a town of 30k. They're about a kilometer from the CO by land. They've got 7mbit service, and their RCO is somewhere about 12mbit, IIRC. |
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AdrianF
join:2008-11-21
Scarborough, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to BonkersInc
said by BonkersInc :I see a lot of good issues raised in this thread and I feel compelled to add my 2 cents.  With all the throttling and caps that are becoming reality, I'd like to point out that even with a 1 mbit link you can trash a 60 gig cap in a week. Is Bell's network really so poor that they are oversubscribing 5 (or even 10 or 16) times their network's capacity? For someone like me, I am currently sitting at about 150 gigs transferred this month. Bell's website says 60 gigs + $2.5/gig, which raises my potential bill to $225 on top of my regular bill. And this is using on average only 20% of the potential speed I'm paying for. And now, assuming Citi doesn't go under, we (the customers, whether Bell's customer or not), are going to be on the hook for billions of dollars of debt one way or another that will never go into any sort of improvements... I have a pretty good idea where my $225 overage fees will be going. What are the chances that Bell will update their cap limits to allow for new bandwidth hungry applications that are sure to replace/compliment p2p in the future? Can Teksavvy and other GAS customers demand that the money they pay out to Bell is accounted for so that we can actually see our $s being put back into the network that we are paying to maintain and upgrade? If you want to laugh, I transferred over 1.4TB of data in my last month with Bell (on a grandfathered unlimited plan). If I was paying $1.25/GB for overages over 60GB, that would've been a $2000 bill after-tax.
I did it out of spite, really. Bell pissed me off. And I wanted to see what I could transfer with 6 meg service. |
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drjp81
join:2006-01-09
canada
·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to AdrianF
Not wanting to derail the topic, but, since you brought it up... somtimes bitching and moaning is the best thing you can do so people become aware of the/a situation.
If the last federal election is any indication, it is to say how much people are ineducated on the issues and rely on their own bottom line in order to evaluate the state of affairs.
So that being said I rather agree with you that speaking our is a good thing, but if Canadians are being led to the slaughter it is because they don't know. Perhaps that is their own fault, but anyways...
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Cheers! |
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AdrianF
join:2008-11-21
Scarborough, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to fiestaware
said by fiestaware :[Reactions like that are pure detriment. If you care at all about net neutrality you will never write anything like that again. Unfortunate outcomes are not best responded to with Crass lyrics. Geez. I think some reactions are better than none at all. Canadians, as a a people, are like sheep being lead to the slaughter. We like to bitch and moan all the time but rarely stand up to be counted and make a difference (the last Federal Election is a perfect case study).
That being said, I agree that the tone was a bit over the top, but I'm sure it's better to have sent something than nothing at all.
That's the simple reason I have yet to send an e-mail to the CRTC or to my MP (or anyone for that matter) other than post in these forums: it's too early. I want to let it sit for a bit and then figure out what my "next move" will be. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to pnjunction
said by pnjunction :said by DKS :Very few outside of urban cores can get those speeds, remotes included. You talking about 16 Mbps or 5? Many, if not most, DSL customers are getting 5 Mbps. Forget about 16 Mbps for now, wholesalers can only offer up to 5, and yet their customers still need to be throttled. The average speedtest for TSI customers here is currently 3378/570, not far off the ideal of about 4300/680 for 5056/800 kbps sync. My parents live 9km out of a small city of 50k and they have a great line because there is a remote somewhere nearby. I'm not saying that Bell shouldn't be investing in remotes and ADSL2, just that it's obvious that they have slacked on upgrading the backbones of the network (if their dubious claims of congestion are even true) since they can't even support 5 mbps service (which is rapidly becoming ancient by today's standards) without capping and throttling. 5 meg is the best anyone can expect outside of urban cores. Even with remotes it is dodgy. I'm inside a city but on the edge of 5056/800. It's slower down the street. Mind you, I've had major work done on my line for other reasons.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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