Zak_D_H
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-04
Salt Lake City, UT
 ·Qwest.net
2 edits | FTTN Causes Issues for Existing ADSL customers?
Hello. I am working with a customer that has Qwest DSL with an independent internet provider. Customer has been experiencing slow speeds for a few weeks and finally decided to call his Internet provider(Not dslextreme). He is paying for 1500/864 plan. After reviewing wiring and filters we logged into the modem (Actiontec Gt701-WG Firmware version 3.x) The modem was sync'd at about 480 Down and 680 up and was showing a lot of Far end FEC errors as well as a few near end errors and some CRC errors.
When customer called qwest they had him do some additional troubleshooting including isolating the line and they told him the modem sync'd at 1.5mb but his throughput on a speed-test was only 400kbps down (I assume do to the FEC errors causing packet loss)
They scheduled a dispatch for the next day. 3 hours later the customer gets a call from the "qwest tech" that is going to be coming out saying that he can come later in the afternoon but he already know's what the problem is. He says that the newly installed Fiber to the node is causing AC power levels that interfere with his DSL and that the ONLY way to solve it is to cancel his Internet provider and switch to qwests FTTN service.
The customer let me know and called his ISP back and they called qwest back and the dispatch is still on but the issue is still currently unresolved.
Is this a known issue in areas where FTTN has been installed? Is there a known work-around? When we talk to qwest about resolving the issue what can we say to get them to look at the DSL issue instead of just trying to up-sale FTTN and steal the customer from his independent ISP?
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Zak
Tech Support
DSLExtreme
EDIT: I cannot spell today! |
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roozy
join:2004-09-30
Casper, WY | AC power influence can definitely interfere with ADSL performance in the manner you describe. Obviously from 400+ miles away I can't give an answer any more definite than that. |
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djweis
join:2006-04-02
West Des Moines, IA | reply to Zak_D_H
We've seen this in some areas where the customer is a few miles from the CO and the FTTN DSLAM is put in much closer to the house. We have it very sporadically but both on our DSLAM's and Qwest DSLAM's. |
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Zak_D_H
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-04
Salt Lake City, UT | Thank you for confirmation of the issue. So I take it there is no known work-around for the problem? |
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djweis
join:2006-04-02
West Des Moines, IA | For the non-tariffed DSL product, they offered you their proposed solution  I'm still trying to determine if we have any relief on the loops we buy as a CLEC. |
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woodward
XMission Broadband
VIP
join:2000-12-28
Salt Lake City, UT | reply to Zak_D_H
We are hemorrhaging DSL subscribers in the Salt Lake Valley over this interference, and also over the fact that Qwest agents are instructed to use any repair call as an upsale for FTTN. |
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Zak_D_H
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-04
Salt Lake City, UT | I smell a lawsuit? |
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roozy
join:2004-09-30
Casper, WY | reply to Zak_D_H
We don't have any FTTN DSLAM's yet, so I'm not sure on this one. However, I'm having a difficult time believing that a properly installed FTTN DSLAM would be causing power influence levels to be abnormally high. |
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klink05
@qwest.net | reply to Zak_D_H
You should read this,
www.qwest.com/wholesale/downloads/2008/081024/DNLD_Svc_Intrf |
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icn301
@iauq.com |  this page comes up as unavailable, can you please verify the address |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | I'd be interested in a working link as well. Can anyone at Qwest confirm these problems? Any customers? |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to Zak_D_H
I've not heard of issues with ADSL2+ FTTN and regular ADSL interfering with each other; I have heard of such issues involving VDSL. I have to wonder if the tech in question didn't hear of the issues with VDSL and assumed they carried over to ADSL2+.
Both ADSL2+ and ADSL are offered out of the same FTTN DSLAMs; if this was a problem it would likely be fairly widespread and well known by now. However, I can't say without a doubt that there doesn't exist some circumstance that it happens; if so it's not something I'm aware of. |
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j0tt0
@livewirenet.com
| reply to Zak_D_H
I can confirm that this is a huge issue in the Denver area. If there is a FTTN circuit in the same count as a ADSL circuit, it will either kill the ADSL circuit completely, or destroy the speeds.
Qwest techs are being told to cut any problem circuits to FTTN. If you are a CLEC, you have no choice but to cut the circuit, and use Qwest as an ISP. |
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j0tt0
@livewirenet.com
| reply to dynodb
said by dynodb  :if this was a problem it would likely be fairly widespread and well known by now. Ask any DSL tech in the Denver area. This is VERY widespread, and VERY well known. |
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djweis
join:2006-04-02
West Des Moines, IA
| reply to Karl Bode
Couple places to look:
»www.qwest.com/wholesale/download···3_08.doc
referenced from
»www.qwest.com/wholesale/pcat/com···dia.html
It may or not make a difference but this is mentioned specifically on the wholesale side. Retail customers may not have the same conditions and remedies. |
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roozy
join:2004-09-30
Casper, WY
| reply to j0tt0
said by j0tt0 :
Qwest techs are being told to cut any problem circuits to FTTN. If you are a CLEC, you have no choice but to cut the circuit, and use Qwest as an ISP.
Good, the CLECs should be building their own network like they were supposed to. Qwest shouldn't be required to provide the facilities for someone else to make money. |
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djweis
join:2006-04-02
West Des Moines, IA | I must have missed the checkbox in my interconnection agreement that gives me free circuits, I certainly pay quite a bit for them every month now.
Do you want a cut of any business conducted over a telephone line now? |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to djweis
Thanks- I don't deal with individual line issues; maybe that's why I hadn't heard of it. I'm surprised that we haven't been made more aware of it.
Even so, it sounds like this only happens in a specific circumstance- FTTN services on the same cable count as a more distant CO-based connection. |
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woodward
XMission Broadband
VIP
join:2000-12-28
Salt Lake City, UT
| It is a specific scenario problem but is confused by the institutionalized use of troubleshooting as a sales push to FTTN.
In other words, Qwest techs that are presented with a troubleshooting issue on a line that now qualifies for ADSL2+ are encouraged to blame the issue on that crosstalk and propose an migration to the new Qwest-only service as solution.
That's not my imagination, our Qwest representative, who comes to major account operations from the DSL division, has told us this is the new procedure. And we see it every single day.
It can be difficult to determine what is actually a byproduct of spectral interference and what is just marketing. We've been told by engineers that the true volume of legitimately effected lines is minimal, but that doesn't change the fact that we are losing users by the dozens because of it. |
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RMKyote
join:2000-12-21
Beverly Hills, CA
·Qwest.net
 ·ViaTalk
1 edit | reply to Zak_D_H
A couple of weeks ago I had a Tech at my Denver house for the day on Sunday to try to find a serious speed problem. One of the first things he said that he checked for any fiber activity because it would cause the problems that I was having and you are describing. But since we have no fiber at the CO and he says probably won't for a couple of years that was not the problem this time.
So yes it is a known problem, in Denver at least. And the techs are aware and looking for it as interference with regular DSL service operation.
BUT, I am just having bad service and no one seems to be able to find the problem. I'm 3500' from the CO and they can't give me the 7MBps that I am paying for. That makes me ask if they can't do 7MBps at 3500', then something is seriously wrong. Which a couple of techs have also said.
Later that evening . . .
While looking around in here I found a thread announcing a new firmware for the M1000. And funny enough, it was available at the beginning of the month before I spoke with several techs and none asked about the FW version that I was running.
Needless to say, in the thread they were discussing the same problems that I am having. So I grabbed the update that I was able to do from my Mac and not have to use the PC, which sometimes negates the warranty of the update. And it installed easier than I have off the PC in the past and now I see and feel a real difference. So for the moment and hopefully longer, I usually have to call monthly and have them kick something . . . things will work better now. |
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