<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<rss version="2.0" xmlns:blogChannel="http://backend.userland.com/blogChannelModule">

<channel>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20 in TekSavvy</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21453525</link>
<description></description>
<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:37:43 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:37:43 EDT</lastBuildDate>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21479020</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : Ok so take a look<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/11/20/tech-crtcqna.html" >www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008&middot;&middot;&middot;qna.html</A><br><br><b>Excerpt<br><br>"But by looking at the issues we also recognized that there are some more fundamental issues here because Bell and all the carriers own their networks and they claim they have the right to manage their traffic how they choose. We're saying, 'Is there something we should be looking at in regards to the extent to which their rights to manage their network ... infringe on other peoples' rights?' We're saying, 'Let's have a public notice and take a look at all the issues, not just one company, but all the companies, and not just one group of customers but all customers, and see if there really is a need for us to define guidelines or not in this case.'"<br><br>"The evidence before us, as filed and defended or criticized by the parties &#133; it was a public, transparent process. All the information was provided. We took a look at the evidence and the submissions of the parties and made a finding with regard to the specific claim and allegation, but also recognized there are broader issues we do need to get involved in, and that's why we issued the public notice."<br><br>CBCNews.ca: The [Canadian Association of Internet Providers] and its members have complained that they weren't notified in October that the decision would be delayed, or that a ruling was coming on Thursday. Can you shed any light on why weren't they notified in advance of either event?<br><br>Katz: None at all. I don't know what the timelines are. Usually the commission makes a decision and it goes to the lawyers and writers to craft the decision. Then we're told when it goes out and we put together the appropriate machinery to get it out the door. I have no idea who was notified, when they were notified or who was given advance notice or not. I would think we treat everybody the same. No idea at all.</b><br><br>craft the decision ? .. wtf . anyone? definition of craft ? hah<br><br>what i got out of this from the CRTC was that " it could go one way .. or ther other.. and they obviouslyjust went with Bell on this one .. based purely on submissions.<br><br>NOW they want public input to formulate the next decision. <br><br>they only really looked at the piece of this and looked the wrong way . <br><br>Now they want publics voice... ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21479020</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:28:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478889</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/611909"><b>patcat88</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  mlerner <A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>The hardware would not be cheap.<br> </div>&raquo;<A HREF="http://quozl.linux.org.au/openwrt/powernoc-woap54g/openssl-speed.txt" >quozl.linux.org.au/openwrt/power&middot;&middot;&middot;peed.txt</A><br><br>Sounds like you can get 24 mbitps using blowfish on a wrt54g, more than enough for ADSL. A Linksys with custom firmware turning it into a VPN/hardware encryption device. Bell can't DPI the traffic then, except traffic shape the 1 unknown VPN connection through packetloss which is a natural speed limiter. VPNs are unlikely to be subject to DPI because of corporate users complaining. Also one of the congestion arguments (a bunch of TCP connections from a p2p user will squeeze the 1 TCP connection by a HTTP user, since TCP tends to balance out each connection to an equal share of the media/pipe).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478889</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:06:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478245</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1517935"><b>fiestaware</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Tack <A HREF="/useremail/u/1497135"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  fiestaware <A HREF="/useremail/u/1517935"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>They will scan the thing and bin it, thinking "15-year-old".</div>Or more insidiously, they will skim it, and begin to make subconscious prejudgments that the anti-throttling, pro-net-neutrality camp must be total nutters, and will be less likely to give our <i>genuine</i> arguments objective consideration in the future.<br> </div>^ What I'm getting at, yeah. If not "nutters", then "assholes". <br><br>Totally detrimental. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478245</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:06:52 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478180</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by sniff sniff :</small><br><br>Competition Bureau and the CRTC in bed with Bell?<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17677" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17677</A><br><br>something smells here, and it isn't my sox.  :p<br> </div>It's hard to ignore all the inbreeding going on, that's for sure.  How it affects things is a definite big question-mark if there ever was one!   :huh:<br><small>--<br>TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br><br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478180</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:54:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478131</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by sniff sniff :</small><br><br>Competition Bureau and the CRTC in bed with Bell?<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17677" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17677</A><br><br>something smells here, and it isn't my sox.  :p<br> </div>And this surprises you? Just take a look at some of the past cases and the current commissioners. You'd have to be blind not to see it.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478131</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:46:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478083</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Competition Bureau and the CRTC in bed with Bell?<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17677" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17677</A><br><br>something smells here, and it isn't my sox.  :p]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478083</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:39:48 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478050</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  patcat88 <A HREF="/useremail/u/611909"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Why don't the ISPs just give users hardware encryption boxes to put after the DSL modem, and VPN all traffic as a single UDP (or TCP) stream back to their datacenter then decrypt it and de VPN it and continue it on its way? Think of the VPN as a value added service. Bell can't DPI encrypted traffic.<br> </div>The hardware would not be cheap.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21478050</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:34:28 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21477886</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1311511"><b>drjp81</b></A> : $?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21477886</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:01:19 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21477883</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/611909"><b>patcat88</b></A> : Why don't the ISPs just give users hardware encryption boxes to put after the DSL modem, and VPN all traffic as a single UDP (or TCP) stream back to their datacenter then decrypt it and de VPN it and continue it on its way? Think of the VPN as a value added service. Bell can't DPI encrypted traffic.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21477883</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:00:05 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21477053</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1042534"><b>levi47</b></A> : My complaint to the CRTC:<br>I do not believe that the ruling made by the CRTC on the issues brought forth by the CAIP reflects the best interest of the consumer. The blanket throttling of wholesale customers was a blatant attempt by bell to remove any features from competitors that they did not desire to provide. It has been shown that the throttling is in place in many places where traffic congestion is not an issue and is not dependent on congestion in an area. If it could be shown that throttling was only engaged when\where congestion was occurring bells actions may be viewed as acceptable. At present the CRTC is eliminating the consumers choice of paying the additional cost associated with unlimited/unrestricted internet service and hindering the progress of the internet in Canada. While p2p might currently be a minority in terms of usage it should not be discriminated against as all technologies start out this way, if you cripple something before it can properly develop you destroy innovation.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21477053</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:15:55 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476994</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1497135"><b>Tack</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  fiestaware <A HREF="/useremail/u/1517935"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>They will scan the thing and bin it, thinking "15-year-old".</div>Or more insidiously, they will skim it, and begin to make subconscious prejudgments that the anti-throttling, pro-net-neutrality camp must be total nutters, and will be less likely to give our <i>genuine</i> arguments objective consideration in the future.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476994</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:05:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476789</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/933870"><b>shepd</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  GNca George <A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Good point, except that there aren't ANY competitors that can provide that kind of service at a reasonable price point. No Japanese transplants queueing up to run fibre to my doorstep miles out in the country... If only!</div>True enough right now.  Although I think the vast majority of people realize that living out in the country = rural lifestyle = totally different way of living.  People up north want a truck with studded winter tires and a well with clean water.  In downtown TO you want a TTC pass and a bottle of water from Pickering.  You have to give up some things to gain other things when living rural, and those that don't understand that hate living out in the country (I should know!  I was one of them!)<br><br>However, I've seen opportunities fly by so many times.  Where I lived out in the country was a subdivision full of yuppies with $1/2 million houses.  No DSL, no cable, and the fastest dialup you could get with 15 km long lines was 19.2 kbps.  There's a great opportunity to be had there, and Bell, to this day, *still* hasn't bothered to put a DSLAM or remote out there.<br><br>Best of luck with your service!<br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  GNca George <A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>You can go out and buy a GigE link all for yourself right now. Problem is, you aren't going to like the price.</div>Yup.  Although, honestly, if I was a multi-millionaire, I'd have GigE, just for the hell of it.  I believe that's what... $10k a month with Cogent?  :D  Wouldn't be too hard to swing if you won the $45 million 6/49.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476789</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:25:41 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476771</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><b>mr_hexen</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  BonkersInc <A HREF="/useremail/u/1579250"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>They oversubscribe lines, which I can understand because otherwise DSL would be expensive enough that noone would want it.<br><br>But, what level of oversubscribing is tolerable from the consumer's point of view?<br> </div>Exactly. 5 or 10 or however many years ago, they made a business decision for subscription rates VS ACTUAL capacity. They gambled and lost (p2p changed the game), and now they are punishing us for THEIR mistakes. It's probably some dumb (or smart) CEO trying to save his ass/job.<br><br>If congestion is the problem, why FORCE congestion (congestion = slowdowns in speed = throttle). Just let it happen naturally... :/ I'm sure it would happen A LOT less than it does.<br><br>Heck, i've NEVER experienced congestion, AT ANY time of day. I can usually trace a slow speed to the source server. If I'm streaming / downloading from multiple sources I can usually add up all my speeds to get 5mbps, NO CONGESTION.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476771</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:22:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476508</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1579250"><b>BonkersInc</b></A> : They oversubscribe lines, which I can understand because otherwise DSL would be expensive enough that noone would want it.<br><br>But, what level of oversubscribing is tolerable from the consumer's point of view?<br><br>From &raquo;<A HREF="/forum/r21473279-">Re: Canadian Net Neutrality Movement. Feb. DEADLINE</A> :<br><br>"With all the throttling and caps that are becoming reality, I'd like to point out that even with a 1 mbit link you can trash a 60 gig cap in a week. Is Bell's network really so poor that they are oversubscribing 5 (or even 10 or 16) times their network's capacity? What level of oversubscribing is considered acceptable?"]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476508</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:29:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476348</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1210050"><b>Jethro86</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  pnjunction <A HREF="/useremail/u/1523173"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>And when we started actually using that 5 Mbps we got slapped with a throttle, which is his point:  That Bell upgraded the last mile (first 5-7 Mbps ADSL, now ADSL2 remotes) so that they could advertise fast speeds but neglected invest in the rest of the network to carry our data.<br><br>How else can you explain that we can get 5-16 Mbps sync rates, but 'need' to be limited to 30 kB/s to relieve congestion?<br> </div>Bravo... I believe this is the heart of the issue. Same as companies increasing download speeds while reducing monthly caps. Shameful.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21476348</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:54:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21474617</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : My parents live in a town of 30k. They're about a kilometer from the CO by land. They've got 7mbit service, and their RCO is somewhere about 12mbit, IIRC.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21474617</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:51:26 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21472615</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1598011"><b>AdrianF</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  BonkersInc <A HREF="/useremail/u/1579250"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I see a lot of good issues raised in this thread and I feel compelled to add my 2 cents. :)<br><br>With all the throttling and caps that are becoming reality, I'd like to point out that even with a 1 mbit link you can trash a 60 gig cap in a week.<br><br>Is Bell's network really so poor that they are oversubscribing 5 (or even 10 or 16) times their network's capacity?<br><br>For someone like me, I am currently sitting at about 150 gigs transferred this month. Bell's website says 60 gigs + $2.5/gig, which raises my potential bill to $225 on top of my regular bill. And this is using on average only 20% of the potential speed I'm paying for.<br><br>And now, assuming Citi doesn't go under, we (the customers, whether Bell's customer or not), are going to be on the hook for billions of dollars of debt one way or another that will never go into any sort of improvements... I have a pretty good idea where my $225 overage fees will be going.<br><br>What are the chances that Bell will update their cap limits to allow for new bandwidth hungry applications that are sure to replace/compliment p2p in the future?<br><br>Can Teksavvy and other GAS customers demand that the money they pay out to Bell is accounted for so that we can actually see our $s being put back into the network that we are paying to maintain and upgrade?<br> </div>If you want to laugh, I transferred over 1.4TB of data in my last month with Bell (on a grandfathered unlimited plan).  If I was paying $1.25/GB for overages over 60GB, that would've been a $2000 bill after-tax.  :)<br><br>I did it out of spite, really.  Bell pissed me off.  And I wanted to see what I could transfer with 6 meg service. :D]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21472615</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:06:43 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21472596</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1311511"><b>drjp81</b></A> : Not wanting to derail the topic, but, since you brought it up... somtimes bitching and moaning is the best thing you can do so people become aware of the/a situation.<br><br>If the last federal election is any indication, it is to say how much people are ineducated on the issues and rely on their own bottom line in order to evaluate the state of affairs.<br><br>So that being said I rather agree with you that speaking our is a good thing, but if Canadians are being led to the slaughter it is because they don't know. Perhaps that is their own fault, but anyways...<br><small>--<br>Cheers!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21472596</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:02:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21472528</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1598011"><b>AdrianF</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  fiestaware <A HREF="/useremail/u/1517935"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>[Reactions like that are pure detriment. If you care <i>at all</i> about net neutrality you will never write anything like that again. <br><br>Unfortunate outcomes are not best responded to with <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crass'">Crass</a> lyrics. Geez. <br> </div>I think some reactions are better than none at all.  Canadians, as a a people, are like sheep being lead to the slaughter.  We like to bitch and moan all the time but rarely stand up to be counted and make a difference (the last Federal Election is a perfect case study).  <br><br>That being said, I agree that the tone was a bit over the top, but I'm sure it's better to have sent something than nothing at all.<br><br>That's the simple reason I have yet to send an e-mail to the CRTC or to my MP (or anyone for that matter) other than post in these forums: it's too early.  I want to let it sit for a bit and then figure out what my "next move" will be.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21472528</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 12:45:39 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21471587</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  pnjunction <A HREF="/useremail/u/1523173"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>Very few outside of urban cores can get those speeds, remotes included. <br> </div>You talking about 16 Mbps or 5?  Many, if not most, DSL customers are getting 5 Mbps.  Forget about 16 Mbps for now, wholesalers can only offer up to 5, and yet their customers still need to be throttled.<br><br>The average speedtest for TSI customers here is currently 3378/570, not far off the ideal of about 4300/680 for 5056/800 kbps sync.  My parents live 9km out of a small city of 50k and they have a great line because there is a remote somewhere nearby.<br><br>I'm not saying that Bell shouldn't be investing in remotes and ADSL2, just that it's obvious that they have slacked on upgrading the backbones of the network (if their dubious claims of congestion are even true) since they can't even support 5 mbps service (which is rapidly becoming ancient by today's standards) without capping and throttling.<br> </div>5 meg is the best anyone can expect outside of urban cores. Even with remotes it is dodgy. I'm inside a city but on the edge of 5056/800. It's slower down the street. Mind you, I've had major work done on my line for other reasons. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21471587</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 08:01:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21471476</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1517935"><b>fiestaware</b></A> : You make a mistake: I'm not Canadian. I just know better than to think CAPSLOCK and exclamation points will actually be convincing arguments <i>unto themselves</i>. Your email will not be read and make the bureaucrats think "Aw, look at this genuine human reaction!". They will scan the thing and bin it, thinking "15-year-old". At the CBC a disinterested intern may do even less than that. <br><br>You make another mistake: Not all reactions are valid. At least not to the CRTC - and, unfortunately, they're the people who's opinions count right now. Why tinge the fluent, well reasoned output of net neutrality's most thoughtful defenders with foot stomping and revolutionary clich&eacute;s? Specialists in contract law and market economists will not be taking editorial cues from you either, I think - though that doesn't make their responses any less 'human'. <br><br>Not all opinions are equal; this is not Sesame Street. You can be 'pissed off' and not come off as if your car was just rear-ended on the way to an appointment/on a hot summer's day.<br><br>Now, if your email had taken the tone of your second post here, there'd be less to worry about. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21471476</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:12:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21470928</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : I indeed care very much about net neutrality... and I have joined many groups, signed many petitions, and written my MP... So much so, that like many Canadians, I'm frustrated as hell!<br><br>Human reaction is not "pure detriment"<br><br>There will be many many reactions to what the CRTC has done. Some will be well written, some not... some will offer examples, use graphs etc. some will be nothing but a mad, angry rant like mine was...<br><br>The fact is, they are all are valid, and all of them will, and should be heard.<br><br>If you think that thoughts and reactions like mine are out of line, then perhaps that is part of the underlying problem here...<br><br>We Canadians (as a rule) have been friendly, and nice and peaceful and patient and so on till we are red in the face...<br><br>It's time for change.<br><br>it's time that someone knows that we Canadians are just plain pissed off!<br><br>I don't think that's out of line at all...<br>I think it's just telling the truth.<br><br>cheers,<br>snuggs]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21470928</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:43:33 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21470508</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1517935"><b>fiestaware</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by snuggles :</small><br><br>just sent to the CRTC and CBC:<br>=====================================<br>quote: We're not endorsing internet throttling: CRTC<br>Bull!<br><br>take a God Damned stand for once... YOU WORK FOR US THE CANADIAN PEOPLE!!!<br>DO NOT MESS WITH US!<br><br>etc. etc. etc.<br><br> </div>^ Reactions like that are pure detriment. If you care <i>at all</i> about net neutrality you will never write anything like that again. <br><br>Unfortunate outcomes are not best responded to with <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crass'">Crass</a> lyrics. Geez. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21470508</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:39:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21468764</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1510753"><b>grayfox</b></A> : Most of bells congestion was at the dslam level (links from the dslam to the rest of the network) However I assumed this was out of date bs data since bell has deployed a ton of remotes since august (at least where I am) and this could be easily solved by switching more customers to remotes.<br><br>Also if they are deploying this many remotes that have gig-e im assuming area's with remotes and adsl2 service are on ethernet segments of bells network and since there wasnt even a mention of ethernet segments in bells submissions to the crtc (only atm) <br><br>I think Bell has likely keep critical data from the crtc that was required for the CRTC to make an informed decision. However the only people who would know this for sure are key people at bell.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21468764</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:47:26 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21468722</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1523173"><b>pnjunction</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>Very few outside of urban cores can get those speeds, remotes included. <br> </div>You talking about 16 Mbps or 5?  Many, if not most, DSL customers are getting 5 Mbps.  Forget about 16 Mbps for now, wholesalers can only offer up to 5, and yet their customers still need to be throttled.<br><br>The average speedtest for TSI customers here is currently 3378/570, not far off the ideal of about 4300/680 for 5056/800 kbps sync.  My parents live 9km out of a small city of 50k and they have a great line because there is a remote somewhere nearby.<br><br>I'm not saying that Bell shouldn't be investing in remotes and ADSL2, just that it's obvious that they have slacked on upgrading the backbones of the network (if their dubious claims of congestion are even true) since they can't even support 5 mbps service (which is rapidly becoming ancient by today's standards) without capping and throttling.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21468722</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:33:08 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21468599</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : just sent to the CRTC and CBC:<br>=====================================<br>quote: We're not endorsing internet throttling: CRTC<br>Bull!<br><br>take a God Damned stand for once... YOU WORK FOR US THE CANADIAN PEOPLE!!!<br>DO NOT MESS WITH US!<br><br>For Christs sake, we (the Canadian internet users, ie: we the people) are more informed, intelligent, aware and up to date on what is going on with the internet... WORLDWIDE!<br>OBVIOUSLY the CRTC is not!<br><br>Canada was... WAS!!! ONE OF THE world LEADERS IN DOMESTIC internet... That was over 5 years ago... NOW??? Canada has dropped below MANY third world countries in quality of internet speed / price and quality...<br>YOU, THE CRTC... YOU with NO back bone! are 99.9% to blame for this!<br>WHY??? because you sit back and DO NOTHING! YOU ALLOW BELL CANADA TO RUN MAKE YOUR DECISIONS FOR YOU!!!<br><br>Us Canadians will NOT stand by and watch you UNDERMINE the internet... Undermine OUR internet! Undermine DEMOCRACY!<br><br>Consider this the first in a series of LEGAL yet INCREASINGLY AGGRESSIVE messages you will receive on this subject...<br><br>REMEMBER MR CRTC... YOU WORK FOR US, CANADA!!!<br>WE PAY YOUR SALARY!!!<br><br>GET THAT BELL PHALLUS OUT OF YOUR CORPORATE BACKSIDE!<br><br>IF YOU KEEP IT UP, WE, CANADA WILL FIRE YOU!<br><br>signed,<br>one VERY upset and concerned Canadian!<br>signed<br>a citizen who really gives a sh*t about Canada, Freedom, and fighting against a Monopoly THAT (for many many years) WE THE PEOPLE PAID FOR!<br><br>Liberate the internet in Canada NOW!!!<br><br>===========================<br>k... I was a bit pissed and should have proof read it a bit more, but I'm not kidding...<br>I'm really pissed now, and will do all I can to stop the tyranny!<br><br>viva la revolution!!!<br>long live freedom and the internet!!!<br><br>xox,<br>snuggs]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21468599</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:54:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21468388</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1579250"><b>BonkersInc</b></A> : I see a lot of good issues raised in this thread and I feel compelled to add my 2 cents. :)<br><br>With all the throttling and caps that are becoming reality, I'd like to point out that even with a 1 mbit link you can trash a 60 gig cap in a week.<br><br>Is Bell's network really so poor that they are oversubscribing 5 (or even 10 or 16) times their network's capacity?<br><br>For someone like me, I am currently sitting at about 150 gigs transferred this month. Bell's website says 60 gigs + $2.5/gig, which raises my potential bill to $225 on top of my regular bill. And this is using on average only 20% of the potential speed I'm paying for.<br><br>And now, assuming Citi doesn't go under, we (the customers, whether Bell's customer or not), are going to be on the hook for billions of dollars of debt one way or another that will never go into any sort of improvements... I have a pretty good idea where my $225 overage fees will be going.<br><br>What are the chances that Bell will update their cap limits to allow for new bandwidth hungry applications that are sure to replace/compliment p2p in the future?<br><br>Can Teksavvy and other GAS customers demand that the money they pay out to Bell is accounted for so that we can actually see our $s being put back into the network that we are paying to maintain and upgrade?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21468388</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:55:45 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467737</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  pnjunction <A HREF="/useremail/u/1523173"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  andyb <A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>upgrade from 1 meg was history long ago in 99% of places and has nothing to do with the 500 mill.The 500 mill is to put in remotes so that wholsalers like teksavvy cant get the customers.They paid out billions to shareholders over the last few years and sunk near 0 into backbone.<br> </div>You need a refresher in history. Having been around here since 2000, I can trace my speeds from 1.5 meg to 5 meg over that time. It started in 200 and reached 5 meg in 2005. That's not "long ago".  </div>And when we started actually using that 5 Mbps we got slapped with a throttle, which is his point:  That Bell upgraded the last mile (first 5-7 Mbps ADSL, now ADSL2 remotes) so that they could advertise fast speeds but neglected invest in the rest of the network to carry our data.<br><br>How else can you explain that we can get 5-16 Mbps sync rates, but 'need' to be limited to 30 kB/s to relieve congestion?<br> </div>Very few outside of urban cores can get those speeds, remotes included. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467737</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:19:02 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467734</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by Anon_Cow :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  andyb <A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>5 years is a long time </div>Perhaps not in DKS years. As he keeps reminding us, he's a grumpy, yet wise, old man (I'm sure at least 3 of the 4 are correct) who was apparently the New World's designated greeter to the Leif Ericson landing party ;-)<br> </div>And even Leif was a young pup!  ;)<br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467734</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:17:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467732</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  andyb <A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>5 years is a long time in technology and I don't need a refresher as this is near 2009 and I was with bell before DSL as you were and just recently left for a company that cares.I think you need to stop suckin up for bell.<br> </div>I've been with Bell since December, 1994. In terms of a life it's a short time. A very short time. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467732</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:16:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467728</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Abattoir <A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Third, break up Bell.  They are in obvious conflict positions, and are abusing their control over the network to  benefit their other business units.<br> </div>Bell WAS broken up. Entourage, TeleGlobe, Northern Telecom and Bell Aliant WERE all parts of Bell. Now they are individual parts. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467728</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:14:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467710</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><b>Abattoir</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  GNca George <A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>So that brings us back to how do you make Bell play nice, while allowing them to achieve a reasonable return on their investment in a world with dramatically different traffic patterns to those existing even a couple of years ago? Ouch.<br></div>First, whatever kind of network management is 'needed', it must be approved/regulated by the CRTC.  No more 'what we say goes' from Bell, essentially dictating to the smaller ISPs what their business model and competitive advantages are permitted to be.<br><br>Second, burn every DPI-capable box at Bell.  They have no valid place there.  I certainly hope the Office of the Privacy Commissioner holds Bell at least somewhat accountable - they are still performing their own investigation, and they are probably one of the most consumer-friendly organization in the federal government.<br><br>Third, break up Bell.  They are in obvious conflict positions, and are abusing their control over the network to  benefit their other business units.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467710</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:05:19 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467655</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><b>GNca George</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shepd <A HREF="/useremail/u/933870"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>The excuses (whether valid or not) I see here suggesting that ISPs in general can't support P2P, and that customers don't mind, remind me of the excuses from American car makers that their customers don't want "fuel efficiency" or "stylish" or  "reliable" cars, that really, customers just want "muscle" and "big".  Except, of course, the opposite.  This time, customers want "muscle" and "big" out of their internet.<br><br>If customers are saying they want to do P2P, and that's the majority of traffic you're all seeing, you're being told what you need to figure out:  Either figure out how you can support P2P or, well, companies like Bell that don't care will join AMC.  Someday.<br> </div>Good point, except that there aren't ANY competitors that can provide that kind of service at a reasonable price point. No Japanese transplants queueing up to run fibre to my doorstep miles out in the country... If only!<br><br>You can go out and buy a GigE link all for yourself right now. Problem is, you aren't going to like the price.<br><br>Broadband price points were established years ago, before PtP became popular and traffic levels soared. There is absolutely no doubt that hauling bandwidth around is a lot cheaper every year, particularly if all you have to do is light up your fibre at a higher speed, but traffic is a heck of a lot higher too.<br><br>Its going to be interesting to see how this plays out.<br><br>George<br><small>--<br>Powered by Candlelight Wireless Broadband and Teksavvy MultiLink DSL!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467655</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:24:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467647</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><b>GNca George</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  R0CKY <A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>This isn't the case with DSL... If you are taking a single point and distributing it directly to all clients, from this same point, then yes, what you say in here is a concern.  This isn't our issue here.  We don't get impacted the same way at all.<br></div>Sure, but you don't own the infrastructure end-to-end, so you don't have to deal with the issues of saturation in Upper Welly Boot, Ontario. Backhaul capacity is a problem for pretty much everyone once you get outside the metro cores. There is always a choke point somewhere. For example, there isn't enough backhaul bandwidth available at reasonable prices in a lot of Central Ontario. Sure, Toronto to Orillia is pretty good, but then you hit a relative desert until you get to North Bay.<br><br>And DSL is relevant where Bell has DSL infrastructure in place. There are LOTS of places still without DSL today because even Bell can't make the business case to install it. Which unfortunately means zero chance of making a case to install a parallel wired/fibre network in most of the country outside the downtown cores. Its very expensive erecting tens of thousands of kilometres of fibre up on the Shield.<br><br>In those areas you might have Bell/Rogers/Innukshuk pseudo-WiMax, probably do have Bell/Rogers/Telus 3G, or joy of joys, satellite as a last resort. If you're really lucky you might have a local wireless provider or two. But that brings you back to backhaul and the costs associated... The real cost of providing continuous-use 5 Mbit service in an outlying area is staggering, and $40 bucks a month or so comes no where near to covering it.<br><br>There has been a lot of chatter about building a wireless network to replace Bell. You could do that if you don't need a lot of bandwidth and pretty much ban PtP, but it won't work otherwise with any of the technologies available today or on the horizon.<br><br>So that brings us back to how do you make Bell play nice, while allowing them to achieve a reasonable return on their investment in a world with dramatically different traffic patterns to those existing even a couple of years ago? Ouch.<br><br>George <br><small>--<br>Powered by Candlelight Wireless Broadband and Teksavvy MultiLink DSL!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467647</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:15:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467326</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1311511"><b>drjp81</b></A> : Strange,<br><br>It just occurred to me that the CRTC <b>has</b> completely sold out. I mean a lot of speculation has been going around and nothing really convinced me, until a thought just came up:<br><br>Bell Canada is a business and businesses' main goal and focus is profitability, not to say to make as much money as possible. We are not talking about a philanthropic organization here, especially not Bell.<br><br>Therefore every single move and decision made by a business is to affect the so called bottom line... and as much as possible. Even mores in public holding companies like Bell.<br><br>Now since it is a not a fact, or it is to say, debatable, that the throttle was ever about congestion (and since an agreement on this has never been ascertained any group of experts (other than by Bell nitwits and former Bell nitwits) the only possible other way that throttling the last mile on DSL connections makes any sense "on the bottom line" for Bell it *IS* as an way to maintain it's competitiveness. <br><br>Simply put, why in the world would anyone stay with Bell a Internet supplier if the were the only one throttled?<br><br>I mean, how else does Bell's profit margin stand to gain by throttling? More happy customers? Normally I'd be trying hard not to laugh, however, the pathetic way the CRTC operates leaves me with little humour.<br><br>So I am now thoroughly convinced that the CRTC is bunch of scumbags.<br><br>It is, sadly, a turning point in my view of our country as well. I always prided myself that we, me ans my country, were a fair people. We put people before money. Our regulators and semi-socialist nature was supposed to be about the checks ans balances between powerful money and important people.<br><br>This notion has seemed to dwindle into a mere long past dream.<br><br>To ROCKY I say, thank you man. If there is still a spark of hope in my soul it is because I see how you run your business with us, the folk, in mind. You may yet be the model for a new generation of businesses built on fair value instead of ... well the alternative...<br><br>JP<br><small>--<br>Cheers!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467326</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:55:28 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467220</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : On DSL, the choke point is north of the last mile infrastructure. on cable it's the actual amount of subcsribers per node. In Bell's case, the choke point is further upstream:<br>DSLAM's with large numbers of customers using OC-3 to 2XGig-e uplinks, with up to (14X5X144) 10080 customers. Even with 2GE's, that's about 0.2Mbps per client. Most units aren't that subscribed, but it's still pretty dire. <br>And pretty much anything from aggregation to transport can be pretty tight these days.<br><br>The myth some people seem to have is that given the right sync, they have 5Mbps all time time from them to the handoff to the internet or the wholesale ISP. They don't. I would expect that globally, ratios of oversubscription at any one point (and the worst pinch point defines the whole experience) could be from 24:1 up to 64:1 or even 100:1.<br><br>This document &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.undertakingsbulletin.com/content/download/21/93/file/bt_networkaccess_datastream_ipstream_vp.pdf" >www.undertakingsbulletin.com/con&middot;&middot;&middot;m_vp.pdf</A> has some great illustration of how the GAS product physically connects, with GAS being like IPstream, except ATM and Ethernet are used by Bell interchangeably on the access network. Datastream, the product my earlier post alludes to is where the end ISP controls contention by choosing a dedicated amount of backhault from each CO to it's own PoP. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467220</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:03:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Different TacK?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467217</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : I know precious little about the networking side of things, so could Rocky and/or the network gurus out there please answer the following:<br><br>Given that it is no more Bell's business what comprises the content of the data that Teksavvy customers interchange with Teksavvy over leased connections than it is the post office's business what people write in letters sent through the mail (and in fact an invasion of privacy to attempt to ascertain such), is it not possible to encrypt all traffic between the customer and Teksavvy?  And could this not be done at the router or modem hardware level, so that Teksavvy would not to have to concern itself with multiple OS support and the like?<br><br>Teksavvy could even advertise that it is guarding the end-user's privacy from Bell's prying eyes, which would be a big selling feature given the rumoured capabilities of Satan's boxes.<br><br>Yes, there would be some up-front engineering costs involved and some communications overhead incurred (surely no more than 5%), but I cannot imagine that they would be inordinate and I'm sure the flood of new customers that such a service would bring would more than make up for it.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467217</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:03:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467154</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Bell does backhaul traffic from the customer's CO to you, TSI, at 151 front. The AGAS link cost pays for that link only, and doesn't vary based on how far the end-user is from that point. It costs more in ressources to haul a TSI client from Quebec City PQ to Toronto than it does a metro Toronto customer. Likewise, in an area where the protected fiber that feeds the entire set of villages is either a dedicated OC-12 or several shared OC-48's, there is a very finite amount of bandwidth to haul back to a larger POP runing on the IP/MPLS national cloud of multiple 10Gig-E's over nortel DWDM. Basically, customers use Bell's infrastructure (shared accross all Bell's services and clients, residential and business, retail and wholesale) all the up until Bell's AGAS point where it then runs on dedicated links to TSI's equipment at 151 Front. <br><br>In the UK, ISP's who want to avoid BT's high oversubscription ratios haul their traffic from the CO onwards over their own infrastructure, and therefore have almost total control of the network experience. <br>In the GAS service, everything is shared accross all services from all providers until handoff either to Bell's border routers or the wholesale ISP. There is no dedicated 7gig's worth of capacity to any one point in the bell network or any 1 subcsriber after the AGAS links terminate on the Bell side. And the price paid today by wholesale users doesn't reflect the load ("usage") of the Bell facilities up until the handoff. There is a real difference in carrying a constant or sustained few Mbps of P2P traffic versus the bursty nature of surfing and http downloads of yesteryear on which the broadband over subscription model is based. I do not know what the best or fairest way to cost this usage is, but I hope it is reasonable for all parties.<br><br>Bell's need to throttle is based on lack of capacity at some point prior to a major IP pop where there is less exhaustion and more links to spread the load over, although Montreal-Toronto-NYC I hear will be the first major links to be rushed onto 40G to alleviate capacity issues. <br><br>My hope is that once usage based billing is in place, which it will be someday (I'm a realist), the throttle will be application neutral and based on real-time congestion information, either by law, the CRTC or Bell's own doing (you can dream).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467154</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:35:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467144</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/933870"><b>shepd</b></A> : The excuses (whether valid or not) I see here suggesting that ISPs in general can't support P2P, and that customers don't mind, remind me of the excuses from American car makers that their customers don't want "fuel efficiency" or "stylish" or  "reliable" cars, that really, customers just want "muscle" and "big".  Except, of course, the opposite.  This time, customers want "muscle" and "big" out of their internet.<br><br>If customers are saying they want to do P2P, and that's the majority of traffic you're all seeing, you're being told what you need to figure out:  Either figure out how you can support P2P or, well, companies like Bell that don't care will join AMC.  Someday.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21467144</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:33:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466931</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1523173"><b>pnjunction</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  andyb <A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>upgrade from 1 meg was history long ago in 99% of places and has nothing to do with the 500 mill.The 500 mill is to put in remotes so that wholsalers like teksavvy cant get the customers.They paid out billions to shareholders over the last few years and sunk near 0 into backbone.<br> </div>You need a refresher in history. Having been around here since 2000, I can trace my speeds from 1.5 meg to 5 meg over that time. It started in 200 and reached 5 meg in 2005. That's not "long ago".  </div>And when we started actually using that 5 Mbps we got slapped with a throttle, which is his point:  That Bell upgraded the last mile (first 5-7 Mbps ADSL, now ADSL2 remotes) so that they could advertise fast speeds but neglected invest in the rest of the network to carry our data.<br><br>How else can you explain that we can get 5-16 Mbps sync rates, but 'need' to be limited to 30 kB/s to relieve congestion?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466931</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:31:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466829</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  andyb <A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>5 years is a long time </div>Perhaps not in DKS years. As he keeps reminding us, he's a grumpy, yet wise, old man (I'm sure at least 3 of the 4 are correct) who was apparently the New World's designated greeter to the Leif Ericson landing party ;-)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466829</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:06:56 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466601</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><b>andyb</b></A> : 5 years is a long time in technology and I don't need a refresher as this is near 2009 and I was with bell before DSL as you were and just recently left for a company that cares.I think you need to stop suckin up for bell.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466601</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:10:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466408</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  GNca George <A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Sure. I remember all kinds of stuff coming out of Bell and others that I mostly don't agree with.<br><br>I really don't know where the streaming argument is coming from, perhaps aside from Bell attempting to feather their own nests.<br><br>We aren't seeing the same trends at all. Not even slightly close. I do have sympathy with the PtP position, but Bell doesn't seem to be defending that much now. I shut down one customer this aftenoon for rabid PtP running wild, they were pulling a steady 8Mb download which slows everyone else down a bunch.<br><br>One of the big problems with providing really fast links is the issue with really fast PtP deriving from the link speed. All networks are shared, its just a question of where that sharing happens.<br><br>It can crater a big chunk of our network 'right now' as a result of one customer going nuts. We can't handle a really big continuous load. Sorry, the technology won't support dedicated bandwith to all customers at the same time, not now, not in the forseeable future. So much for the wireless/WiMax dream.<br><br>So you get cautious as a result as you don't want the flurry of support calls when one customer starts a big torrent, so you put processes in place to control the torrents...<br><br>Not a good scenario.<br><br>George<br> </div>This isn't the case with DSL... If you are taking a single point and distributing it directly to all clients, from this same point, then yes, what you say in here is a concern.  This isn't our issue here.  We don't get impacted the same way at all.<br><small>--<br>TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br><br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466408</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:37:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466362</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  andyb <A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by me13  :</small><br><br>Not true Bell has been upgrading, from 1 meg modems to ATM networks, to GiGe networks, with more remotes. This year Bell will spend over $500 million dollars on capital expense, not including $700 million for wilrless spectrum.<br> </div>upgrade from 1 meg was history long ago in 99% of places and has nothing to do with the 500 mill.The 500 mill is to put in remotes so that wholsalers like teksavvy cant get the customers.They paid out billions to shareholders over the last few years and sunk near 0 into backbone.<br> </div>You need a refresher in history. Having been around here since 2000, I can trace my speeds from 1.5 meg to 5 meg over that time. It started in 200 and reached 5 meg in 2005. That's not "long ago". <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466362</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:26:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466191</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1579250"><b>BonkersInc</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Scoop <A HREF="/useremail/u/1380445"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Bell gets $20 a month for each Teksavvy customer.<br> </div>Something like that, yes. <br><br>Now factor in everything else Bell needs to be paid for for one month, divide it by a month's total revenue, and multiply by 100. Then, for the sake of not giving out all the company's important numbers, round it off somehow.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466191</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:57:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466123</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><b>GNca George</b></A> : A point that may be worth mentioning...<br><br>Once you get outside the major metro areas, the Internet becomes more like a giant primordial fern, frail and graceful in its majesty and reach, rather than a majestic oak founded on a tremendous trunk and spreading root system.<br><br>The branches up here get thinner and thinner, and less tolerant of rough treatment.<br><br>In downtown TO, there is a lot of redundancy and resiliance and a few people bucking the trend is neither here nor there.<br><br>Up here in the bush, a couple of people running wild can bring down the whole tree. You would have to see it to believe it.<br><br>Ever watch Axmen? <br><br>George<br><small>--<br>Powered by Candlelight Wireless Broadband and Teksavvy MultiLink DSL!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466123</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:48:04 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466035</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><b>GNca George</b></A> : Sure. I remember all kinds of stuff coming out of Bell and others that I mostly don't agree with.<br><br>I really don't know where the streaming argument is coming from, perhaps aside from Bell attempting to feather their own nests.<br><br>We aren't seeing the same trends at all. Not even slightly close. I do have sympathy with the PtP position, but Bell doesn't seem to be defending that much now. I shut down one customer this aftenoon for rabid PtP running wild, they were pulling a steady 8Mb download which slows everyone else down a bunch.<br><br>One of the big problems with providing really fast links is the issue with really fast PtP deriving from the link speed. All networks are shared, its just a question of where that sharing happens.<br><br>It can crater a big chunk of our network 'right now' as a result of one customer going nuts. We can't handle a really big continuous load. Sorry, the technology won't support dedicated bandwith to all customers at the same time, not now, not in the forseeable future. So much for the wireless/WiMax dream.<br><br>So you get cautious as a result as you don't want the flurry of support calls when one customer starts a big torrent, so you put processes in place to control the torrents...<br><br>Not a good scenario.<br><br>George<br><small>--<br>Powered by Candlelight Wireless Broadband and Teksavvy MultiLink DSL!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21466035</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:31:45 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465966</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  GNca George <A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Yes, PtP is the biggest culprit. By far. Streaming barely figures on our radar compared to PtP.<br><br>Next??<br><br>George<br> </div>Remember this graph? <br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/speak/slideshow/20788466?c=1327843&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyMDc4ODQ2Ni1CZWxscy1JbnRlcm5ldC1Hcm93dGgtRmlndXJlLQ%3D%3D">/speak/slidesh&middot;&middot;&middot;LQ%3D%3D</A><br><br>According to Bell's own stats, current and future growth streaming is almost on par with P2P and they project almost equal growth between now and 2012. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465966</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:18:15 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465872</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><b>GNca George</b></A> : Hard to argue that. <br><br>I have a major customer in Huntsville who can't get service via Teksavvy. Guess what, they can get service from Bell, if you can call it service.<br><br>I guess if you're Bell, the remotes are a beautiful thing. If not direct from Bell, that's another story...<br><br>George<br><small>--<br>Powered by Candlelight Wireless Broadband and Teksavvy MultiLink DSL!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465872</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:02:49 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465856</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><b>GNca George</b></A> : Stop drinking the Bell koolaid. Hmmm. We built out the first backbone sections of our network six years ago before most of the people on this forum barely became aware of the issues surrounding broadband, particularly in rural areas. What were you doing then?<br><br>I get the undiluted pleasure of watching exactly what is happening on our network, minute by minute, hour by hour, month by month. For SIX years. And unlike the vast majority of the pundits here, I watched the changes happen. And then accelerate, very quickly in the first half of 2007 leading to where we are now.<br><br>Yes, PtP is the biggest culprit. By far. Streaming barely figures on our radar compared to PtP.<br><br>Next??<br><br>George<br><small>--<br>Powered by Candlelight Wireless Broadband and Teksavvy MultiLink DSL!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465856</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:59:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465811</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><b>andyb</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by me13 :</small><br><br>Not true Bell has been upgrading, from 1 meg modems to ATM networks, to GiGe networks, with more remotes. This year Bell will spend over $500 million dollars on capital expense, not including $700 million for wilrless spectrum.<br> </div>upgrade from 1 meg was history long ago in 99% of places and has nothing to do with the 500 mill.The 500 mill is to put in remotes so that wholsalers like teksavvy cant get the customers.They paid out billions to shareholders over the last few years and sunk near 0 into backbone.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465811</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:50:45 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465810</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  GNca George <A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>If you are paying for a 'best effort', 'up to' deal, then you are likely to get what you paid for particularly as traffic patterns have changed and your provider probably doesn't have the spare capacity they had a year ago... You are sharing that bandwidth with x number of others, on the basis that you all don't hit the 'enter' key at the same time. Guess what? PtP changed the rules, you all want to use the same bandwith at the same time, all the time. OOOPS!!<br><br>I figure it cost us about $15,000 per dedicated, exclusive-use megabit out to the far edges of out network. How many of all y'all want to step up to that kind of bill??<br><br>Thought so.<br><br>George<br> </div>There's quite a big difference between internet transit and Bell's network transit. For one, it does not cost as much to maintain or upgrade the network and certainly not $15,000 per megabit. Secondly, P2P does not change anything, this is not a cable network! If anything youtube uses just as much so why does Bell blame it on P2P and not youtube? The upload saturation BS also does not apply as much. Remember this is internal bandwidth mostly on owned lines. Stop drinking the Bell kool aid, it's bad for your health.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465810</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:50:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465603</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><b>GNca George</b></A> : Would that be 600GB per second, or 600GB per month?<br><br>That's the real question that most people are skating around.<br><br>If you really are paying for a dedicated pipe, then that is your pipe to do with as you please. God bless you, pay here please. You have just become my favorite customer!!<br><br>If you are paying for a set amount of transit, then we are talking about a whole different deal.<br><br>If you are paying for a 'best effort', 'up to' deal, then you are likely to get what you paid for particularly as traffic patterns have changed and your provider probably doesn't have the spare capacity they had a year ago... You are sharing that bandwidth with x number of others, on the basis that you all don't hit the 'enter' key at the same time. Guess what? PtP changed the rules, you all want to use the same bandwith at the same time, all the time. OOOPS!!<br><br>I figure it cost us about $15,000 per dedicated, exclusive-use megabit out to the far edges of out network. How many of all y'all want to step up to that kind of bill??<br><br>Thought so.<br><br>George<br><small>--<br>Powered by Candlelight Wireless Broadband and Teksavvy MultiLink DSL!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465603</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:15:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465540</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1565383"><b>GNca George</b></A> : Interesting. We have an iron in both fires, as we own end-to-end infrastructure and also wholesale from various people.<br><br>I have some sympathy with Bell on the AGAS loading issue. Usage has gone through the roof over the last couple of years due to changes in customer use patterns. We throttle when required on our own backbone, but its purely in response to PtP loading. I guess we throttle five customers in any given week, then phone them and warn them why they are being reined in.<br><br>In return, you get a very, very fast connection if the technology you are on allows it. Personally, we are 146 miles from our nearest fibre connection and I get over 15Mb down by 4Mb up in a routine bandwidth test.<br><br>It costs a huge amount of money to build out your own infrastructure, but some days it worth it. Other days, you wish you had stayed in bed...<br><br>George<br><small>--<br>Powered by Candlelight Wireless Broadband and Teksavvy MultiLink DSL!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21465540</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:02:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21464589</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1293592"><b>cbp</b></A> : Overselling.<br><br>This is how it looks to me when I look at wholesalers and Bell.<br><br>It's like those web hosting sites that sell the same bandwidth to many users. <br>i.e. You get 2TB of bandwidth per month for only 10$. However, as soon as you go over 2GB per day they close your account.<br><br>In Teksavvy's case, it's more like they rent a dedicated server with 600GB bandwidth, and that dedicated bandwidth gets sold to others as well.<br>And Bell's solution is to slow you down so much that you'll never be able to use that bandwidth to full extent.<br><br>Next step is to lower the bandwidth and throttle as well, all this while charging more for less<b>er</b> services.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21464589</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:04:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21464121</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/739743"><b>MisawaGQ</b></A> : There is no congestion issue. Maybe they started throttling so that they could offer higher speeds, crippled as the connection might be, in order to fool the ignorant public into thinking they're getting something better. But it certainly wasn't done because their network was currently congested.<br><small>--<br>"Let them hate, so long as they fear" -- Lucius Accius</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21464121</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:56:25 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21464018</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1579250"><b>BonkersInc</b></A> : Because it's easy to oversell $80 16 mbit plans and $1700 links knowing that many people won't use anywhere near it's potential.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21464018</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:41:52 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463994</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by me13 :</small><br><br>Oblivously some of it went to cure congestion, they purchased DPI boxes....<br> </div>Then I wouldn't call that upgrading and we're back to my original argument. Why did Bell sell more links to TSi and start rolling out ADSL2+ if they couldn't handle the bandwidth? That's what I don't get.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463994</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:38:13 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463971</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Oblivously some of it went to cure congestion, they purchased DPI boxes....]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463971</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:35:05 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463969</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1380445"><b>Scoop</b></A> : Bell gets $20 a month for each Teksavvy customer.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463969</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:34:52 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463961</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1579250"><b>BonkersInc</b></A> : Just out of curiosity, approximately what percentage of TSI's revenue goes to Bell?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463961</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:32:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463942</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by me13 :</small><br><br>Not true Bell has been upgrading, from 1 meg modems to ATM networks, to GiGe networks, with more remotes. This year Bell will spend over $500 million dollars on capital expense, not including $700 million for wilrless spectrum.<br> </div>So what about that bandwidth problem? If they really have been upgrading, there wouldn't any kind of congestion that they're claiming.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463942</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:30:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463927</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Not true Bell has been upgrading, from 1 meg modems to ATM networks, to GiGe networks, with more remotes. This year Bell will spend over $500 million dollars on capital expense, not including $700 million for wilrless spectrum.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463927</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:27:43 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463912</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : Well you're partly right, TSi has been upgrading but Bell has not. THAT'S THE PROBLEM! If they have been continually upgrading like they have in the past, they wouldn't have had to put in DPI and now it's costing them more to manage the network than simply upgrading it. <br><br>The other thing is, Bell has been putting in these upgrades themselves! Why didn't they just stop accepting orders if they really had a bandwidth problem? That's the question we should really be asking.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463912</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:25:07 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463883</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : That make sense and i guess for sympatico the easiest way not to upgrade the network is to lose all their customers to teksavvy or rogers. The rest of the world simply upgrades their networks to avoid problems that can linger forever like Bell has gotten themselves into.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463883</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:20:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463836</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : If TSi spent all that money upgrading their part of the network, then it would cost Bell money as the trasport and DSLAMs would need upgrades, so even with your added business there is still costs to be incurred. You would still be far below having 5megs of bandwidth available for each customer. As you do all these upgrades, what happens to your subscription rates? ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463836</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:14:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463789</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : some telcos including Bell have metered lines for POTS, so much per call. Not very popular.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463789</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:06:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463784</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by riojew04532 :</small><br><br>...higher utilisation does cost Bell more money, and the current tariff doesn't reflect that.  </div>Hang-on there.... This issue has "0" to do with the wholesale side and to make this statement is erroneous.  TekSavvy leases from the backbone piece coming from the customers home from Bell, back-hauls it to Toronto and delivers its own service.  I say this as without the TekSavvy portion in Toronto, people aren't getting online, so this isn't Bell's network, it's TekSavvy's... We hired Bell to deliver a portion of our network to get it done.  This is the Common Carrier component piece that I feel was somehow ignored. <br><br>This said... If TekSavvy customers use more capacity on the backbone, then TekSavvy purchases more Gig-E connections, more AGAS components (to aggregate all traffic back to Toronto, hence pre-purchasing the backbone capacity), buy more ERXs, Switches, space in 151 Front street, transit from its other vendors (Peer1, Cogent, Tiscali, etc...) and opens a maintenance window, with some warning to its clients, and runs upgrades!  This in turn gives us whatever needed capacity we require to service all the needs or our clients responsibly, Peer1, Cogent, Tiscali make more money on our transit and go figure, Bell now also makes more money as we purchased more DSL connections, but even more than that, we purchased more Gig-E/AGAS service, which pre-pays for all this "extra" expense they require due to this "increase" in demand!<br><small>--<br>TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br><br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463784</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:05:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463783</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Well said riojew04532! Maybe some day we will be charged by the amount we use, not the speed we have much like some telcos, but I would rather have this system.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463783</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:05:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463616</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : That is whack: Bell will not and can not "throttle" voice calls... it just doesn't happen because it's a different beast. The only use limitation on calling is that a trunk is available between you and the end party to handle the call. In the old days, at peak periods, you sometimes couldn't get a line out of the city because of peak calling periods, much like its hard to place a call at midnight on new years eve on any cell network.<br><br>This deicison applied only to the GAS services because they are by their nature variable performance services. Sync rate will vary, as will provisioned backhaul capacity per user and the utilisation of other users, which means that throughput, latency and packet loss are not guaranteed. <br><br>Oversubscription is why access is so affordable compared to buying directly from someone like cogent. Look at the total amount of high speed accounts TSI has and it's total transit capacity; they're probably not buying 5mbps per user of transit or AGAS capacity. It is also why throttling and usage based billing are coming; the all you can eat broadband buffet wasn't sustainable as a business and higher utilisation does cost Bell more money, and the current tariff doesn't reflect that. On the road to usage based billing, they're flirting with DPI until everyone is on usage based billing, then they will likely relax it. Wholesale providers have been shielded from much of the reality of maintaining a network because Bell handles most of the network elements they use, including the approx. 400 DPI boxes they acquired under the initial order with Arbor, which is a lot of throughput to manage.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463616</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:40:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: An observation</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463410</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1598011"><b>AdrianF</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Sempronius <A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by Exit_i_Bell  :</small><br><br>  Long term however, I suspect that Bell Canada is a serous risk of being the architect of its own demise.<br> </div>Well said.  And the privatization deal isn't going to help Bell.<br> </div>Amen to that.<br><br>I've been a long-term Hell(tm) customer since I had my first modem back in 1986 on a C64.  Yesterday, after waiting my 30-day holdover period, my internet connection was successfully migrated to TSI without incident.  My phone will be slated next week.  My cell phone business left Hell Disability(tm) some 14 months ago for the same lack-lustre customer service and was given to Telus because, as a past customer, they were able to give me two phone plans that nobody could touch.  And their customer service, for me anyhow, has been top notch.<br><br>I realise that I'm still giving Hell(tm) the wholesalers rate but I'd rather give them as little of the pie as I can.  Robbers(tm) Lo-Speed has been a horrific experience for me ever ytime I've tried it in the past with speeds not even reaching 300bps so I'm kinda stuck as to who to go with :)<br><br>Hell(tm) is in a very dangerous position with alienating many of their long term customers (and has already done that for thousands I'm sure).  And for someone who's been with them religiously for 20+ years, they didn't seem to give a flying f--k that I was walking away.  With that kind of great customer (dis)service, they could be on the brink of collapsing their own company through their own practices.  <br><br>Who knows, maybe they only want to be a wholesaler in the end?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463410</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:08:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>An observation</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463363</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by Exit_i_Bell :</small><br><br>  Long term however, I suspect that Bell Canada is a serous risk of being the architect of its own demise.<br> </div>Well said.  And the privatization deal isn't going to help Bell.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463363</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:01:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>An observation</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463297</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : It seems pretty clear to me from studying, over the last 18 months, numerous forums discussing Bell Canada, its performance, behaviour and treatment of those that it thinks of as suckers but calls customers (in all areas of its business) and numerous discussions with the public at large, that Bell Canada is spawning a whole generation of angry Bell-haters, an entity that virtually did not exist 15 years ago.<br><br>In the short term Bell Canada (especially with the willing assistance of a "business interests over consumer interests, long live the oligarchs" federal government, and sucker-baiting marketing) may prevail and shake a few more shekels out of consumers to pad its bottom line.  Long term however, I suspect that Bell Canada is a serous risk of being the architect of its own demise.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463297</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:52:10 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463264</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1598011"><b>AdrianF</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  andyb <A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Adrian you need to read the crtc article from the cbc in the other thread.</div>Andy:<br><br>I just did and I can't believe the crap that the CRTC is shoveling.  Do they really think the public is that stupid?  I agree with Michael Geist that it's impressive what's been accomplished this far in the past year and a bit but, at the same time, it's hard not to feel defeated/deflated.<br><br>For the CRTC spokesperson to claim, "[G]iven the narrow scope of this complaint, we ruled the way we did but I'm not sure anyone should be looking at this as a win-lose, it's the start of a process. We recognized there's a need to take a look at the broader issue in Canada of traffic- and network-management practices. This will begin the process" as well as the CRTC failing to inform the CAIP and its members on two separate occasions doesn't jive with me.  <br><br>It's like CRTC either doesn't care or is in the back-pocket of the big telco's (which we already know).  More importantly, for them to claim that it's the start of a process?  Yeah, a process where we all get screwed by Bell Canada - yeah, that's it.  The entire practice of traffic and network management is something that is NOT REQUIRED.  It was proven repeatedly that the network is not being crippled because of excessive traffic.  This is just Bell's way of controlling "the Internet" and if that's going to be the case perhaps we all need to rexamine other options that avoid Bell altogether.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463264</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:45:49 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463216</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><b>andyb</b></A> : We still havent't seen proof of this congestion and many 'experts' say it's false and that if it was congested it's an easy fix.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/shownews/95679">Industry Laughs Off Bell Canada Congestion Claims</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463216</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:36:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463191</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><b>andyb</b></A> : Adrian you need to read the crtc article from the cbc in the other thread<br><br>"CBCNews.ca: So today's decision isn't an endorsement of Bell's claims that its network is congested?<br><br>Katz: Absolutely not. In fact, someone told me Bell put out a press release that said the commission upheld its position that network management practices are a fundamental right of theirs. That's not what we said at all."]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463191</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:31:26 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463161</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/356677"><b>Deadpool</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.charlieangus.net/newsitem.php?id=405&PHPSESSID=ada02428aa115a44c5eb60c4f4d56e97" >www.charlieangus.net/newsitem.ph&middot;&middot;&middot;f4d56e97</A><br><br>Charlie Angus' response to the CRTC ruling.<br><br>"- NDP Digital Issues Critic, Charlie Angus says that today&#146;s CRTC decision on Net Neutrality is a blow to the protection of an open internet in Canada.  The decision validates the internet service providers&#146; (ISPs) practice of unilaterally deciding what constitutes &#145;reasonable network management,&#146; despite the fact that they stand to gain financially from the unfair practice.<br><br> &#147;Whether it&#146;s throttling the internet, imposing unfair text message fees or price gouging on cell-phone rates,  it seems Canadian telcos can count on the backing of this government. CRTC is applying outdated rules that this government has refused to change, leaving the average consumer and emerging business models at the mercy of the Telecom Giants.&#148;<br><br>Angus says the decision will hurt efforts for maintaining an open and neutral internet infrastructure.  He does, however, welcome the CRTC's promise to engage in a further investigation of network management practices in Canada.<br><br>&#147;The next round of this fight starts today. The CRTC failed in its first chance to stand up to an agenda that is anti-competitive, anti-innovation, and anti-consumer, but the fight for fair and transparent internet management will continue to grow.&#148;<br><br>In the last parliament, Angus introduced bill C-552, the first piece of legislation in Canada that would prevent telecommunication giants from arbitrarily throttling internet traffic in an unreasonable way.<br><br>&#147;What&#146;s at stake with Net Neutrality is the future of the innovation agenda in Canada. Plainly speaking, the Telco Giants have shown that padding their bottom line is far more important than making sure Canada stays on the cutting edge of innovation.&#148;"<br><br>Didn't Bill C-552 state that the Telco was allowed to throttle if congested?<br><small>--<br>Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463161</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:25:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463117</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  R0CKY <A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17657" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17657</A><br> </div>Thanks.   To think that Mr. Bibic has the nerve to claim that &#147;[t]his is good news for Internet users across Canada who benefit from better managed networks&#148; and that, "[w]ith this decision, the Commission has rightly confirmed that network operators are in the best position to determine how to operate their networks effectively and efficiently, to allow fair and proportionate use of the Internet by all users&#148; is utterly disgusting!<br><br>How is this a "better managed network" and what is "fair and proportionate use of the Internet by all users"?  Some people use 5 meg sevice to check e-mail and read the news while others use it to stream video content.  Others will use it to download media files (or share them with others).  I don't believe that Hell(tm) has any right to determine fair and proportionate use especially when they unthrottle access to their own video store!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463117</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:16:43 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: Wholesale pricing</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463106</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  devnuller <A HREF="/useremail/u/1365270"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Not sure I understand. If I was and ISP selling to a wholesaler I would charge them 95%ile usage billing for the total traffic. The more they use the more the spend (re-cooping cost). Throttling on large cap wholesale services does not make any sense if you get more revenue from more traffic.<br><br>Am I missing something?<br> </div>We pay per play already.... in fact we pre-buy non-internet traffic space, which is what has me baffled with this decision as the AGAS component (aggregation of traffic) has us pre-buying space for X amount of data to flow through it, never mind the Gig-E connections and the per user fees per month!  :huh:<br><small>--<br>TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br><br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463106</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:15:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463098</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  erfans <A HREF="/useremail/u/1587840"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Would someone who has been following this thread and the story be kind enough to summarize what has happend or direct me to a post that does so?  Thanks and sorry for the trouble.<br> </div>www.michaelgeist.ca<br><br>(and as Rocky had just posted to me):<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17657" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17657</A><br><br>Michael's blog is a great place to start with an understanding of what happened - and the article Rocky just posted to me makes me sick to my stomach.  I hate BELL even more now.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463098</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:12:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463083</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17657" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17657</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463083</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:10:27 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463079</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  R0CKY <A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>This isn't true.  They throttled their own clients first, saw they were losing business at a faster pace, and opted to level the playing field.</div>Exactly.  Bell realised that by screwing their own customers, that most smart ones would leave for "greener pastures."  As soon as people started leaving hand-over-fist: BAM!  Bell goes and screwes everyone by opting to "level the playing field" regardless of the terms of agreement.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463079</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:09:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463062</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by anon32156 :</small><br><br>Take the emotion out of this argument for just a minute. The decision centered around whether Bell discriminated towards the wholesalers and clearly they did not, so the CRTC had to hand down this decision in Bell's favour. This is like a Union Grievance at arbitration...only contract law comes into play. There clearly was no discrimination. Now comes the real battle...throttling itself.<br> </div>This isn't true.  They throttled their own clients first, saw they were losing business at a faster pace, and opted to level the playing field.<br><small>--<br>TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br><br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463062</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:06:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463000</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1587840"><b>erfans</b></A> : Would someone who has been following this thread and the story be kind enough to summarize what has happend or direct me to a post that does so?  Thanks and sorry for the trouble.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21463000</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:56:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21462904</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Bell sure as heck did break a law!<br><br>The existing laws and regulations require Bell to give 30 days notice to the ISPs before making any changes like throttling.<br><br>Bell violated that and snuck it in without giving notice, then denied it for months until the evidence became overwhelming that they were throttling.  Then, Bell claimed network congestion that they needed to manage that they couldn't prove existed (60% capacity at worst? Not congestion).<br><br>The CRTC decision is Bell has to give 30 days notice from now on.  Exactly how is this different from the existing regulation that they violated in the first place?  What is the consequence of their having broken it this time?  Why should we expect them to follow this regulation since they got away with breaking it last time with nada consequences, not even a slap on the wrist?<br><br>This is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21462904</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:42:31 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21462658</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : i say, someone with a huge botnet "throttles" bells links to the internet just to 30k. can't be illegal as crtc just ruled that bell can do this.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21462658</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:08:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21462579</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/397645"><b>rijswijk</b></A> : hey humans are most intelligent creatures on earth ??<br>how could that be true as we pay politicians to ignore us.<br><br>Theres only one way to beat this cancel Bell<br>wonder what bell would do if all DSL was through resellers only and they had zero clients<br><br>all phone service was through resellers or Volip<br><br>We all know this will never happen and just like bell tried to make me believe everyone is coming back to them and that unlimited will be canceled next year, actually bells retention team said that the only way to keep unlimited was to not cancel my grandfathered account and i will have the best service available soon as all other isp's will be forced cap at 60gb soon WILL HAPPEN!<br><br>GET RID OF BELL<br><small>--<br>To be or not to be is just a question its what you do that gives you the answer</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21462579</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:54:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461432</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : and these are the people we let run the country.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461432</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:50:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461332</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1212082"><b>davidbrown</b></A> : Is the crtc corrupt.<br><br>Hell yeah that not a secret and its been known for years.<br>Up tell now we didn't realize just how much of it was and thats been made perfectly clear.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461332</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:30:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461260</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Nonsense, You can say the CRTC is corrupt all you want. The public has the right to know if it's government is corrupt.<br><br>Who is going to take you to court?  The CRTC? What a laugh!!!<br><br>Go to &raquo;<A HREF="http://tochat.tv/viewforum.php?f=5" >tochat.tv/viewforum.php?f=5</A>, here there is a lot of info on CRTC corruption. Is the CRTC suing tochat.tv?<br><br>The forum has a whole topic entitled "CRTC corruption."]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461260</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:40:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461249</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Nonsense, You can say the CRTC is corrupt all you want. The public has the right to know if it's government is corrupt.<br><br>Go to &raquo;<A HREF="http://tochat.tv/viewforum.php?f=5" >tochat.tv/viewforum.php?f=5</A>, here there is a lot of info on CRTC corruption.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461249</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:36:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461229</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : it's absolutely possible that CRTC corrupts.<br><br>They allows Bell continue throttling, the direct benefit to bell is that<br>1) Less competition. Less players in the market<br>2) More control of the Internet. Can have more rooms to apply rules and charge more from customers<br><br>so, Bell paying CRTC for the deny is possible]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461229</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:30:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461017</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DJMASACRE <A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>He was responsible, he gave some names.  whether they are directly connected or not doesnt matter.  <br><br>you see all the mail that people get for freely filling out forms ? <br><br>he simply posted common information anyone could gather. <br><br>any if you work for the NCR, get to work, and stop being a bully =P<br> </div>Encouraging the harassment of innocent people is not responsible.  I am glad that he has since removed that suggestion from his post, and added proper identifying information so that people can choose the appropriate people to direct their concerns to.<br><br>And I don't work for the NCR.  NCR is a place, not an organization.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21461017</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:03:28 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460910</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  tertech <A HREF="/useremail/u/1544683"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DJMASACRE <A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  shopkins <A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>Damn you live in Nepean too... watch out for Big Black Jeeps ;-)<br> </div>uh oh . <br><br>=)<br><br>/me runs <br> </div><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DJMASACRE <A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>If the older generations are too lazy and burnt out to care, then just DIE already, so we can just get on with it and take over in the technology century ..<br><br>what good is these old farts running the world for us, who no longer understand the world, and only care about themselves before they die.<br><br></div> <br><br>You'd better watch when you cross any roads!  I'll be aiming for any young'in pedestrians I see on Nepean roads. When I score one, I'll tell the cops that I'm old and don't understand this new-fangled technology to know which pedal made the car stop. <br> </div>well my older generation i mean 50+ atleast. <br><br>dont mean to be generalizing, but im not going to pick out the few who understand technology, and arent complaining about not being able to use their bunny ears soon. ;)<br><br>i dont think im a young-in anymore.. sorta in the middle i suppose.  ;)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460910</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:32:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460637</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : check out this reply in &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.thestar.com/business/article/540321" >www.thestar.com/business/article/540321</A><br>Time to make a move...<br><br>Im a Wireless ISP in Quebec since last year. I decide to choose this kind of isp only for one thing. I dont need bell canada for my backbone.I paid 30 000$ to install a 10ghz wireless link between montreal and my town for not having any business with bell. The business model that include to relay on bell canada cannot be at long terms benefit for any ISP. It's just a way to make money on back of bell canada with the help of crtc. If you want a country with more competition. It's maybe the time of all independant isp to build their own network and stop using bell canada. It's the only way to beat bell.<br><br>Submitted By PCaddict ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460637</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:35:54 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460593</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1558949"><b>dvdguy2005</b></A> : Sorry if this was already posted:<br><br>We're not endorsing internet throttling: CRTC<br><br>The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission is not defending internet throttling, the CRTC's vice-chairman said Thursday after the federal watchdog ruled Bell Canada was not breaking laws by slowing down certain uses of the internet.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/11/20/tech-crtcqna.html" >www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008&middot;&middot;&middot;qna.html</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460593</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:27:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460438</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><b>shopkins</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  tertech <A HREF="/useremail/u/1544683"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>You'd better watch when you cross any roads!  I'll be aiming for any young'in pedestrians I see on Nepean roads. When I score one, I'll tell the cops that I'm old and don't understand this new-fangled technology to know which pedal made the car stop. <br> </div>+1.... though I still hope I am almost considered a young'in ;-)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460438</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:59:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460419</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1544683"><b>tertech</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DJMASACRE <A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  shopkins <A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>Damn you live in Nepean too... watch out for Big Black Jeeps ;-)<br> </div>uh oh . <br><br>=)<br><br>/me runs <br> </div><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DJMASACRE <A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>If the older generations are too lazy and burnt out to care, then just DIE already, so we can just get on with it and take over in the technology century ..<br><br>what good is these old farts running the world for us, who no longer understand the world, and only care about themselves before they die.<br><br></div> <br><br>You'd better watch when you cross any roads!  I'll be aiming for any young'in pedestrians I see on Nepean roads. When I score one, I'll tell the cops that I'm old and don't understand this new-fangled technology to know which pedal made the car stop. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460419</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:54:12 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460388</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/982977"><b>AMailer</b></A> : What can we/I do now? I'm really not sure oo I signed petitions, sent emails; What else?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460388</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:47:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460356</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1533367"><b>nicomaniaque</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.thestar.com/business/article/540321" >www.thestar.com/business/article/540321</A><br><br>omg!!!<br><br>internet is a free space??? heu... no... internet is BELL...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460356</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:38:48 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460331</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><b>globus999</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Omr <A HREF="/useremail/u/929913"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Bill C61 was dropped because of an election ... I'm sure it'll rear it's ugly head again.<br> </div>Maybe... BUT... and it is a big BUT... it WAS stopped by... gasp!... PEOPLE!!!<br><br>Let this be a lesson for you boys and girls...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460331</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:34:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460319</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/929913"><b>Omr</b></A> : Bill C61 was dropped because of an election ... I'm sure it'll rear it's ugly head again.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460319</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:32:31 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460301</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><b>globus999</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  shikotee <A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br> When I asked how this decision was reached, I was told (ballpark) that it was a 13 member committee that reached this decision. Personally, I wouldn't mind knowing a little bit more about who these people were - ie their backgrounds.<br></div>That's no secret.  The 13 members are the Chairman and 12 other commissioners.<br><br>Their backgrounds vary and come from both within and outside the industries.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/commissioners.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/commissioners.htm</A><br> </div>Humm... here is an idea... why not request ALL the records of the meeting where the decision was taken. That would include ALL of them, voice, written, copied, etc. We could use the FOI if necessary. Let's embarras the b*stards!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460301</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:28:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460295</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : CRTC : Communications in the public interest !<br><br>How sad .... :huh:]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460295</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:26:49 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460214</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><b>globus999</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Abattoir <A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>    :</small><br><br>And, as has been explained to you in the thread, <b>public</b> action was needed BEFORE the CRTC ruled PRECISELY because now it is all UP HILL!!!<br><br>AMAZING, you STILL DON'T GET IT!!!<br> </div>What's amazing is that you don't understand that no-one would touch the issue until the CRTC had ruled.  Courts, competition bureau, MPs, NOBODY would do anything until the CRTC had ruled.<br><br>Now that they have ruled on this one small portion of the issue, we have to raise hell to make sure they understand that this is WRONG.  If they rule that Bell's actions are totally within the law, then we need to pressure MPs to change the law!<br><br>It's an uphill battle, sure - but it's always been one.  It's Bell vs. the little guy.<br> </div>That's BS!!! Look what happened with the, now defunct, Copyright Bill. A few TENS of THOUSANDS people got up and started to complain. What happened? They dropped it. SAME situation, DIFFERENT RESULT! Do you get it now???]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460214</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:11:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460213</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : sounds good..tell me how ;)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460213</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:11:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460200</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><b>globus999</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>We saw how that went.  Every politician replied with a form letter stating "talk to the CRTC."<br><br>Idiot industry minister brushed it off with "we don't regulate the internet."<br><br>Next theory?<br> </div>Here we go again. Thank you for making MY point.<br><br>The point in case was that if ONLY a few thousands would bother NOTHING would happen. BINGO!! Nothing happened.<br><br>Now, why don't they try the REAL THING? i.e. Involve a few HUNDREDTH THOUSAND people and let's see what happens!!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460200</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:09:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460138</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : I think Videotron is just as likely to make it the focus of a marketing campaign as they are to do it themselves.<br><br>Think about it; they can put out commercials that talk about how Videotron offers 20 times more speed during peak hours than Bell, or how Bell slows down traffic during peak hours, there are so many ways that their marketing department can go hog-wild on this now that we know it's going to be sticking around for a while.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460138</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:58:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460099</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1279988"><b>Takobo</b></A> : Just read the interview of CBC and the VP of CRTC, he says the different of Comcast is they block, and Bell throttle, and it's a BIG DIFFERENT. <br>In today's ruling, CRTC doesn't mention any standards (time, duration, % speed) about the throttle. so, Bell can change at any speed they want, at any time, with any applications. <br><br>So, they could justify the congestion as <br>-if you download from apple store---> please download from bell movie store<br>-if you use gmail---> please use msn.sympatico<br>-if you want google,--->please use live.ca<br>-if you want skype/vonage---> please use landline and bell mobility<br>-if you want to read Journal de montreal ----> please read msn news.<br><br>Bell doesn't have to BLOCK you connection, just give you 5kb/s between 5am->1am daily. and Bell is STILL under all the requirements that being told by CRTC.<br><br>In Quebec, if i'm not wrong, Videotron is unthrottle, but cap. and i would not be surprised that they will apply throttling too, just matter of time.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460099</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:50:33 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460090</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shopkins <A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>No I will be looking for a naked, Bell-painted, blood soaked-should-have-taken-my-meds-in-the-morning guy that is <b>running</b> ;-)<br><br>Kidding of course.  Anyone crazy enough to look like a bell employee needs all the help they can get !  I will escort you to the Royal Ottawa Hospital (psych hospital ;-) )<br> </div>Sounds great ;)<br><br>yes, this whole issue, and reading the decisions, make me .. something .. something ... ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460090</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:48:23 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460012</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><b>shopkins</b></A> : No I will be looking for a naked, Bell-painted, blood soaked-should-have-taken-my-meds-in-the-morning guy that is <b>running</b> ;-)<br><br>Kidding of course.  Anyone crazy enough to look like a bell employee needs all the help they can get !  I will escort you to the Royal Ottawa Hospital (psych hospital ;-) )]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21460012</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:36:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459949</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shopkins <A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Damn you live in Nepean too... watch out for Big Black Jeeps ;-)<br> </div>uh oh . <br><br>=)<br><br>/me runs ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459949</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:25:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459945</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><b>shopkins</b></A> : Damn you live in Nepean too... watch out for Big Black Jeeps ;-)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459945</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:24:43 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459905</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shopkins <A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>After reading all of the posts, I do have to say that I see a lot of wasted emotion that should be directed at putting together coherent letter to your local newspaper editors.  I am disappointed that the throttle will not go a way right now, not because I use P2P but because I am interested in delivery of media via my internet pipes.  Despite my disappointment, I can see the ruling based on what the complaint was.  CAIP did not win their specific, narrow-objective complaint but they did win an audience and some long-term looks at the overall role of internet and applications that used it.<br><br>I am a TSI customer for more than one reason.  I am not happy with Bell in many ways.  I have spoken with my $ and moved to a place where Bell does not get as much money from me as they did before.  If I can justify the need for the bandwidth in the new year, I will get a second TSI line and use MLPPP to bond them together.<br><br>People need to move away from Bell, help their friends move away from Bell, and help their friends' friends move away from Bell.  And make sure that they tell the Bell CSR's each time - they are leaving because of Bell's policies and that they cannot trust that Bell's long term beliefs will allow for an open internet.<br><br>More will be accomplished by standing up in a forum more public than here - your local newspaper, TV, Radio, etc.  Stick your neck out there and you will be rewarded.<br> </div>yes, its the first day, i think i have 5 minutes to vent.  theres still 23h55min left in the day to do those hings .. <br><br>tommorow morning bright and early, im running through the streets naked, painting my body with Bell logos, then pouring a buckey of blood on myself, hanging out flyers to people to make them aware =)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459905</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:17:56 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459896</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  otty <A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>DJMASACRE: "but i would think even if your not a computer savvy person, it shouldnt excuse it, because the world is all going to be digitized soon ."<br><br>=>But I would think even if you're not a "recycle" person, it shouldn't excuse it, because the world is all going to be full of garbage soon /:<br> </div>Exactly .. so everyone sees things like that in different ways .<br><br>now, which is more important ?<br><br>or which will we need to fix first ? <br><br>or why cant we just do both ? <br><br>;) <br><br>atleast im making an EFFORT though<br><br>and i think thats what counts...<br><br>what could be the worse, is seeing people in power or even the average person with no friggin clue.<br><br>All they care about is their cell phone and their email . <br><br>they should have killed facebook and msn when they had the chance . hehe<br><br>gosh darn AOL ! =)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459896</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:15:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459884</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>    :</small><br><br>Did you just randomly collect email addresses that belong to CRTC employees?  I would remove many of these, as they have nothing to do with the issues at hand.  While I understand peoples' frustration, email-bombing people not involved is silly.</div>I am merely collecting information freely available in the public domain.  What people do with said information is not my concern.   Surely your not suggestion the flow of information on the internet be restricted, are you?<br> </div>Way to dodge the issue.<br><br>You are posting a list of email addresses with the suggestion that people contact them, despite the fact that most of those people have NOTHING to do with the issues at hand.  If I'm unhappy with an experience at a restaurant, I don't start a write in campaign to a hardware store.  And if I think the manager is an idiot, I don't berate the dishwasher.<br><br>If people want to express their displeasure, good for them, go to it.  But their comments should be directed to people involved or related to the decision.<br><br>I'm not suggesting that the flow of information be restricted, I'm suggesting that you be responsible in how you go about posting that information.<br> </div>He was responsible, he gave some names.  whether they are directly connected or not doesnt matter.  <br><br>you see all the mail that people get for freely filling out forms ? <br><br>he simply posted common information anyone could gather. <br><br>any if you work for the NCR, get to work, and stop being a bully =P]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459884</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:13:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459878</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : DJMASACRE: "but i would think even if your not a computer savvy person, it shouldnt excuse it, because the world is all going to be digitized soon ."<br><br>=>But I would think even if you're not a "recycle" person, it shouldn't excuse it, because the world is all going to be full of garbage soon /:]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459878</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:12:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459847</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by LargerProb :</small><br><br>The bigger problem is that most of the populace is like my wife:<br>"Email works? Then I don't care, you're boring me with your geek talk. Go talk to your geek buddies.<br>Is E.T. on yet?"<br><br>That is where the real fight resides.<br> </div>Your right.. because once again ... the average computer user will use a 1,000-3000$ to check email, and could care less since they dont use more than 30-50kb/s ever on their internet connection, then wont notice any real bandwidth shaping...<br><br>caps do not affect them<br>throttling does not affect them<br>nothing affects them until their email account shuts down.<br><br>I knew the instant messaging/messaging people would turn into useless computer terds rather than nerds :P<br><br>not to say you have to be a nerd, but learn to use your computer to its potential atleast !<br><br>i guess im like that too .. i dont see how recycling will affect me directly, so i take the lazy route and just throw my paper in the garbage unless theres a recycling bin there<br><br>I know thats pretty bad, but hey, its the same thing... i dont think it afffects me so I ignore it<br><br>but i would think even if your not a computer savvy person, it shouldnt excuse it, because the world is all going to be digitized soon .<br><br>If the older generations are too lazy and burnt out to care, then just DIE already, so we can just get on with it and take over in the technology century .. <br><br>what good is these old farts running the world for us, who no longer understand the world, and only care about themselves before they die.<br><br>f*ckin vent ! ;)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459847</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:04:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459698</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : >>>>VERY WELL SAID SHOPKINS>>>>>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459698</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:38:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459658</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1553727"><b>shopkins</b></A> : After reading all of the posts, I do have to say that I see a lot of wasted emotion that should be directed at putting together coherent letter to your local newspaper editors.  I am disappointed that the throttle will not go a way right now, not because I use P2P but because I am interested in delivery of media via my internet pipes.  Despite my disappointment, I can see the ruling based on what the complaint was.  CAIP did not win their specific, narrow-objective complaint but they did win an audience and some long-term looks at the overall role of internet and applications that used it.<br><br>I am a TSI customer for more than one reason.  I am not happy with Bell in many ways.  I have spoken with my $ and moved to a place where Bell does not get as much money from me as they did before.  If I can justify the need for the bandwidth in the new year, I will get a second TSI line and use MLPPP to bond them together.<br><br>People need to move away from Bell, help their friends move away from Bell, and help their friends' friends move away from Bell.  And make sure that they tell the Bell CSR's each time - they are leaving because of Bell's policies and that they cannot trust that Bell's long term beliefs will allow for an open internet.<br><br>More will be accomplished by standing up in a forum more public than here - your local newspaper, TV, Radio, etc.  Stick your neck out there and you will be rewarded.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459658</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:32:12 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459647</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1335690"><b>joshb</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  TheMG <A HREF="/useremail/u/1484077"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I hope Telus doesn't get any stupid ideas from this.<br> </div>Your probably too late.. It's known they have the ability... They use it all the time with there TTV service...<br><br>At this point lets just hope they don't decide to push it onto everyone else....<br><br><small>edit grammer / spelling </small><br><small>--<br>Live long and prosper, Mom</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459647</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:30:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459593</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1352959"><b>Trisomy21</b></A> : In Canada? I think you're asking a bit too much.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459593</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:20:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459541</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1544497"><b>nydwarf1</b></A> : Just another stupid decision by a bunch of clueless bureaucrats. Don't they ever put people in these positions who have a clue what they are talking about? ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459541</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:11:07 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459264</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/273051"><b>HiVolt</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  hoyohoyo <A HREF="/useremail/u/1455415"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>so...if im understanding this correctly; the throttling is allowed on wholesalers such as teksavvy and velcom?<br> </div>Yes, the throttling will continue, since the gutless CRTC totally sidestepped the entire issue and basically said, Bell throttles their retail customers, so throttling wholesale is OK.<br><small>--<br>GO LEAFS GO!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459264</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:13:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459237</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1484077"><b>TheMG</b></A> : I hope Telus doesn't get any stupid ideas from this.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459237</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:09:25 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459218</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/273051"><b>HiVolt</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  newSymp <A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>well i think it's time that companies start changing their advertising techniques.<br><br>Example <br><br>5mp internet will only be available for all applications during the times of  4am and 8am or something..<br><br>During Peak hours Certain applications will be restricted to the "30kb" because Bell and the CRTC believe its the right thing to do.<br> </div>Bell doesn't mention traffic shaping ANYWHERE in their advertising, not even in fine print. Its just buried in the user agreement somewhere disguised as "reasonable network management" that fools you into thinking its for your own good.<br><br>Why would the wholesalers mention this? This would put them at a further disadvantage, since they can only advertise up to 5mbps, whereas Bell is advertising 7, 10, 16mbps packages all over the place.<br><small>--<br>GO LEAFS GO!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459218</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:05:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459207</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1455415"><b>hoyohoyo</b></A> : so...if im understanding this correctly; the throttling is allowed on wholesalers such as teksavvy and velcom?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459207</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:03:44 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459043</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Unfortunately, the lame and stupid Canadian CRTC rules in favor of Bell Canada. Read this sad ruling news here:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/11/20/tech-bell.html" >www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008&middot;&middot;&middot;ell.html</A><br><br>My condolences to our Canadian neighbors.<br>Tyranny still rules.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21459043</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:22:12 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458244</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><b>JAC70</b></A> : Some CRTC emails, compiled for your convenience. Responsible use of information freely available to the public domain is your responsibility.<br><br>info@crtc.gc.ca   (K. Remy)<br>procedure@crtc.gc.ca<br>replies@crtc.gc.ca<br>telinfo@crtc.gc.ca<br>telinfo.list@crtc.gc.ca<br>telinfo.licence@crtc.gc.ca<br><br><b>Commissioners and Secretary General</b><br><br>konrad.vonfinckenstein@crtc.gc.ca <br>timothy.denton@crtc.gc.ca<br>michel.arpin@crtc.gc.ca<br><br><b>General</b><br><br>annie.laflamme@crtc.gc.ca<br>bill.mason@crtc.gc.ca<br>claude.brault@crtc.gc.ca<br>denis.carmel@crtc.gc.ca<br>diane.roy@crtc.gc.ca<br>james.wilson@crtc.gc.ca<br>jeanne.lacombe@crtc.gc.ca<br>jennifer.wilson@crtc.gc.ca<br>jeremy.lendvay@crtc.gc.ca<br>joelle.bernier@crtc.gc.ca<br>linda.iezzi@crtc.gc.ca<br>linda.wollenschlager@crtc.gc.ca<br>madeleine.bisson@crtc.gc.ca<br>Marielle.Giroux-Girard@crtc.gc.ca<br>martine.vallee@crtc.gc.ca<br>moira.letourneau@crtc.gc.ca<br>nancy.devine@crtc.gc.ca<br>nancy.gabler@crtc.gc.ca<br>peter.mccallum@crtc.gc.ca<br>regan.morris@crtc.gc.ca<br>renee.fairweather@crtc.gc.ca<br>sheehan.carter@crtc.gc.ca<br>stephen.millington@crtc.gc.ca<br>valerie.lagace@crtc.gc.ca<br>veronique.lehoux@crtc.gc.ca<br><br><b>Phone Numbers</b><br><br>CRTC Members  <br><br>Chairman, Konrad von Finckenstein 819-997-3430 <br><br>Vice-Chairman, Broadcasting, Michel Arpin 819-997-8766 <br><br>Vice-Chairman, Telecommunications,  Len Katz 819-997-8766 <br><br>Commissioner, Michel Morin 819-953-4375 <br><br>Commissioner, Marc Patrone 819-953-9958 <br><br>Commissioner, Timothy Denton 819-953-5388 <br><br>Commissioner, Louise Poirier 819-953-0435 <br><br>Part-time Commissioner, Peter Menzies 819-953-5241 <br><br>Commissioner, Elizabeth A. Duncan<br>(Atlantic) 819-997-4764<br>902-426-2644 <br><br>Commissioner, Suzanne Lamarre<br>(Quebec) 819-934-6347<br>514-496-2370 <br><br>Commissioner, Rita Cugini<br>(Ontario) 819-997-2431<br>416-954-6269 <br><br>Commissioner, Vacant<br>(Alberta/NWT) 819-997-3917<br>604-666-2914 <br><br>Commissioner, Candice J. Molnar<br>(Manitoba/Saskatchewan) 819-997-4485<br>306-780-3423 <br><br>Commissioner, Stephen B. Simpson<br>(B.C./Yukon) 819-953-6026<br>604-666-2914 <br><br>Positions at CRTC<br><br>konrad.vonfinckenstein@crtc.gc.ca, Chairman, CRTC<br>timothy.denton@crtc.gc.ca, Commissioner, CRTC<br><br>denis.carmel@crtc.gc.ca,Director, Media and Parliamentary Relations<br>bill.mason@crtc.gc.ca, No one by that name listed at CRTC<br>claude.brault@crtc.gc.ca, Senior Analyst, Distribution and Policy Applications, BROADCASTING<br>jeanne.lacombe@crtc.gc.ca, Senior Analyst,Competition, Implementation and Technology, Telecommunications <br>jeremy.lendvay@crtc.gc.ca, Senior Analyst,Competition, Implementation and Technology, Telecommunications <br>annie.laflamme@crtc.gc.ca, A/Directyor, French Language TV Policy and Applications, BROADCASTING<br>veronique.lehoux@crtc.gc.ca, Legal Counsel<br>nancy.gabler@crtc.gc.ca, Budget Administration, Learning and Event Coordinator, Human Resources<br>linda.wollenschlager@crtc.gc.ca, Data Analyst, Industry Analysis<br>martine.vallee@crtc.gc.ca, Director, English-Language Pay, Specialty TV and Social Policy, BROADCASTING<br>nancy.devine@crtc.gc.ca, Executive Assistant, Legal Directorate<br>jennifer.wilson@crtc.gc.ca, Director General, Human Resources<br>linda.iezzi@crtc.gc.ca, Junior Analyst, Distribution and Policy Applications, BROADCASTING<br>moira.letourneau@crtc.gc.ca, No one by that name listed at CRTC<br>diane.roy@crtc.gc.ca, Assistant Director, Financial Policy, Planning and Systems<br>renee.fairweather@crtc.gc.ca, Director General, Strategic Communications and Parliamentary Affairs<br>denis.carmel@crtc.gc.ca - duplicate, see above<br>sheehan.carter@crtc.gc.ca, Manager, Infrastructure and Competitive Policy, BROADCASTING<br>regan.morris@crtc.gc.ca, Legal Counsel<br>Marielle.Giroux-Girard@crtc.gc.ca, Manager, Regulatory Planning and Reporting, Telecom Process<br>stephen.millington@crtc.gc.ca, Legal Counsel<br>valerie.lagace@crtc.gc.ca, No one by that name listed at CRTC<br>joelle.bernier@crtc.gc.ca, Senior Analyst,Competition, Implementation and Technology, Telecommunications ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458244</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:16:52 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458984</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>I think you should also add who each of those individuals are, so that people can make an informed decision about what they choose to do.  The implication is that all of them had something to do with the ruling, when only 2 of them were directly involved, and potentially another 1 or 2 indirectly involved.<br> </div>If you wish to research their titles, by all means do so, and I will append that information to my post.  See if you can get direct phone numbers, too.<br> </div>IM sent.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458984</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:06:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458916</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><b>JAC70</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>I think you should also add who each of those individuals are, so that people can make an informed decision about what they choose to do.  The implication is that all of them had something to do with the ruling, when only 2 of them were directly involved, and potentially another 1 or 2 indirectly involved.<br> </div>If you wish to research their titles, by all means do so, and I will append that information to my post.  See if you can get direct phone numbers, too.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458916</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:51:16 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458905</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>You are posting a list of email addresses with the suggestion that people contact them, despite the fact that most of those people have NOTHING to do with the issues at hand.  If I'm unhappy with an experience at a restaurant, I don't start a write in campaign to a hardware store.  And if I think the manager is an idiot, I don't berate the dishwasher.<br><br>If people want to express their displeasure, good for them, go to it.  But their comments should be directed to people involved or related to the decision.<br><br>I'm not suggesting that the flow of information be restricted, I'm suggesting that you be responsible in how you go about posting that information.<br> </div>I modified my original post so as not to appear to be condoning any improper behaviour.  While I respect your right to voice your displeasure in your own fashion, others may not share your beliefs.<br> </div>I think you should also add who each of those individuals are, so that people can make an informed decision about what they choose to do.  The implication is that all of them had something to do with the ruling, when only 2 of them were directly involved, and potentially another 1 or 2 indirectly involved.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458905</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:48:57 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458870</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><b>JAC70</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>You are posting a list of email addresses with the suggestion that people contact them, despite the fact that most of those people have NOTHING to do with the issues at hand.  If I'm unhappy with an experience at a restaurant, I don't start a write in campaign to a hardware store.  And if I think the manager is an idiot, I don't berate the dishwasher.<br><br>If people want to express their displeasure, good for them, go to it.  But their comments should be directed to people involved or related to the decision.<br><br>I'm not suggesting that the flow of information be restricted, I'm suggesting that you be responsible in how you go about posting that information.<br> </div>I modified my original post so as not to appear to be condoning any improper behaviour.  While I respect your right to voice your displeasure in your own fashion, others may not share your beliefs.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458870</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:44:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458858</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  otty <A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Ever heard of advertising? You don't have to be directly involved to have people try and influence you. And they do it for a reason...it works.<br> </div>Again, way to miss the point.  Even advertising is targeted.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458858</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:42:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458851</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>    :</small><br><br>Did you just randomly collect email addresses that belong to CRTC employees?  I would remove many of these, as they have nothing to do with the issues at hand.  While I understand peoples' frustration, email-bombing people not involved is silly.</div>I am merely collecting information freely available in the public domain.  What people do with said information is not my concern.   Surely your not suggestion the flow of information on the internet be restricted, are you?<br> </div>Way to dodge the issue.<br><br>You are posting a list of email addresses with the suggestion that people contact them, despite the fact that most of those people have NOTHING to do with the issues at hand.  If I'm unhappy with an experience at a restaurant, I don't start a write in campaign to a hardware store.  And if I think the manager is an idiot, I don't berate the dishwasher.<br><br>If people want to express their displeasure, good for them, go to it.  But their comments should be directed to people involved or related to the decision.<br><br>I'm not suggesting that the flow of information be restricted, I'm suggesting that you be responsible in how you go about posting that information.<br> </div>Ever heard of advertising? You don't have to be directly involved to have people try and influence you. And they do it for a reason...it works.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458851</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:41:02 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458839</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : Wholesalers should be demanding Bell rent the lines for less  the fee Wholesalers now pay Bell, given the fact that Bell was not honest and up front about the throttling to begin with.   ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458839</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:38:13 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458835</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>Did you just randomly collect email addresses that belong to CRTC employees?  I would remove many of these, as they have nothing to do with the issues at hand.  While I understand peoples' frustration, email-bombing people not involved is silly.</div>I am merely collecting information freely available in the public domain.  What people do with said information is not my concern.   Surely your not suggestion the flow of information on the internet be restricted, are you?<br> </div>Way to dodge the issue.<br><br>You are posting a list of email addresses with the suggestion that people contact them, despite the fact that most of those people have NOTHING to do with the issues at hand.  If I'm unhappy with an experience at a restaurant, I don't start a write in campaign to a hardware store.  And if I think the manager is an idiot, I don't berate the dishwasher.<br><br>If people want to express their displeasure, good for them, go to it.  But their comments should be directed to people involved or related to the decision.<br><br>I'm not suggesting that the flow of information be restricted, I'm suggesting that you be responsible in how you go about posting that information.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458835</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:37:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458812</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><b>newSymp</b></A> : well i think it's time that companies start changing their advertising techniques.<br><br>Example <br><br>5mp internet will only be available for all applications during the times of  4am and 8am or something..<br><br>During Peak hours Certain applications will be restricted to the "30kb" because Bell and the CRTC believe its the right thing to do. <br><br>So when you are paying 29.95 - 49.95 on DSL with different providers you will not be getting the advertised speeds during the times stated <br><br>thats how internet should be sold, and if anyone has a problem please refer to the CRTC AND BELL CANADA for more inquiries and why this is happening.<br><br>If i was with bell i'd ask for money back or a credit since during these times my internet can not fulfill the full advertised speeds OR NEAR those speeds that it used to because of the THROTTLING EQUIPMENT they have in place.<br><br>To me this sound like an issue for Class Action.<br><br>I would donate just for this.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458812</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:32:23 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458807</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><b>JAC70</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>Did you just randomly collect email addresses that belong to CRTC employees?  I would remove many of these, as they have nothing to do with the issues at hand.  While I understand peoples' frustration, email-bombing people not involved is silly.</div>I am merely collecting information freely available in the public domain.  What people do with said information is not my concern.   Surely you're not suggestion the flow of information on the internet be <i>restricted</i>, are you?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458807</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:31:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458759</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : I'm sure the airwaves on this evening's 6:00 p.m. news will be carrying this story; CBC, CTV, Global, CityTV...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458759</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:24:26 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458744</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1109355"><b>DabberDan</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shikotee <A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Just read up on Finckenstein...<br><br>- acted as Commissioner of Competition and head of the Competition Bureau of Canada between 1997 and 2003. <br> </div>ROFL!!! And he sided with Bell?! Not firing on all pistons I think.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458744</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:21:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458741</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : And by virtue of the face, for those who are able, suspend all services with Bell.  Move to another provider for home phone, internet and television.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458741</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:20:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458736</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shikotee <A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Just read up on Finckenstein...<br><br>- appointed as Chairman of the CRTC on January 25, 2007. <br>- has held a number of senior positions and acquired broad experience in the areas of trade, commercial and competition law. <br>- acted as Commissioner of Competition and head of the Competition Bureau of Canada between 1997 and 2003. <br>- during the 1980s, he served as Senior General Counsel with Industry Canada and the Trade Negotiations Office.<br>- Mr. von Finckenstein&#146;s term ends on January 24, 2012<br><br>I feel sick......<br> </div>He was also a judge of the Federal Court from 2003 to 2007.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458736</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:20:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458724</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><b>shikotee</b></A> : Just read up on Finckenstein...<br><br>- appointed as Chairman of the CRTC on January 25, 2007. <br>- has held a number of senior positions and acquired broad experience in the areas of trade, commercial and competition law. <br>- acted as Commissioner of Competition and head of the Competition Bureau of Canada between 1997 and 2003. <br>- during the 1980s, he served as Senior General Counsel with Industry Canada and the Trade Negotiations Office.<br>- Mr. von Finckenstein&#146;s term ends on January 24, 2012<br><br>I feel sick......]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458724</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:17:48 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458720</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/578590"><b>Mashiki</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Sempronius <A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I agree.  Above all, let's not stoop to Bell's level.  The best way is to maintain a level of professionalism and take this matter directly to our local MPP's.  The Government needs to hear our voices. </div>MP's and the Minister of Industry are your best bet since this is a Canada-wide issue not a provincial one alone, and the MP's have more who-to-do and say with the CRTC as well, with the PM.  <br><br>Remember regardless of whether you contact your MP, MPP or anyone in the government it's free to write them(no postage required).  And I strongly suggest writing.  Despite that it's depreciated for many of us in the electronic age, it will make a larger impact for 'those old folks' in government.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458720</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:16:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458718</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : Or media coverage on the subject...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458718</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:15:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458697</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Sempronius <A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br></div>Did you just randomly collect email addresses that belong to CRTC employees?  I would remove many of these, as they have nothing to do with the issues at hand.  While I understand peoples' frustration, email-bombing people not involved is silly.<br></div>I agree.  Above all, let's not stoop to Bell's level.  The best way is to maintain a level of professionalism and take this matter directly to our local MPP's.  The Government needs to hear our voices.<br> </div>I'm not so sure....water cooler talk (or maybe it's more Champagne bar?) can make a difference...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458697</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:12:25 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458692</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  shikotee <A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by Maynard G Krebs   :</small><br><br>All the CRTC did in their ruling is to define what the word "is" is... </div>I thought that the bird is the word! ;)<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1842929/family_guy_the_birds_the_word/" >www.metacafe.com/watch/1842929/f&middot;&middot;&middot;he_word/</A><br><br>But seriously....<br><br>I received a callback from the CRTC pretty quick!<br>22 minutes, to be precise! Thought I had way more time, and was not really ready! <br><br>Overall, I was told that it is an important issue, and it is for this reason that the public consultation will take place. <br><br>When I asked how this decision was reached, I was told (ballpark) that it was a 13 member committee that reached this decision. Personally, I wouldn't mind knowing a little bit more about who these people were - ie their backgrounds.<br> </div>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/Eng/about/commissioners.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/Eng/about/commissioners.htm</A><br>If it was 13 members, they probably didn't include Timothy Denton...the only one that has a clue what we're talking about.<br> </div>Well, I'm not sure any more if Denton was excluded or not.  13 members would be all of them, including Denton (the Secretary General, who is name number 14 on the link, doesn't count).  I had previously posted that on his appointment it was announced that he wouldn't be involved, but frankly I misremembered what was said.  Here is the text from the press release announcing his appointment:<br><br>"Mr. Denton is currently working on telecom issues for a coalition of ISPs. Before commencing his new role with the CRTC, he will complete his work for the Internet society."<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.pch.gc.ca/newsroom/index_e.cfm?fuseaction=displayDocument&DocIDCd=CJV080490" >www.pch.gc.ca/newsroom/index_e.c&middot;&middot;&middot;JV080490</A><br><br>Given the end date of his term, it sounds like he started on July 31, 2008, which likely would have had him involved in this decision.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458692</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:11:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458663</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  NCRGuy <A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br></div>Did you just randomly collect email addresses that belong to CRTC employees?  I would remove many of these, as they have nothing to do with the issues at hand.  While I understand peoples' frustration, email-bombing people not involved is silly.<br></div>I agree.  Above all, let's not stoop to Bell's level.  The best way is to maintain a level of professionalism and take this matter directly to our local MPP's.  The Government needs to hear our voices.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458663</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:06:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458654</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shikotee <A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by Maynard G Krebs  :</small><br><br>All the CRTC did in their ruling is to define what the word "is" is... </div>I thought that the bird is the word! ;)<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1842929/family_guy_the_birds_the_word/" >www.metacafe.com/watch/1842929/f&middot;&middot;&middot;he_word/</A><br><br>But seriously....<br><br>I received a callback from the CRTC pretty quick!<br>22 minutes, to be precise! Thought I had way more time, and was not really ready! <br><br>Overall, I was told that it is an important issue, and it is for this reason that the public consultation will take place. <br><br>When I asked how this decision was reached, I was told (ballpark) that it was a 13 member committee that reached this decision. Personally, I wouldn't mind knowing a little bit more about who these people were - ie their backgrounds.<br> </div>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/Eng/about/commissioners.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/Eng/about/commissioners.htm</A><br>If it was 13 members, they probably didn't include Timothy Denton...the only one that has a clue what we're talking about.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458654</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:05:19 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458634</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Some CRTC emails, compiled for your convenience. I'm sure they'd all be interested in hearing your thoughts on the decision.<br><br>info@crtc.gc.ca   (K. Remy)<br>procedure@crtc.gc.ca<br>replies@crtc.gc.ca<br><br>konrad.vonfinckenstein@crtc.gc.ca <br><br>denis.carmel@crtc.gc.ca<br>bill.mason@crtc.gc.ca<br>claude.brault@crtc.gc.ca<br>timothy.denton@crtc.gc.ca<br>jeanne.lacombe@crtc.gc.ca<br>jeremy.lendvay@crtc.gc.ca<br>annie.laflamme@crtc.gc.ca<br>veronique.lehoux@crtc.gc.ca<br>nancy.gabler@crtc.gc.ca<br>linda.wollenschlager@crtc.gc.ca<br>martine.vallee@crtc.gc.ca<br>nancy.devine@crtc.gc.ca<br>jennifer.wilson@crtc.gc.ca<br>linda.iezzi@crtc.gc.ca<br>moira.letourneau@crtc.gc.ca<br>diane.roy@crtc.gc.ca<br>renee.fairweather@crtc.gc.ca<br> </div>Did you just randomly collect email addresses that belong to CRTC employees?  I would remove many of these, as they have nothing to do with the issues at hand.  While I understand peoples' frustration, email-bombing people not involved is silly.<br><br>Claude Brault, Annie Laflamme, Martine Vallee, and Linda Iezzi  work in the Broadcasting side, and have nothing to do with telecommunications policy.<br><br>Jennifer Wilson and Nancy Gabler work in HR.<br><br>Diane Roy works in Finance.<br><br>Others are junior analysts who have no responsibility for the commission's decisions.  The only legitimate targets are von Finckenstein and Denton, as members of the commission.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458634</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:02:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458633</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1437510"><b>KPaul</b></A> : exactly, some people wont leave tsi due to that fact, meaning boycott bell entirely isn't possible.  while I can't do anything, given my opseu cell plan is with bell, I still would love to do nothing more than home this pos company goes bankrupt.  hence, why I would love to donate towards something like a legal strike.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458633</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:02:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458630</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1109355"><b>DabberDan</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Bender_2k <A HREF="/useremail/u/752023"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>(as much as I hate giving Bell money, it's at least better than giving it to Rogers...barely better).<br> </div>Well, you are cutting 33% (rough estimate) if you switch to TSI. And you end up supportking someone who's willing to fight.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458630</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:01:57 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458616</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1109355"><b>DabberDan</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  KPaul <A HREF="/useremail/u/1437510"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>that would involve leaving tsi so bell gets NO cash too eh?<br> </div>If you want considerably lower caps, pay more, possibly talk to someone overseas for your problem, yeah.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458616</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:59:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458615</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : ty for the heads up Steve.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458615</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:58:56 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458612</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  KPaul <A HREF="/useremail/u/1437510"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>that would involve leaving tsi so bell gets NO cash too eh?<br> </div>Ya what we need is more cable wholesalers (other than 3web who can't seem to get their act together). I hear there is not money to be made in it as the CRTC set price is too high.<br><br>...also giving money to Robers isn't a much better option :(]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458612</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:58:41 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458611</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/752023"><b>Bender_2k</b></A> : Ah, my bad, was looking at outdated information.<br><br>Anyway, 20 GB cap at 7 Mbps sounds...painful...will stick with TSI (as much as I hate giving Bell money, it's at least better than giving it to Rogers...barely better).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458611</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:58:25 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458605</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1430304"><b>TSI Steve</b></A> : Official new release from TekSavvy Solutions, Inc.<br>See the following link:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://teksavvy.com/en/news.asp?ID=7&mID=4" >teksavvy.com/en/news.asp?ID=7&mID=4</A><br><br>Steve<br><small>--<br>TSI Steve - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458605</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:58:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458604</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Unfortunately, if you want to punish Bell, you have to punish TSI, EBOX, Acanac, etc, as some of all dsl $$$ goes to Bell. Dry-loop too.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458604</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:58:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458600</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1437510"><b>KPaul</b></A> : that would involve leaving tsi so bell gets NO cash too eh?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458600</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:56:32 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458597</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1109355"><b>DabberDan</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Bender_2k <A HREF="/useremail/u/752023"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Doesn't Rogers own Videotron now anyway?<br> </div>No, Quebecor Inc. does...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458597</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:55:41 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458593</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/752023"><b>Bender_2k</b></A> : Doesn't Rogers own Videotron now anyway?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458593</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:54:47 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458588</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1597424"><b>pat2008</b></A> : yup, ever since i learned about the throttling issue i've tried finding a decent ISP, i read some about TSI and seen rocky and other TSI write here.  I thought what an open company.<br><br>More research and i switched, i had bell call me yesterday ASKING why im switching and i flat out told them why and the guy started giving attitude on the phone.<br><br>Screw bell, i wish TSI had other options but i guess while bell has the CRTC in their pocket its game over in canada<br><br>And i can't help but laugh at the above comic!!! LOL!!!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458588</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:54:02 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458569</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : This comic just about sums it up.<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#000000 nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/21458569?c=1371675&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyMTQ1MzUyNS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="26798 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=368 SRC="/r0/download/1371675~fe0f699c1e907c997565aec093bfc74d/fix-your-internet[1].gif"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458569</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:50:13 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458568</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1109355"><b>DabberDan</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  pat2008 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1597424"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>if everyone would stop talking and start boycotting i think something might start getting done.  Canadians like to bitch (as i really enjoy venting) but if even 20% of the 2 million customers bell has boycotted, they'd feel the pintch<br><br>I say we as canadians start fighting back and hurting their wallets.  They want to play games with us lets play with them<br> </div>I'm boycotting to TSI since day one. This still provides some revenue to Bell (which sucks). The only other option would be Videotron and that would be at a greater cost to me (20GB download @7Mbps? Come on!), so that's out of the question.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458568</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:50:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458561</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/512567"><b>travisc</b></A> : Problem is, only maybe 5% of Bell customers would be aware of the issue, and maybe 0.5% care.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458561</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:49:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458536</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : "btw someone in bell forum is locking all topics concerning this in the bell forum"<br>go say something nice about that.<br> ****BoYcott****]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458536</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:44:33 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458530</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  pat2008 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1597424"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>if everyone would stop talking and start boycotting i think something might start getting done.  Canadians like to bitch (as i really enjoy venting) but if even 20% of the 2 million customers bell has boycotted, they'd feel the pinch.<br><br>I say we as Canadians start fighting back and hurting their wallets.  They want to play games with us lets play with them<br> </div>Exactly!  I followed through this morning doing just that after reading the CRTC's ruling by cancelling my home phone with Bell and moved over to Rogers, as I already have television and internet with Rogers.  I refuse to do business anymore with Bell.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458530</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:43:07 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458495</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1597424"><b>pat2008</b></A> : if everyone would stop talking and start boycotting i think something might start getting done.  Canadians like to bitch (as i really enjoy venting) but if even 20% of the 2 million customers bell has boycotted, they'd feel the pintch<br><br>I say we as canadians start fighting back and hurting their wallets.  They want to play games with us lets play with them]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458495</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:36:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458494</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509988"><b>j3richo</b></A> : they literally dismissed every single point we made]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458494</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:36:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458491</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427767"><b>TSI Gabe</b></A> : Woah guys call down. The only thing we should be mad at is the situation not at each other.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458491</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:36:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458463</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1437510"><b>KPaul</b></A> : fucking fuck..........<br><br>hey tsi, can I kindly donate some $$ if you decide legal action is needed here?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458463</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:32:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458442</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shikotee <A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br> When I asked how this decision was reached, I was told (ballpark) that it was a 13 member committee that reached this decision. Personally, I wouldn't mind knowing a little bit more about who these people were - ie their backgrounds.<br></div>That's no secret.  The 13 members are the Chairman and 12 other commissioners.<br><br>Their backgrounds vary and come from both within and outside the industries.<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/commissioners.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/commissioners.htm</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458442</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:29:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458438</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : The bigger problem is that most of the populace is like my wife:<br>"Email works? Then I don't care, you're boring me with your geek talk. Go talk to your geek buddies.<br>Is E.T. on yet?"<br><br>That is where the real fight resides.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458438</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:28:55 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458350</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shikotee <A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DJMASACRE <A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>In other words " now your asking too many questions ... and im not prepared to tell you without a credit card number "<br><br>you can emailus and we'l ignore it or send you out the standard template for such a question "<br><br>why didnt you just call them out ;) <br><br>i bet he say the same thing to redirect it to the secretary general . lol <br> </div>Mostly because the person that I spoke to on the phone came across as a decent person, and because I realized that he was not the one who made decision, but was the one who had to deal with it! <br><br>I'd rather find out more about the decision makers themselves and the process the used to reach their decision, as opposed to venting on some poor sucker!<br><br>Anger will not resolve this problem.....<br> </div>Yeah thats right .. message boards are for venting ;) ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458350</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:09:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458344</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1529878"><b>Sears</b></A> : Score one more for big business. Oh, and those net neutrality hearings are pure lip service. Absolutely nothing will come of it.<br><br>Disgusting.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458344</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:08:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458317</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  JAC70 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1590104"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>Some CRTC emails, compiled for your convenience. I'm sure they'd all be interested in hearing your thoughts on the decision.<br><br>info@crtc.gc.ca   (K. Remy)<br>procedure@crtc.gc.ca<br>replies@crtc.gc.ca<br>LNNTE-NationalDNCL@crtc.gc.ca<br><br>konrad.vonfinckenstein@crtc.gc.ca <br><br>denis.carmel@crtc.gc.ca<br>bill.mason@crtc.gc.ca<br>claude.brault@crtc.gc.ca<br>timothy.denton@crtc.gc.ca<br>jeanne.lacombe@crtc.gc.ca<br>jeremy.lendvay@crtc.gc.ca<br>arthur.tam@crtc.gc.ca<br>annie.laflamme@crtc.gc.ca<br>veronique.lehoux@crtc.gc.ca<br>nancy.gabler@crtc.gc.ca<br>mediarelations@crtc.gc.ca<br>linda.wollenschlager@crtc.gc.ca<br>martine.vallee@crtc.gc.ca<br>nancy.devine@crtc.gc.ca<br>jennifer.wilson@crtc.gc.ca<br>linda.iezzi@crtc.gc.ca<br>moira.letourneau@crtc.gc.ca<br>diane.roy@crtc.gc.ca<br>david.colville@crtc.gc.ca <br> </div>Thanks for the list...Email bombed!!<br><br>EDIT: a couple already bounced back...overwhelmed server? Looks like some out of date addresses:<br><br>This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.<br> <br>Delivery to the following recipients failed.<br> <br>       lnnte-nationaldncl@crtc.gc.ca<br>       arthur.tam@crtc.gc.ca<br>       mediarelations@crtc.gc.ca<br>       david.colville@crtc.gc.ca<br> <br> <br> ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458317</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:05:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458306</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><b>shikotee</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DJMASACRE <A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>In other words " now your asking too many questions ... and im not prepared to tell you without a credit card number "<br><br>you can emailus and we'l ignore it or send you out the standard template for such a question "<br><br>why didnt you just call them out ;) <br><br>i bet he say the same thing to redirect it to the secretary general . lol <br> </div>Mostly because the person that I spoke to on the phone came across as a decent person, and because I realized that he was not the one who made decision, but was the one who had to deal with it! <br><br>I'd rather find out more about the decision makers themselves and the process the used to reach their decision, as opposed to venting on some poor sucker!<br><br>Anger will not resolve this problem.....]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458306</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:04:08 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458298</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : bah .. f*ck this . <br><br>100 readers ? <br><br>LETS GET OUT IN THE F*CKING STREET and yell at everyone<br><br>YOUR INTERNET IS SCREWED NOW MORON DONT YOU KNOW !<br><br>atleast we can do that in Canada, try doing that in Detroit. lol . <br><br>ok . ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458298</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:02:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458247</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  shikotee <A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by Maynard G Krebs  :</small><br><br>All the CRTC did in their ruling is to define what the word "is" is... </div>I thought that the bird is the word! ;)<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1842929/family_guy_the_birds_the_word/" >www.metacafe.com/watch/1842929/f&middot;&middot;&middot;he_word/</A><br><br>But seriously....<br><br>I received a callback from the CRTC pretty quick!<br>22 minutes, to be precise! Thought I had way more time, and was not really ready! <br><br>Overall, I was told that it is an important issue, and it is for this reason that the public consultation will take place. <br><br>When I asked how this decision was reached, I was told (ballpark) that it was a 13 member committee that reached this decision. Personally, I wouldn't mind knowing a little bit more about who these people were - ie their backgrounds.<br><br>I then asked why "specifically" the decision had been delayed. What new paramount information was obtained between now and the original announcement time-frame?<br><br>I was told that this was more a general inquiries line, and that more specific questions and concerns should be sent to the secretary-general via email or snail-mail......<br> </div>In other words " now your asking too many questions ... and im not prepared to tell you without a credit card number "<br><br>you can emailus and we'l ignore it or send you out the standard template for such a question "<br><br>why didnt you just call them out ;) <br><br>i bet he say the same thing to redirect it to the secretary general . lol ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458247</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:53:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458246</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><b>Abattoir</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>And, as has been explained to you in the thread, <b>public</b> action was needed BEFORE the CRTC ruled PRECISELY because now it is all UP HILL!!!<br><br>AMAZING, you STILL DON'T GET IT!!!<br> </div>What's amazing is that you don't understand that no-one would touch the issue until the CRTC had ruled.  Courts, competition bureau, MPs, NOBODY would do anything until the CRTC had ruled.<br><br>Now that they have ruled on this one small portion of the issue, we have to raise hell to make sure they understand that this is WRONG.  If they rule that Bell's actions are totally within the law, then we need to pressure MPs to change the law!<br><br>It's an uphill battle, sure - but it's always been one.  It's Bell vs. the little guy.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458246</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:53:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458235</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><b>shikotee</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by Maynard G Krebs :</small><br><br>All the CRTC did in their ruling is to define what the word "is" is... </div>I thought that the bird is the word! ;)<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1842929/family_guy_the_birds_the_word/" >www.metacafe.com/watch/1842929/f&middot;&middot;&middot;he_word/</A><br><br>But seriously....<br><br>I received a callback from the CRTC pretty quick!<br>22 minutes, to be precise! Thought I had way more time, and was not really ready! <br><br>Overall, I was told that it is an important issue, and it is for this reason that the public consultation will take place. <br><br>When I asked how this decision was reached, I was told (ballpark) that it was a 13 member committee that reached this decision. Personally, I wouldn't mind knowing a little bit more about who these people were - ie their backgrounds.<br><br>I then asked why "specifically" the decision had been delayed. What new paramount information was obtained between now and the original announcement time-frame?<br><br>I was told that this was more a general inquiries line, and that more specific questions and concerns should be sent to the secretary-general via email or snail-mail......]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458235</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:51:16 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458226</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>I call your BS and double the wager:<br><br>The whole point was that if the ISPs would have engaged their customers BEFORE the ruling, there would have been SO much pressure that the CRTC would have NOT dare to do what they did. NOW it is TOO late. NOW, to reverse the decision is ALL UP HILL. <br> </div>To do what?<br>The CRTC got more public input and complaints on this issue then on any other internet related issue, ever.<br><br>Rocky arranged 3 busses to ferry people to ottawa, how many showed up?<br> </div>Look, did you actually bother reading the thread? It won't seem so. I CLEARLY, PLAINLY explained what to do FOR DIRT CHEAP. In a nutshell:<br><br>1 - Each ISP should contact their customers and explain implications by e-mail.<br>2 - Each ISP should state its position to their customers by e-mail.<br>3 - Each ISP should provide a lousy webpage with standard wording and an automated mailing list to "people that matter" (aka politicians, civil servants, etc.) to increase the pressure and enourage their own customers to use it.<br><br>BINGO! Instant outrage. By the HUNDREDTH THOUSANDS (not a few lousy  thousands).<br><br>Total cost: a couple of hours worth of lawyer consultation, one web page and one mailing list. <br><br>1000$ ?  2000$ ? perhaps ???<br><br>BIG FRIGGIN DEAL!!!<br><br>But NOOOOOOOOOO they absolutely HAD to keep their mouth shut and DO NOTHING!<br><br>NOW? now it is going to cost a fortune, a GREAT deal of time and effort.<br><br>Talk about lost opportunities!!!!<br> </div>We saw how that went.  Every politician replied with a form letter stating "talk to the CRTC."<br><br>Idiot industry minister brushed it off with "we don't regulate the internet."<br><br>Next theory?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458226</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:49:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458220</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  jpabboud <A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A><br>Rocky arranged 3 busses to ferry people to ottawa, how many showed up?</small><br> </div>No offence but showing up there served no purpose. It's the regular Joe in the streets of Toronto and Montreal that needed to be targeted, the guys that had no idea throttling even existed or what it did exactly.<br><br>I changed my status on facebook to let people know the implications of the CRTC decision, I had at least 4 people reply to ask if their ISP's (VIF/AEI/INTER.NET) would be affected by this.<br> </div>yup its almost as if we need to spread awareness as much as the "GREEN" actions .. <br><br>and we all know how long it took to get people to atleast start recycling .. <br><br>man nobody cares about anything until its too late<br><br>and I thought I was lazy . <br><br>People care about 2 things.  1) their job 2) their timmies. <br><br>Then they vote conservative blindly. <br><br>what is wrong ... well i know whats wrong, .. why arent people seeing the world for what it is, rather than what they want it to be .. <br><br>is this what reality TV has done to us ... american idol gets you all caught up in the excitment of untalented singers to remove you from the fable in your life ? <br><br>too much drama from watching day time soaps, confuse you whats real and whats not ?<br><br>sorry but now im even more dissapointed in the people rather than the CRTC, only because again we see how little people know or care about the very things they own <br><br>1) computer<br>2) internet . <br><br>having a computer and internet just for checking hotmail and talking about facebook is a joke. <br><br>it like buying a mansion just to have a bed to rest.. i dont know . <br><br>learn about what you have, and maybe you can be involved in something important, instead of sitting on the sidelines saying " this doesnt affect me " while you change your lame status on facebook to tell people " im bored "<br><br>...  <br><br>=S ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458220</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:48:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458175</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><b>jpabboud</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A><br>Rocky arranged 3 busses to ferry people to ottawa, how many showed up?</small><br> </div>No offence but showing up there served no purpose. It's the regular Joe in the streets of Toronto and Montreal that needed to be targeted, the guys that had no idea throttling even existed or what it did exactly.<br><br>I changed my status on facebook to let people know the implications of the CRTC decision, I had at least 4 people reply to ask if their ISP's (VIF/AEI/INTER.NET) would be affected by this.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458175</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:40:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458173</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><b>globus999</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>I call your BS and double the wager:<br><br>The whole point was that if the ISPs would have engaged their customers BEFORE the ruling, there would have been SO much pressure that the CRTC would have NOT dare to do what they did. NOW it is TOO late. NOW, to reverse the decision is ALL UP HILL. <br> </div>To do what?<br>The CRTC got more public input and complaints on this issue then on any other internet related issue, ever.<br><br>Rocky arranged 3 busses to ferry people to ottawa, how many showed up?<br> </div>Look, did you actually bother reading the thread? It won't seem so. I CLEARLY, PLAINLY explained what to do FOR DIRT CHEAP. In a nutshell:<br><br>1 - Each ISP should contact their customers and explain implications by e-mail.<br>2 - Each ISP should state its position to their customers by e-mail.<br>3 - Each ISP should provide a lousy webpage with standard wording and an automated mailing list to "people that matter" (aka politicians, civil servants, etc.) to increase the pressure and enourage their own customers to use it.<br><br>BINGO! Instant outrage. By the HUNDREDTH THOUSANDS (not a few lousy  thousands).<br><br>Total cost: a couple of hours worth of lawyer consultation, one web page and one mailing list. <br><br>1000$ ?  2000$ ? perhaps ???<br><br>BIG FRIGGIN DEAL!!!<br><br>But NOOOOOOOOOO they absolutely HAD to keep their mouth shut and DO NOTHING!<br><br>NOW? now it is going to cost a fortune, a GREAT deal of time and effort.<br><br>Talk about lost opportunities!!!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458173</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:40:24 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458171</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1554612"><b>DJMASACRE</b></A> : wow, after all this ,<br><br>all the CRTC can say is " well next time give everyone 30 days notice ... "<br><br>like it was all ok, as long as they TOLD people what they were doing ?<br><br>so much for getting any real analasys on the subject<br><br>it took them that long to say " make sure you tell everyone 30 days in advance before you decide to rule the internet and fuck your customers ... "<br><br>what a slap on the wrist ... <br><br>I hope Mr. Bibic doesnt feel like he has won, because hes only going to get worse publicity now . <br><br>wow .. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458171</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:39:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458131</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/629088"><b>SHARPSHARK</b></A> : Well, at least I know someone who will be happy...<br><br>... my inflatable godzilla. Time to get it out of the bag.<br><small>--<br>SHARPSHARK</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458131</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:31:47 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458116</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I call your BS and double the wager:<br><br><b>The whole point was that if the ISPs would have engaged their customers BEFORE the ruling, there would have been SO much pressure that the CRTC would have NOT dare to do what they did. NOW it is TOO late. NOW, to reverse the decision is ALL UP HILL. <b><br> </div>To do what?<br>The CRTC got more public input and complaints on this issue then on any other internet related issue, ever.<br><br>Rocky arranged 3 busses to ferry people to ottawa, how many showed up?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458116</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:29:56 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458114</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1511161"><b>Stewy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by Maynard G Krebs :</small><br><br>Bottom line for all Canadians - if you aren't affected today, you will be tomorrow.<br> </div>and tomorrow will be bandwidth cap's and after that the Global Internet Initiative like in Australia. <br><br>No matter how clear cut it is and how you slice and dice it, it's clearly evident now that Bell has the CRTC in their back pocket. I never thought I'd say this but not only am I sad and dishearten but also truly ashamed to be called a Canadian. :huh:]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458114</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:29:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458105</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><b>globus999</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>And, as has been explained to you before, until the CRTC has ruled on it there is no other alternative.  Each an every telecom dispute has to hit the CRTC before you can take any other action.  NOW is when we can look at alternatives.<br> </div>And, as has been explained to you in the thread, <b>public<b> action was needed BEFORE the CRTC ruled PRECISELY because now it is all UP HILL!!!<br><br>AMAZING, you STILL DON'T GET IT!!!<br> </div>Amazing that you still don't get it.  You can take all the action you like as "the public" but until the CRTC makes ruling *nothing* changes.<br><br>Those businesses affected by the throttling have *no other recourse* then to appeal to the CRTC for a decision first.<br> </div>I call your BS and double the wager:<br><br><b>The whole point was that if the ISPs would have engaged their customers BEFORE the ruling, there would have been SO much pressure that the CRTC would have NOT dare to do what they did. NOW it is TOO late. NOW, to reverse the decision is ALL UP HILL. <b>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458105</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:27:23 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458104</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1335690"><b>joshb</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  joshb <A HREF="/useremail/u/1335690"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Discrimination was never the issue.  The issue was a) bell wants to throttle *their* customers.  Fine.  b) Bell started to bleed customers, so they throttled everyone else.  Not fine.<br><br> </div>The only problem is that at the most basic level of it all Teksavvy and every other Indie ISP is a bell customer in some way..<br><br>They Pay bell to transport there customer data from the field to 151 front...<br> </div>And they pay for a specific, contracted service level that is regulated by CRTC tariffs.  Both of which the CRTC has now basically just excused them from paying any attention to.<br> </div>I 100% agree with you... The only problem is that if you read the CRTC tarriffs where does it say that Bell can not manage there network...It doesn't, Network management is a fact of life it has to be done.... Sadly throttling is well known technique for network management...<br><br>In order for us to have won this case the tarriffs would have to go into that exact topic and when the tarriffs where done up network management was never thought to become an issue... The laws are behind the times...<br><br>Joshb<br><small>--<br>Live long and prosper, Mom</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458104</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:27:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458068</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by ts :</small><br><br>Hi,<br><br>I'm with the Toronto Star. We're looking for someone in the Toronto area that's been impacted by Bell's traffic shaping policy and would be willing to talk about their experiences and have their photo taken. If you are interested, please call 416-869-4839<br> </div>Bottom line for all Canadians - if you aren't affected today, you will be tomorrow.<br><br>There is a whole litany of issues surrounding what Bell (and others) do in this regard - as common carriers, as content providers, how the Criminal Code playing into this, and a host of other issues.<br><br>You'd be well advised to go back to January 2008 in this forum and work your way forward through many of the discussion threads to really understand  the issues.<br><br>All the CRTC did in their ruling is to define what the word "is" is (look up the Bill Clinton impeachment for that reference). They looked at a very narrow bit of the whole picture - as is the custom of lawyers - because their decision had to focus strictly on the narrow interpretation of the issue raise by CAIP.<br><br>Because of the fragmented nature of the system which surrounds this issue (CRTC, Competition Bureau, Criminal Code, what's morally right or not, when do you need a warrant to inspect electronic traffic of private parties) it practically requires a Royal Commission to get to the bottom of this, and then to Parliament to enact/amend laws - which given the predilection of the Conservative government will never happen. <br><br>Or perhaps just a ballsy Crown prosecutor to use the existing laws to force the issue.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458068</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:18:32 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458056</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Tell the CRTC how you feel:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://saveournet.ca/content/take-action" >saveournet.ca/content/take-action</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458056</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:16:39 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458048</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  joshb <A HREF="/useremail/u/1335690"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Discrimination was never the issue.  The issue was a) bell wants to throttle *their* customers.  Fine.  b) Bell started to bleed customers, so they throttled everyone else.  Not fine.<br><br> </div>The only problem is that at the most basic level of it all Teksavvy and every other Indie ISP is a bell customer in some way..<br><br>They Pay bell to transport there customer data from the field to 151 front...<br> </div>And they pay for a specific, contracted service level that is regulated by CRTC tariffs.  Both of which the CRTC has now basically just excused them from paying any attention to.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458048</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:15:57 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458040</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>And, as has been explained to you before, until the CRTC has ruled on it there is no other alternative.  Each an every telecom dispute has to hit the CRTC before you can take any other action.  NOW is when we can look at alternatives.<br> </div>And, as has been explained to you in the thread, <b>public<b> action was needed BEFORE the CRTC ruled PRECISELY because now it is all UP HILL!!!<br><br>AMAZING, you STILL DON'T GET IT!!!<br> </div>Amazing that you still don't get it.  You can take all the action you like as "the public" but until the CRTC makes ruling *nothing* changes.<br><br>Those businesses affected by the throttling have *no other recourse* then to appeal to the CRTC for a decision first.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458040</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:13:54 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458038</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><b>shikotee</b></A> : To voice my displeasure, and so I could clarify a few things pertaining to the ruling, I phoned the CRTC. The CRTC's phone number is 1-877-249-CRTC(2782). At present, they are taking down names and numbers, with the promise that someone will call back. I recommend that everyone do this! ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458038</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:13:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458010</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1559385"><b>k6richar</b></A> : They do get some money from TSI, but i believe that money is supposed to be close to the cost for bell to provide them with very little actual profit for bell.<br><br>i could be mistaken though.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21458010</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:08:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457988</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Sempronius <A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I bet since the posting of the CRTC ruling this morning, the phone lines at Bell have been ringing off the hook with subscriber's cancelling their services across the board.  I did just this morning.  I hope others follow suit.<br> </div>Thank you for joining in the good fight.  The sad part is that unless you're without a home phone, choose to use your cable company, or go to VOIP using Rogers, you're still supporting Bell in some capacity.<br><br>For us TSI customers, Bell receives between $20 and $22 a subscriber (as openly stated by Rocky, himself).  I'm sure at $28 (for a home phone with TSI featuring call display and an unlisted number), Bell still receives around $15-18.  So, even though you're not with "Hell," they're still getting money.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457988</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:03:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457985</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1444832"><b>Shada</b></A> : NOT HAPPY NOT HAPPY at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br>grrrrrr, I do not even know what to say other then Bell Sucks so bad!!!<br><br>SIDE NOTE- Quadro has upgraded Mitchell Ontario and all rural area's around it they manage (own their own lines not bells) to Fiber Optic. Friend lives in Trailer on Farmers Land and had an installer show up Yesterday put a new Box on his wall with a apc backup and wired up Fiber to his house then told him Faster speeds coming very soon.<br><br>If a small Company like Quadro can do it and Mornigtom Telecom can do the exact same thing in the Milverton Ontario and area then what is BIG Bells Problem. I want Fiber too.<br><br>BELL GO TO HELL]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457985</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:02:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457980</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1537581"><b>tux</b></A> : I logged in just to reply, and I haven't read every post in this thread, but I add my dismay to the list.  It's indeed a sad day today.  The ruling certainly calls into the question the integrity of the process and the CRTC itself imo. But it isn't over, we need to battle on and expand the scope, opening Pandora's box - privacy issues, the conflict of interest present with Bells infrastructure & service arms, etc. including challenging the validity of the regulatory body of the CRTC itself in regards to its mandate.<br><br>We continue the regression; Corporatism is alive and well in Canada.<br><small>--<br>Some people live life in the fast lane.  I play in oncoming traffic.<br><br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457980</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:01:27 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457963</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Arbalister, thank you for your well stated thoughts.  This issue is huge - hell, it's bigger than that.  Gigantic?  Bigger than that, too.  The ramifications that stem from this decision the CRTC posted today are too big to ignore.<br><br>It saddens me that the CRTC is so antiquated in its way of thinking that it can't see many of the basic analogies that have been brought forward.  I'm very disgusted that the CRTC saw nothing wrong with what Bell has done to the CAIP members.  <br><br>Yes, a judge in a proper court of law would see differently, however, the CRTC has ruled against the CAIP and any judge will have a hard time seeing past that since an official ruling was made.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457963</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:57:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457925</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1562232"><b>bgw</b></A> : I am very disappointed.<br><br>I have just started a little company that will depend on the internet.  I have, so far, being using the services of an accountant, a CMA, a graphic artist and am arranging to get a pair of testers.  Now that I can't rely on the internet to be fair to any traffic coming to my site I may move the company offshore.  Between my wife and I, we have three passports.  The Canadian Gov't may not earn any more taxes off me!  Nor will they make any money off of the people I employ!<br><br>When will Bell be throttling FTP and streaming video?  They have permission now!?!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457925</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:52:33 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457923</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/721975"><b>XNemesis</b></A> : A big problem is that the percentage of people here at DSLreports is a mere fraction of the whole population that uses Bell high speed either through bell or through another isp.  So while the issue is very serious, most people aren't even aware of it and also don't understand WHY it's important for them to care about this issue.<br><br>There needs to be a method of getting the information to the general public to explain why this musn't be allowed and thereby encouraging the average user to switch from Bell to an alternative.<br><br>But this cost lot's of $$$.<br><br>Hopefully the process of getting the public informed will begin in force now that this decision has come in.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457923</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:52:15 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457808</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1583668"><b>chronoss2009</b></A> : This also effectively ends the monetization of the internet hollywood would like to see in canada<br><br>and once the neo cons remove the levy and you can get sued for downloads, and fined.<br><br>Who the hell will want to have internet anyways.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457808</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:32:02 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457801</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1557939"><b>TSI Joel</b></A> : Three words : Frustrated. by. decision.  :mad:]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457801</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:31:15 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457776</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><b>shikotee</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>It's like one Energy wholesaler using Enbridge to reduce the flow of natural gas to every other wholesaler, simply because they choose to reduce the gas consumption of their own customers.  You can't allow one market entity to force their policy on every other entity in that market by changing the underlying structure.<br><br>If Esso decided to only sell gasoline in 10 gallon lots, they can't ask the refiners to stop making so much gas, to force their competitors to ration in the same manner.<br> </div>Good analogy!<br>This is precisely what the CRTC side-stepped....]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457776</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:27:43 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457768</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1583668"><b>chronoss2009</b></A> : AND yes now CAIP can effectively SUE bell canada.<br>and as ive said elsewhere contract law is a lot more precise and strict and there also is a "spirit" to be had here.<br><br>YOU build a 1000 lane highway.<br>I rent 100 lanes with full expectation to get to drive at 100KM, you then breach the spirit and tell me that i can only drive at 5 miles per hour during rush hour.<br><br>Few judges will rule in favor a bell regarding that analogy.<br>Think about it, if this decision were applied to the landlord tenant act.<br>You goto work , and landlord says you have full ability to use your room and services.<br>(note he does this to all his clients so its not discrimination?)<br>When you get home your only allowed ot be in 5% of your room, get 5% of the heat and water and electricity.<br>Ya know what would happen a fraking riot and there would be dead people from it. People would due to freezing to death, the hospitals would be clogged full a sick, and your taxes will go thorugh the roof.<br><br>Rember too that microsof tand bell are buddies, perhaps it truly is time for Canada to migrate to open source<br>linux to teach them , to pay them back for taking 2 billion a year form our ailing economy.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457768</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:26:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457742</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1335690"><b>joshb</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Discrimination was never the issue.  The issue was a) bell wants to throttle *their* customers.  Fine.  b) Bell started to bleed customers, so they throttled everyone else.  Not fine.<br><br> </div>The only problem is that at the most basic level of it all Teksavvy and every other Indie ISP is a bell customer in some way..<br><br>They Pay bell to transport there customer data from the field to 151 front...<br><br>I am not saying what bell did is right..Far from it.<br><br>But think most likely that is how the eyes of the crtc saw the case..<br><br>Now NN is a completely different case...and point.<br><br>Joshb<br><small>--<br>Live long and prosper, Mom</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457742</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:22:13 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457738</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : I bet since the posting of the CRTC ruling this morning, the phone lines at Bell have been ringing off the hook with subscriber's cancelling their services across the board.  I did just this morning.  I hope others follow suit.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457738</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:21:48 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457729</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><b>globus999</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Arbalister <A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>And, as has been explained to you before, until the CRTC has ruled on it there is no other alternative.  Each an every telecom dispute has to hit the CRTC before you can take any other action.  NOW is when we can look at alternatives.<br> </div>And, as has been explained to you in the thread, <b>public<b> action was needed BEFORE the CRTC ruled PRECISELY because now it is all UP HILL!!!<br><br>AMAZING, you STILL DON'T GET IT!!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457729</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:20:31 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457714</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by ts :</small><br><br>Hi,<br><br>I'm with the Toronto Star. We're looking for someone in the Toronto area that's been impacted by Bell's traffic shaping policy and would be willing to talk about their experiences and have their photo taken. If you are interested, please call 416-869-4839<br> </div>The people you *should* be talking to, aside from DSL users, are the ISPs.  Bell is not an ISP in this issue, they are a common carrier.  They are the provider of the infrastructure.  We're *not* talking about something that has been done by Sympatico, the ISP, we're talking about something that has been done by the infrastructure segment of Bell.<br><br>What they're getting away with, with this decision, will lead them to things like artificially reducing services for any party that requires last mile connectivity to homes or businesses.  Today it happens to be TekSavvy, or Execulink, or Acanac, or Primus.  It affects network traffic from those entities to their end users.  Tomorrow Bell might decide that Primus' local phone service uses too much bandwidth.  The CRTC has just greenlighted Bell to throttle that service, with 30 days notice.  Buy long distance from a 3rd party?  Guess what?  The CRTC now says that with 30 days notice, Bell can throttle the bandwidth used for those calls.  If you start noticing poor LD quality, that would be why.<br><br>Yes, throttling of file sharing protocols has adversly affected end users, but the bigger issue is what we've just given Bell permission to do to all the other users of Bell's infrastructure.  It's not a case of Sympatico dealing with a problem.  Sympatico *had* dealt with it, they throttled their customer base.  When they started bleeding customers, instead of making changes at the ISP level, they used their infrastructure to cripple everyone else to the same level that they chose for themselves.  It's like one Energy wholesaler using Enbridge to reduce the flow of natural gas to every other wholesaler, simply because they choose to reduce the gas consumption of their own customers.  You can't allow one market entity to force their policy on every other entity in that market by changing the underlying structure.<br><br>If Esso decided to only sell gasoline in 10 gallon lots, they can't ask the refiners to stop making so much gas, to force their competitors to ration in the same manner.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457714</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:18:02 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457704</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1583668"><b>chronoss2009</b></A> :  Heres a thought what if we could say for next summer all save up enough cash to pay the early termination on ANY bell services <br>AND JUST not have internet for two months or three<br>Spend the summer enjoying what you have got, etc.<br><br>It's the only way to teach them.<br>YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT.<br>And while it might also harm TSI etc. WE have to take this to another level.<br>if bell lost 20% of its residential revenues for 2-3 months, thats a HUGE HIT.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457704</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:15:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457684</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1429986"><b>shikotee</b></A> : If anything, what boggles me was why "specifically" was this decision delayed so many times, and why did they leave CAIP in the dark about it? <br><br>Secondly, why finally release the decision today, when the new Minister of Industry is in the United States?<br><br>Once can't help but suspect that the delay was caused by the federal election, and that the announcement (with one day notice) was chosen at a time when other issues (recession, economy, auto industry) are paramount for the average Canadian. <br><br>If anything, I'd like to get a better understanding of how the CRTC breaks down. How many people are involved in making this type of a decision, and what are their backgrounds?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457684</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:12:55 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457667</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1583668"><b>chronoss2009</b></A> : the decision is also whethar it harms wholesallers<br><br>to that end ill submit to rocky in writing if he wishes my companies response to this decision and why i cannot resell for TSI nor any third party or even the main ISP.<br><br>A) Canada's cost of internet is so expensive when you factor in this throttle and the fact bell canada and rogers now have the ability without or with little resistance to do as they wish, makes Canada an extremely bad investment.<br><br>B) Costs of doing business elsewhere in the world are far far better , just look to the south for while they head to net neutrality, Canada over night became big brother.<br><br>C) Fewer and fewer people will now afford internet. This leaves people behind. It removes innovation and the potential of a better canada.<br><br>D) Add the fact the new copyright law this time around will get made to law despite all the peopels whining means that effectively in one fell swoop , millions will migrate away form the net. The stupid ISP's don't realize what they are doing, is wrong for business. And when 20-30% of your residential clients leave that means you have less cash to add capacity, less chances to innovate.<br><br>DONT YOU DARE LATER ON ASK FOR A BAILOUT YOU GREEDY BASTARDS]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457667</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:09:13 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457621</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : I have, you can too:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.saveournet.ca/content/tell-crtc-what-you-think-their-decision" >www.saveournet.ca/content/tell-c&middot;&middot;&middot;decision</A><br>Will it make a difference? Nope, but they have to be made aware that they work for us, not the telco's.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457621</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:01:13 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457601</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by anon32156 :</small><br><br>This battle has been lost for the wholesalers but the war is not over. Clearly the CRTC decision was based on the "discrimination" issue and not the throttling itself. That argument is going to begin in February and continue into July so get your statements in before the deadline. This decision is a "double edge sword" for Bell in the sense they have been allowed to continue throttling but at what cost. Do they understand the number of people who dislike them even more now? These are potential customers...it is a competitive market not a monopoly anymore. Enough said.<br> </div>Discrimination was never the issue.  The issue was a) bell wants to throttle *their* customers.  Fine.  b) Bell started to bleed customers, so they throttled everyone else.  Not fine.<br><br>That's not discrimination, that's an outright attack on the ability of *every other DSL ISP* to provide differentiated services, and a blatant disregard for the contracts and tariffs that specify what the common carrier can and cannot do, on a whim, to their customers.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457601</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:58:04 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457565</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1506059"><b>Arbalister</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  globus999 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I FRIGGIN TOLD YOU SO!!!<br><br>For ALL those that did not bother to take me seriously, I remind you of:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/forum/remark,20882264?hilite=moronic+isps">Moronic ISPs!</A><br><br>NOW? NOW is TOO LATE!!<br> :mad:<br> </div>And, as has been explained to you before, until the CRTC has ruled on it there is no other alternative.  Each an every telecom dispute has to hit the CRTC before you can take any other action.  NOW is when we can look at alternatives.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457565</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:51:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457544</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : Always a joker in the pac :p]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457544</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:47:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457500</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1212082"><b>davidbrown</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by ts :</small><br><br>Hi,<br><br>I'm with the Toronto Star. We're looking for someone in the Toronto area that's been impacted by Bell's traffic shaping policy and would be willing to talk about their experiences and have their photo taken. If you are interested, please call 416-869-4839<br> </div>Thats about 150 people.<br><br>Funny thing is all be talking to another of your guys about bed bugs today...lol.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457500</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:41:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457490</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Hi,<br><br>I'm with the Toronto Star. We're looking for someone in the Toronto area that's been impacted by Bell's traffic shaping policy and would be willing to talk about their experiences and have their photo taken. If you are interested, please call 416-869-4839]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457490</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:40:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457477</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1212082"><b>davidbrown</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Guspaz <A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Usage-based billing, at least, needs prior CRTC approval. As in, they need the CRTC to give them permission before they do it, since while the issue of throttling isn't really covered by the tariffs, monetary costs are VERY well specified.<br> </div>Nope.<br><br>They have already tried shoving it down tech throat before the ruling today.<br>Since the other isp have no where else to go to get bandwidth and they need to renew their contracts with at bell at some point its coming.<br><br>Bell is required to sell to the other guys but there are no rules on how they have to do it.<br><br>And if  whats going on in the background goes through they wont even have to sell to them  in time.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457477</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:38:19 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457460</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by anon32156   :</small><br><br>Take the emotion out of this argument for just a minute. The decision centered around whether Bell discriminated towards the wholesalers and clearly they did not, so the CRTC had to hand down this decision in Bell's favour. This is like a Union Grievance at arbitration...only contract law comes into play. There clearly was no discrimination. Now comes the real battle...throttling itself.<br> </div>Okay, but it's the sneaky, under-handed way that Bell went about doing it, by not providing at least 30-days notice to inform wholesalers of their intention to throttle customers of wholesalers.  <br><br>I don't believe people would be so upset today if Bell had been up front about everything from the beginning.  The fight for an unthrottled Internet would have continued, but there wouldn't be this hatred and animosity. Bell has rightfully stolen what belongs to the people and the CRTC has aided them along the way in achieving this level of greediness to dominant, control and attempt to put the smaller Wholesalers out of business.  Bell does not want any competition.<br><br>Having said this, as I already have my television and internet with Rogers, I've followed through with cancelling my home phone service with Bell.  I now refuse to do business with Bell.  Rogers is not without its faults, but at least Rogers is wholly Canadian owned and operated and not outsourced, and doesn't throttle wholesalers.<br><br>Goodbye Bell!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457460</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:34:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457447</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1579250"><b>BonkersInc</b></A> : I expect the CAIP et al will be expected to pay all costs, since it's what Bell wanted, and Bell tends to win.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457447</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:32:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457440</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : Usage-based billing, at least, needs prior CRTC approval. As in, they need the CRTC to give them permission before they do it, since while the issue of throttling isn't really covered by the tariffs, monetary costs are VERY well specified.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457440</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:31:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457417</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1212082"><b>davidbrown</b></A> : So is everyone ready for  total throttling and usage billing?<br>It takes no genus to see that usage billing is going to be shoved down indp isps throats.<br><br>Bell has already been testing on throttling the only work around for throttling so that shortly going to be useless.<br><br>Welcome to hell folks and isn't it funny how we the public were the ones who paid for the lines bell owns...lo.<br><br>Sheesh what a joke its become.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457417</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:28:39 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457415</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : They declined to rule on the PIPEDA implications saying it's beyond the scope of the decision. Effectively, it's up to the courts, they're saying.<br><br>It's also interesting that the CRTC completely ignored the topic of deciding who pays for what; remember, there were a flurry of applications for costs to be covered, with Bell and CAIP arguing back and forth about who should pay. The CRTC hasn't said anything on the matter.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457415</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:28:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Wholesale pricing</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457414</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1365270"><b>devnuller</b></A> : Not sure I understand. If I was and ISP selling to a wholesaler I would charge them 95%ile usage billing for the total traffic. The more they use the more the spend (re-cooping cost). Throttling on large cap wholesale services does not make any sense if you get more revenue from more traffic.<br><br>Am I missing something?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457414</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:28:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457388</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : riojew04532 said:<br><br>"I expect someone will try to file a free speech case until the judiciary points them to a 1st year law text that the charter doesn't apply to private businesses, and there is not human rights complaint b/c there is no discrimination based on a recognised class of persons (ethnic, religious, sexual orientation, etc.)."<br><br>The Big M Drug Mart case had the Lords Day Act struck down as an Unconstitutional law under the s.2(a) freedom of religion even though as a corporation it does not have the right to the freedom of religion it still cannot be charged under an unconstitutional law<br><br>In the same way the CRTC regulations could be challenged as unconstitutional in many plausible situations.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457388</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:24:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457381</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/243195"><b>fatness</b></A> : He's not banned, or on post watch. He was asked to post his link and discussion in this thread. Apparently he is mistaken. <br><br>I believe this was his link: &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Decisions/2008/dt2008-108.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Decis&middot;&middot;&middot;-108.htm</A><br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1370721~74256f2b8b4b5b881ae82d211fa2c6ad/couch.jpg">goodbye dad</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457381</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:24:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457379</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1523173"><b>pnjunction</b></A> : It's obvious they weren't directly discriminating against wholesalers since Bell customers are also getting the shaft (although more willingly because they choose to stay with Bell).<br><br>Bell digging (ie. deep inspection) into our PPPoE packets to get IP addresses and application data should also be an issue (among other things).  As pointed out earlier, the ruling itself contains discrepancies on this subject.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457379</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:23:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457356</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><b>mr_hexen</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  tmpchaos <A HREF="/useremail/u/155094"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>He isn't.<br> </div>he posted that he got banned for trying to start a new topic. then that post dissapeared ;)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457356</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:20:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457347</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/155094"><b>tmpchaos</b></A> : He isn't.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457347</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:18:41 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457336</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1541542"><b>jibby</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Jman99 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1454856"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Why is JFMezei being blocked from this discussion?<br> </div>I'm wondering the same thing]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457336</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:16:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457311</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Take the emotion out of this argument for just a minute. The decision centered around whether Bell discriminated towards the wholesalers and clearly they did not, so the CRTC had to hand down this decision in Bell's favour. This is like a Union Grievance at arbitration...only contract law comes into play. There clearly was no discrimination. Now comes the real battle...throttling itself.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457311</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:11:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457302</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/243195"><b>fatness</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by Adrian F :</small><br><br>And, should anybody not have read it, Michael Geist actually posted a very good article about today's ruling on his blog:<br><br>  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>While the CRTC's decision to permit Bell's throttling practices is disappointing in the short term - and seems to place Canada on a different track from the U.S. - the decision is not a total loss for net neutrality supporters as the Commission made a clear commitment to addressing the issue of net neutrality and network management in a formal proceeding in July 2009.  Indeed, it is important not to lose sight of how much has changed in the past year. <br><br>Just over one year, [he] wrote a column noting the need for greater ISP transparency in the wake of Rogers' admission that it engaged in traffic shaping.  At the time, net neutrality was viewed as a fringe issue in Canada without much political traction.  In the span of 13 months, there has been a major CRTC case, a private member's bill on net neutrality, a rally on Parliament Hill, the emergence of BitTorrent as distribution tool for broadcast content, a more vocal business community supporting net neutrality, and a gradual shift of this issue into the political mainstream.  In the United States, the change has been even more dramatic - an FCC ruling on the throttling activities, proposed legislation, the shift of net neutrality to wireless, and a President-elect who has been outspoken on the need to preserve net neutrality.<br><br>In other words, today's CRTC decision is not the final word on net neutrality in Canada, but rather the first word on it.  The Commission itself has opened the door to broader hearings on the issue next year, which may come alongside the new media hearings that also offer the opportunity to raise net neutrality concerns.  Moreover, if the Commission comes to the conclusion that these practices are consistent with current Canadian law, there is the likelihood of growing calls from within Parliament to change the law.<hr></blockquote><br> </div>Thank you for posting this.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1370721~74256f2b8b4b5b881ae82d211fa2c6ad/couch.jpg">goodbye dad</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457302</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:09:54 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457283</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1388405"><b>elwoodblues</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Guspaz <A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>There is still hope. For one thing, there's the general ruling on net neutrality. I, for one, don't think the CRTC is in Bell's pocket, they're just incompetent.<br><br>There's also this: "Bell is still facing a class-action lawsuit in Ontario and Quebec over throttling. The suit was started by L'Union des consommateurs in May."<br> </div>But Bell can point to the CRTC ruling and say that their actions are legal and sanctioned by the "governing body"]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457283</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:06:54 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457279</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/675026"><b>BliZZardX</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  otty <A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  dataiv <A HREF="/useremail/u/591537"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>CRTC denies Internet 'traffic shaping' complaint<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081120.wcrtc1120/BNStory/Technology/home" >www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/&middot;&middot;&middot;ogy/home</A><br> </div>"The process is similar to allocating certain lanes on a highway to slow moving trucks to ease the flow of traffic in other lanes."<br><br>What a load of crap. Gotta make sure you don't get your news on ISPs from BellGlobemedia...<br> </div>The best part is the authoritative, "Bell Canada invests more on its network than any other Internet service provider"]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457279</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:06:27 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457273</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : There is still hope. For one thing, there's the general ruling on net neutrality. I, for one, don't think the CRTC is in Bell's pocket, they're just incompetent.<br><br>There's also this: "Bell is still facing a class-action lawsuit in Ontario and Quebec over throttling. The suit was started by L'Union des consommateurs in May."]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457273</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:05:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457261</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1184750"><b>iconfat</b></A> : deleted]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457261</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:04:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457250</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Unfortunately, if you make accusations or threats on the internet, you have the same burden of proof as anywhere else. It's your choice. The excuse "Well, I didn't mean it..." hold no grace before a court. <br> </div>Truth is an absolute defence to libel/slander buddy]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457250</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:03:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457248</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : This battle has been lost for the wholesalers but the war is not over. Clearly the CRTC decision was based on the "discrimination" issue and not the throttling itself. That argument is going to begin in February and continue into July so get your statements in before the deadline. This decision is a "double edge sword" for Bell in the sense they have been allowed to continue throttling but at what cost. Do they understand the number of people who dislike them even more now? These are potential customers...it is a competitive market not a monopoly anymore. Enough said.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457248</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:02:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457183</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1591150"><b>otty</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  dataiv <A HREF="/useremail/u/591537"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>CRTC denies Internet 'traffic shaping' complaint<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081120.wcrtc1120/BNStory/Technology/home" >www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/&middot;&middot;&middot;ogy/home</A><br> </div>"The process is similar to allocating certain lanes on a highway to slow moving trucks to ease the flow of traffic in other lanes."<br><br>What a load of crap. Gotta make sure you don't get your news on ISPs from BellGlobemedia...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457183</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:52:39 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457182</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/774850"><b>varius</b></A> : Probably a great day for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service...That deep packet inspection must be another great tool for them! The kind of tool they want Bell too keep...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457182</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:52:28 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457181</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/982977"><b>AMailer</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DrModem <A HREF="/useremail/u/1404903"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Independent ISPs pool your resources and start building your own network maybe?<br> </div>Isn't that the only way out right now? Getting a separate network? I know the problem is that it costs too much; but what else is there]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457181</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:52:16 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457132</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  koreyb <A HREF="/useremail/u/1137179"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>The key is where to go from here....<br> </div>Aside from network buildout as you mentioned, The CRTC will be having a public hearing on the issue (unless they remove the public hearing once again).<br><br>People have the opportunity to file again with the CRTC up until Feb, 2009 I think the CRTC Doc said.<br><br>So "where to go from here"... as an average Canadian sheep, I guess I will be looking more closely at the CRTC doc. CAIP will as well, Rocky will as well.<br><br>From there all issues in relation to this need to once again be submitted.<br><br>As JF once stated months ago, an awareness needs to be made. This time the awareness needs to reach out further than just the mediums used in this case. Takes money.<br><br>Again pre-made text will need to be made up for the masses of sheep.<br><br>....it all starts over again, but this time it includes all neutrality topics, effects on the small ISP, the people and so forth.<br><br>Round 2 [ding] [ding]]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457132</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:41:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457130</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1551629"><b>globus999</b></A> : I FRIGGIN TOLD YOU SO!!!<br><br>For ALL those that did not bother to take me seriously, I remind you of:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="/forum/remark,20882264?hilite=moronic+isps">Moronic ISPs!</A><br><br>NOW? NOW is TOO LATE!!<br> :mad:]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457130</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:41:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457124</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1404903"><b>DrModem</b></A> : Independent ISPs pool your resources and start building your own network maybe?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457124</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:40:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457116</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : I'm sure all internet savy folks are as dismayed at the CRTC's ruling as you and I.  However, sitting here steaming about their decision won't change a damned thing.  Nor do I expect complaining directly to them, the members of the CRTC, or anyone else in a position of some authority for that matter, will have any effect on the decision whatsoever.<br><br>We all know and have known for eons that they (the CRTC) are nothing but puppets of the "big boys" in the communications game, they dance to the tune played by the pipers of Ma Bell and Robbers when it comes to the eastern half of the country, and I assume Ma Bell and Shaw in the west.  The Canadian people and the small time players in the ISP, or other communications markets for that matter, mean absolutly zippo to them.  Whether they receive "tips" for their dancing is certainly unknown and undoubtably unprovable, but that's really a no-never-mind, what should be of concern to us is the totally assinine decisions they make.<br><br>As for these individuals sitting on the board and receiving their salaries from the pockets of the Canadian people as compensation for applying their vast knowledge of the subjects brought before them in a fair and equitable manner such as to be in the intrests of the Canadian people, well, forget it!  They'll take their salaries alright, but as for the rest, it'll be a balmy day in hell before we'll see a demonstration of vast knowledge of anything from this crowd let alone fair and equitable decisions in the intrests of the Canadian people. <br><br>The only way the big ISP's of this country will react to the situation at hand and change their policies would be through an action brought about by their customers that would negatively and substantially effect their bottom line.  Anything short of that would, in my humble opinion, be a waste of time and effort.<br><br>So, at the risk of sounding defeatest when by nature I'm really not, all I can say is "suck it up folks, 'cause it ain't gettin' any better from here on in".<br><br>  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457116</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:39:05 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457092</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  qweloo <A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  iconfat <A HREF="/useremail/u/1184750"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have filed my complaint to the CRTC and will be contacting my MP.<br><br>Its obvious the CRTC is corrupt and it should be investigated. </div>That's a very serious accusation you are making. It trust you have proof to back it up. I also note a number of threats of various acts in this and other threads. Tread carefully.  <br><br> <br> </div>While you may need proof in a court of law. This is the court of public opinion where perception is everything.<br>Any politician knows the difference.<br>And the perception in this court of public opinion is that the decision is not based on what is going on in real life.<br> </div>Absent proof in the court of public opinion, you can easily find yourself in a court of law.  Libel and slander are generally frowned upon.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457092</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:34:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457087</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1495387"><b>the cerberus</b></A> : What happens when you give a bunch of technical documents to a group of monkeys like the CRTC..... they throw the documents and feces back in your face.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457087</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:33:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457064</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1137179"><b>koreyb</b></A> : I'm not surprised by this.... In past dealings with the CRTC with my job, they have been bending over for big business over the small guy.<br><br>The key is where to go from here....<br><br>Years of legal battles or just start slowly building a new network outside of Bell as a wholesale ISP group effort.   I think that's about the only 2 options now.<br><br>Start sooner than later on either issue... as sitting back gives Bell longer to cause some REAL damage.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457064</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:30:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457054</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1453332"><b>codecx</b></A> : Saddened but not surprised.. I think we all just want Bell to get slapped hard.. They seem to get away with everything.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457054</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:28:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457040</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1530685"><b>mactalla</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by riojew04532 :</small><br><br>CAIP asked the CRTC if they were being treated unfairly, and the conclusion was no, because retail and wholesale both get shafted. Done.<br> </div>Incorrect.  CAIP asked the CRTC if Bell was wrong in changing the rules of their agreement.  CRTC said ... err, well, they changed it for everyone, so it's fair!  Completed sidestepped the issue at hand.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457040</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:26:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457032</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><b>jpabboud</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  jinNjuice <A HREF="/useremail/u/1445627"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>We need that guy who convinced McGuinty to create that ridiculous new driving law...<br> </div>He's busy bailing out GM and Ford. You know what's even more insulting, the two CEO's didn't bother flying their arses to Ontario in their private Jets, they had the MP's meet them in Detroit.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457032</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:24:56 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457015</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : And, should anybody not have read it, Michael Geist actually posted a very good article about today's ruling on his blog:<br><br> <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>While the CRTC's decision to permit Bell's throttling practices is disappointing in the short term - and seems to place Canada on a different track from the U.S. - the decision is not a total loss for net neutrality supporters as the Commission made a clear commitment to addressing the issue of net neutrality and network management in a formal proceeding in July 2009.  Indeed, it is important not to lose sight of how much has changed in the past year. <br><br>Just over one year, [he] wrote a column noting the need for greater ISP transparency in the wake of Rogers' admission that it engaged in traffic shaping.  At the time, net neutrality was viewed as a fringe issue in Canada without much political traction.  In the span of 13 months, there has been a major CRTC case, a private member's bill on net neutrality, a rally on Parliament Hill, the emergence of BitTorrent as distribution tool for broadcast content, a more vocal business community supporting net neutrality, and a gradual shift of this issue into the political mainstream.  In the United States, the change has been even more dramatic - an FCC ruling on the throttling activities, proposed legislation, the shift of net neutrality to wireless, and a President-elect who has been outspoken on the need to preserve net neutrality.<br><br>In other words, today's CRTC decision is not the final word on net neutrality in Canada, but rather the first word on it.  The Commission itself has opened the door to broader hearings on the issue next year, which may come alongside the new media hearings that also offer the opportunity to raise net neutrality concerns.  Moreover, if the Commission comes to the conclusion that these practices are consistent with current Canadian law, there is the likelihood of growing calls from within Parliament to change the law.<hr></blockquote>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457015</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:20:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457014</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1445627"><b>jinNjuice</b></A> : We need that guy who convinced McGuinty to create that ridiculous new driving law...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457014</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:20:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457008</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1534090"><b>NCRGuy</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Sempronius <A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  alphaz18 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br></div>But you need proof of evidence. <br> </div>A public inquiry can be called to investigate the CRTC and it's dealing.  An audit of the books.<br> </div>And who would call such an inquiry?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21457008</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:20:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456997</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/931617"><b>DrZEUS</b></A> : lol 1950]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456997</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:18:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456986</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DrZEUS <A HREF="/useremail/u/931617"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I wonder how many executives at the CRTC got blowjobs last night while sporting their new Rolex watches with free lifetime cell, home phone, internet, satellite stacked with unlimited features....all the while sipping pina coladas on an island getaway?<br> </div>LMAO and crying at the same time.  True.  How VERY true.<br><br>I think it was a privately hired jet, too, to get to the island.  It's disgusting any way you look at the big picture (but also very expected based on the CRTC's inability to actual rule on any new modern technologies past, say, 1950).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456986</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:16:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456974</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1559385"><b>k6richar</b></A> : Everyone, this is a call to arms. Contact your local media, let them know your displeasure. Complain to the CRTC, point out their contradictions and how disappointed you are. Small, vocal groups have been known to make major issues out of what are really non-issues. We have a large group here, we just need to be vocal to make this a major issue in the eyes of the Canadian public. You can complain quietly on this forum where everyone who reads it agrees with you or you can complain loudly to the people who don't even know what is happening to the internet they pay for.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456974</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:15:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456961</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : And if they're not with you, they're paid off! I guess now we'll have calls for a CRTC witch hunt because someone must have been paid off!<br><br>Please. If anyone said this stuff in the press without proof they would be facing a libel suit.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456961</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:13:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456952</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/931617"><b>DrZEUS</b></A> : I wonder how many executives at the CRTC got blowjobs last night while sporting their new Rolex watches with free lifetime cell, home phone, internet, satellite stacked with unlimited features....all the while sipping pina coladas on an island getaway?<br><br>nahhhhh that's called bribery and it would not be legal or ethical in the business world...so it cant be true.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456952</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:11:33 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456944</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  alphaz18 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br></div>But you need proof of evidence. <br> </div>A public inquiry can be called to investigate the CRTC and it's dealing.  An audit of the books.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456944</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:11:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456928</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  alphaz18 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>well. proof is right there. any informed individual would have made the decision to protect the interests of the people. Anyone offered x$ to vote another way will obviously vote for the money. its human greed. plain and simple. Therefore by proof by induction, crtc is corrupt. there. i have proved it. <br> </div>But you need proof of evidence. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456928</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:08:41 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456915</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><b>Abattoir</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by Anon Name :</small><br><br>SILENCE! I KEEL YOU!<br> </div>Sweet...a Jeff Dunham reference...  LOL]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456915</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:07:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456889</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1559385"><b>k6richar</b></A> : They could charge penalty fees, assuming they can prove MLPPP would be detrimental to the network. They cannot just throw jailtime out there. Assuming they don't pay the government to make laws against trivial things.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456889</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:02:44 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456865</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1293592"><b>cbp</b></A> : Regarding the MLPPP, wait until Bell changes their contracts and makes it illegal to use MLPPP or any throttling circumvention method.<br>- hefty penalty fees<br>- even jail.<br><br>Fun.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456865</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:57:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456852</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/929913"><b>Omr</b></A> : Rocky isn't in town, he is doing some sort of forum on believe it or not Net Neutrality, the irony of today's proceedings is quite depressing :( . He said he won't be able to make much comments today, so we'll hear from him later I suppose. <br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.ppforum.ca/en/events/details.asp?id=263&theme=all&year=u2008" >www.ppforum.ca/en/events/details&middot;&middot;&middot;ar=u2008</A><br><br>CRTC, what a let down really. Now Bell can do whatever they want so long a 30 day notice is given ... I think the government forgot the difference between a mutual contract and a mandate. So Mirko is typing away his new directives as we speak ... Laszlo will inform us through Facebook, now they can ban any and every protocol at will. What next newsgroups, Netflix, Skype really stupid CRTC didn't give guidelines to what they can and can't block, but rather a broad term of congestion. Also Bell's information showed no congestion, and I believe there were communications Bell and CRTC had off the record ... yes I'm speculating CAIP was left outside the door of the Boys club for example the delay.<br><br>Now folks we face a scenario of cat and mouse, MLPPP -- they'll eventually block this, to be honest I hate these games because no one wins. TSI, it's time to show leadership and come with a strategy for the bigger picture.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456852</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:56:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456846</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : ok. well. theres nothing legal we can do. its blatently obvious. they've tried so many legal venues and each and every time they get shoved under the carpet or just fall on deaf ears. due to bell's power. only thing left is semi-legal or para-legal activities such as rioting or something of the sort. that usually gets a few arrested but if the numbers are high enough, it WILL cause change..]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456846</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:56:15 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456839</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1324108"><b>r5a</b></A> : This is really disappointing. <br><br>I was thinking that they would rule that it was against wholesale customers but not their own, but they did both.<br><br>What can we do now? Seems like we're pretty fucked.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456839</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:54:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456824</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><b>qweloo</b></A> : Please dont insult the beavers <br>They are quite happy not being associated with that shitty bell company anymore.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456824</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:52:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456823</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : They've left us no choice - we must pool our money together and hire the services of Al Qaeda to blow up their DPI technology. :D<br><br>SILENCE! I KEEL YOU!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456823</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:51:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456816</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1595843"><b>Quakky</b></A> : Whoever that is saying "Oh well, MLPPP still works against the issue" or " thank god for TOMATO" is probably too naive to understand the bigger issue that people are worried about.<br><br>To all those people saying that...BRAVO..Want a freaking cookie or something? go enjoy your extra bought hardware, and lets hope for long.<br><br>but back to reality. We shouldn't have to buy new hardware to avoid something that shouldn't exist. The ruling today show how ignorant the CRTC is. Tax Payer's money down the freaking drain]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456816</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:50:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456812</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1559385"><b>k6richar</b></A> : Canada just got raped by one of its own national symbols (the beaver of course), i am sure there is some sort of irony in there.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456812</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:50:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456804</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1522812"><b>ShadPTR</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  chromiumdr <A HREF="/useremail/u/1505364"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Clipped from &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/BACKGRND/Brochures/B49903.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/BACKGRND/Broc&middot;&middot;&middot;9903.htm</A><br><br><blockquote><br>The CRTC<br>What concerns you concerns us<br><br>Since the discovery of electromagnetism and the development of its applications leading to the inventions of radio, television and telecommunications, people around the world have been concerned about how best to regulate these resources.<br><br>In Canada, we quickly recognized that radio, television and telecommunications should serve the public interest. Our challenge was to create a communications infrastructure to serve a small population distributed over a large territory. We met this challenge, largely due to our ingenuity and our willingness to cooperate with others. Today, our communications infrastructure is considered a model to be emulated. This expertise is also found in Canadian policies and regulations on Broadcasting and Telecommunications. There again, we are considered to be a model.<br><br>More precisely, observers wonder how the CRTC manages to supervise and regulate Canadian broadcasting and telecommunications while remaining independent in balancing and serving both public and private sector interests.<br><br>If Canada has become a recognised leader in the information and knowledge-based society, it is thanks to you.<br><br>Your ideas, your opinions and your comments help us update our policies and procedures and evaluate the performance of the television, radio, cable distribution and telecommunications carriers that we regulate and supervise.<br><br>Since what concerns you, concerns the CRTC, here is some information on how to express your opinion, file a complaint or obtain information.<br><br></blockquote><br><br>That echo you hear? The hollowness of this statement.<br> </div>If I wasn't so upset, speechless, and ashamed to be part of this country, I would be laughing my ass off at how ignorant and pompous this CRTC statement is.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456804</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:49:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456801</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : well. proof is right there. any informed individual would have made the decision to protect the interests of the people. Anyone offered x$ to vote another way will obviously vote for the money. its human greed. plain and simple. Therefore by proof by induction, crtc is corrupt. there. i have proved it. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456801</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:49:31 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456777</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1505364"><b>chromiumdr</b></A> : Clipped from &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/BACKGRND/Brochures/B49903.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/BACKGRND/Broc&middot;&middot;&middot;9903.htm</A><br><br><blockquote><br>The CRTC<br>What concerns you concerns us<br><br>Since the discovery of electromagnetism and the development of its applications leading to the inventions of radio, television and telecommunications, people around the world have been concerned about how best to regulate these resources.<br><br>In Canada, we quickly recognized that radio, television and telecommunications should serve the public interest. Our challenge was to create a communications infrastructure to serve a small population distributed over a large territory. We met this challenge, largely due to our ingenuity and our willingness to cooperate with others. Today, our communications infrastructure is considered a model to be emulated. This expertise is also found in Canadian policies and regulations on Broadcasting and Telecommunications. There again, we are considered to be a model.<br><br>More precisely, observers wonder how the CRTC manages to supervise and regulate Canadian broadcasting and telecommunications while remaining independent in balancing and serving both public and private sector interests.<br><br>If Canada has become a recognised leader in the information and knowledge-based society, it is thanks to you.<br><br>Your ideas, your opinions and your comments help us update our policies and procedures and evaluate the performance of the television, radio, cable distribution and telecommunications carriers that we regulate and supervise.<br><br>Since what concerns you, concerns the CRTC, here is some information on how to express your opinion, file a complaint or obtain information.<br><br></blockquote><br><br>That echo you hear? The hollowness of this statement.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456777</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:46:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456769</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Even with a wholesale tariff, the network itself is still privately owned and subject to the wishes of Bell.<br><br>Not directed a mlerner, but if I hear someone tell me how they/TSI have paid for "5mbps dedicated" I'll explode. You're paying for xMbps of sync with no guarantee on throughput, packet loss or latency. TSI is also paying for aggregation links to collect their traffic, they're not paying for 7Gigs of network-wide transport to fill them 100% of the time.<br><br>I am interested to see how this plays out in the courts. I expect someone will try to file a free speech case until the judiciary points them to a 1st year law text that the charter doesn't apply to private businesses, and there is not human rights complaint b/c there is no discrimination based on a recognised class of persons (ethnic, religious, sexual orientation, etc.).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456769</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:44:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456768</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/675026"><b>BliZZardX</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  k6richar <A HREF="/useremail/u/1559385"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I personally think it is time for the CAIP to band together and get private investors and start laying fiber. High upfront costs but the payback from this long term investment would be huge and practically guaranteed.</div>This is the perfect opportunity to initiate some FTTH development in Canada]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456768</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:44:52 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456757</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : what the F? Screw the CRTC.<br><br>Also, thank god for Tomato.. here's hoping Bell doesn't find a way around that.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456757</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:42:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456740</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><b>jpabboud</b></A> : <br>TSI should partner with YAK to use new spectrum they've acquired and launch a wireless service jointly :P<br><br>I know YAK is reselling TSI so they're already working together.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456740</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:39:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456737</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by riojew04532 :</small><br><br> and yes, the GAS service runs on their network. It might be unpleasant, but Bell can do what it wants on its private network to a great extent.<br> </div>But the prolem with that is having a wholesale tariff applied to the network, the tariff implies that the network is not private and Bell should not be allowed to manage the network but the CRTC is not thinking that way. Also don't forget Teksavvy is PAYING for that access and every termination line to the GAS network.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456737</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:39:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456735</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1559385"><b>k6richar</b></A> : I personally think it is time for the CAIP to band together and get private investors and start laying fiber. High upfront costs but the payback from this long term investment would be huge and practically guaranteed.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456735</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:39:32 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456710</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1588482"><b>45578933</b></A> : You know something is in the works.  Rocky hasn't been on DSLR for over 2hrs and I bet most of that time he has spent on the phone.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456710</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:36:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456706</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><b>qweloo</b></A> : You can have a general plan but the devil is in the details and what is said in the actual decision to justify it ....]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456706</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:34:39 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456703</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1401020"><b>Bell_Abused</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  fatness <A HREF="/useremail/u/243195"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  jpabboud <A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I'm curious to hear what TSI's plans are going to be now...<br> </div>I get the feeling, based only on what I've read in this forum, that they've had their next moves planned for awhile. When they can speak about them publicly I'm sure they will; they're usually pretty forthright whenever they can be. <br> </div>Yup, there has been some very subtle talk of this.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456703</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:34:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456701</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by riojew04532 :</small><br><br>Well, not the outcome I had hoped for (I was hoping for application-neutral throttling because I though that was a reasonable compromise) but not some buy off.<br><br>CAIP asked the CRTC if they were being treated unfairly, and the conclusion was no, because retail and wholesale both get shafted. Done. Nobody got a briefcase of cash for this, they just interpreted the contracts and the law and said there is no violation of the tariff, which specifies that Bell is entitled to manage its network... and yes, the GAS service runs on their network. It might be unpleasant, but Bell can do what it wants on its private network to a great extent.<br> </div>I'm as pissed as everyone else, but this is a good post.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456701</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:34:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456692</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1588482"><b>45578933</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  fatness <A HREF="/useremail/u/243195"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  jpabboud <A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I'm curious to hear what TSI's plans are going to be now...<br> </div>I get the feeling, based only on what I've read in this forum, that they've had their next moves planned for awhile. When they can speak about them publicly I'm sure they will; they're usually pretty forthright whenever they can be. <br> </div>I hear fatness is their secert weapon. he is going to mod bell to death.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456692</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:32:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456689</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/243195"><b>fatness</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  jpabboud <A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I'm curious to hear what TSI's plans are going to be now...<br> </div>I get the feeling, based only on what I've read in this forum, that they've had their next moves planned for awhile. When they can speak about them publicly I'm sure they will; they're usually pretty forthright whenever they can be. <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1370721~74256f2b8b4b5b881ae82d211fa2c6ad/couch.jpg">goodbye dad</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456689</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:31:56 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456680</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Well, not the outcome I had hoped for (I was hoping for application-neutral throttling because I though that was a reasonable compromise) but not some buy off.<br><br>CAIP asked the CRTC if they were being treated unfairly, and the conclusion was no, because retail and wholesale both get shafted. Done. Nobody got a briefcase of cash for this, they just interpreted the contracts and the law and said there is no violation of the tariff, which specifies that Bell is entitled to manage its network... and yes, the GAS service runs on their network. It might be unpleasant, but Bell can do what it wants on its private network to a great extent.<br><br>The Neutrality concerns will be dealt with later, and this is no surprise, the CRTC said that neutrality was beyond the scope of this complaint. <br><br>And before I hear people talk about how this makes them ashamed of their country, the US doesn't even have a competitive wholesale DSL market because the courts there determined that price-controlled wholesale DSL access wasn't important. So thank Canada for establishing price-controlled wholesale DSL.<br>Perhaps people should be more ashamed of our human rights record (Maher Arar? Somalia? Tasers?), our shameless PM and the number of children who live in poverty in this country.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456680</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:31:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456676</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1588482"><b>45578933</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  newSymp <A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>a class auction law suit should of happened the same day the CRTC filling came to, thus showing that people care more and are willing to take it further.<br> </div>How do you know this isn't already happening.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456676</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:30:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456672</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1367174"><b>melak</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  jpabboud <A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  The Flash <A HREF="/useremail/u/706116"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>thank God for the MLPPP solution.  :)<br><br>damn you CRTC<br> </div>Until Bell patches the hole :P<br> </div>I must admit, this has been my fear, that bell has been waiting to address the mlppp issue until after they won as to not waste their effort.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456672</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:30:27 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456669</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : Everyone has had months to think about the situation. When running a business, contingency planning is everyday occurance.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456669</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:30:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456668</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/779269"><b>Manatrite</b></A> : well, time to ditch bell's product!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456668</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:30:08 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456667</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><b>jpabboud</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  qweloo <A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Maybe leave them time to think about options ... its not even 24 hours.<br> </div>I'm sure they already have a plan in place.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456667</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:30:02 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456665</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><b>newSymp</b></A> : a class auction law suit should of happened the same day the CRTC filling came to, thus showing that people care more and are willing to take it further.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456665</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:29:48 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456662</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><b>jpabboud</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  The Flash <A HREF="/useremail/u/706116"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>thank God for the MLPPP solution.  :)<br><br>damn you CRTC<br> </div>Until Bell patches the hole :P]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456662</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:28:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456654</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><b>qweloo</b></A> : Maybe leave them time to think about options ... its not even 24 hours.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456654</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:28:02 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456651</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.backbonemag.com/Magazine/E_Trends_11170801.asp" >www.backbonemag.com/Magazine/E_T&middot;&middot;&middot;0801.asp</A><br><br>Canada is in danger of turning into an industrial backwater if something isn&#146;t done soon to raise the country&#146;s sagging productivity rate and its ability to innovate and nurture new homegrown technology businesses, according to Terry Matthews, a serial entrepreneur and one of Canada&#146;s leading technology lights. With notable successes like Mitel Networks and Newbridge Networks to his credit, Matthews&#146; track record gives weight to his opinion. And his opinion is not uplifting.<br><br>&#147;Things are pretty bad. I haven&#146;t felt quite as negative before about the Canadian environment as I do right now.&#148; <br><br>--- Funny thing about catastrophes in general - it only takes one tiny thing to avert or ensure that a disaster occurs. This decision by the CRTC is just another small link in this chain of events. You decide whether it enables or averts coming disaster.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456651</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:27:46 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456649</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/706116"><b>The Flash</b></A> : thank God for the MLPPP solution.  :)<br><br>damn you CRTC]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456649</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:27:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456641</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><b>jpabboud</b></A> : I'm curious to hear what TSI's plans are going to be now...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456641</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:26:25 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456640</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1559385"><b>k6richar</b></A> : Soon enough bell will block any internet based phone system, any online video store or television, and soon enough competitors websites.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456640</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:26:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456609</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1559385"><b>k6richar</b></A> : Step 1: (CAIP)<br>Appeal this ruling, obvious contradictions have been pointed out already, I am sure the lawyers going through the document will find many more.<br><br>Step 2: (CAIP)<br>File lawsuit based on anti-competitive nature of the throttling, which was not addressed by the CRTC.<br><br>Step 3: (Consumers)<br>Class action lawsuit(s).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456609</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:22:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456605</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1145919"><b>Candoo3</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  HiVolt <A HREF="/useremail/u/273051"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Now we just wait for the day that they will throttle P2P 24/7, and other applications that they feel they don't like. </div>BellER is probably already typing up the notice to send out, so that they can give their *proper* 30 day notice.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456605</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:22:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456602</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1521952"><b>QCTLG</b></A> : It is my opinion that this is "The saddest day of Internet anywhere on this planet"<br><br>Let's face it Corruption is here and it will NEVER go away!<br><br>George Carlin said it best"<br>It's who fuks who first!<br><br>Business is all about relationship.<br>It is clear as day who has the better relationship.<br>Logic has no relevance in business decisions!<br><br>What a fuken sad day and I'm embarrassed that this CRAP has happened in Canada. One of the greatest country's to live in.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456602</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:22:07 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456597</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><b>newSymp</b></A> : this is Canada for you.<br>INSTEAD of going forward . we seems to be going backwards in the Tech era.<br><br>the CRTC (government controlled) doesn't care what the average person wants but what the Corporation wants.<br><br>Even if the people took wireless carriers tot he crtc over SAF fee's the CRTC would vote in favour of them.<br><br>its how they work and history has proven this over and over again.<br><br>So much for the GOVERNMENT BEING FOR THE PEOPLE<br><br>the government is only for the Corporations.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456597</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:21:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456582</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/933870"><b>shepd</b></A> : Big surprise.  Just like in the USA, all it takes in Canada to get what you want is money.  I wonder how far does that go?  How much do I have to pay the Canadian government to force the emmigration of all Bell execs?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456582</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:18:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456562</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/273051"><b>HiVolt</b></A> : We got screwed. CRTC is a f'n joke.<br><br>Now we just wait for the day that they will throttle P2P 24/7, and other applications that they feel they don't like.<br><br>Sad day for Internet users in Canada.<br><small>--<br>GO LEAFS GO!</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456562</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:15:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456552</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1523173"><b>pnjunction</b></A> : What angers me the most is the precedent this has set:  Bell can now throttle ANY type of traffic (as long as they do it to their own customers as well) and pull out the excuse of 'network congestion'.<br><br>This not only hurts consumers and innovation but is an international embarrassment for Canada.  With the FCC having recently ruled against throttling, our telecom regulation is officially more corrupt (or inept) than our neighbours to the south, to say nothing of our pathetic place in the world.<br><br>The Internet is a system designed to allow the free flow of information, and the CRTC has just ruled that Bell can mess with that flow as long as they ALSO lag behind on upgrading their infrastructure.  <br><br>Bell has been awarded for their incompetence and greed.  Disgusting.  I'm embarrassed for my country right now. :(]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456552</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:13:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456535</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><b>qweloo</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  twizlar <A HREF="/useremail/u/919724"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Not only that, it is a proven fact that the specific DPI technology Bell uses DOES examine packet content in order to filter it properly. If it didn't, the technology would not work the way it does.<br> </div>Exactly .... the decision does not fit anything that is going on in real life.<br><br>I highly doubt anybody on that commission actually uses the internet except for email and browsing. P2P ? none of them ever touched that or can think of a use for it.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456535</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:11:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456534</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><b>Abattoir</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Unfortunately, if you make accusations or threats on the internet, you have the same burden of proof as anywhere else. It's your choice. The excuse "Well, I didn't mean it..." hold no grace before a court. <br> </div>True, but the threshold of required proof is much lower.  If you could be reasonably expected to hold the opinion, it is not considered libel.  Libel only applies if you are  completely  making up stuff in order to cause harm or damages.  I wouldn't worry about it in this context.<br><br>Disclosure: IANAL]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456534</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:11:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456528</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1440205"><b>Taylortbb</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  mr_hexen <A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  twizlar <A HREF="/useremail/u/919724"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>I'd be much more worried about this section of the ruling.<br>4.<br>&#9;Bell Canada submitted that its DPI technology examines the packet headers, not the contents, of communication exchanges. Bell Canada further submitted that its DPI equipment does not retain the information reviewed in the packet headers and that the content itself is never reviewed, analysed, or stored as part of the company's traffic-shaping measures. <b>Bell Canada, as well as any third party or vendor contracting with Bell Canada, does not access individual user information such as the particular user, IP address, account, or geographic location.</b> Therefore, contrary to suggestions made by certain parties, Bell Canada does not disclose such user information to any third party for any purpose.<br><br>and<br><br>66.<br>&#9;The Commission notes that paragraph 7(i) of the Act states that an objective of Canada's telecommunications policy is "to contribute to the protection of the privacy of persons" and that this objective does not by itself impose an enforceable obligation on Bell Canada. The Commission notes that Bell Canada is prohibited, pursuant to its Terms of Service, from disclosing confidential customer information, except in certain circumstances. <b>The Commission notes that the DPI technology used by Bell Canada examines the header information of packets, which includes source and destination IP address information</b>, in order to carry out traffic shaping. There is no allegation by any party nor any evidence on the record of this proceeding that any of the examined header information is collected or disclosed by Bell Canada or used by Bell Canada for any purpose other than traffic shaping. No parties alleged that Bell Canada has collected, retained, or disclosed customer information in its ongoing application of its traffic-shaping measures. <br> </div>(see bolded items).<br><br>holy contradiction batman.<br> </div>That is the most ridiculous shit I have ever seen. It appears the CRTC doesn't understand this issue in the slightest. And they bought every last piece of obvious Bell bullshit.<br><br>Rocky, I'm behind whatever your plans are to respond to this. Increase prices if you need to, anything that will end this bullshit.<br><small>--<br>Taylor Byrnes<br>www.taylorbyrnes.org</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456528</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:10:04 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456516</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  qweloo <A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  iconfat <A HREF="/useremail/u/1184750"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have filed my complaint to the CRTC and will be contacting my MP.<br><br>Its obvious the CRTC is corrupt and it should be investigated. </div>That's a very serious accusation you are making. It trust you have proof to back it up. I also note a number of threats of various acts in this and other threads. Tread carefully.  <br><br> <br> </div>While you may need proof in a court of law. This is the court of public opinion where perception is everything.<br>Any politician knows the difference.<br>And the perception in this court of public opinion is that the decision is not based on what is going on in real life.<br> </div>Unfortunately, if you make accusations or threats on the internet, you have the same burden of proof as anywhere else. It's your choice. The excuse "Well, I didn't mean it..." hold no grace before a court. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456516</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:08:44 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456515</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1597713"><b>Philix</b></A> : I'm still waiting for Bell and the Government to join their evil forces and start requiring an internet license to get service.. The government is hungry enough for the cash to do it, and Bell is well.... Bell.. so they'd just do it because it's a dumb idea.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456515</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:08:26 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456513</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><b>newSymp</b></A> : they are not ALL bell resellers, <br><br>they only get the lines from bell, but Indie ISP most delivery their own equipment and bandwidth making them Indepedent in that aspect by not reselling bells bandwidth.<br><br>are we screwed ? Yes<br><br>as you can see the CRTC does not care about the general public but the money that is given only]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456513</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:08:08 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456498</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><b>newSymp</b></A> : Actually in reality they are dumb.<br><br>the CAIP was a joint venture of Indie ISP's while Bell is one ISP.<br><br>Instead of realizing that throttling down others traffic etc etc make competition bad for the market place, they rule in favour of Bell.<br><br>How can one company have so much power over the rest?<br><br>$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ speaks that is the issue at hand. and the CRTC decision was not based on anything educated but what bell might of told them]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456498</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:06:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456490</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><b>Abattoir</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  qweloo <A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Why discuss any larger issues when this kind of logic is going to be applied ?<br><br>Another PR stunt to justify another Fubar decision like today ?<br></div>Precisely.  What's the point of any real discussion on our part, when it's obvious that the CRTC does not care about consumers at all?  Even when Bell breaks the rules, and then lies about it after denying it, they still get nothing at all.  Not even a slap on the wrist.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456490</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:04:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456487</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> :  <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>I did the exact same thing. I also specified the CRTC/CAIP thing when I did cancel.<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>And like Bell Canada cares?  They're losing customers hand-over-fist who are fleeing to Rogers and other ISPs.  Unfortunately, all DSL providers are Bell Resellers so we get screwed there.<br><br>Like I mentioned before, I found it amusing that Bell Canada's own CSRs are claiming that a 60GB cap will be in place for ALL  internet providers in the new year.  Bell will tell you anything so it's no wonder the CRTC found in their favour.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456487</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:04:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456479</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1528174"><b>NeoStylez</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Candoo3 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1145919"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  newSymp <A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>this is how dumb the CRTC is, that they can't see what the problem is lol<br> </div>They aren't dumb, that is the main problem. For the CRTC to rule this way, it makes it easy to suspect that there are outside *influences* that contributed to the decision. Rationality and logic would have swayed the ruling in CAIP's favour.<br> </div>i agree with this candoo]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456479</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:03:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456477</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><b>qweloo</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Abattoir <A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Flawed, flawed analysis.  The holes in their logic are large enough to drive trucks through.  It looks like it was dictated verbatim by Bell.  I wonder if the CRTC actually had the chance to edit the copy provided by Bell, or did they just rubber-stamp it?  This incestuous relationship between the big telcos and the CRTC needs to be seriously investigated and fixed.<br><br>They plan to BEGIN the larger issue of throttling/NN in July 2009?  While I'm sure it's lightning speed compared to the regular glacial pace of the CRTC, they need to realize that it's still a snail's pace.<br><br>Seriously, telecom is evolving a helluva lot faster than the CRTC can seem to keep up.<br> </div>Why discuss any larger issues when this kind of logic is going to be applied ?<br><br>Another PR stunt to justify another Fubar decision like today ?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456477</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:02:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456472</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1145919"><b>Candoo3</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  newSymp <A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>this is how dumb the CRTC is, that they can't see what the problem is lol<br> </div>They aren't dumb, that is the main problem. For the CRTC to rule this way, it makes it easy to suspect that there are outside *influences* that contributed to the decision. Rationality and logic would have swayed the ruling in CAIP's favour.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456472</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:02:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456469</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><b>mr_hexen</b></A> : time to appeal to greater powers i guess.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456469</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:02:11 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456462</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/919724"><b>twizlar</b></A> : Not only that, it is a proven fact that the specific DPI technology Bell uses DOES examine packet content in order to filter it properly. If it didn't, the technology would not work the way it does.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.broadlinenetworks.com">Broadline Networks Inc.</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456462</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:00:52 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456445</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1540527"><b>Abattoir</b></A> : Flawed, flawed analysis.  The holes in their logic are large enough to drive trucks through.  It looks like it was dictated verbatim by Bell.  I wonder if the CRTC actually had the chance to edit the copy provided by Bell, or did they just rubber-stamp it?  This incestuous relationship between the big telcos and the CRTC needs to be seriously investigated and fixed.<br><br>They plan to BEGIN the larger issue of throttling/NN in July 2009?  While I'm sure it's lightning speed compared to the regular glacial pace of the CRTC, they need to realize that it's still a snail's pace.<br><br>Seriously, telecom is evolving a helluva lot faster than the CRTC can seem to keep up.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456445</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:58:08 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456443</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><b>mr_hexen</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  twizlar <A HREF="/useremail/u/919724"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I'd be much more worried about this section of the ruling.<br>4.<br>&#9;Bell Canada submitted that its DPI technology examines the packet headers, not the contents, of communication exchanges. Bell Canada further submitted that its DPI equipment does not retain the information reviewed in the packet headers and that the content itself is never reviewed, analysed, or stored as part of the company's traffic-shaping measures. <b>Bell Canada, as well as any third party or vendor contracting with Bell Canada, does not access individual user information such as the particular user, IP address, account, or geographic location.</b> Therefore, contrary to suggestions made by certain parties, Bell Canada does not disclose such user information to any third party for any purpose.<br><br>and<br><br>66.<br>&#9;The Commission notes that paragraph 7(i) of the Act states that an objective of Canada's telecommunications policy is "to contribute to the protection of the privacy of persons" and that this objective does not by itself impose an enforceable obligation on Bell Canada. The Commission notes that Bell Canada is prohibited, pursuant to its Terms of Service, from disclosing confidential customer information, except in certain circumstances. <b>The Commission notes that the DPI technology used by Bell Canada examines the header information of packets, which includes source and destination IP address information</b>, in order to carry out traffic shaping. There is no allegation by any party nor any evidence on the record of this proceeding that any of the examined header information is collected or disclosed by Bell Canada or used by Bell Canada for any purpose other than traffic shaping. No parties alleged that Bell Canada has collected, retained, or disclosed customer information in its ongoing application of its traffic-shaping measures. <br> </div>(see bolded items).<br><br>holy contradiction batman.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456443</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:58:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456425</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/895655"><b>newSymp</b></A> : this is how dumb the CRTC is, that they can't see what the problem is lol<br><br>how to the pathetic people that are put to control things like this <br><br>i wonder how much MONEY bell gave ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456425</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:55:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456406</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1588482"><b>45578933</b></A> : Wow the postings slowed now.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456406</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:52:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456400</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1210050"><b>Jethro86</b></A> : He's being throttled... it's all legal. CRTC says so.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456400</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:51:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456392</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1528174"><b>NeoStylez</b></A> : He should be allowed to voice his opinion. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456392</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:50:08 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456380</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427767"><b>TSI Gabe</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Jman99 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1454856"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Why is JFMezei being blocked from this discussion?<br> </div>I was about to say the same thing.<br><small>--<br>TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456380</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:48:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456379</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/919724"><b>twizlar</b></A> : I'd be much more worried about this section of the ruling.<br>4.<br>&#9;Bell Canada submitted that its DPI technology examines the packet headers, not the contents, of communication exchanges. Bell Canada further submitted that its DPI equipment does not retain the information reviewed in the packet headers and that the content itself is never reviewed, analysed, or stored as part of the company's traffic-shaping measures. Bell Canada, as well as any third party or vendor contracting with Bell Canada, does not access individual user information such as the particular user, IP address, account, or geographic location. Therefore, contrary to suggestions made by certain parties, Bell Canada does not disclose such user information to any third party for any purpose.<br><br>and<br><br>66.<br>&#9;The Commission notes that paragraph 7(i) of the Act states that an objective of Canada's telecommunications policy is "to contribute to the protection of the privacy of persons" and that this objective does not by itself impose an enforceable obligation on Bell Canada. The Commission notes that Bell Canada is prohibited, pursuant to its Terms of Service, from disclosing confidential customer information, except in certain circumstances. The Commission notes that the DPI technology used by Bell Canada examines the header information of packets, which includes source and destination IP address information, in order to carry out traffic shaping. There is no allegation by any party nor any evidence on the record of this proceeding that any of the examined header information is collected or disclosed by Bell Canada or used by Bell Canada for any purpose other than traffic shaping. No parties alleged that Bell Canada has collected, retained, or disclosed customer information in its ongoing application of its traffic-shaping measures. <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.broadlinenetworks.com">Broadline Networks Inc.</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456379</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:48:44 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456377</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1454856"><b>Jman99</b></A> : Why is JFMezei being blocked from this discussion?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456377</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:48:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456373</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><b>qweloo</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  iconfat <A HREF="/useremail/u/1184750"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have filed my complaint to the CRTC and will be contacting my MP.<br><br>Its obvious the CRTC is corrupt and it should be investigated. </div>That's a very serious accusation you are making. It trust you have proof to back it up. I also note a number of threats of various acts in this and other threads. Tread carefully.  <br><br> <br> </div>While you may need proof in a court of law. This is the court of public opinion where perception is everything.<br>Any politician knows the difference.<br>And the perception in this court of public opinion is that the decision is not based on what is going on in real life.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456373</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:47:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456371</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1542094"><b>Vomio</b></A> : Well thanks to the CRTC puppets it looks like Canadians will have to put up with a subset of the Internet.  This will obviously set a precedent for other companies to manipulate communications throughout Canada. <br><br>I'm truly disgusted by this ruling and have to question whether the CRTC has any value to Canadians at all, with their slow response times and lack of understanding of the issues.  The CRTC is an unresponsive protectionist organization not serving Canadians, but rather the shareholders of the old media. <br><br>I suppose any legal action against Bell is going to take 2 to 3 years.  Bell has deep pockets and the judges are probably owned too.<br><br>Welcome to the new Dark Age where Canada becomes a technological back water, just managing to survive in the world by selling off our natural resources until they're gone.<br><br>Vomio]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456371</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:47:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456363</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : How about another visit to Ottawa? <br><br>Maybe CAIP should create a charity for NN cause, to pay for really expensive lawyers, and to fill some pockets]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456363</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:45:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456362</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1543318"><b>phosphor</b></A> : No matter how you slice it the CRTC went wrong on this one, after all the explicit purpose of a government is to act for the people, and this ruling definitely does does not help the people of Canada.  <br><br>Or as some great terrorists once said:<br><br>"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. &#151; That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, &#151; That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456362</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:45:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456360</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17642" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17642</A><br><br>Comments by CAIP:<br><br>"&#147;CAIP is very disappointed with the Decision. Canadians in general should be disappointed,&#148; CAIP chairman Tom Copeland told p2pnet.<br><br>&#147;This Decision is a license for carriers to continue to interfere with the consumer&#146;s use of the Internet.  While the Commission has now, by way of the Decision, initiated a public proceeding on &#145;Net Neutrality, it will be 2010 before Canada takes an official stand on the matter.<br><br>&#147;The telecommunication regulator of our largest trading partner of data and goods has come out in favour of Net Neutrality as has the President Elect of the USA. Canadians need political leadership on this issue sooner rather than later.<br><br>&#147;Our standing in the broadband world is slipping deeper into obscurity each day.&#148;"<br><br>continued...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456360</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:45:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456355</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  fatness <A HREF="/useremail/u/243195"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br> I also note a number of threats of various acts in this and other threads. Tread carefully. <br> </div>There's a difference between people venting and actual threats. <br><br>Use the hey mod button if you think something crosses the line. Thanks.<br> </div>Good point. There are and will be appropriate ways to respond to the CRTC decision. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456355</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:44:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456351</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Robrr <A HREF="/useremail/u/1545973"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Here is the contact info for the CRTC cant find an email but got a phone number :D<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/whoweare.htm#s1" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/whoweare.htm#s1</A><br> </div><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#000000 nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/21456351?c=1371559&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyMTQ1MzUyNS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="14716 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=478 HEIGHT=50 SRC="/r0/download/1371559~02e648c5f4c99a8941b8a7cbb8d6b79e/CRTC.JPG"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456351</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:43:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456341</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/243195"><b>fatness</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DKS <A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br> I also note a number of threats of various acts in this and other threads. Tread carefully. <br> </div>There's a difference between people venting and actual threats. <br><br>Use the hey mod button if you think something crosses the line. Thanks.<br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1370721~74256f2b8b4b5b881ae82d211fa2c6ad/couch.jpg">goodbye dad</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456341</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:43:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456331</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1492224"><b>qweloo</b></A> : What a bunch of scripted Bullshit .... This where our taxes are going.<br><br>I wish I had another Bell account to cancel.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456331</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:40:57 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456322</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/350435"><b>DKS</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  iconfat <A HREF="/useremail/u/1184750"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have filed my complaint to the CRTC and will be contacting my MP.<br><br>Its obvious the CRTC is corrupt and it should be investigated. </div>That's a very serious accusation you are making. It trust you have proof to back it up. I also note a number of threats of various acts in this and other threads. Tread carefully.  <br><br><div class="bquote">Also, the media should be notified of our disgust.<br> </div>That is a reasonable idea. <br><small>--<br>Need-based health care not greed-based health care.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456322</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:39:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456320</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1467109"><b>sil</b></A> : does this set any precedence if CAIP were to take this to the courts as a contract violation?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456320</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:38:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456319</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  iconfat <A HREF="/useremail/u/1184750"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I have filed my complaint to the CRTC and will be contacting my MP.<br><br>Its obvious the CRTC is corrupt and it should be investigated.  <br><br>Also, the media should be notified of our disgust.<br> </div>I agree.  They are corrupt.  They've been bought out by Bell.  We've lost our freedom on the Internet.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456319</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:38:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456312</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1545973"><b>Robrr</b></A> : Here is the contact info for the CRTC cant find an email but got a phone number :D<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/whoweare.htm#s1" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/about/whoweare.htm#s1</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456312</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:36:16 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456309</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1184750"><b>iconfat</b></A> : Deleted.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456309</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:35:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456307</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  dataiv <A HREF="/useremail/u/591537"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>CRTC denies Internet 'traffic shaping' complaint<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081120.wcrtc1120/BNStory/Technology/home" >www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/&middot;&middot;&middot;ogy/home</A><br> </div><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#000000 nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/21456307?c=1371556&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyMTQ1MzUyNS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="25643 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=563 HEIGHT=65 SRC="/r0/download/1371556~c811b8a0156ec76e35a092506babce58/Globe.JPG"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456307</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:35:31 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456306</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/843138"><b>Matt</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  TSI Gabe <A HREF="/useremail/u/1427767"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><blockquote><br>&#147;The CAIP complaint is really only the tip of the iceberg,&#148; Mr. von Finckenstein told a telecom conference in June. &#147;Sooner or later - <strong>hopefully later</strong> - this is going to evolve into a major consultation ... It seems to be inevitable.&#148;<br></blockquote><br> </div>That says to me he is hoping to avoid the discussion until he is out of office? What a jackass.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456306</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:35:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456303</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427767"><b>TSI Gabe</b></A> : <blockquote><br>&#147;The CAIP complaint is really only the tip of the iceberg,&#148; Mr. von Finckenstein told a telecom conference in June. &#147;Sooner or later - <strong>hopefully later</strong> - this is going to evolve into a major consultation ... It seems to be inevitable.&#148;<br></blockquote>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456303</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:34:44 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456302</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509988"><b>j3richo</b></A> : everybody needs to email every single member of the CRTC, flood their inboxes with complaints]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456302</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:34:28 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456294</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1509988"><b>j3richo</b></A> : this is unbelievable, these idiots ignored every piece of evidence presented and just said "well as long as Bell is also doing it to their own customers it's ok!" then they say oh but next time Bell must give 30 days notice, THEY WERE ALREADY SUPPOSED TO DO THAT YOU IDIOTS AND YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456294</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:32:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456287</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1107049"><b>oxymoron69</b></A> : "Assistants or not, I am sure if his email box is flooded with nasty messages that it will make the news."<br><br>Yeah, Chronoss hasn't been through here yet... ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456287</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:31:47 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456285</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/591537"><b>dataiv</b></A> : CRTC denies Internet 'traffic shaping' complaint<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081120.wcrtc1120/BNStory/Technology/home" >www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/&middot;&middot;&middot;ogy/home</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456285</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:31:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456280</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1545973"><b>Robrr</b></A> : Assistants or not, I am sure if his email box is flooded with nasty messages that it will make the news.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456280</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:29:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456277</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Candoo3 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1145919"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  mr_hexen <A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>so let me get this straight... CRTC says Online Video content leads to network congestion, which allows Bell to throttle P2P. Then Bell opens an UNTHROTTLED online video store. COME ON.<br>Keep diggin' CRTC, keep diggin'<br> </div>You were reading my thoughts exactly. And they say, there is NO discrimination.  :huh: <br> </div>And this is the real tear jerker....<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#000000 nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/21456277?c=1371553&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyMTQ1MzUyNS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="30103 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=460 HEIGHT=94 SRC="/r0/download/1371553~e0a0057d47c0fdb9eb1fbd11133877ee/BEll.JPG"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456277</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:29:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456274</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1153243"><b>BlueX</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  jpabboud <A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>If Videotron changes that, I'll keep checking for alternatives and support the companies that are willing to provide an unfiltered Internet. <br> </div>Kudos. If the CRTC cannot do its job,  it is up to the consumers to keep on purchasing Bell stuff (and therefore agree to their practices), or boycott.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456274</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:29:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456271</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1107049"><b>oxymoron69</b></A> : "Speaking of which, anyone got the email address for Konrad von Finckenstein? I want to let him know how much this decision is going to affect us."<br><br>You just know fucks like that don't read email, right??<br>I bet he's got at least an assistant or 2 that handle all official communications for him. <br>More than likely, stupid Konrad is like ol Ted Stevens from Alaska and bell drove a few truckloads of $$$$$$$$$$ to his and his best buddies houses to make sure that their internets get to move through the series of tubes easier. <br><br>The only thing that gets these criminals attention is cash. <br>And until WE the people have more assets than Bell, nobody will give a flying fuck. <br><br>30K/s up and 30K/s down... the future of internet in canada!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456271</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:28:32 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456264</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1300816"><b>jpabboud</b></A> : Glad I dropped Bell including sadly my TSI account for a Videotron business account. At least now none of my money's going to Bell, directly or indirectly and I'm not throttled or limited (yet).<br><br>If Videotron changes that, I'll keep checking for alternatives and support the companies that are willing to provide an unfiltered Internet. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456264</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:27:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456261</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1145919"><b>Candoo3</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  mr_hexen <A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>so let me get this straight... CRTC says Online Video content leads to network congestion, which allows Bell to throttle P2P. Then Bell opens an UNTHROTTLED online video store. COME ON.<br>Keep diggin' CRTC, keep diggin'<br> </div>You were reading my thoughts exactly. And they say, there is NO discrimination.  :huh: ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456261</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:27:16 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456260</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/917504"><b>Quake110</b></A> : Now that the CRTC gave the green light for Bell's throttling, watch Telus do the same for third parties ISPs in the west...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456260</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:27:10 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456255</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1572954"><b>ep80</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  BlueX <A HREF="/useremail/u/1153243"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  alphaz18 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>   :</small><br><br>the next step is to boycott anything bell. i dont see any other alternative. because anything owned by big companies is almost ALWAYS bad for consumers. <br> </div>Absolutely, I have already taken a personal fight to boycott anything "Bell", as I was expecting this decision from the CRTC:<br><br>1) I have ported my cell phone number away from Bell Mobility<br>2) I have closed my Bell TV account and moved to cable<br>3) I have ported my home phone number to cable (not to Teksavvy, as my understand is that Bell is still getting a fairly good portion of the reselling through Teksavvy).<br><br>Unfortunately, Bell will still get a little  bit of money through my DSL connection with Teksavvy, but at least Teksavvy gets a little as well.<br><br>I encourage everyone to do the same.<br> </div>I am completing this also. <br><br>Teksavvy dry-loop get installed today and I move my phone to cable at the end of november. I wish Bell calls me and try to get me back, they will know why they won't get any money from me as long as I will live.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456255</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:26:19 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456252</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : Speaking of which, anyone got the email address for Konrad von Finckenstein? I want to let him know how much this decision is going to affect us.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456252</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:26:04 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456249</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/636362"><b>Calisto</b></A> : One can only hope. I'm all for change. Someone once told me that "change is good". Let's hope for some good in the near future.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456249</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:25:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456245</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : CRTC is letting Bell 'own' Canada's internet is what this means.<br><br>The big telecoms were getting clobbered on mobile services and VOIP & internet that was killing their long distance cash cow.<br><br>CRTC needs a good housecleaning of all Bell flunkies who represent even a hint of conflict of interest.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456245</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:24:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456244</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1109355"><b>DabberDan</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  BlueX <A HREF="/useremail/u/1153243"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  alphaz18 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>the next step is to boycott anything bell. i dont see any other alternative. because anything owned by big companies is almost ALWAYS bad for consumers. <br> </div>Absolutely, I have already taken a personal fight to boycott anything "Bell", as I was expecting this decision from the CRTC:<br><br>1) I have ported my cell phone number away from Bell Mobility<br>2) I have closed my Bell TV account and moved to cable<br>3) I have ported my home phone number to cable<br><br>Unfortunately, Bell will still get a little  bit of money through my DSL connection with Teksavvy, but at least Teksavvy gets a little as well.<br><br>I encourage everyone to do the same.<br> </div>I did the exact same thing. I also specified the CRTC/CAIP thing when I did cancel.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456244</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:24:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456243</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1532716"><b>derekm</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Robrr <A HREF="/useremail/u/1545973"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I am sure that Rocky, Paul, Tom, and anyone else related to CAIP are already on the phone with the lawyers figuring out what to do next.</div>RCMP]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456243</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:24:15 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456240</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : cuases are a moot point. bell has more money in lawyers than the caip combined is even worth, only way is revolting.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456240</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:24:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456236</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1145919"><b>Candoo3</b></A> : Did we really expect anything less of our great Canadian CRTC ? There is no reason why they had to drag this out the way they did, when it's obvious they had made their decision some time ago. Same shit, different day.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456236</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:23:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456229</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1545973"><b>Robrr</b></A> : Why don't we all just take a couple minutes and breath here. I am sure that Rocky, Paul, Tom, and anyone else related to CAIP are already on the phone with the lawyers figuring out what to do next.<br><br>Lets wait for them to come back to us here and tell us what the next step is and then we can all focus our anger to helping that cause.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456229</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:22:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456226</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1153243"><b>BlueX</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  alphaz18 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>the next step is to boycott anything bell. i dont see any other alternative. because anything owned by big companies is almost ALWAYS bad for consumers. <br> </div>Absolutely, I have already taken a personal fight to boycott anything "Bell", as I was expecting this decision from the CRTC:<br><br>1) I have ported my cell phone number away from Bell Mobility<br>2) I have closed my Bell TV account and moved to cable<br>3) I have ported my home phone number to cable (not to Teksavvy, as my understand is that Bell is still getting a fairly good portion of the reselling through Teksavvy).<br><br>Unfortunately, Bell will still get a little  bit of money through my DSL connection with Teksavvy, but at least Teksavvy gets a little as well.<br><br>I encourage everyone to do the same.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456226</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:22:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456223</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/843138"><b>Matt</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Calisto <A HREF="/useremail/u/636362"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Perhaps our brothers and sisters South of the border can e-mail a few copies of the FCC's decision against Comcast to the CRTC!<br> </div>I am hopeful that the incoming Obama Administration will radically change the telecommunications landscape ... similar to what the US Telecommunications Act of 1996 should have done before the dot com bust and the current Administration's anti-consumer policies knocked us back 20 years.<br><br>If the landscape changes radically down here (and for the better), one would hope it would influence your government as well. Sort of a let them take all the risk, then a  "See, it worked for the Americans, it can work for us too."]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456223</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:21:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456222</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  alphaz18 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>the next step is to boycott anything bell. i dont see any other alternative. because anything owned by big companies is almost ALWAYS bad for consumers. <br> </div>The next step to launch a class action law suit against Bell.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456222</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:21:15 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456220</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : yep jethro86, that pretty much sums it up.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456220</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:20:38 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456214</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1210050"><b>Jethro86</b></A> : Fuck!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456214</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:20:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456210</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : the next step is to boycott anything bell. i dont see any other alternative. because anything owned by big companies is almost ALWAYS bad for consumers. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456210</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:19:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456209</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><b>mr_hexen</b></A> : <i>The growing popularity of certain Internet applications, such as online video, can lead to network congestion. To deal with this congestion, some Internet service providers (ISPs) are managing the flow of traffic on their networks or adopting new business models.</i><br><br>WOW.<br><br>so let me get this straight... CRTC says Online Video content leads to network congestion, which allows Bell to throttle P2P. Then Bell opens an UNTHROTTLED online video store. COME ON.<br><br>Keep diggin' CRTC, keep diggin']]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456209</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:19:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456205</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1438030"><b>Crash02</b></A> : What's the next step?  Anyone know how to file a class action lawsuit?  I sure am not willing to give up.  This is total BS]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456205</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:18:24 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456203</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/636362"><b>Calisto</b></A> : Perhaps our brothers and sisters South of the border can e-mail a few copies of the FCC's decision against Comcast to the CRTC!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456203</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:18:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456197</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : ya but July 09? another 7 months? they can drag this on for centuries if they wanted to.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456197</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:17:19 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456191</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/843138"><b>Matt</b></A> : You have the sympathies of your brothers and sisters to the south. I was really rooting for the CAIP and especially TekSavvy.<br><br>Hopefully the separate proceeding to consider wholesale and retail issues will be fruitful. Don't give up the fight guys, you have a lot of people cheering you on.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456191</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:16:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456188</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : i agree. torching the crtc office should be in order. or at least i hope someone kills the takeover deal for bell.. and i'll poitn as laugh as bell crumbles]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456188</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:15:53 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456186</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : The CRTC sides with Bell everytime.  Unbelievable!  So much for the Internet being a free and open source.  The CRTC is just delaying the process as long as possible to give Bell  more power and contol over wholesalers.  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456186</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:15:26 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456183</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1588482"><b>45578933</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  oxymoron69 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1107049"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Hey Rocky, <br>Now's about time for one of your famous inspirational forum speeches where you calm us down, and tell us you'll make everything okay.... well, once you're done smashing things, I could see how this might make you angrier than most :-)<br><br>But when you're ready, we could really use some direction so we know what to plan for or who you want your minions (us) to go yell at.<br> </div>Screw calming people down.  Angry is what we need.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456183</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:14:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456175</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1522014"><b>Radar73</b></A> : Bell changes the terms of a regulated tariff without permission from the CRTC and without notifying the subscribers of GAS and the CRTC says that it's just fine with that.   What a joke.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456175</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:13:04 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456174</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1107049"><b>oxymoron69</b></A> : Hey Rocky, <br>Now's about time for one of your famous inspirational forum speeches where you yell things at us to angry up the blood, and tell us you'll make everything okay.... well, once you're done smashing things, I could see how this might make you angrier than most :-)<br><br>But when you're ready, we could really use some direction so we know what to plan for or who you want your minions (us) to go yell at.<br><br>**edit, one guy says the situation calls for rage and anger**]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456174</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:13:03 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456173</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1524803"><b>ultracat</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Quake110 <A HREF="/useremail/u/917504"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>We need an Obama in this country. It's no longer a free and just society regarding protecting the customers and the internet from big corporations.<br><br>The ISPs need a way to circumemvent the throttling to all users. <br> </div>Well you've hit the nail on the head there.  I often trash-talk Americans, but at least this year they voted out the Bush regime and voted in Obama for some change.  At pretty much the same time, we decided to vote our Bush back into office (of course we didn't have a Canadian Obama to choose, and that was more than half the problem).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456173</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:13:00 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456168</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : The big thing I'm concerned about is this is going to start a bad precedent. Bell will start thinking they can start throttling or "managing" the wholesale network. <br><br>In terms of illegal actions, I'll continue to download overseas content over the crap that the CRTC makes us fund. If they're not playing by the rules, why should we.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456168</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:12:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456167</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : only way is to build out an open network infrastructure not "owned" by a single big corporation.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456167</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:11:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456160</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/917504"><b>Quake110</b></A> : We need an Obama in this country. It's no longer a free and just society regarding protecting the customers and the internet from big corporations.<br><br>The ISPs need a way to circumvent the throttling to all users. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456160</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:11:01 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456154</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : This is indeed a sad day.  It truly shows how deep Bell Canada is in the CRTC's back-pocket.  And it also shows up how useless the CRTC truly is, as a regulatory body, in the modern world.  <br><br>They need people in charge who actually understand what is happening.  This is just one step further away, in the WRONG direction, from net-neutrality.  If the CRTC wanted Bell to "open up its technology" for others, then those others should be allowed to do as they see fit.<br><br>I know Rocky commented that if it was a "worst-case scenario"-type ruling today that there were other avenues to explore but it still doesn't mean we're in a good spot what-so-ever.<br><br>The best thing I heard, unrelated, was Bell Canada's CSR telling me that ALL ISP's will have a 60GB cap in the new year!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456154</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:09:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456153</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1109355"><b>DabberDan</b></A> : And the CRTC is slow to react as well... July 09 for public hearings, that means we're still under this regime for a few more years. Come on!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456153</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:09:48 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456149</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by Astonished :</small><br><br>!@$#$!#!!$#2%$$!!!<br><br>Proof positive that the CRTC is corrupt and in Bell's pocket!<br><br>The issue wasn't discriminatory throttling but violation of GAS tarifs which they clearly broke.<br><br>What can we do when the game is rigged?<br><br>$%#^#^#^##@$#$!!!<br> </div>when the game is rigged, Cheat. only way.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456149</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:09:10 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456142</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : !@$#$!#!!$#2%$$!!!<br><br>Proof positive that the CRTC is corrupt and in Bell's pocket!<br><br>The issue wasn't discriminatory throttling but violation of GAS tarifs which they clearly broke.<br><br>What can we do when the game is rigged?<br><br>$%#^#^#^##@$#$!!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456142</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:08:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456139</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1524803"><b>ultracat</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  alphaz18 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>how can we show our discontent with this decision to the crtc in an uncivilized illegal manner?<br> </div>By giving up?  That's what I feel like doing at this point.  Final conclusion:  the Internet is fucked in this country.  You can either spend the time and money to circumvent it yourself or move but don't expect the old boys club to release their grip on our money.  <br><br>Keep you eyes on the "MLPPP is now throttled" thread.  I'm sure that won't last too much longer now.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456139</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:07:45 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456136</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1109355"><b>DabberDan</b></A> : They even state network congestion where Bell wasn't even able to prove it. Which proves either incompetency or they've been bought.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456136</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:07:24 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456134</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/216163"><b>kingb71</b></A> : Where do I sign up for the class action lawsuit?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456134</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:06:32 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456132</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1572954"><b>ep80</b></A> : This is disgusting! No doubt that the CRTC is runned by money from big companies...<br><br>Sad day for Canada is today]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456132</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:06:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456127</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1000152"><b>zaptor99</b></A> : sad sad day]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456127</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:05:48 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456125</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : how can we show our discontent with this decision to the crtc in an uncivilized illegal manner?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456125</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:05:32 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456123</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1474983"><b>mr_hexen</b></A> : big surprise.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456123</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:05:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456115</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/248514"><b>mlerner</b></A> : F### Well I had too much hope that the CRTC has actually changed. I'm too pissed off right now to even write a good reply..]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456115</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:04:21 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456110</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1153739"><b>kewlkeed</b></A> : What a crock of shit!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456110</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:03:50 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456109</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1505364"><b>chromiumdr</b></A> : I am truly disgusted.<br>*takes up pitchfork and lights torch*]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456109</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:03:44 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456108</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1107049"><b>oxymoron69</b></A> : Ahhhhh fuck them, fuck them up their stupid asses!<br>GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!<br><br>Wow, it really shows who our government has at heart...<br>Dollar, Dollar bills y'all!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456108</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:03:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456107</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : I guessed right yeah i knew it.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456107</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:03:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456100</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1524803"><b>ultracat</b></A> : Wow]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456100</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:02:37 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456097</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/807618"><b>fourboxers</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2008/r081120.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES&middot;&middot;&middot;1120.htm</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456097</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:02:06 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456095</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/919724"><b>twizlar</b></A> : November 20, 2008<br>CRTC denies CAIP application, but will examine<br>Internet traffic management practices<br><br>OTTAWA-GATINEAU &#151; The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) today announced that it has denied the Canadian Association of Internet Providers&#146; (CAIP) request that Bell Canada cease the traffic-shaping practices it has adopted for its wholesale Gateway Access Service. However, in the future, Bell Canada will be required to notify its wholesale customers at least 30 days in advance of making changes that impact on the performance of its Gateway Access Service.<br><br>&#147;Based on the evidence before us, we found that the measures employed by Bell Canada to manage its network were not discriminatory. Bell Canada applied the same traffic-shaping practices to wholesale customers as it did to its own retail customers,&#148; said Konrad von Finckenstein, Q.C., Chairman of the CRTC.<br><br>&#147;CAIP&#146;s application asked us to only consider the specific issue of wholesale traffic shaping within a specific context. The broader issue of Internet traffic management raises a number of questions that affect both end-users and service providers,&#148; added Mr. von Finckenstein. &#147;We have decided to hold a separate proceeding to consider both wholesale and retail issues. Its main purpose will be to address the extent to which Internet service providers can manage the traffic on their networks in accordance with the Telecommunications Act.&#148; <br><br>The growing popularity of certain Internet applications, such as online video, can lead to network congestion. To deal with this congestion, some Internet service providers (ISPs) are managing the flow of traffic on their networks or adopting new business models. In the case of the CAIP application, the<br>Commission&#146;s assessment of traffic shaping was limited to Bell Canada&#146;s practice of slowing down the transfer rates of peer-to-peer traffic at certain times of the day.<br>Public proceeding<br><br>The Commission has launched a proceeding to examine the current and potential traffic management practices of ISPs operating in Canada. This proceeding will include a public hearing starting on July 6, 2009, in Gatineau, Que. The CRTC has invited comments on a number of specific questions. Some of these questions are related to:<br><br>    * changes in bandwidth consumption that may lead to network congestion<br>    * Internet traffic management practices based on technical solutions or business models that are currently available or may be developed in the future, and<br>    * the impact of such practices on end-users.<br><br>In addition, the Commission will try to establish the criteria to be used in the event that specific traffic management practices need to be authorized.<br><br>Interested parties may submit their comments by February 16, 2009. They may do so by filling out the online form, by writing to the Secretary General, CRTC, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0N2, or by fax, at 819-994-0218. The Commission also plans to hold an online consultation to allow the public the opportunity to discuss the issues and questions related to the Internet traffic management practices of ISPs.<br>The CRTC<br><br>The CRTC is an independent public authority that regulates and supervises broadcasting and telecommunications in Canada.<br><br>Telecom Public Notice CRTC 2008-19 [.pdf]<br>Telecom Decision CRTC 2008-108 [.pdf]<br><br>- 30 -<br><br>Media Relations:<br>   MediaRelations, Tel: 819-997-9403, Fax: 819-997-4245<br><br>General Inquiries:<br>   Tel: 819-997-0313, TDD: 819-994-0423, Fax: 819-994-0218<br>   Toll-free # 1-877-249-CRTC (2782)<br>   TDD - Toll-free # 1-877-909-CRTC (2782)<br>   On-line services<br><br>These documents are available in alternative format upon request. <br><br>Date Modified: 2008-11-20 <br><small>--<br><A HREF="http://www.broadlinenetworks.com">Broadline Networks Inc.</a></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456095</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:01:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456093</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1402224"><b>bitchtorn</b></A> : damn... we got screwed!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456093</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:01:55 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456090</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><b>andyb</b></A> : It's denied to caip<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2008/r081120.htm" >www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES&middot;&middot;&middot;1120.htm</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456090</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:01:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456091</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1588482"><b>45578933</b></A> : Telecom decision:<br>2008-108 The Canadian Association of Internet Providers' application regarding Bell Canada's traffic shaping of its wholesale Gateway Access Service<br>Reference: 8622-C51-200805153<br><br>LINK DOES NOT WORK YET.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456091</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:01:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456087</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/946972"><b>bbuchanan</b></A> : It *should* first appear on the CRTC's web site]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456087</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:00:48 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456086</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1293592"><b>cbp</b></A> : Cannot be 9AM. Govt. jobs start at 9AM. They'll need at least a day to post results up. Maybe more.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456086</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:00:42 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456076</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/818722"><b>andyb</b></A> : Crtc site says release at 9am]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456076</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:59:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456069</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1524803"><b>ultracat</b></A> : Does anyone know where the story will break?  Here, the CBC website, P2PNet?  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456069</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:59:05 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456066</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1165830"><b>alphaz18</b></A> : 2 min....]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456066</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:58:52 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456051</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1588482"><b>45578933</b></A> : So is this going to be the official news thread?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456051</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:56:30 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456035</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/835558"><b>matradley</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  R0CKY <A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Guspaz <A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>What I fear is that the changes will be so slow and subtle that people won't notice.<br><br>You know, like the boiling frog analogy; throw a frog into boiling water and it jumps out, throw a frog into cold water and heat it slowly and it dies from the heat because it doesn't notice the slow increase.<br> </div>True, but there are some around the industry who are going to make sure this front and centre as fast and as long as possible! ;)<br> </div>They might even make it their new platform! I can see it now, "Bell, now fastER" than last week. XD]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456035</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:52:58 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456017</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1107049"><b>oxymoron69</b></A> : Oh wow, almost a month late and here we are, 10 minutes away..... ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21456017</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:50:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455934</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1000152"><b>zaptor99</b></A> : the full article from CBC.  30 mins to go :)<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/11/19/tech-crtc.html" >www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008&middot;&middot;&middot;rtc.html</A><br><br>Internet watchers are on the edge of their seats as the CRTC is set to make a landmark ruling Thursday on Bell Canada Inc.'s throttling of speeds.<br><br>The regulator will hand down its decision at 9 a.m. ET after twice delaying the ruling. The decision will determine whether Bell Canada has violated the Telecommunications Act by slowing down the internet access it sells to wholesale customers.<br><br>Those customers, a group of more than 50 small companies represented by the Canadian Association of Internet Providers, lodged a complaint with the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission about the practice in April.<br><br>Bell began throttling its own Sympatico retail customers in October 2007, and extended the practice in March to CAIP members, which rent portions of Bell's network to provide internet service to their own customers. The CRTC rejected CAIP's call for an immediate cease-and-desist order but launched a public investigation into Bell's actions.<br><br>The throttling affects Bell and CAIP customers who use peer-to-peer file-sharing software such as BitTorrent. Bell has said the throttling is necessary because a small percentage of subscribers are using such services to clog up its network. CAIP countered by saying Bell has failed to prove there is congestion on its network, and that the company is throttling peer-to-peer applications because they compete with services it offers, such as an online video store.<br><br>While BitTorrent has become synonymous with illegal file-sharing, the application is also increasingly being used for legitimate purposes such as the legal distribution of music and video, such as the CBC show Canada's Next Great Prime Minister, as well as educational tools. Peer-to-peer technology is also behind internet calling services such as Skype, which compete with Bell's core phone business.<br><br>A ruling against Bell would likely allow CAIP members to sell unthrottled internet services, thus giving them a competitive advantage over the company and others that slow peer-to-peer applications, such as Rogers Communications Inc. and Shaw Communications Inc.<br>Bigger throttling probe likely<br><br>A decision against CAIP may not necessarily close the door on the throttling issue, however. CRTC chairman Konrad von Finckenstein this summer said a decision on the Bell-CAIP case will be limited to whether the company has violated its wholesale agreements with the smaller providers. A more detailed CRTC probe into whether throttling should be allowed in a general sense will likely follow, he said.<br><br>CAIP members on Wednesday were hoping for the best but girding for the worst.<br><br>"We're bracing for a worst-case scenario, as Bell has a lot to lose if this doesn't go their way," said Rocky Gaudrault, chief executive of TekSavvy, a CAIP member. "I would suspect, win or lose, something should be done, going forward, to consider Bell's conflict of interest in dealing as a carrier and a retail internet provider. There are some pretty major issues that need attention going forward, so regardless of the upcoming ruling, this might set things in motion to finally force change."<br><br>A Bell spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.<br><br>The throttling issue has angered net neutrality advocates, who maintain the internet should be kept free from discriminatory practices by service providers. The CRTC's probe drew submissions from more than 1,000 individuals, as well as large technology companies such as Skype and Google Inc., which accused Bell of acting as an internet "gatekeeper."<br><br>About 300 protestors held a rally on Parliament Hill in May to urge government legislation to protect net neutrality principles. Jim Prentice, who was industry minister at the time, said the government was opposed to regulating the internet.<br><br>Regulators in the United States have taken decisive action against throttling by service providers. The Federal Communications Commission in August ordered Comcast Corp., the country's largest cable company, to cease its throttling of peer-to-peer applications.<br><br>"This practice is not 'minimally intrusive' but invasive and outright discriminatory," the FCC said in its ruling. "Consumers are entitled to run applications and use services of their choice."<br><br>In reaction, Comcast said it would introduce a new application-neutral system by the end of the year that will throttle only heavy users.<br><br>The United States is also poised to clamp down further on interference by internet service providers under president-elect Barack Obama, a supporter of net neutrality. Obama last week appointed two longtime net neutrality advocates, University of Michigan law professor Susan Crawford and former FCC staffer Kevin Werbach, to conduct a review of the regulator.<br><br>"The momentum in the U.S. is very, very strong. The FCC has been showing a strong inclination to move in this direction even without a change in administration," said University of Ottawa internet law professor Michael Geist. "Clearly we're a laggard on this issue. It's nothing new on telecom issues and it's going to become increasingly evident."]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455934</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:25:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455885</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  R0CKY <A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  Guspaz <A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br></div>True, but there are some around the industry who are going to make sure this front and centre as fast and as long as possible! ;)<br> </div>Lest we forget... :) ;)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455885</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:07:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455881</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Guspaz <A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>What I fear is that the changes will be so slow and subtle that people won't notice.<br><br>You know, like the boiling frog analogy; throw a frog into boiling water and it jumps out, throw a frog into cold water and heat it slowly and it dies from the heat because it doesn't notice the slow increase.<br> </div>True, but there are some around the industry who are going to make sure this front and centre as fast and as long as possible! ;)<br><small>--<br>TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br><br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455881</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:05:32 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455877</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : What I fear is that the changes will be so slow and subtle that people won't notice.<br><br>You know, like the boiling frog analogy; throw a frog into boiling water and it jumps out, throw a frog into cold water and heat it slowly and it dies from the heat because it doesn't notice the slow increase.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455877</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:04:14 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455866</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : What Bell and Rogers is attempting to do is keep their subscriber's within the realms of <i>their</i> domain, hence, being the <i>Gate Keeper</i>.  Once inside, the Gate will be securely locked and entrance beyond the Gate denied.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455866</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:58:41 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455851</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Guspaz <A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>What he means isn't that the issue isn't big, only that it doesn't matter to the majority of Canadians. So what he's saying is that in the public conscience, the issue is small. They either don't know about it (or what net neutrality is), or don't think it's important compared to other concerns like healthcare or the economy.<br><br>Some people know about it, but just don't realize how much it will impact things.<br> </div>Yup... I know that... Which is why I said, wait and see.  This issue will blow up shortly when people start seeing service issues going to facebook/google/youtube/etc, because of Bell/Rogers/etc, or when they can't make a trade for sports/gambling/stocks due to throttling...  They'll start to clue in in a hurry!<br><br>There's a learning curve that will be required, no doubt, but when it starts watch out!<br><small>--<br>TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br><br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455851</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:52:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455838</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/510249"><b>Guspaz</b></A> : What he means isn't that the issue isn't big, only that it doesn't matter to the majority of Canadians. So what he's saying is that in the public conscience, the issue is small. They either don't know about it (or what net neutrality is), or don't think it's important compared to other concerns like healthcare or the economy.<br><br>Some people know about it, but just don't realize how much it will impact things.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455838</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:46:55 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455817</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1206349"><b>R0CKY</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  TOPDAWG <A HREF="/useremail/u/1195536"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Man get real your normal person on the street could give two damns about this stuff. The CRTC has no reason to delay anything cause of how someone may react.<br><br>Don't fool yourself into thinking this is some big issue people in Canada care about. I mean what is going to happen if they rule on bells side? I don't think the CRTC going to be scared cause people will be insulting them on the net.<br> </div>Thinking you should brace yourself for a controlled internet soon then.... Bell/Rogers has everything to gain by having people remain ignorant of what is happening.<br><br>If you thinking this is a small issue... all I can tell you is wait and see!<br><br>Rocky<br><small>--<br>TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.<br><br>Authorized TSI employee ( &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/teksavvy">TekSavvy FAQ</A> &raquo;<A HREF="/faq/14672#14672">Official support in the forum</A> )<br></small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455817</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:35:35 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455801</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/835558"><b>matradley</b></A> : Not to be pessimistic, I think that we should prepare for the worst outcome. It seems that the CRTC seems to love to support the corporation over the people they serve.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455801</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:30:18 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455755</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1582547"><b>Sempronius</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  TOPDAWG <A HREF="/useremail/u/1195536"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br> What is going to happen if they rule on bells side?<br></div>In that case, collectively, we launch a class action law suit against Bell.<br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  TOPDAWG <A HREF="/useremail/u/1195536"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Main reason I want bell to lose is so I can laugh at all the people who been saying crazy crap like the CRTC is being paid off it's all Harper's doing and other such goofy crap.<br> </div>It's this kind of attitude that shows how much you do not know of what has been happening over the past 8 months.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455755</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:04:41 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455545</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1161340"><b>xdrag</b></A> : For one thing, bell is still throttling me to 50kb/s. I doubt anything good will turn up tmr.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455545</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:06:39 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455441</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1195536"><b>TOPDAWG</b></A> : Man get real your normal person on the street could give two damns about this stuff. The CRTC has no reason to delay anything cause of how someone may react.<br><br>Don't fool yourself into thinking this is some big issue people in Canada care about. I mean what is going to happen if they rule on bells side? I don't think the CRTC going to be scared cause people will be insulting them on the net.<br><br>Mean reason I want bell to lose is so I can laugh at all the people who been saying crazy crap like the CRTC is being paid off it's all Harper's doing and other such goofy crap.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21455441</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:49:16 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454719</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1427659"><b>jfmezei</b></A> : There was no question that the CRTC would delay revealing its decision when t became obvious an alection was to be called and await for the new government to get established.<br><br>I have to wonder if the CRTC waited for parliament to reconvene. Throne speech today. CRTC gets to publish its decision the next day.<br><br>I would not be susprised if Harper had some big bombshell tomorrow which would crystalise the media's attention around that and thus ignore the CRTC decision.<br><br>Note that Tony Clement was in Detroit today, busy with the demise of the car industry. Perhaps he'll announce some major car bailout tomorrow.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454719</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:10:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454663</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : *literary*<br>Typo]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454663</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:59:07 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454660</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : /me bows before the almighty and literaty g*d kingb71]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454660</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:58:34 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454651</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/216163"><b>kingb71</b></A> : nice! I feel....honoured!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454651</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:56:36 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454392</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/216163"><b>kingb71</b></A> : those slimy fuckers!!]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454392</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:07:07 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454110</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/0"><b>anon</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  kingb71 <A HREF="/useremail/u/216163"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>By 9am apparently, which means a decision has already been reached, <br> </div>Correction:<br><br>A decision was made WEEKS ago.<br><br>Refer to:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="/forum/r21452996-CRTC-keeps-CAIP-in-the-dark">CRTC keeps CAIP in the dark</A><br>and<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17639" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17639</A><br><br>=============================================<br>Just in case you mentioned this already and I didn't see it, sorry to re-itterate. Your post was long and my attention span is mall.  :)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21454110</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:16:19 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21453694</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/216163"><b>kingb71</b></A> : By 9am apparently, which means a decision has already been reached, I wonder if there will be a leak tonight?<br><br>Here's the full blurb:<br><br>Media Advisory: CRTC to Make Landmark Decision on Internet Freedom<br>Submitted by Steve Anderson on Wed, 11/19/2008 - 22:16.<br><br>Media Advisory: CRTC to Make Landmark Decision on Internet Freedom<br><br>Decision to define Canada&#146;s digital path<br><br>According to the CBC, after twice delaying the ruling, the CRTC will make a landmark decision on the Bell Throttling case by 9 a.m. tomorrow. The decision will determine whether Bell Canada has violated the Telecommunications Act by slowing down the Internet access it sells to wholesale customers.<br><br>Steve Anderson from SaveOurNet.ca coalition will be available for comment.<br><br>Steve said today, &#147;This decision has huge implications for Internet service competition online innovation, consumer choice and free speech. The biggest battle over the Internet is yet to come, but this ruling will signal whether the CRTC is willing to take action to put Canada on a path that supports online innovation, and online choice. Otherwise the CRTC is abdicating its responsibility to Canadian people and putting us on a path towards a more closed Internet defined by the interests of big telecom companies.&#148;<br><br>Bell began throttling its own Sympatico retail customers in October 2007, and extended the practice in March to CAIP members, which rent portions of Bell's network to provide internet service to their own customers. The CRTC rejected CAIP's call for an immediate cease-and-desist order but launched a public investigation into Bell's actions.<br><br>About SaveOurNet.ca:<br>SaveOurNet.ca is a coalition of citizens, businesses, and public interest groups fighting to protect our Internet's level playing field. We're calling on lawmakers and industry to protect openness, choice, and access for ALL Canadians &#151; and stopping lobbyists and special interests from ruining Canada's Internet.<br><br>A list of coalition members can be found here:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://saveournet.ca/members" >saveournet.ca/members</A><br><br>Background information about the issue of Net Neutrality can be found in our &#147;Fact vs Fiction&#148; report:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://saveournet.ca/sites/default/files/SON_FvF.pdf" >saveournet.ca/sites/default/file&middot;&middot;&middot;_FvF.pdf</A><br><br>Background information on the CAIP proceeding can be found in this Campaign for Democratic Media submission to the CRTC:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cippic.ca/uploads/CIPPIC_CAIPvBell_FINAL.pdf" >www.cippic.ca/uploads/CIPPIC_CAI&middot;&middot;&middot;INAL.pdf</A><br><br>Previous Press Release on this ruling:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://saveournet.ca/content/coalition-rallies-public-support-open-inter" >saveournet.ca/content/coalition-&middot;&middot;&middot;en-inter</A>...<br><br>Media reports on tomorrow&#146;s decision:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/11/19/tech-crtc.html?ref=rss:" >www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008&middot;&middot;&middot;ref=rss:</A><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17638" >www.p2pnet.net/story/17638</A><br><br>More at: &raquo;<A HREF="http://saveournet.ca" >saveournet.ca</A><br><br>Contact:<br>Steve Anderson<br>SaveOurNet.ca<br>Coordinator<br>604-837-5730<br>steve@democraticmedia.ca]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21453694</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:00:41 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>CRTC ruling coming Thursday Nov 20</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21453525</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1000152"><b>zaptor99</b></A> : &raquo;<A HREF="http://saveournet.ca/content/media-advisory-crtc-make-landmark-decision-internet-freedom" >saveournet.ca/content/media-advi&middot;&middot;&middot;-freedom</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21453525</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:28:29 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

</channel>
</rss>
